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Post by mmoblitz on Nov 1, 2018 12:03:06 GMT
Some people can't or don't want to see the forest through the trees.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 18:53:04 GMT
Some people can't or don't want to see the forest through the trees. Well, the whole idea of 'this can only mean bad stuff for SP games. They'll force us to play with friends or something' does appear to be a type of singular tree that seems to block some people's view of the wider forest...
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 1, 2018 20:23:16 GMT
Well, internet connections that you think might cut out are the crap ones, aren't they? I worry about my connection going do.wn about as much as I worry about a power failure. Never figured you for the "gid gud" type. Didn't mean to be. But at some point it's not rational for a company to worry about people who won't or can't keep up with the current standards. It's obviously a different kind of problem to get better internet than to upgrade a console or a vidcard. But it isn't EA's problem, once few enough of the target market suffer from it. How many of us have connections that we have to think about?
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Post by Iakus on Nov 1, 2018 20:49:32 GMT
Never figured you for the "gid gud" type. Didn't mean to be. But at some point it's not rational for a company to worry about people who won't or can't keep up with the current standards. It's obviously a different kind of problem to get better internet than to upgrade a console or a vidcard. But it isn't EA's problem, once few enough of the target market suffer from it. How many of us have connections that we have to think about? More than you might think.
Besides which, there is no reason why a person should be required to be constantly online in order to play a game by themselves.
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Post by river82 on Nov 1, 2018 20:51:37 GMT
Some people can't or don't want to see the forest through the trees. Well, the whole idea of 'this can only mean bad stuff for SP games. They'll force us to play with friends or something' does appear to be a type of singular tree that seems to block some people's view of the wider forest... They have straight up stated it in their article - this is what we're heading towards and this is how we're planning on getting there. I don't see the problem of taking EA's word on this. EDIT: At the end of the day it's their company and they can do what they want, but as a single player gamer I'm obviously not going to impressed with their statement of - in the future we envision games as a social media. Because I don't see games as a social media, and so their philosophy is out of sync with mine. And Bioware being under EA in those circumstances makes me sad. Though not as sad as Obsidian going under Microsoft's.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 21:02:57 GMT
Well, the whole idea of 'this can only mean bad stuff for SP games. They'll force us to play with friends or something' does appear to be a type of singular tree that seems to block some people's view of the wider forest... What do you think it means? I think it means it's way more than it's suggested it is by some... as detailed in some of my previous responses, including the one on top of this thread page. This really isn't just about SP/MP gaming. I mean... just read the article. Project Atlas is created with the idea that it'll become a new gaming platform one day - one that will someday stream games into whatever device we want to play it on, but also let us interact with other players through modules already integrated with the engine, personalize our games, mod them from within Atlas and likely even create new games via cloud-based Frostbite tools. Atlas and similar projects will probably replace consoles not far away from now. Having tried Nvidia's beta for GeForce NOW I'm fairly sure that it's the direction things will be heading - not sure when it'll become a new normal, because I can't tell when we'd be ready for mass-streaming and when will it become affordable enough for most players to become a platform of choice, but clearly EA is stuffing money into this, just like other big companies do. And it really has little with MP or SP games. Oh sure, games always online will naturally mean that we will likely keep getting more and more online, multiplayer or social modules in games of different types, but the extent of which stuff, like multiplayer, will be relevant in any individual game will very likely depend on the title/developer, rather than it existing within the whole project.
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Post by river82 on Nov 1, 2018 21:06:33 GMT
They did say that they are excited about the implications Anthem has for the future of DA and ME. Speaking of implications of DA and ME, what about Jorgensen's statement that linear games aren't as popular as 5-10 years ago (when they canned Visceral). Because ME2 and ME3 were linear games, and very popular, and we were sort of wondering why they went from wonderful success with ME3, to going in a completely different direction with Andromeda. And maybe somebody from EA went "well, that sort of linear game isn't popular anymore"
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 21:09:05 GMT
Didn't mean to be. But at some point it's not rational for a company to worry about people who won't or can't keep up with the current standards. It's obviously a different kind of problem to get better internet than to upgrade a console or a vidcard. But it isn't EA's problem, once few enough of the target market suffer from it. How many of us have connections that we have to think about? More than you might think.
Besides which, there is no reason why a person should be required to be constantly online in order to play a game by themselves.
Well, there is if being online determines some modules within the game to work that may have little to no connection with social, multiplayer aspects of the game. For example, we know that Anthem's environments, enemy placements, random encounters and missions available in free roam mode will change with time thanks to the game being always online and stuff being determined either by server or dev team. I'm fairly sure that such remote control allows for way more immersive experience and emergent gameplay than, say, radiant quests in Skyrim.
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Post by river82 on Nov 1, 2018 21:15:12 GMT
More than you might think.
Besides which, there is no reason why a person should be required to be constantly online in order to play a game by themselves.
Well, there is if being online determines some modules within the game to work that may have little to no connection with social, multiplayer aspects of the game. For example, we know that Anthem's environments, enemy placements, random encounters and missions available in free roam mode will change with time thanks to the game being always online and stuff being determined either by server or dev team. I'm fairly sure that such remote control allows for way more immersive experience and emergent gameplay than, say, radiant quests in Skyrim. It's affect replayability, because on the first playthrough you'd obviously wouldn't care that encounters and missions are different from previous playthroughs. And to be honest, I'd take the radiant quests from Skyrim in a single player game. I don't need to be always online just so they can switch things up on me.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 21:25:07 GMT
Well, the whole idea of 'this can only mean bad stuff for SP games. They'll force us to play with friends or something' does appear to be a type of singular tree that seems to block some people's view of the wider forest... They have straight up stated it in their article - this is what we're heading towards and this is how we're planning on getting there. I don't see the problem of taking EA's word on this. EDIT: At the end of the day it's their company and they can do what they want, but as a single player gamer I'm obviously not going to impressed with their statement of - in the future we envision games as a social media. Because I don't see games as a social media, and so their philosophy is out of sync with mine. And Bioware being under EA in those circumstances makes me sad. Though not as sad as Obsidian going under Microsoft's. They've put emphasis on social aspects, given that one of the main pitches of this thing is that social modules and other services have been integrated into Frostbite, but it most certainly isn't all there is. And stating or implying that they envision their games as 'social media' is definitely not what happened - saying that their more immersive, evolving, living games will lead to 'deep, meaningful social interactions' hardly means that. I mean, heck - don't WE on this forum have deep, meaningful social interactions based on Bioware games we played, just based on story and lore, for example? Most what they're saying centers around Frostbite now providing tools that will potentially allow people to form communities or exchange player content from within the platform, which hardly equates with "ungh, I will have to interact with people during my game ".
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Post by river82 on Nov 1, 2018 21:32:14 GMT
They have straight up stated it in their article - this is what we're heading towards and this is how we're planning on getting there. I don't see the problem of taking EA's word on this. EDIT: At the end of the day it's their company and they can do what they want, but as a single player gamer I'm obviously not going to impressed with their statement of - in the future we envision games as a social media. Because I don't see games as a social media, and so their philosophy is out of sync with mine. And Bioware being under EA in those circumstances makes me sad. Though not as sad as Obsidian going under Microsoft's. They've put emphasis on social aspects, given that one of the main pitches of this thing is that social modules and other services have been integrated into Frostbite, but it most certainly isn't all there is. And stating or implying that they envision their games as 'social media' is definitely not what happened - saying that their more immersive, evolving, living games will lead to 'deep, meaningful social interactions' hardly means that. I mean, heck - don't WE on this forum have deep, meaningful social interactions based on Bioware games we played, just based on story and lore, for example? Most what they're saying centers around Frostbite now providing tools that will potentially allow people to form communities or exchange player content from within the platform, which hardly equates with "ungh, I will have to interact with people during my game ". Social aspects won't be all there is, but it's a key part of their vision statement. That's what they want to head towards. They want experiences that lead to "meaningful social interactions" that lead to "deep, meaningful friendships across the globe". In my book, that's games as a social media. Not "social media" like twitter, but like gaming is a medium and now it will be a social one (where as before it was a fairly anti-social one). You're focusing on the tools they're incorporating to bring things about, which obviously will have other benefits. What you should be focusing is their vision statement, which is their statement of what their future will look like. Rather than the tools they want to use to bring that future about.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 21:33:55 GMT
Well, there is if being online determines some modules within the game to work that may have little to no connection with social, multiplayer aspects of the game. For example, we know that Anthem's environments, enemy placements, random encounters and missions available in free roam mode will change with time thanks to the game being always online and stuff being determined either by server or dev team. I'm fairly sure that such remote control allows for way more immersive experience and emergent gameplay than, say, radiant quests in Skyrim. It's affect replayability, because on the first playthrough you'd obviously wouldn't care that encounters and missions are different from previous playthroughs. And to be honest, I'd take the radiant quests from Skyrim in a single player game. I don't need to be always online just so they can switch things up on me. So you'd take radiant fetch quests (because that's what mostly is there in Skyrim) rather than, say - a dramatic change in weather or environment or sudden, eventful encounters or even new quests and challenges (given that they'd likely come with the game being frequently updated)? I have a hard time believing that. Skyrim is played till these days thanks to modding community shaking things around and providing new content for the game. One could easily see that the game's greatest legacy isn't open world, but devs noticing how long the game lives thanks to it being, well, 'alive'... hence the current emphasis on live services, which Project Atlas seems to be largely built for.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 1, 2018 21:37:05 GMT
They have straight up stated it in their article - this is what we're heading towards and this is how we're planning on getting there. I don't see the problem of taking EA's word on this. EDIT: At the end of the day it's their company and they can do what they want, but as a single player gamer I'm obviously not going to impressed with their statement of - in the future we envision games as a social media. Because I don't see games as a social media, and so their philosophy is out of sync with mine. And Bioware being under EA in those circumstances makes me sad. Though not as sad as Obsidian going under Microsoft's. They've put emphasis on social aspects, given that one of the main pitches of this thing is that social modules and other services have been integrated into Frostbite, but it most certainly isn't all there is. And stating or implying that they envision their games as 'social media' is definitely not what happened - saying that their more immersive, evolving, living games will lead to 'deep, meaningful social interactions' hardly means that. I mean, heck - don't WE on this forum have deep, meaningful social interactions based on Bioware games we played, just based on story and lore, for example? Most what they're saying centers around Frostbite now providing tools that will potentially allow people to form communities or exchange player content from within the platform, which hardly equates with "ungh, I will have to interact with people during my game ". Big difference: said interactions are separate from the game itself. In other SP games, I neither need nor want any aid or interference while I'm playing. Later sure I can go online and chat or argue about the game. But while I'm playing, I want to be alone.
Putting OTHER PEOPLE in MY game actually breaks immersion. It's not deep or meaningful, it's distracting. I don't want to be dependant on other people for my fun, and I don't want other people's fun to be dependent on me.
When I want that, I do tabletop. I don't have to be always online for that either.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 21:37:13 GMT
Most what they're saying centers around Frostbite now providing tools that will potentially allow people to form communities or exchange player content from within the platform, which hardly equates with "ungh, I will have to interact with people during my game ". A game being always-online is in itself a downside for a lot of potential gamers for various reasons, not merely the idea of forced social interaction. So are games being on consoles or requiring PCs people can't always afford (personally I'm itching to buy PS4 for their many delicious exclusives, but have other expenses I have to take care of). Yet both consoles and PC gaming with high demands are doing rather excellently these days, with Sony being a pro in providing excellent SP games specifically because current console business allows for it.
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Post by river82 on Nov 1, 2018 21:41:01 GMT
It's affect replayability, because on the first playthrough you'd obviously wouldn't care that encounters and missions are different from previous playthroughs. And to be honest, I'd take the radiant quests from Skyrim in a single player game. I don't need to be always online just so they can switch things up on me. So you'd take radiant fetch quests (because that's what mostly is there in Skyrim) rather than, say - a dramatic change in weather or environment or sudden, eventful encounters or even new quests and challenges (given that they'd likely come with the game being frequently updated)? I have a hard time believing that. Skyrim is played till these days thanks to modding community shaking things around and providing new content for the game. One could easily see that the game's biggest legacy isn't open world, but devs noticing how long the game lives thanks to it being, well, 'alive'... hence the current emphasis on live services, which Project Atlas seems to be largely built for. Well, new quests can just be done via patches. Same with new events. Same with eventful encounters. This sort of thing should be in the base game btw. You shouldn't need to be always online for that. But yeah, changes in weather and environment don't mean too much for me. The modding community certainly helps Skyrim stay alive, the point is you don't need to be always online for it. I don't require their constant input, their constant switches, their constant insertion of cool factors, just let me play my game please.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 1, 2018 21:46:52 GMT
o are games being on consoles or requiring PCs people can't always afford (personally I'm itching to buy PS4 for their many delicious exclusives, but have other expenses I have to take care of). Yet both consoles and PC gaming with high demands are doing rather excellently these days, with Sony being a pro in providing excellent SP games specifically because current console business allows for it. Good for you? You obviously don't have to buy anything you aren't interested in, for whatever reason. I'm merely saying that always-online, heavy-duty DRM (like, say, Denuvou), streaming-based gaming, "games as a service", and all other similar buzzwords are an immediate red flag for me, and in many cases one of those factors are the reason for me to avoid a certain game and choose another instead. "Games as a service" to me, means that once the company decides to stop supporting it, you no longer have a game to play.
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Post by rras1994 on Nov 1, 2018 21:51:40 GMT
They've put emphasis on social aspects, given that one of the main pitches of this thing is that social modules and other services have been integrated into Frostbite, but it most certainly isn't all there is. And stating or implying that they envision their games as 'social media' is definitely not what happened - saying that their more immersive, evolving, living games will lead to 'deep, meaningful social interactions' hardly means that. I mean, heck - don't WE on this forum have deep, meaningful social interactions based on Bioware games we played, just based on story and lore, for example? Most what they're saying centers around Frostbite now providing tools that will potentially allow people to form communities or exchange player content from within the platform, which hardly equates with "ungh, I will have to interact with people during my game ". Big difference: said interactions are separate from the game itself. In other SP games, I neither need nor want any aid or interference while I'm playing. Later sure I can go online and chat or argue about the game. But while I'm playing, I want to be alone.
Putting OTHER PEOPLE in MY game actually breaks immersion. It's not deep or meaningful, it's distracting. I don't want to be dependant on other people for my fun, and I don't want other people's fun to be dependent on me.
When I want that, I do tabletop. I don't have to be always online for that either.
Except you aren't forced - EA already has a game which intersects community with the single player game - The Sims 4. The Gallery on it allows you to share Sims, houses, rooms, pets etc. at the drop of a button or get other peoples creations. But you aren't forced to do it at all. It just gives you an option to do it in game when in previous iterations you either had to use the clunky official website to do it outside game, or visit miriads of fansites hosting the stuff. It was a really clunky system. Would you really be annoyed if you could access the Keep from within game, share your World state and character and be able to download others if you want? I'd personally find it way easier. Or have a place you could ask questions or exclaim about a story moment if you want? \We are literally talking about putting a button in game you can click if you want to.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 22:02:16 GMT
And it really has little with MP or SP games. Oh sure, games always online will naturally mean that we will likely keep getting more and more online, multiplayer or social modules in games of different types, but the extent of which stuff, like multiplayer, will be relevant in any individual game will very likely depend on the title/developer, rather than it existing within the whole project. To me that seems like a lot of weaseling around the issue. Or maybe that's just you trying to find a problem where there really isn't one. Your point may be simple, but not necessarily applicable. Oh sure, this is all about ultimately making them a ton of money... what baffles me is that you seem to think that there's just one way of doing it or that gaming companies will just try to freeze this moment in time and monetize games that way forever. But - clearly - times are changing. Ultimately I don't think companies will care that much about what you play, so long as you play it on their platforms/via their subscription services. Well of course, but... what does it have to do with the original point? It's mentioned in the article. At some point games and mods will be cloud-based. Changes to games will likely be tied to the account. It's... not really anything new. Steam Workshop works in similar fashion. I have no idea what kind of customization streaming and cloud computing will offer. Probably time savers or mods. This technology is still new and we have no idea what level of customization it'll offer in the future, however. A selling point that may always change, friend, especially if such kind of new technology will not just offer new monetizing opportunities, but also more tools to create games. Well, that's your prerogative. For me, one of the attractive aspects of gaming is that it's constantly changing and evolving and will continue to change and evolve regardless what EA or Microsoft or CDPR does, be it in ways either community or individuals like or don't. The one real solution to it is to just to asses them as they come and then decide whether an offered experience is what we're looking for.
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Post by vertigomez on Nov 1, 2018 22:08:47 GMT
Skyrim is played till these days thanks to modding community shaking things around and providing new content for the game. One could easily see that the game's biggest legacy isn't open world, but devs noticing how long the game lives thanks to it being, well, 'alive'... hence the current emphasis on live services, which Project Atlas seems to be largely built for. Skyrim's also a sandbox, though. My biggest worry... putting aside MP, and putting aside the always-online issue (I'm still against a SP game requiring any Internet connection beyond initial anti-piracy measures, if that)... is that the focus on new encounters, new "challenges", etc. is going to be a watering down of the main story. This has never been a problem in Skyrim because the emphasis was never on the main story. You can ignore it completely and get through the game just fine. Your character is barely a character. The emphasis on ever-changing encounters makes sense for that franchise as does their love for new environments, etc. but it would be a sad day for DA, where having a new mini-boss every week or community-decided rain in the Hinterlands is not going to contribute to the narrative at all. DAO and DA2 live on despite not being ever-changing. People come back for the story. There are a few cosmetic mods here and there but by and large that's not the draw of those games. They're loved for their solid stories and character arcs, not because there are always new levels and boss fights. Obviously we can't really do anything about it - technology marches on, and they have their priorities - I'm just wary as DAI already felt a bit watered down because of the emphasis on exploration and environments, and a lot of this just sounds like more of that. I'm certainly not going to preemptively ragequit over a few uncertainties, though. Have to wait and see what they actually deliver.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 22:12:06 GMT
Good for you? You obviously don't have to buy anything you aren't interested in, for whatever reason. I'm merely saying that always-online, heavy-duty DRM (like, say, Denuvou), streaming-based gaming, "games as a service", and all other similar buzzwords are an immediate red flag for me, and in many cases one of those factors are the reason for me to avoid a certain game and choose another instead. "Games as a service" to me, means that once the company decides to stop supporting it, you no longer have a game to play. Which is also true when the copy of my old game breaks, I no longer have a drive for it or it no longer works on OS I'm using. This is hardly a new problem. And we know from the existence of Vanilla WoW on private servers and licensed retro gaming platforms popping like mushrooms after rain that dedicated player bases can keep old titles alive if they want to. With basically all our computer activity probably migrating to cloud-based services one day, I'm fairly sure that we're going to see businesses and services that will keep many games people like on life support... that is if they're ever going to be NOT part of any library of active games of large publishers or platform owners.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 22:12:54 GMT
o are games being on consoles or requiring PCs people can't always afford (personally I'm itching to buy PS4 for their many delicious exclusives, but have other expenses I have to take care of). Yet both consoles and PC gaming with high demands are doing rather excellently these days, with Sony being a pro in providing excellent SP games specifically because current console business allows for it. Good for you? You obviously don't have to buy anything you aren't interested in, for whatever reason. Good for me that I CAN'T play games I want ATM...?
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Post by rras1994 on Nov 1, 2018 22:21:52 GMT
Skyrim is played till these days thanks to modding community shaking things around and providing new content for the game. One could easily see that the game's biggest legacy isn't open world, but devs noticing how long the game lives thanks to it being, well, 'alive'... hence the current emphasis on live services, which Project Atlas seems to be largely built for. Skyrim's also a sandbox, though. My biggest worry... putting aside MP, and putting aside the always-online issue (I'm still against a SP game requiring any Internet connection beyond initial anti-piracy measures, if that)... is that the focus on new encounters, new "challenges", etc. is going to be a watering down of the main story. This has never been a problem in Skyrim because the emphasis was never on the main story. You can ignore it completely and get through the game just fine. Your character is barely a character. The emphasis on ever-changing encounters makes sense for that franchise as does their love for new environments, etc. but it would be a sad day for DA, where having a new mini-boss every week or community-decided rain in the Hinterlands is not going to contribute to the narrative at all. DAO and DA2 live on despite not being ever-changing. People come back for the story. There are a few cosmetic mods here and there but by and large that's not the draw of those games. They're loved for their solid stories and character arcs, not because there are always new levels and boss fights. Obviously we can't really do anything about it - technology marches on, and they have their priorities - I'm just wary as DAI already felt a bit watered down because of the emphasis on exploration and environments, and a lot of this just sounds like more of that. I'm certainly not going to preemptively ragequit over a few uncertainties, though. Have to wait and see what they actually deliver. I mean a large amount of the article actually goes into how Project Atlas helps you make new content easier, they even mention BioWare's storytelling. If they can make the dev work quicker/more efficient we will get more story content. not less, as it's always the content that tends to be hardest/longest to complete. It's always been the biggest barrier to making single player story focused games GaaS (regular content over long term), is that it takes much longer to make the story content then it does to consume it. If they can make that easier? That allows a whole avenue for BioWare they didn't have before. Suddenly small linear games also become valuable as the cost/time to make it comes down meaning you don't have to sell as many. There's a lot of areas that could improve things
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 22:24:41 GMT
So you'd take radiant fetch quests (because that's what mostly is there in Skyrim) rather than, say - a dramatic change in weather or environment or sudden, eventful encounters or even new quests and challenges (given that they'd likely come with the game being frequently updated)? I have a hard time believing that. Skyrim is played till these days thanks to modding community shaking things around and providing new content for the game. One could easily see that the game's biggest legacy isn't open world, but devs noticing how long the game lives thanks to it being, well, 'alive'... hence the current emphasis on live services, which Project Atlas seems to be largely built for. Well, new quests can just be done via patches. Same with new events. Same with eventful encounters. This sort of thing should be in the base game btw. You shouldn't need to be always online for that. But yeah, changes in weather and environment don't mean too much for me. The modding community certainly helps Skyrim stay alive, the point is you don't need to be always online for it. I don't require their constant input, their constant switches, their constant insertion of cool factors, just let me play my game please. You need an online connection for patches tho, and it's quite possible that online component can offer way more than what any offline game could provide. Even without being a game dev it's not hard to imagine that there are technological and financial limits to how big or complex an offline game can be, especially with everything and a kitchen sink thrown at the player. Also: even before the whole idea of live services took shape we've been way past the idea that 'something should be part of the base game' btw. I know, because 'alive' games, with content stream flowing - be it modded or made by the studio - was one of the main points that made games attractive for me as entertainment, and that was almost 10 years ago.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 22:44:25 GMT
They've put emphasis on social aspects, given that one of the main pitches of this thing is that social modules and other services have been integrated into Frostbite, but it most certainly isn't all there is. And stating or implying that they envision their games as 'social media' is definitely not what happened - saying that their more immersive, evolving, living games will lead to 'deep, meaningful social interactions' hardly means that. I mean, heck - don't WE on this forum have deep, meaningful social interactions based on Bioware games we played, just based on story and lore, for example? Most what they're saying centers around Frostbite now providing tools that will potentially allow people to form communities or exchange player content from within the platform, which hardly equates with "ungh, I will have to interact with people during my game ". Big difference: said interactions are separate from the game itself. In other SP games, I neither need nor want any aid or interference while I'm playing. Later sure I can go online and chat or argue about the game. But while I'm playing, I want to be alone.
Putting OTHER PEOPLE in MY game actually breaks immersion. It's not deep or meaningful, it's distracting. I don't want to be dependant on other people for my fun, and I don't want other people's fun to be dependent on me.
When I want that, I do tabletop. I don't have to be always online for that either.
I have to ask if you're really reading what you're responding to... because I'm fairly sure that what I wrote clearly states that building social modules into engine/platform DOESN'T YET MEAN that they'll be putting other people in your game It may as well be entirely separate, non-intrusive or unnoticeable for all we know (the article is clearly written for game industry insiders, most of this stuff is about describing services and tools we gamers will likely not even notice when playing) and will probably largely depend on what kind of modules or game components each developer would like to use in their game, while also offering a selection of services external to the game, but built into the platform and accessible through it via client, similar to what we already can do on Steam, Origins or Discord. How is this hard to get...?
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Nov 1, 2018 22:47:16 GMT
I'm not going to worry about them putting other people in my single-player game until they put other people in my single-player game.
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