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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 24, 2019 1:54:22 GMT
I’m really torn about this. I would also be interested in playing a character with injuries or other limitations, but it would be disappointing to be in northern Thedas and not able to focus on someone from a new background. I vastly prefer Dragon Age’s “the continuing protagonist is the entire continent” approach vs. Mass Effect’s “you’re stuck in one person the whole time” approach. I like how, in Dragon Age, “us” and “them” can completely switch over time. For example, by being the Inquisitor, we got to see Teagan’s hostile posture toward Orlesians rather than just the friendly face he shows to other Fereldans. And there’s loads of opportunities for those kinds of viewpoint shifts in northern Thedas. We’ve embodied the Fereldan and Marcher perspectives on other civilizations, and only heard northern perspectives secondhand. Even a Nevarran or Rivaini protagonist would bring an interesting new spin. Or, if it has to be an outsider, throw something like Avvar into the mix. There are so many unique life stories throughout Thedas, and it seems a shame to be stuck as a Marcher, hearing about them secondhand. I'm not a fan of what they've done in the last couple games making the protagonist an outsider. My biggest hope for DA4 is that they bring back origins. The lame excuse they've given for dropping them is that they were just meant to introduce the setting, but now we're going to what will be (or at least should be) a dramatically different corner of Thedas and I can't think of a better way to introduce it and get us invested in it than how DA:O did. Imagine starting the game as a magister (choice of human or elven even) versus a non-magical, lower-class commoner versus an elven and/or qunari slave versus an Ambassadoria dwarf and so on. I'm super into the idea of starting out as a slave. I find lower-class/oppressed/minority protagonists waaaaaaaaaay more interesting than princes and shit these days. If they must go with only one origin, then slave would be my preference, because it's already established that anybody can be one. And if they want to give us some unique power like in Inquisition, that could easily be acheived by having us be made the subject of some demented magister's blood magic experiments.
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Post by Gwydden on Jan 24, 2019 2:31:35 GMT
I'm super into the idea of starting out as a slave. I find lower-class/oppressed/minority protagonists waaaaaaaaaay more interesting than princes and shit these days. If they must go with only one origin, then slave would be my preference, because it's already established that anybody can be one. And if they want to give us some unique power like in Inquisition, that could easily be acheived by having us be made the subject of some demented magister's blood magic experiments. That would be my second choice as well, although perhaps because of that surprisingly decent Spartacus show I really like the idea of beginning as a gladiator in particular. That would be a good premise to get at least one "origin" if several aren't possible. I still wish DA2 had started in Lothering and DA:I in the conclave. Bioware's grown fond of the in media res thing and keeps starting us after the inciting incident has already happened, and before I've been given a chance to care. Starting in your everyday life in a gladiatorial school or arena before everything goes to hell and you get your freedom (in a meta sense as well, as you'd get out of the restricted prologue and into the open-ended main body of the game) strikes me as a compelling setup. EDIT: And for the superpower thing, yeah, we've already got Fenris as an example.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 24, 2019 2:44:52 GMT
I'm super into the idea of starting out as a slave. I find lower-class/oppressed/minority protagonists waaaaaaaaaay more interesting than princes and shit these days. If they must go with only one origin, then slave would be my preference, because it's already established that anybody can be one. And if they want to give us some unique power like in Inquisition, that could easily be acheived by having us be made the subject of some demented magister's blood magic experiments. That would be my second choice as well, although perhaps because of that surprisingly decent Spartacus show I really like the idea of beginning as a gladiator in particular. That would be a good premise to get at least one "origin" if several aren't possible. I still wish DA2 had started in Lothering and DA:I in the conclave. Bioware's grown fond of the in media res thing and keeps starting us after the inciting incident has already happened, and before I've been given a chance to care. Starting in your everyday life in a gladiatorial school or arena before everything goes to hell and you get your freedom (in a meta sense as well, as you'd get out of the restricted prologue and into the open-ended main body of the game) strikes me as a compelling setup. EDIT: And for the superpower thing, yeah, we've already got Fenris as an example. Are gladiators a thing in Tevinter? Because that would be PERFECT as a catch-all origin, and intro to the setting. Your class/combat style could be determined by the weapon you select for your first fight, and you could be introduced to the combat mechanics and some major characters, and (ideally for me), conversations with other people at the arena would allow me to build my OWN backstory by choosing the answers to questions about where I come from and what I did before.
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Post by Gwydden on Jan 24, 2019 3:25:26 GMT
Are gladiators a thing in Tevinter? Because that would be PERFECT as a catch-all origin, and intro to the setting. Your class/combat style could be determined by the weapon you select for your first fight, and you could be introduced to the combat mechanics and some major characters, and (ideally for me), conversations with other people at the arena would allow me to build my OWN backstory by choosing the answers to questions about where I come from and what I did before. That's one for the lore experts, but I don't think they're not not a thing. If we go to Tevinter, we're bound to "discover" lots of stuff about the country we never heard about before, as the writers come up with them. And there's even a good way to set it up already: Tevinter's buddy with the dwarves and the dwarves got arena fights. You could just say Tevinter stole the idea from them and modified it to fit their society and culture, even if the people from Orzammar find the update crass.
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N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 129 Likes: 220
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by yogsothoth on Jan 24, 2019 3:31:29 GMT
Are gladiators a thing in Tevinter? Because that would be PERFECT as a catch-all origin, and intro to the setting. Your class/combat style could be determined by the weapon you select for your first fight, and you could be introduced to the combat mechanics and some major characters, and (ideally for me), conversations with other people at the arena would allow me to build my OWN backstory by choosing the answers to questions about where I come from and what I did before. That's one for the lore experts, but I don't think they're not not a thing. If we go to Tevinter, we're bound to "discover" lots of stuff about the country we never heard about before, as the writers come up with them. And there's even a good way to set it up already: Tevinter's buddy with the dwarves and the dwarves got arena fights. You could just say Tevinter stole the idea from them and modified it to fit their society and culture, even if the people from Orzammar find the update crass. There is an Arena in Minrathous that's based on the Dwarves' Provings.
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Post by Artemis on Jan 24, 2019 3:50:44 GMT
Are gladiators a thing in Tevinter? Because that would be PERFECT as a catch-all origin, and intro to the setting. Your class/combat style could be determined by the weapon you select for your first fight, and you could be introduced to the combat mechanics and some major characters, and (ideally for me), conversations with other people at the arena would allow me to build my OWN backstory by choosing the answers to questions about where I come from and what I did before. That's one for the lore experts, but I don't think they're not not a thing. If we go to Tevinter, we're bound to "discover" lots of stuff about the country we never heard about before, as the writers come up with them. And there's even a good way to set it up already: Tevinter's buddy with the dwarves and the dwarves got arena fights. You could just say Tevinter stole the idea from them and modified it to fit their society and culture, even if the people from Orzammar find the update crass. BioWare aren't exactly known for their original storytelling and world-building, so I would guess that the Ancient Roman-esque country does indeed have gladiators.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,628 Likes: 12,824
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 30, 2019 18:25:09 GMT
That's one for the lore experts, but I don't think they're not not a thing. If we go to Tevinter, we're bound to "discover" lots of stuff about the country we never heard about before, as the writers come up with them. And there's even a good way to set it up already: Tevinter's buddy with the dwarves and the dwarves got arena fights. You could just say Tevinter stole the idea from them and modified it to fit their society and culture, even if the people from Orzammar find the update crass. BioWare aren't exactly known for their original storytelling and world-building, so I would guess that the Ancient Roman-esque country does indeed have gladiators. Sort of At the height of ancient Tevinter’s power, they had great relations with the dwarves, so much so that they took inspiration from the Dwarven Provings tradition and built a grand arena in Minrathous.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 30, 2019 21:34:35 GMT
BioWare aren't exactly known for their original storytelling and world-building, so I would guess that the Ancient Roman-esque country does indeed have gladiators. Sort of At the height of ancient Tevinter’s power, they had great relations with the dwarves, so much so that they took inspiration from the Dwarven Provings tradition and built a grand arena in Minrathous. It is now a Starcourt Mall.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jan 31, 2019 8:15:49 GMT
Yeah the Proving arena in Minrathous is mentioned in WoT, I think. BioWare aren't exactly known for their original storytelling and world-building, ... Kay.
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Starfang
N2
May your heart be your guiding key
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
XBL Gamertag: SadeLeamonde
Prime Posts: 500
Posts: 195 Likes: 206
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May your heart be your guiding key
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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500
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Post by Starfang on Feb 1, 2019 7:12:12 GMT
A new character with a fresh start like with every other DA game before, so no HOF, no Hawke, no Inq. No convoluted dual protagonists or spotlight-stealing former player character guest spots. DA4 should be the new protag's story, I don't care if they're a Tevinter magister or a janitor the other PCs had their screentime.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 1, 2019 18:40:50 GMT
I'm pretty confident that the Inquisitor will show up in DA4 just like Hawke.
Why else would the Keep ask what was the Inquisitor's specialization? Obviously so their fighting style will be more faithful to their abilities in DAI.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 1, 2019 18:49:45 GMT
I'm pretty confident that the Inquisitor will show up in DA4 just like Hawke. Why else would the Keep ask what was the Inquisitor's specialization? Obviously so their fighting style will be more faithful to their abilities in DAI. Please not like Hawke. I’d rather they not show up at all than be ruined like Hawke was.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 1, 2019 19:01:01 GMT
A new character with a fresh start like with every other DA game before, so no HOF, no Hawke, no Inq. No convoluted dual protagonists or spotlight-stealing former player character guest spots. DA4 should be the new protag's story, I don't care if they're a Tevinter magister or a janitor the other PCs had their screentime. so, to be clear, youd be against the inq making any screentime at all? What about former companions like Dorian or Sera?
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Big fan of the Dragon Age series. Usually enjoy a good lore discussion.
Posts: 116 Likes: 112
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Big fan of the Dragon Age series. Usually enjoy a good lore discussion.
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Post by mikoto on Feb 3, 2019 0:05:50 GMT
For me, as much as I'd love to pick up where we left off with the Inquisitor, given a new hand through healing magic I know that's not going to happen and its a shame given the connection and motive s/he has in wanting to stop Solas. Especially if a romanced female Lavellan.
So I voted for the next best thing for me. A new protagonist that either starts off as or soon joins as a secret agent of the... former Inquisition. I disbanded the Inquisition entirely yet my Trevelyan still banded up with a small group to try to deal with Solas apparently. Either way, a new protagonist charged by the former Inquisitor with the task of finding/stopping Solas. It fits in with the theme of finding new people to assist whose personality and methods Solas doesn't know.
For those that don't want much of a tie with the Inquisition remnants I suppose it could be up to the player how much they cooperate or involve the Inquisition remnants to a certain degree.
This at least allows for a broad choice of races and backgrounds for the new protagonist.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2019 3:27:20 GMT
So since we were getting a little off topic in the Tevinter war thread i wanted to move the conversation here.
Basically Hanako brought up the only way to save solas from becoming Corypheus 2.0 is by involving the Inquisitor.
While i do sympathise i dont take it as a given either. Because as i brought up in the thread there is already precedent for bioware botching a similar opprotunity. The Illusive Man was Shepards ally in ME 2 and then became the villain of three. Meanwhile Shepard went from ME 2 to 3 already had the relationship was already committed to stopping him and then...nothing. TIM went from being an interesting renegade to a caricature...imo at least.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 15, 2019 21:35:23 GMT
So since we were getting a little off topic in the Tevinter war thread i wanted to move the conversation here. Basically Hanako brought up the only way to save solas from becoming Corypheus 2.0 is by involving the Inquisitor. While i do sympathise i dont take it as a given either. Because as i brought up in the thread there is already precedent for bioware botching a similar opprotunity. The Illusive Man was Shepards ally in ME 2 and then became the villain of three. Meanwhile Shepard went from ME 2 to 3 already had the relationship was already committed to stopping him and then...nothing. TIM went from being an interesting renegade to a caricature...imo at least. The Blight already separates Solas from Corypheus, no? Corypheus being blighted isn’t nothing. The Calling is a huge influence, even over people who believe they’ve mastered it. It’s likely the reason why the Architect’s plan went so awry, and why the Wardens do so much shady/risky stuff. Everyone’s beholden to some forces greater than themselves, but blighted creatures are especially so.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2019 21:42:17 GMT
So since we were getting a little off topic in the Tevinter war thread i wanted to move the conversation here. Basically Hanako brought up the only way to save solas from becoming Corypheus 2.0 is by involving the Inquisitor. While i do sympathise i dont take it as a given either. Because as i brought up in the thread there is already precedent for bioware botching a similar opprotunity. The Illusive Man was Shepards ally in ME 2 and then became the villain of three. Meanwhile Shepard went from ME 2 to 3 already had the relationship was already committed to stopping him and then...nothing. TIM went from being an interesting renegade to a caricature...imo at least. The Blight already separates Solas from Corypheus, no? Corypheus being blighted isn’t nothing. The Calling is a huge influence, even over people who believe they’ve mastered it. It’s likely the reason why the Architect’s plan went so awry, and why the Wardens do so much shady/risky stuff. Everyone’s beholden to some forces greater than themselves, but blighted creatures are especially so. Flemths line in Inquisition comes to mind. ' As long as the music plays, we dance.' And i know there are huge differences between cory and Solas both in and out of character... But some people disagree with that assertion and perhaps more imporantly they are mirrors for one another. They both have simularities in their backstory and objectives which again seems to turn some people off. I find those simularities really juicy though because i like Solas alot despite his plans. Though i also did like Corypheus and sympathized with him despite his horrible plans... Just not as much. So i guess if Solas really becomes Cory 2.0 it wouldnt be horrible to me, but I'm hoping they can deliver on his potential and give us the Arishock instead.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 15, 2019 22:38:37 GMT
As much as I DO NOT like "ancient wizard returns to rule/destroy the world", the statement that Solas is "Corypheus 2.0" is at best an oversimplification.
But if we ARE doing the evil wizard thing, I'd rather have the veil be destroyed and the remaining Evanuris released immediately at the beginning of the game. Ideally Solas would be killed by them in the opening cutscene, and the main plot of the game would be tackling this new, much bigger threat.
But I feel like that is not gonna happen.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2019 22:46:12 GMT
As much as I DO NOT like "ancient wizard returns to rule/destroy the world", the statement that Solas is "Corypheus 2.0" is at best an oversimplification. But if we ARE doing the evil wizard thing, I'd rather have the veil be destroyed and the remaining Evanuris released immediately at the beginning of the game. Ideally Solas would be killed by them in the opening cutscene, and the main plot of the game would be tackling this new, much bigger threat. But I feel like that is not gonna happen. Also i have a hard time classifying Solas as 'evil'.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 15, 2019 23:08:33 GMT
As much as I DO NOT like "ancient wizard returns to rule/destroy the world", the statement that Solas is "Corypheus 2.0" is at best an oversimplification. But if we ARE doing the evil wizard thing, I'd rather have the veil be destroyed and the remaining Evanuris released immediately at the beginning of the game. Ideally Solas would be killed by them in the opening cutscene, and the main plot of the game would be tackling this new, much bigger threat. But I feel like that is not gonna happen. Also i have a hard time classifying Solas as 'evil'. Anything involving genocide is evil.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2019 23:15:22 GMT
Also i have a hard time classifying Solas as 'evil'. Anything involving genocide is evil. Obviously. But A. there is the concept that one can do evil to prevent a greater evil from occuring, especially a personal evil. And remember the man did essentially...destory elven civilization so he believes restoring that civilization is a net positive. B. He recognizes that his actions are evil. he wants to be shown a different way, go down a different path, and be proven wrong. Someone who is evil generally has no such qualms.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 15, 2019 23:23:25 GMT
Anything involving genocide is evil. Obviously. But A. there is the concept that one can do evil to prevent a greater evil from occuring, especially a personal evil. And remember the man did essentially...destory elven civilization so he believes restoring that civilization is a net positive. B. He recognizes that his actions are evil. he wants to be shown a different way, go down a different path, and be proven wrong. Someone who is evil generally has no such qualms. First, that still has him committing something you agree is an evil act thus it should be easy for you to classify him as evil. Second, no him acknowledging it is evil doesn't make him not evil. He's just willing to be evil to achieve his goals. Paradoxical possibly (What do you do when there is an evil that cannot be defeated through just means? Do you commit evil in order to defeat the greater evil, or do you remain just even if it means surrendering to evil? In either case, evil remains.), but it doesn't make him any less evil for committing that evil.
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 16, 2019 0:31:43 GMT
Obviously. But A. there is the concept that one can do evil to prevent a greater evil from occuring, especially a personal evil. And remember the man did essentially...destory elven civilization so he believes restoring that civilization is a net positive. B. He recognizes that his actions are evil. he wants to be shown a different way, go down a different path, and be proven wrong. Someone who is evil generally has no such qualms. First, that still has him committing something you agree is an evil act thus it should be easy for you to classify him as evil. Second, no him acknowledging it is evil doesn't make him not evil. He's just willing to be evil to achieve his goals. Paradoxical possibly (What do you do when there is an evil that cannot be defeated through just means? Do you commit evil in order to defeat the greater evil, or do you remain just even if it means surrendering to evil? In either case, evil remains.), but it doesn't make him any less evil for committing that evil. I’m not sure if I can classify it as evil. If a meteor hit the earth, wiping out all modern civilizations but leaving a few pockets of humans alive, those humans would eventually develop societies of their own. If I had a magical way to reverse the meteor’s environmental effects and restore modern technology/infrastructure to that world, it would unquestionably upend the societies they built. Those societies are built on a lower-tech foundation. Reintroducing modern tech would completely destabilize them, politically, socially, religiously. They would burn. But. Every day I don’t push the magic button, these people die of preventable illness, starvation, and all manner of suffering that modern tech could (after that initial period of upheaval) alleviate. I don’t get the luxury of pretending I’m not responsible for that suffering. Inaction is just as much a choice as action. By not bringing about the apocalypse, I am forcing them to continue living through the apocalypse. Now, I could perhaps wait for several more millennia as they slowly, painstakingly, maybe come back up to the level that was lost. That’s pretty poor comfort for everyone who suffers in between.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 16, 2019 0:37:43 GMT
First, that still has him committing something you agree is an evil act thus it should be easy for you to classify him as evil. Second, no him acknowledging it is evil doesn't make him not evil. He's just willing to be evil to achieve his goals. Paradoxical possibly (What do you do when there is an evil that cannot be defeated through just means? Do you commit evil in order to defeat the greater evil, or do you remain just even if it means surrendering to evil? In either case, evil remains.), but it doesn't make him any less evil for committing that evil. I’m not sure if I can classify it as evil. If a meteor hit the earth, wiping out all modern civilizations but leaving a few pockets of humans alive, those humans would eventually develop societies of their own. If I had a magical way to reverse the meteor’s environmental effects and restore modern technology/infrastructure to that world, it would unquestionably upend the societies they built. Those societies are built on a lower-tech foundation. Reintroducing modern tech would completely destabilize them, politically, socially, religiously. They would burn. But. Every day I don’t push the magic button, these people die of preventable illness, starvation, and all manner of suffering that modern tech could (after that initial period of upheaval) alleviate. I don’t get the luxury of pretending I’m not responsible for that suffering. Inaction is just as much a choice as action. By not bringing about the apocalypse, I am forcing them to continue living through the apocalypse. Now, I could perhaps wait for several more millennia as they slowly, painstakingly, maybe come back up to the level that was lost. That’s pretty poor comfort for everyone who suffers in between. Except in this case you(Solas) are the one who launch the asteroid to strike the Earth to raise up those few left.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 16, 2019 0:52:09 GMT
I’m not sure if I can classify it as evil. If a meteor hit the earth, wiping out all modern civilizations but leaving a few pockets of humans alive, those humans would eventually develop societies of their own. If I had a magical way to reverse the meteor’s environmental effects and restore modern technology/infrastructure to that world, it would unquestionably upend the societies they built. Those societies are built on a lower-tech foundation. Reintroducing modern tech would completely destabilize them, politically, socially, religiously. They would burn. But. Every day I don’t push the magic button, these people die of preventable illness, starvation, and all manner of suffering that modern tech could (after that initial period of upheaval) alleviate. I don’t get the luxury of pretending I’m not responsible for that suffering. Inaction is just as much a choice as action. By not bringing about the apocalypse, I am forcing them to continue living through the apocalypse. Now, I could perhaps wait for several more millennia as they slowly, painstakingly, maybe come back up to the level that was lost. That’s pretty poor comfort for everyone who suffers in between. Except in this case you(Solas) are the one who launch the asteroid to strike the Earth to raise up those few left. In my analogy, the meteor would be when he first made the Veil.
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