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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 11, 2018 16:50:47 GMT
Oh, please no. I want, nay, need to know that kind of thing about the romances. I don't have that many options, and I don't want to play the game for hours and hours only to then learn that the romance I chose does things like force a sex scene on me so either endure that or go back several hours to try again with someone else who may be the same situation. That's reasonable, but this could be shared for those who want to know at launch.Not dragged out over 6 months prior? Even better, BioWare could make the sex scenes a binary choice, so that those who want to bang can and vice versa.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 11, 2018 16:54:22 GMT
This may be a controversial point best for another thread. But I could see a benefit to DA4 romances being left to be discovered in the game rather than being painfully revealed over the months pre-launch.
BioWare has said that they wanted to highlight LGBT content in the past so that people would know it's there. That's fair, but then just say it's there and leave the joy of discovery of who and how in-game. That also side-steps some of the shitshow from the underbelly of the internet raging against the 'fact' of a character's orientation without actually knowing the character. I mean this is what happened with ME:A, but we still had our master spies crack the code (literally) before the release. I don't think I require to know romances beforehand, and I'd rather they not advertise that aspect of the game not because I don't want to know, but because video game journalism (on both sides) is going to spin it to fit whatever agenda they have.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 16:57:07 GMT
Oh, please no. I want, nay, need to know that kind of thing about the romances. I don't have that many options, and I don't want to play the game for hours and hours only to then learn that the romance I chose does things like force a sex scene on me so either endure that or go back several hours to try again with someone else who may be the same situation. That's reasonable, but this could be shared for those who want to know at launch.Not dragged out over 6 months prior? Even better, BioWare could make the sex scenes a binary choice, so that those who want to bang can and vice versa. They tried that with MEA, and that just led to different frustrations from the player base. While that would be nice, there is no way that they'd do that for every romance so it would still be blindly walking into a minefield for me. Just look at their previous games where at least half had it be mandatory.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 17:03:17 GMT
Well to be fair, they said they wanted to not highlight it in order for people to discover it on their own. And then proceeded to release footage of romances for both straight Scott and straight Sara, but no romances at all for any LGBT or ace PCs. So, in theory, it would work. But they would have do that for ALL romances including the straight romances. I wouldn't mind if they went this route. As one of the "master spies", I will still leverage my network of "little birds" to spoil the FUCK out of that information in a PM for anyone who wants to know. As I do.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 11, 2018 17:12:17 GMT
Well to be fair, they said they wanted to not highlight it in order for people to discover it on their own. And then proceeded to release footage of romances for both straight Scott and straight Sara. A point made. How goes the saying, '' don't force your sexuality down my throat!! '' etc? I kid (kinda) but yeah, definitely a point made.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Dec 11, 2018 17:29:10 GMT
gangrelbeckett Would you consider asking one of the mods to change the title of the thread so that the emphasis isn't on her trans-ness and it's just the same as any other character thread (Vaea thread, Sera thread, etc.)? Feel like that will cut down on some of the derailing. Good idea, what do you think gangrelbeckett?
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Post by 10k on Dec 11, 2018 17:35:33 GMT
gangrelbeckett Would you consider asking one of the mods to change the title of the thread so that the emphasis isn't on her trans-ness and it's just the same as any other character thread (Vaea thread, Sera thread, etc.)? Feel like that will cut down on some of the derailing. hmmm...a character thread with no emphasis on a character's identity or sexuality. Where people actually talk about the relevant things about said character, I didn't know such a thing exist, this is a great idea.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 17:52:54 GMT
gangrelbeckett Would you consider asking one of the mods to change the title of the thread so that the emphasis isn't on her trans-ness and it's just the same as any other character thread (Vaea thread, Sera thread, etc.)? Feel like that will cut down on some of the derailing. hmmm...a character thread with no emphasis on a character's identity or sexuality. Where people actually talk about the relevant things about said character, I didn't know such a thing exist, this is a great idea. So what are your thoughts on the role that she could play in DA4? I've been trying to get some of this dialogue off the ground for a day now. Would love to hear people's thoughts.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 11, 2018 18:06:14 GMT
hmmm...a character thread with no emphasis on a character's identity or sexuality. Where people actually talk about the relevant things about said character, I didn't know such a thing exist, this is a great idea. So what are your thoughts on the role that she could play in DA4? I've been trying to get some of this dialogue off the ground for a day now. Would love to hear people's thoughts.
I like the idea of her as an advisor and plot driving character, possibly with her more immersed in the Tevinter politics side of things while Dorian is more immersed in the business of the Inquisition.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Dec 11, 2018 18:10:54 GMT
gangrelbeckett Would you consider asking one of the mods to change the title of the thread so that the emphasis isn't on her trans-ness and it's just the same as any other character thread (Vaea thread, Sera thread, etc.)? Feel like that will cut down on some of the derailing. I know that would make things easier and Mae is more than just a transgender character
but the peculiarity of Mae and her significance beyond DA 4 should still be highlighted. I have nothing against your examples Vaea or Sera but i would argue that Mae is more unique.figure .
Mae has the potential to be the frist transgender companion from Bioware. This is an important step for Bioware and even the games themselves.
Also i don´t think a simple name change will ever stop the criticism or even hate.
In my humble opinion i would prefer if the thread title stay the same.
But overall the Mods should decide over this topic if this really headache for future conversations.
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Post by 10k on Dec 11, 2018 18:18:09 GMT
hmmm...a character thread with no emphasis on a character's identity or sexuality. Where people actually talk about the relevant things about said character, I didn't know such a thing exist, this is a great idea. So what are your thoughts on the role that she could play in DA4? I've been trying to get some of this dialogue off the ground for a day now. Would love to hear people's thoughts.
I've read Mae Wikia, I found it didn't give me much information about what she has accomplished. I probably will have to find the comics somewhere and read more. But what I did read gave me the impression that she is very crafty and her and Dorian created a group called the lucerni. From what I've read basically she wants to "restore" tevinter, I'm guessing she wants to change thedas perception of tevinter. Which could be very interesting in DA4, but I don't know how she could that. Tevinter is draped in heavy tradition, and is a city ran by mages. How would change even begin to come?
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 11, 2018 18:22:48 GMT
I don't really know what kind of role Mae will play, she will need an independent goal that doesn't just align with whatever Dorian is trying to achieve, I think. Unless Dorian isn't anywhere near as focal to the setting of DA4, then she could be the one to just represent the things Dorian stands for, just through her point of view. She is the voice of reason against Tevinter corruption in our roster of companions, and Dorian will take a backseat albeit being an active player nevertheless.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 18:38:55 GMT
So what are your thoughts on the role that she could play in DA4? I've been trying to get some of this dialogue off the ground for a day now. Would love to hear people's thoughts.
I like the idea of her as an advisor and plot driving character, possibly with her more immersed in the Tevinter politics side of things while Dorian is more immersed in the business of the Inquisition. I'm torn on the advisor thing. She and Dorian are very similar in background and viewpoint. Gaider seems to have drawn from the same well when developing them. I think Dorian was developed first because I remember Gaider stating that, had Mae been further along, she'd have been included in a larger role in DA:I. They are both from old, rich Tevinter Altus families. They are both the sole inheritor of the family upon their father's death. They are both LGBT people who have had issues with that inheritance because of their sexuality or gender identity. They are co-founders of the Lucerni. They both want to reform Tevinter's image and reduce corruption within the Magisterium. And they are both sassy flirts. I just can't see how having both of them in the same role (i.e. advisor) is a value add. I can see having one a companion and one an advisor. But not both as advisors unless they start teasing out their motivations a bit. My preference would be to have Mae as a companion and to have Dorian as either an advisor or a major quest NPC. I think there's more to explore with her and would rather see her get some time over Dorian (who I like very much), but is tread territory at this point. So what are your thoughts on the role that she could play in DA4? I've been trying to get some of this dialogue off the ground for a day now. Would love to hear people's thoughts.
I've read Mae Wikia, I found it didn't give me much information about what she has accomplished. I probably will have to find the comics somewhere and read more. But what I did read gave me the impression that she is very crafty and her and Dorian created a group called the lucerni. From what I've read basically she wants to "restore" tevinter, I'm guessing she wants to change thedas perception of tevinter. Which could be very interesting in DA4, but I don't know how she could that. Tevinter is draped in heavy tradition, and is a city ran by mages. How would change even begin to come? We were talking a bit about this yesterday. It's interesting. It's vague (likely on purpose at this point). If I had to guess, I'd say that they are going to be going the political path. Change from within the Magisterium. Convincing others to offer their support -- whether that convincing is through diplomacy and oration OR through more subversive means. What I think would be interesting is that this approach is vastly different than what we've seen in the past. My concern is that, for us to get any resolution, it would either have to have the game take place over a long period of time OR be unrealistically fast in how that change happens. Since, as, you said, Tevinter is a huge old traditional empire. I can't see change happening quickly.
One way to have quick change could be through inciting slave uprisings. But we haven't seen any indication that the Lucerni are anti-slavery. In fact, one of Mae's closest allies defends slavery in DA: I. But by working through underground networks to gain the support of the slaves, maybe when the "traditional" magisters are toppled, the Lucerni could be the ones standing to make the changes they want to see. Intersting that bringing down the traditional power structure in Tevinter through a slave rebellion (made up of many elven slaves) could align nicely with another agenda that we know about...... Could the Lucerni be manipulated and played by Fen'Harel to move his own agenda forward as well?
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Dec 11, 2018 18:56:42 GMT
I'm torn on the advisor thing. She and Dorian are very similar in background and viewpoint. Gaider seems to have drawn from the same well when developing them. I think Dorian was developed first because I remember Gaider stating that, had Mae been further along, she'd have been included in a larger role in DA:I. They are both from old, rich Tevinter Altus families. They are both the sole inheritor of the family upon their father's death. They are both LGBT people who have had issues with that inheritance because of their sexuality or gender identity. They are co-founders of the Lucerni. They both want to reform Tevinter's image and reduce corruption within the Magisterium. And they are both sassy flirts. I just can't see how having both of them in the same role (i.e. advisor) is a value add. I can see having one a companion and one an advisor. But not both as advisors unless they start teasing out their motivations a bit. My preference would be to have Mae as a companion and to have Dorian as either an advisor or a major quest NPC. I think there's more to explore with her and would rather see her get some time over Dorian (who I like very much), but is tread territory at this point. Its reminds me a lot to DAI and its handling from Cassandra and Leliana. Both are of course less similiar than Dorian to Mae but its enough for comparing it. Like Leliana before in DAO Dorian was already a full companion with lots of screentime. Bioware could possible bring Dorian back as companion but why should they do this? Especially if they had with Mae (and Harding) a fresher alternative? I still loved Varric in DAI but i can understand some criticism that he wasn´t that cool and interessing anymore to justify him again as companion.
Therefore i agree with you that Dorian should be Leader of Lucerni (Advisor or major NPC)
and Mae is your companion through the Game like Cassandra.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 19:07:17 GMT
gangrelbeckett I have a question about you wanting Mae as a companion. Elsewhere you talk about how the protagonist needs to keep a low profile so Solas won't notice them, hence why you think it shouldn't be the Inquisitor, and yet you think one of the most notable people in Tevinter should be accompanying us? Just seems to be a bit contradictory, so was curious as to your rationale.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 11, 2018 19:23:22 GMT
I like the idea of her as an advisor and plot driving character, possibly with her more immersed in the Tevinter politics side of things while Dorian is more immersed in the business of the Inquisition. I'm torn on the advisor thing. She and Dorian are very similar in background and viewpoint. Gaider seems to have drawn from the same well when developing them. I think Dorian was developed first because I remember Gaider stating that, had Mae been further along, she'd have been included in a larger role in DA:I. They are both from old, rich Tevinter Altus families. They are both the sole inheritor of the family upon their father's death. They are both LGBT people who have had issues with that inheritance because of their sexuality or gender identity. They are co-founders of the Lucerni. They both want to reform Tevinter's image and reduce corruption within the Magisterium. And they are both sassy flirts. I just can't see how having both of them in the same role (i.e. advisor) is a value add. I can see having one a companion and one an advisor. But not both as advisors unless they start teasing out their motivations a bit. My preference would be to have Mae as a companion and to have Dorian as either an advisor or a major quest NPC. I think there's more to explore with her and would rather see her get some time over Dorian (who I like very much), but is tread territory at this point. I don’t really want either as a companion because I want to see them more as political operators rather than our underlings. Even in an advisor capacity, I think they can be differentiated. If, say, they are divided about their focus for example, whether to devote more resources to chasing Solas or advancing their political cause. This could be interesting, as Dorian is the one with most hands on experience with that business. Also a point of comparison, Dorian spent his youth avoiding and disdaining a magister’s responsibilities while Maevaris has been fighting tooth and nail for her political power her entire life. Alternatively, one of them could be more of an important quest NPC that helps us throughout the plot.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Dec 11, 2018 19:34:01 GMT
and yet you think one of the most notable people in Tevinter should be accompanying us? Just seems to be a bit contradictory, so was curious as to your rationale. Well is Mae really that important? Like the rest of Lucerni plus Dorian they are than outcasts than really powerful political force. They gain over time more influence in the senat but this isn´t enough to evenendanger the position of Archon Radonis.
Also i don´t think that everyone in Tevinter even knows who Maevaris Tilani is. Not jet.
The Inquisitor is someone that is known everywhere.
Also why would Mae be any different than Cassandra and Vivienne before?
They were also well-known like Maevaris but they weren´t this influential like the Inquisitor. By the way that both could be Divine Victoria isn´t relevant. This is only from importance at the end and in Trespasser.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 20:25:17 GMT
and yet you think one of the most notable people in Tevinter should be accompanying us? Just seems to be a bit contradictory, so was curious as to your rationale. Well is Mae really that important? Like the rest of Lucerni plus Dorian they are than outcasts than really powerful political force. They gain over time more influence in the senat but this isn´t enough to evenendanger the position of Archon Radonis.
Also i don´t think that everyone in Tevinter even knows who Maevaris Tilani is. Not jet.
The Inquisitor is someone that is known everywhere.
Also why would Mae be any different than Cassandra and Vivienne before?
They were also well-known like Maevaris but they weren´t this influential like the Inquisitor. By the way that both could be Divine Victoria isn´t relevant. This is only from importance at the end and in Trespasser.
Yes, Mae is that important. Everyone in Tevinter knows of them as we see in the Deception comic, or at least enough that they would be conspicuous. The difference is in the Inquisition we weren't trying to keep a low profile, where you are arguing that will need to be the case in DA4.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Dec 13, 2018 12:55:20 GMT
MODERATOR POST
After seeing requests to change the name of the thread and reading the OP's point of view, we have discussed it internally and decided to change it to something more neutral. Many posts have veered off course and we hope the name change will keep the focus on Mae herself, and not any political issues that are off topic.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Dec 13, 2018 19:05:05 GMT
Ok to be honest i expected this decision. But its very kind that you waited and asked for my opinion. I really appreciate it. By the way isn´t it time for a Dragon Age Subforum for the DA 4 Characters? Or should we wait when DA 4 drops the names of the first revealed characters?
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Post by copper on Dec 13, 2018 20:02:57 GMT
As someone unfamiliar with the comics, how high up politically is Maevaris? If the protagonist gets to choose to ally with either Tevinter or the Qunari, could she be the faction leader for Tevinter? At least at the level to be a very influential quest giver I mean, not as the literal leader of Tevinter.
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Post by mousestalker on Dec 13, 2018 20:04:35 GMT
I'd rather wait until the characters are announced. All that's going on right now is speculation. Some informed, some not so much.
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Post by bshep on Dec 13, 2018 20:07:31 GMT
She and Dorian are leaders from a new faction on Tevinter, so they are possibily still vying for more political power.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 20:18:26 GMT
As someone unfamiliar with the comics, how high up politically is Maevaris? If the protagonist gets to choose to ally with either Tevinter or the Qunari, could she be the faction leader for Tevinter? At least at the level to be a very influential quest giver I mean, not as the literal leader of Tevinter. She is from a very rich, but not terribly influential family in the Magisterium. So somewhere in the low-middle range of the highest echelon of society. She is the only heir to the family, but even so, she has had a struggle to get the power owed to her. I don't remember if it's implied or explicit that this is because she's a transwoman. She also represents the minority political stance in the ruling class. She's the co-founder of the Lucerni, but they are a new and small political group that is looking to upset the traditional power structure in Tevinter.
So, ultimately, she certainly has more power than the average Tevinter citizen. Like, alot more power than the average. But, within the ruling class, she's got a lot of strikes against her from being "the" political power there. But she could very easily be an influential quest giver (a la Gaspard) or a politically important companion (a la Vivienne/Cassandra).
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 13, 2018 20:45:26 GMT
Her surname is spelled wrong in the title. 👀 Tilani not Telani. As someone unfamiliar with the comics, how high up politically is Maevaris? If the protagonist gets to choose to ally with either Tevinter or the Qunari, could she be the faction leader for Tevinter? At least at the level to be a very influential quest giver I mean, not as the literal leader of Tevinter. In addition to what @daveliam said, Mae was also married - not officially, but might as well have been - to Varric's cousin Thorold before his assassination uh... accidental fall off a roof... and he was a representative of Orzammar and a wealthy merchant prince to boot. So she's got connections.
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