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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 10, 2018 2:10:14 GMT
I would like Mae to be so trans that it only comes up as a fact rather than some sort of sob story. Because that's real too. I don't think it would be a sob story. Nothing in her backstory suggests it would be.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 10, 2018 3:43:02 GMT
I again want to point out that the original solution to this problem of representation that many of you feel is there was the "player-sexual" approach in Dragon Age 2.
The solution everyone hated because they felt it flattened the characters out.
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Post by Dirk on Dec 10, 2018 4:15:44 GMT
Considering Mae's dream in the Fade i would guess she is only into men. As with any character, I never assume unless they or the devs tell us outright. 👀 Great point! It's the same case with Anders where he was shown to be attracted to female characters in a previous game. Anders is one of my favorite m/m romance in Dragon Age games! So, I personally see zero problems if she turns out to be bi.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Dec 10, 2018 4:21:14 GMT
I would like Mae to be so trans that it only comes up as a fact rather than some sort of sob story. Because that's real too. I would like that. I again want to point out that the original solution to this problem of representation that many of you feel is there was the "player-sexual" approach in Dragon Age 2. The solution everyone hated because they felt it flattened the characters out. While it didn't bothered me when i was playing It is a bit "unrealistic" having everyone you meet being bi.
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Post by phoray on Dec 10, 2018 4:24:35 GMT
I dunno, I always got the Pan vibe, and Hawke was just especially salivation inducing due to Awesome. None of them really had a preference.
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Post by arvaarad on Dec 10, 2018 4:31:04 GMT
I dunno, I always got the Pan vibe, and Hawke was just especially salivation inducing due to Awesome. None of them really had a preference. We assumed they took away all of concept!Hawke’s lycanthropic elements, but they left the wolf pheremones intact.
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Post by phoray on Dec 10, 2018 4:33:21 GMT
I dunno, I always got the Pan vibe, and Hawke was just especially salivation inducing due to Awesome. None of them really had a preference. We assumed they took away all of concept!Hawke’s lycanthropic elements, but they left the wolf pheremones intact. Hmmm. good thing those werewolves in the Brecillian forest were prone to immediate violence or there would have been a super odd orgy. The Grand Oak would have DJ'd the event, poem style.
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Post by Artemis on Dec 10, 2018 4:41:12 GMT
While it didn't bothered me when i was playing It is a bit "unrealistic" having everyone you meet being bi. "everyone you meet" a.k.a. 4 people
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Post by arvaarad on Dec 10, 2018 4:48:26 GMT
We assumed they took away all of concept!Hawke’s lycanthropic elements, but they left the wolf pheremones intact. Hmmm. good thing those werewolves in the Brecillian forest were prone to immediate violence or there would have been a super odd orgy. “Haha, yes, would have been.” -the Lady of the Forest, hastily closing 15 a/b/o tabs
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Post by phoray on Dec 10, 2018 4:48:32 GMT
No, you assumed the political affiliations of me, a homosexual panda. That just reads as hilarious.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 10, 2018 5:11:21 GMT
Even though I only flirt with my intended LI, I think everyone should have at least one option flirt. It seems an organic way to discover whether someone might be interested. I thought it was nice that some of the DAI LI had rejection options that fit their personality. Exactly this. Having a flirt option, even if our interest is not reciprocated, seems like the best way to approach non-LI's or gated-romances.
With Solas, it wouldn't have been out-of-character for him to gently turn down the advances of male/non-Elven Inquisitors, saying that although he was flattered by their interest, he was not seeking companionship at this time. Even in his romance, he tries to discourage Lavellan's interest in him several times before finally breaking things off, so him claiming he wasn't looking for a relationship wouldn't be at all untrue.
I don't think it would be a sob story. Nothing in her backstory suggests it would be. I think it'd be easier if the devs clarified to us just what Tevinter's stance on trans individuals is, as our only reference points come from wildly different sets of circumstances.
Mae is a wealthy, powerful magister and Krem is a soporati soldier, so even if we assume that there is some discrimination against trans individuals (like there is towards homosexuality) in Tevinter, their individual experiences and acceptance would likely differ from each other.
If that's the case, then rather than a "sob story", Mae could still be an advocate for acceptance, recognising that her wealth and privilege was all that prevented her from facing the same type of discrimination that other LGBTQ individuals may face in Tevinter society. You don't need to have faced hardship yourself to want to change things and improve the lives of others, after all.
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Post by phoray on Dec 10, 2018 5:18:51 GMT
recognising that her wealth and privilege was all that prevented her from facing the same type of discrimination that other LGBTQ individuals may face in Tevinter society Now that would be some interesting socioeconmic commentary about her being Trans that would just be factual rather than a sob story. Like... I feel like Dorian's dad being upset about his being gay should have been more focused on the lack of true biological heirs, not that Dorian wouldn't play the part of a straight man in a loveless marriage (which, when phrased like that, is an absurd thing to get upset about.) With Tevinter's obsession with breeding, this makes sense. But then it seemed to be more about his just being gay AT ALL, not the heir thing. Maybe Dorian's dad personally had a prob with it which differed from most of Theodosian society. It was just a bummer that something I like a lot about Thedas is sexuality isn't a big deal so long as babies come alone somehow, and then it was all about his being gay, that mission. Like it was our world :/ Mae being Trans, I thought the issue was about inheritence of the Magister Title and all that means (which seems to only be given to men, at least so far, I do not recall a female magister off the top of my head.) But also just an opportunity to try to cut out the competition for any reason, no matter how tenuous. I just never got the feeling is was BECAUSE SHE'S TRANS, OHMERGAWD. So I'd like it the "issues" abot trans for Mae to be more logistical and political back stabbing and way less, "because I'm different. Tearz" Edit add: Oops, got reminded that Imperial Mage /=/ Magister and that Magisters can't be Divine or Archon. Silly me
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 10, 2018 5:26:47 GMT
I thought the issue was about inheritence of the Magister Title and all that means (which seems to only be given to men, at least so far, I do not recall a female magister off the top of my head.) There are female Magisters. Calpernia is one for example. Dorian also mentions female Magisters when he talks about how only men become the Black Divine.
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Post by phoray on Dec 10, 2018 5:29:53 GMT
I thought the issue was about inheritence of the Magister Title and all that means (which seems to only be given to men, at least so far, I do not recall a female magister off the top of my head.) There are female Magisters. Calpernia is one for example. Dorian also mentions female Magisters when he talks about how only men become the Black Divine. I meant like .. they balked because Mae may have insisted they keep the same male rights while going about and expecting to be treated as the woman she was. They wouldn't want competition, so they'd argue she couldn't have it both ways. But now I'm think on it longer, no all Imperial mages are magisters and magisters can't be Divine or Archon. So just being a magister removers her from arguing to be able to apply for those jobs.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 10, 2018 6:16:51 GMT
Now that would be some interesting socioeconmic commentary about her being Trans that would just be factual rather than a sob story. Like... I feel like Dorian's dad being upset about his being gay should have been more focused on the lack of true biological heirs, not that Dorian wouldn't play the part of a straight man in a loveless marriage (which, when phrased like that, is an absurd thing to get upset about.) With Tevinter's obsession with breeding, this makes sense. But then it seemed to be more about his just being gay AT ALL, not the heir thing. Maybe Dorian's dad personally had a prob with it which differed from most of Theodosian society. It was just a bummer that something I like a lot about Thedas is sexuality isn't a big deal so long as babies come alone somehow, and then it was all about his being gay, that mission. Like it was our world :/ With Dorian, I feel like they could have gone for the route of him having an older sibing who died unexpectedly and forced him into the unwanted position of having to carry on the Pavus lineage.
Whereas previously his sexuality was not much of an issue for his father, due to his older sibling being able to carry on the line, now it was a sore point of contention between them. Rather than being entirely about Halward not accepting his son's sexuality, it was more that he didn't accept that it should prevent Dorian from carrying on the family line (which the game does slightly imply).
Rather than attempting to permanently alter Dorian with Blood Magic, maybe it should have been that Halward only planned to influence him long enough to secure an heir. That by now means makes his plan any less abhorrent (since he was removing Dorian's ability to consent), but maybe Halward never actually intended to go through with it.
Rather the ritual was something that he'd considered in his desperation and tried to rationalise as being "only temporary", but ultimately came to his senses and was ashamed of his hypocrisy and weakness. Unfortunately, Dorian found his notes before he could destroy them and fully believed his father intended to go through with it, leading to the rift as presented.
It would make Halward slightly more redeemable than the version we got, as well as make more sense why Dorian would be willing to forgive (or at least reconcile with) his father. I don't know if I could be so forgiving of someone who wanted to permanently alter my mind, at the risk of turning me into a "drooling vegetable".
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 10, 2018 6:41:08 GMT
While it didn't bothered me when i was playing It is a bit "unrealistic" having everyone you meet being bi. "everyone you meet" a.k.a. 4 people You're right, everyone was either bi, bi until proven otherwise or straight!
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Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 10, 2018 7:00:07 GMT
"everyone you meet" a.k.a. 4 people You're right, everyone was either bi, bi until proven otherwise or straight! Hey, Karl might have been gay instead of bi!
(But you only meet him for like two minutes before his ex-boyfriend has to kill him so I'm not sure this should count.)
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 10, 2018 7:06:07 GMT
You're right, everyone was either bi, bi until proven otherwise or straight! Hey, Karl might have been gay instead of bi!
(But you only meet him for like two minutes before his ex-boyfriend has to kill him so I'm not sure this should count.)
But there's no proof of him being gay, dat's the point. He might be gay, but as I said, BI until proven otherwise. Most NPCs will be bi until proven otherwise even if they have or had a same sex partner. Their sexualities will never be revealed because it's pretty useless info, and that's why gender restricted romances are the best way to add characters beyond B (and potentially T) and is the reason I hope they keep this trend in DA4.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 10, 2018 8:06:37 GMT
BioWare's policy of introducing a selection of romance orientations seems pretty set now. (so some characters are just 'not into you').
I'd expect everyone to have at least a binary choice that suits the orientation of their playthrough.
Beyond that, storytelling may lead to some having an additional choice, it won't always be a flat: 2 / 2 / 2 orientations.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 10, 2018 8:16:39 GMT
BioWare's policy of introducing a selection of romance orientations seems pretty set now. (so some characters are just 'not into you'). I'd expect everyone to have at least a binary choice that suits the orientation of their playthrough. It's not really about romance per se, just the want to see more gay dudes in video games. And by gay dudes I don't mean bi dudes, or trans dudes (although they are VERY welcome as well), but gay dudes. In terms of romance, I'll probably always prefer the bi guys, as it has been with every other Bioware game. But even if I don't like Dorian's romance for instance, he is still a special guy for me because it's nice to finally see some gay men in games, playing an important role, and having tons of content. I'd even go for the '' everyone is bisexual '' route if I was guaranteed a new (well-written, important, specified to be gay in-game) gay male companion, with no romance option for him. But since I really haven't figured out how to bring up one's homosexuality in a video game about saving the world, in a way that it isn't offputting, corny and hamfisted as hell, I prefer the set sexualities route for romances because it's an easy way to add LGB(T) into a game without it feeling too out of place. And by LGB(T) I do mean LGB(T), not '' bi until proven otherwise. '' Of course someone might now say how vain and shallow I might be and how I should concentrate on the game instead of romances and representation but eh.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 10, 2018 8:41:22 GMT
While it didn't bothered me when i was playing It is a bit "unrealistic" having everyone you meet being bi. Aside from Sebastian, although he was a DLC companion. We assumed they took away all of concept!Hawke’s lycanthropic elements, but they left the wolf pheremones intact. And give default Male Hawke facial hair that refuses to revert back to human form.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 10, 2018 9:43:06 GMT
It's not really about romance per se, just the want to see more gay dudes in video games. I think BioWare have shown their desire to have a representative character-base (even if they are occasionally clumsy in implementing it). I think Patrick Weekes' record on being attentive to this matter is pretty decent.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 10, 2018 9:48:50 GMT
It's not really about romance per se, just the want to see more gay dudes in video games. I think BioWare have shown their desire to have a representative character-base (even if they are occasionally clumsy in implementing it). I think Patrick Weekes' record on being attentive to this matter is pretty decent. I don't know man, I think I'll rather be cautious even if I love Dragon Age and it has always been pretty decent on the '' representation '' front. After ME:A, I think it's best to keep my hopes as grounded as possible. But we are at the starting stretch of DA4, I'll be hyping and forgetting all about my pessimism when we start getting more info. Right now it's easier to be pessimistic when we know so little, and the wounds (LOL) from ME:A are still healing.
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arcanistranger
N2
Elvis Has Left The Building
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 137 Likes: 227
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 10, 2018 23:57:54 GMT
I just don't want another Andromeda. Then don't throw an insane fit over female characters not being "hot" enough?
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Post by 10k on Dec 11, 2018 0:16:06 GMT
I just don't want another Andromeda. Then don't throw an insane fit over female characters not being "hot" enough? Oh it's you again, the one who claimed I didn't play the game. Please point me to where I ever said females in games aren't hot enough. I'll even give you money if you can do it. Personally I think romances in games are cringy in the first place, so I don't care rather or not a character is considered "attractive". It's a game.
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