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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 22:08:48 GMT
Solas is a Dreamer. He’ll know everyone that well. If we play a new PC we interfere with his plans once he’ll look into us and we’ll be no better off. Meanwhile the Inquisitor knows more about him than anyone else so is the best choice to oppose him. It seems the Inquisitor who knows so much about Solas implies that Solas would know very little of what is going on in Tevinter. I don't see why Solas being a Dreamer is relevant though, any information Solas could possibly get out of spirits is not exactly 100% accurate all the time if at all. Dreamers can enter the minds of other people. How did you get Solas not knowing what’s going on in Tevinter? We know he has agents there.
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Post by davkar on Dec 28, 2018 22:10:43 GMT
DA protagonists are irresponsible idiots. The new hero always have to clean up the previous' mess. I'd like this tradition to continue. ![^_^](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/EtHtHOFIelYOpQMaMGkP.png)
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cankiie
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 28, 2018 22:11:25 GMT
It seems the Inquisitor who knows so much about Solas implies that Solas would know very little of what is going on in Tevinter. I don't see why Solas being a Dreamer is relevant though, any information Solas could possibly get out of spirits is not exactly 100% accurate all the time if at all. Dreamers can enter the minds of other people. How did you get Solas not knowing what’s going on in Tevinter? We know he has agents there. That is not what I read about them. Also
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 22:11:36 GMT
DA protagonists are irresponsible idiots. The new hero always have to clean up the previous' mess. I'd like this tradition to continue. ![^_^](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/EtHtHOFIelYOpQMaMGkP.png) What mess of the HoF’s did Hawke have to clean up?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 22:13:10 GMT
Dreamers can enter the minds of other people. How did you get Solas not knowing what’s going on in Tevinter? We know he has agents there. That is not what I read about them. Also What did you read of them that ran counter to that? It’s said explicitly in DA2 with Fenyriel. And we see it with Solas in DAI. What are you trying to say with the video?
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Post by davkar on Dec 28, 2018 22:13:34 GMT
DA protagonists are irresponsible idiots. The new hero always have to clean up the previous' mess. I'd like this tradition to continue. ![^_^](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/EtHtHOFIelYOpQMaMGkP.png) What mess of the HoF’s did Hawke have to clean up? Anders, duh.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 28, 2018 22:14:04 GMT
It seems the Inquisitor who knows so much about Solas implies that Solas would know very little of what is going on in Tevinter. I don't see why Solas being a Dreamer is relevant though, any information Solas could possibly get out of spirits is not exactly 100% accurate all the time if at all. Dreamers can enter the minds of other people. That doesn't make them all knowing, hence why Solas' has spies. A dreamer can enter the dreams of other people, it doesn't mean they magically know about them, or are able to get all the info there, but they can apparently torture or kill you. And since Solas already know about the Inquisitor and can hence enter their dreams and has done in the past, has spies on them, and knows exaclty how they work, it makes the Inquisitor even less able to fight against Solas. All he has to do is wait and have his spies tell him that Inky is moving to Tevinter and then enter their dreams and kill them. And he's not above killing friends via dreams either, remember Felassan?
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 28, 2018 22:16:20 GMT
That is not what I read about them. Also What did you read of them that ran counter to that? It’s said explicitly in DA2 with Fenyriel. And we see it with Solas in DAI. What are you trying to say with the video? They can "enter the fade"without the use of lyrium. Feynriel is also said to be a dreamer, and therefor he has a rare skill of being able to enter the fade without lyrium. It is not really entering the minds of people, per se.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 22:31:29 GMT
Dreamers can enter the minds of other people. That doesn't make them all knowing, hence why Solas' has spies. A dreamer can enter the dreams of other people, it doesn't mean they magically know about them, or are able to get all the info there, but they can apparently torture or kill you. And since Solas already know about the Inquisitor and can hence enter their dreams and has done in the past, has spies on them, and knows exaclty how they work, it makes the Inquisitor even less able to fight against Solas. All he has to do is wait and have his spies tell him that Inky is moving to Tevinter and then enter their dreams and kill them. And he's not above killing friends via dreams either, remember Felassan? Okay, fine. Solas finds out we are the ones who interfered with his plans, goes into new PC's dreams, kills them because he has no connection to them. So much better.
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cankiie
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 28, 2018 22:35:59 GMT
That doesn't make them all knowing, hence why Solas' has spies. A dreamer can enter the dreams of other people, it doesn't mean they magically know about them, or are able to get all the info there, but they can apparently torture or kill you. And since Solas already know about the Inquisitor and can hence enter their dreams and has done in the past, has spies on them, and knows exaclty how they work, it makes the Inquisitor even less able to fight against Solas. All he has to do is wait and have his spies tell him that Inky is moving to Tevinter and then enter their dreams and kill them. And he's not above killing friends via dreams either, remember Felassan? Okay, fine. Solas finds out we are the ones who interfered with his plans, goes into new PC's dreams, kills them because he has no connection to them. So much better. In most cases he can't. Solas can enter the fade but not dreams per se. As mentioned. Feynriel was also a dreamer which means he could enter the fade without lyrium. All mages sleep when they enter the fade so the fade is kind of a "dream" to them. So in DA4 Hawke and those with him entered the fade, not Feynriel's mind.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 28, 2018 22:36:19 GMT
That doesn't make them all knowing, hence why Solas' has spies. A dreamer can enter the dreams of other people, it doesn't mean they magically know about them, or are able to get all the info there, but they can apparently torture or kill you. And since Solas already know about the Inquisitor and can hence enter their dreams and has done in the past, has spies on them, and knows exaclty how they work, it makes the Inquisitor even less able to fight against Solas. All he has to do is wait and have his spies tell him that Inky is moving to Tevinter and then enter their dreams and kill them. And he's not above killing friends via dreams either, remember Felassan? Okay, fine. Solas finds out we are the ones who interfered with his plans, goes into new PC's dreams, kills them because he has no connection to them. So much better. If he finds out we are screwed pretty much. That's assuming he finds out and he's so much more likely to find out with a Inquisitor Protag. Unless the new Protag finds something so they don't enter the fade when they sleep. or are a dwarf. That would make you immune to it. But again, the Inquisitor is watched with spies watching everything they do, Solas is in the ideal position to counter their every move. Someone new he doesn't know about? He's not in as strong a position.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 28, 2018 22:38:01 GMT
Okay, fine. Solas finds out we are the ones who interfered with his plans, goes into new PC's dreams, kills them because he has no connection to them. So much better. In most cases he can't. Solas can enter the fade but not dreams per se. As mentioned. Feynriel was also a dreamer which means he could enter the fade without lyrium. All mages sleep when they enter the fade so the fade is kind of a "dream" to them. So in DA4 Hawke and those with him entered the fade, not Feynriel's mind. Every race apart from Dwarves enter the fade when they sleep. So a dwarf Inky could be okay. They'd still have to deal with the fact that Solas has spies that know everything they do, and that Solas knows them and how they operate.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 22:38:03 GMT
Okay, fine. Solas finds out we are the ones who interfered with his plans, goes into new PC's dreams, kills them because he has no connection to them. So much better. In most cases he can't. Solas can enter the fade but not dreams per se. As mentioned. Feynriel was also a dreamer which means he could enter the fade without lyrium. All mages sleep when they enter the fade so the fade is kind of a "dream" to them. So in DA4 Hawke and those with him entered the fade, not Feynriel's mind. From the Dragon Age wiki: Abilities: A talented dreamer can shape the Fade and affect the dreams of sleeping people, killing or driving them mad. Some such as Solas, can dream in forgotten ruins to uncover secrets long forgotten by witnessing spirits re-enact the history of a place. Admittedly though, the account of the dream may be biased depending on whose perspective the spirit chooses to emulate. However, dreamers attract demons and most prove too frail of mind to survive a demonic possession. As a result, dreamers are rare.[3] The very presence of demons is painful to dreamers, as they are particularly sensitive to them.[4]
Dreamers may use special dried herbs to help them enter the Fade. Strangely, these herbs smell fresh to the mage once they have entered the Fade. There are also herbs that can preclude sleep and block one from the Fade itself, if necessary.[5]
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 22:38:40 GMT
only played one of those and my Hawke was more or less...my Hawke (though we've had this conversation) BioWare never attempted to make Revan or Exile as anyone's Revan or Exile, there was no imported options that went into SWTOR, they just chose a canon world state and went with that as they were making an MMO. So I don't know why it would be applicable to DA4 as it's not like they were attempting to do anyone's Revan or Exile, they picked the world/story, there were no imported options like what influenced Hawke. Revan and the Exile are the opposite of BioWare trying to reflect peopl'es choices of their protag onto an NPC, they never attempted that and it was pretty clear they weren't doing that as well. Then they shouldn't have bothered with them, just like they shouldn't have bothered with Hawke.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 22:41:38 GMT
Okay, fine. Solas finds out we are the ones who interfered with his plans, goes into new PC's dreams, kills them because he has no connection to them. So much better. If he finds out we are screwed pretty much. That's assuming he finds out and he's so much more likely to find out with a Inquisitor Protag. Unless the new Protag finds something so they don't enter the fade when they sleep. or are a dwarf. That would make you immune to it. But again, the Inquisitor is watched with spies watching everything they do, Solas is in the ideal position to counter their every move. Someone new he doesn't know about? He's not in as strong a position. Depends on your choices. The whole point of the secret Inquisition is to be immune from his spies. So that puts them in the same position, better actually since knowing how they operate goes both ways. Even more so with that immunity to Solas's powers thing. Likewise the new PC isn't in nearly as strong a position to oppose Solas. This goes both ways as a Catch 22.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 28, 2018 22:42:17 GMT
BioWare never attempted to make Revan or Exile as anyone's Revan or Exile, there was no imported options that went into SWTOR, they just chose a canon world state and went with that as they were making an MMO. So I don't know why it would be applicable to DA4 as it's not like they were attempting to do anyone's Revan or Exile, they picked the world/story, there were no imported options like what influenced Hawke. Revan and the Exile are the opposite of BioWare trying to reflect peopl'es choices of their protag onto an NPC, they never attempted that and it was pretty clear they weren't doing that as well. Then they shouldn't have bothered with them, just like they shouldn't have bothered with Hawke. By this definition, they should never make books or comics of any of the franchises cus they have to do a canon state to do them. They wouldn't have been able to make SWTOR without picking a canon state of the galaxy, which would assume Revan and Exile choices and who they are any way.
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cankiie
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 28, 2018 22:42:32 GMT
In most cases he can't. Solas can enter the fade but not dreams per se. As mentioned. Feynriel was also a dreamer which means he could enter the fade without lyrium. All mages sleep when they enter the fade so the fade is kind of a "dream" to them. So in DA4 Hawke and those with him entered the fade, not Feynriel's mind. Every race apart from Dwarves enter the fade when they sleep. So a dwarf Inky could be okay. They'd still have to deal with the fact that Solas has spies that know everything they do, and that Solas knows them and how they operate. I was under the impression that you needed to have some kind of initial connection to the fade (be a mage) for that, unless under very specific circumstances. This is why you needed to be a mage in DA:O to enter that kid's dream, and there is some special circumstance in DA2 as well but I can't remember which, I believe it might have been that spirit inside Anders or something.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 28, 2018 22:44:27 GMT
Every race apart from Dwarves enter the fade when they sleep. So a dwarf Inky could be okay. They'd still have to deal with the fact that Solas has spies that know everything they do, and that Solas knows them and how they operate. I was under the impression that you needed to have some kind of initial connection to the fade (be a mage) for that, unless under very specific circumstances. This is why you needed to be a mage in DA:O to enter that kid's dream, and there is some special circumstance in DA2 as well but I can't remember which, I believe it might have been that spirit inside Anders or something. No, you enter the fade when you dream, you just aren't as connected or able to use it (all your powers) if you aren't a mage. That's why dwarfs don't dream as they have no connection to the fade. It's also why they can't be mages.
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 28, 2018 22:47:55 GMT
In most cases he can't. Solas can enter the fade but not dreams per se. As mentioned. Feynriel was also a dreamer which means he could enter the fade without lyrium. All mages sleep when they enter the fade so the fade is kind of a "dream" to them. So in DA4 Hawke and those with him entered the fade, not Feynriel's mind. From the Dragon Age wiki: Abilities: A talented dreamer can shape the Fade and affect the dreams of sleeping people, killing or driving them mad. Some such as Solas, can dream in forgotten ruins to uncover secrets long forgotten by witnessing spirits re-enact the history of a place. Admittedly though, the account of the dream may be biased depending on whose perspective the spirit chooses to emulate. However, dreamers attract demons and most prove too frail of mind to survive a demonic possession. As a result, dreamers are rare.[3] The very presence of demons is painful to dreamers, as they are particularly sensitive to them.[4]
Dreamers may use special dried herbs to help them enter the Fade. Strangely, these herbs smell fresh to the mage once they have entered the Fade. There are also herbs that can preclude sleep and block one from the Fade itself, if necessary.[5] Seems like more of a reason for the Inquisition to go ahead and try have an unknown variable influence stuff, as someone Solas already knows deeply would be so easily disposed of. But I doubt that dreamers could just enter the dream of the normal, average citizen and kill him/her like that, I am 100% certain it requires the fade, that is pretty much what is first thing that pops up about them, that they can enter the fade at will, without lyrium or blood magic.
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 28, 2018 22:49:27 GMT
I was under the impression that you needed to have some kind of initial connection to the fade (be a mage) for that, unless under very specific circumstances. This is why you needed to be a mage in DA:O to enter that kid's dream, and there is some special circumstance in DA2 as well but I can't remember which, I believe it might have been that spirit inside Anders or something. No, you enter the fade when you dream, you just aren't as connected or able to use it (all your powers) if you aren't a mage. That's why dwarfs don't dream as they have no connection to the fade. It's also why they can't be mages. I see!
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 28, 2018 22:50:34 GMT
What mess of the HoF’s did Hawke have to clean up? Anders, duh. And Flemeth. 😂
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 22:53:40 GMT
Then they shouldn't have bothered with them, just like they shouldn't have bothered with Hawke. By this definition, they should never make books or comics of any of the franchises cus they have to do a canon state to do them. They wouldn't have been able to make SWTOR without picking a canon state of the galaxy, which would assume Revan and Exile choices and who they are any way. No tears shed here about no SWTOR. As for the rest, there is a difference between side content like books or comics and actual sequels like games.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 28, 2018 22:54:43 GMT
If he finds out we are screwed pretty much. That's assuming he finds out and he's so much more likely to find out with a Inquisitor Protag. Unless the new Protag finds something so they don't enter the fade when they sleep. or are a dwarf. That would make you immune to it. But again, the Inquisitor is watched with spies watching everything they do, Solas is in the ideal position to counter their every move. Someone new he doesn't know about? He's not in as strong a position. Depends on your choices. The whole point of the secret Inquisition is to be immune from his spies. So that puts them in the same position, better actually since knowing how they operate goes both ways. Even more so with that immunity to Solas's powers thing. Likewise the new PC isn't in nearly as strong a position to oppose Solas. This goes both ways as a Catch 22. But we aren't immune to spies, it just says more secure( not as likely to be corrupt is basically what it says but we don't actually know if that corruptions means Solas or even other organisation - Orlais was trying to control us the whole time and we have the Qun infiltrate us in that DLC). And again, it doesn't go both ways, we are never able to go against Solas or outwit Solas the whole of DAI, he lies to us. The only stuff we know is the stuff he tells us at the end of Trespasser and we don't even know how much is accurate or even what his plans really are. We don't know how he operates either, he hides his full power the entire time. And we don't have immunity to Solas' powers or a way to get it unless you are a Dwarf.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Dec 28, 2018 22:55:10 GMT
I was under the impression that you needed to have some kind of initial connection to the fade (be a mage) for that, unless under very specific circumstances. This is why you needed to be a mage in DA:O to enter that kid's dream, and there is some special circumstance in DA2 as well but I can't remember which, I believe it might have been that spirit inside Anders or something. No, you enter the fade when you dream, you just aren't as connected or able to use it (all your powers) if you aren't a mage. That's why dwarfs don't dream as they have no connection to the fade. It's also why they can't be mages. Seems like a good reason for the next protagonist to be a dreamer. Doesn't have to be as good at solas, just good enough not to get killed in their dreams. That would exclude a dwarf, and would kind of force mage though I guess they can come up with an exception.
Or force dwarf only, i just find that unlikely.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 28, 2018 22:58:20 GMT
No, you enter the fade when you dream, you just aren't as connected or able to use it (all your powers) if you aren't a mage. That's why dwarfs don't dream as they have no connection to the fade. It's also why they can't be mages. Seems like a good reason for the next protagonist to be a dreamer. Doesn't have to be as good at solas, just good enough not to get killed in their dreams. That would exclude a dwarf, and would kind of force mage though I guess they can come up with an exception. Maybe but Felessan was a dreamer too, and got killed by Solas. He didn't even attempt to fight Solas though so.. perhaps, a Dreamer could. Maybe a member of the Qunari though? They say they don't dream and the clearly they can connect to the fade, hence Sarebas but perhaps they found away to block the fade when they dream, a sorta protection against it?
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