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Post by midnight tea on Jun 13, 2024 20:48:56 GMT
That was in relation to the ritual having a shape it had (haphazardly constructed scaffolding holding the statues, etc.) - I'm talking about all the clues left in Inquisition and earlier games, brought up not just by Solas, but also Mythal, Cole and several other characters, as well as some environmental clues, suggesting quite heavily that Thedas is running out of time - that something sinister is about to happen in near future, related to that strange Eclipse as well as the Blight. I'm sure that is the case, so why didn't he friggin tell us? That is what was so frustrating about all this. I'm pretty sure it was a case that everyone will die in the end regardless but his way perhaps some might survive and the red lyrium/blight would be gone. If he'd said that, we could have helped. Perhaps researched possible alternatives whilst he was putting his ritual together. Instead he left everyone in the dark and then it ends up going wrong as a result. I mean, aside from trust issues, there's a question whether he even CAN tell us, or whether the threat would be so abstract to creatures unfamiliar with ancient magic that trying to explain it to them would be like talking in another language. We don't really know if things Solas is fighting against are truly beyond mortal comprehension (he seems to think that), but we may have to accept that it may indeed be the case.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 13, 2024 20:49:14 GMT
Solas: I suspect you have questions. Inquisitor/Rook/Harding/Varric: Yes, what was the plan?
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 13, 2024 20:53:06 GMT
That was in relation to the ritual having a shape it had (haphazardly constructed scaffolding holding the statues, etc.) - I'm talking about all the clues left in Inquisition and earlier games, brought up not just by Solas, but also Mythal, Cole and several other characters, as well as some environmental clues, suggesting quite heavily that Thedas is running out of time - that something sinister is about to happen in near future, related to that strange Eclipse as well as the Blight. I'm sure that is the case, so why didn't he friggin tell us? That is what was so frustrating about all this. I'm pretty sure it was a case that everyone will die in the end regardless but his way perhaps some might survive and the red lyrium/blight would be gone. If he'd said that, we could have helped. Perhaps researched possible alternatives whilst he was putting his ritual together. Instead he left everyone in the dark and then it ends up going wrong as a result. The only reason I can see why he wouldn't do this is because if we know there are no alternatives... well that's going to suck even more because you spend years trying to find solutions, forming alliances, forging friendships and relationships, and the result is well you are all going to die anyway sorry, or even worse, perhaps he will even change his mind about the nature of the world and it's people. Perhaps it's easier for him to just force himself to detach himself from civilization and people, and embrace his role as a villain while dealing with the consequences of the inhumane actions he sees as an obligation.
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Post by DragonRacer on Jun 13, 2024 20:55:01 GMT
Solas: I suspect you have questions. Inquisitor/Rook/Harding/Varric: Yes, what was the plan? Solas is the new Dutch with all these “plans”. LOL
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 13, 2024 20:56:05 GMT
I'm sure that is the case, so why didn't he friggin tell us? That is what was so frustrating about all this. I'm pretty sure it was a case that everyone will die in the end regardless but his way perhaps some might survive and the red lyrium/blight would be gone. If he'd said that, we could have helped. Perhaps researched possible alternatives whilst he was putting his ritual together. Instead he left everyone in the dark and then it ends up going wrong as a result. I mean, aside from trust issues, there's a question whether he even CAN tell us, or whether the threat would be so abstract to creatures unfamiliar with ancient magic that trying to explain it to them would be like talking in another language. We don't really know if things Solas is fighting against are truly beyond mortal comprehension (he seems to think that), but we may have to accept that it may indeed be the case. He could have still, oh what’s the word oh yeah, TRIED! I know he thinks the modern races aren’t even people, but it’s amazing how you can explain super complex things in simple terms.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 13, 2024 20:56:31 GMT
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Post by Grog Muffins on Jun 13, 2024 20:56:47 GMT
That's a bit of conjecture, though. What he says is that he locked them away because they got too cruel and arrogant and the final straw was killing Mythal. The issue is he outright refuses to say anything helpful. Whether things will be worse if he does nothing versus him doing what he's doing is irrelevant, he's deciding the fate of the entire world seemingly on a whim and refuses to explain in any way. He doesn't have a right to make that decision, it's borderline what the Evanuris did. Of course people aren't just going to lie down and let him put his boot on their necks. I certainly wouldn't let anyone kill me after they say that what's coming is much worse and if I ask him to elaborate he just says "trust me bro". Nah mate, not gonna trust, you either talk or you get bent. He really loved talking and answering questions in Inquisition but suddenly now he's a mute. he did talk though. Inquisitor: but won't that release the gods to? Solas: I had plans. And look what just happened. I suppose talking a bunch of idiocy is still talking, I'll give you that. Solas: I had plans. Inquisitor: What does that mean? Solas, doing his best River Song impression: Spoilers! Me: MFer, you just said you'll free Satan, you'd better have a better argument than that if you want me to trust you. Solas, years later, getting thwarted because he refused to elaborate on his plans because he has trust issues: *Pikachu face* Curses, my plan that I refused to elaborate because I thought everyone was untrustworthy was thwarted because I refused to elaborate and made myself untrustworthy! Why won't anyone trust me and let me burn the world, I know what I'm doing, honest! Trust is so hard to come by, oh woe! That's a bit of conjecture, though. What he says is that he locked them away because they got too cruel and arrogant and the final straw was killing Mythal. The issue is he outright refuses to say anything helpful. Whether things will be worse if he does nothing versus him doing what he's doing is irrelevant, he's deciding the fate of the entire world seemingly on a whim and refuses to explain in any way. He doesn't have a right to make that decision, it's borderline what the Evanuris did. Of course people aren't just going to lie down and let him put his boot on their necks. I certainly wouldn't let anyone kill me after they say that what's coming is much worse and if I ask him to elaborate he just says "trust me bro". Nah mate, not gonna trust, you either talk or you get bent. He really loved talking and answering questions in Inquisition but suddenly now he's a mute. I've made that argument before, so I'm just going to paste it: Sometimes telling truth at a wrong time can have a detrimental effect. Also - one has to consider that that this is likely NOT something easily discussed. We're potentially talking about an easily corrupting power that may even have its own sentience and a world in which even just knowing certain things may magically corrupt a person (and Andruil was a god-like being). So far Solas (and Mythal) remain probably some of the very few who know something big and they seem super-determined to keep it a secret, for what it looks to be the protection of the world. And assuming that we're just ready for this knowledge, with little to no preparation, doesn't seem to me as any less problematic than Solas's supposed condescension. I mean, it's not like we didn't get a pretty substantial warning about biting more than we can chew in DAI. He had 8 years to come up with a way to put all of it into words and find the right moment to talk to the people that have proven are trustworthy enough to be told and won't betray him, though. At the start of this game it seems that everyone is still under the impression he's doing it because he wants to bring back the world of the ancient elves, so I'm going to infer he hasn't even tried. Not a good look for him. When your friends are desperate to pull you back from the brink and plead and beg with you but you refuse constantly, you don't get to be angry when they stop asking and take decisive action.
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Post by lk13 on Jun 13, 2024 21:01:44 GMT
Want to bet on that one? I blame the Inquisitor. We had 8 years to come up with what to do when we finally catch up we the Wolf and still the only idea was "talk him down" (like that one worked so well the last time) or .....? (We were saying this after the comic the Missing since it was clear back then Harding and Varric had absolutely no idea what they were going to do). Then again, perhaps Solas should have told us what he intended to do in terms of the ritual and why it would not be a good idea to disturb it once it started. I do think that dropping a giant statue on him probably wasn't the best idea, although to be fair to Rook they were trying to disrupt the ritual, not actually squish the mage. Usually breaking the connection does the trick, although come to think of it, doesn't that tend to break the bonds holding the spirit/demon in place? Also, I'm assuming from the look on his face that petrification doesn't work on gods. I mean to be fair what can we do at the start of the game? If Solas wanted, he could've insta-petrified Varric, Rook, Harding, everybody else there, and continue with the ritual. The only options available were diplomacy or distraction (or both at the same time). I think it's a given things will change at some point in the game though. I doubt we'll just let (possibly blighted) Elven gods rampage freely throughout Thedas
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Post by themikefest on Jun 13, 2024 21:07:29 GMT
ah yes, I had plans as chuckles the clown says. Is that the same thing he said way back when? Is that the same thing he said when letting his lackeye's help Cory locate his orb? He's a walking failure.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Jun 13, 2024 21:07:52 GMT
I'm sure that is the case, so why didn't he friggin tell us? That is what was so frustrating about all this. I'm pretty sure it was a case that everyone will die in the end regardless but his way perhaps some might survive and the red lyrium/blight would be gone. If he'd said that, we could have helped. Perhaps researched possible alternatives whilst he was putting his ritual together. Instead he left everyone in the dark and then it ends up going wrong as a result. The only reason I can see why he wouldn't do this is because if we know there are no alternatives... well that's going to suck even more because you spend years trying to find solutions, forming alliances, forging friendships and relationships, and the result is well you are all going to die anyway sorry, or even worse, perhaps he will even change his mind about the nature of the world and it's people. Perhaps it's easier for him to just force himself to detach himself from civilization and people, and embrace his role as a villain while dealing with the consequences of the inhumane actions he sees as an obligation. A lot of people, especially those who build something of a life left in ruins (like Thedas currently is after the creation of the Veil), would rather fight against the inevitable, even if it's pointless in the end. It is arrogance to assume they would all want to live in the ignorance of the dream and that's where Solas is wrong. Maybe he knows it to some extent but doesn't want to admit it to himself because then his self imposed penance would have to be switched out with something else. Do not go gentle into that good night, [...] Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 13, 2024 21:09:53 GMT
I mean, aside from trust issues, there's a question whether he even CAN tell us, or whether the threat would be so abstract to creatures unfamiliar with ancient magic that trying to explain it to them would be like talking in another language. We don't really know if things Solas is fighting against are truly beyond mortal comprehension (he seems to think that), but we may have to accept that it may indeed be the case. He could have still, oh what’s the word oh yeah, TRIED! I know he thinks the modern races aren’t even people, but it’s amazing how you can explain super complex things in simple terms. That's the thing - I think a lot of his frustration with modern people stems from the fact that he indeed tried, and it didn't work. However, I disagree that everything super complex can be explained in simple terms, especially considering that even IRL there exists parts of reality so baffling that even our complex language and symbols break apart when trying to describe them. And all of that assuming that - for whatever reason - Solas/Mythal (who also refused to answet similar questions) CAN even tell us certain things, especially that we know from story with Andruil that even knowing certain things can corrupt a person.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 13, 2024 21:14:24 GMT
I doubt we'll just let (possibly blighted) Elven gods rampage freely throughout Thedas We know from the Thedas Calls trailer 6 months ago that the male one wants to be worshiped (*our reign of peace and comfort*).
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 13, 2024 21:20:10 GMT
He could have still, oh what’s the word oh yeah, TRIED! I know he thinks the modern races aren’t even people, but it’s amazing how you can explain super complex things in simple terms. That's the thing - I think a lot of his frustration with modern people stems from the fact that he indeed tried, and it didn't work.
However, I disagree that everything super complex can be explained in simple terms, especially considering that even IRL there exists parts of reality so baffling that even our complex language and symbols break apart when trying to describe them. And all of that assuming that - for whatever reason - Solas/Mythal (who also refused to answet similar questions) CAN even tell us certain things, especially that we know from story with Andruil that even knowing certain things can corrupt a person. And then he joined the Inquisition and met the best damn people who, despite their great differences, will come together to save the world.
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Post by lk13 on Jun 13, 2024 21:22:37 GMT
We know from the Thedas Calls trailer 6 months ago that the male one wants to be worshiped (*our reign of peace and comfort*).
Oh sure, but I wonder what might happen to those who are not particularly inclined to accept that reign of peace and comfort
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Post by azarhal on Jun 13, 2024 21:27:59 GMT
We know from the Thedas Calls trailer 6 months ago that the male one wants to be worshiped (*our reign of peace and comfort*).
Oh sure, but I wonder what might happen to those who are not particularly inclined to accept that reign of peace and comfort Nothing that different than what Solas had planned for them I bet.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 13, 2024 21:42:40 GMT
I've made that argument before, so I'm just going to paste it: Sometimes telling truth at a wrong time can have a detrimental effect. Also - one has to consider that that this is likely NOT something easily discussed. We're potentially talking about an easily corrupting power that may even have its own sentience and a world in which even just knowing certain things may magically corrupt a person (and Andruil was a god-like being). So far Solas (and Mythal) remain probably some of the very few who know something big and they seem super-determined to keep it a secret, for what it looks to be the protection of the world. And assuming that we're just ready for this knowledge, with little to no preparation, doesn't seem to me as any less problematic than Solas's supposed condescension. I mean, it's not like we didn't get a pretty substantial warning about biting more than we can chew in DAI. He had 8 years to come up with a way to put all of it into words and find the right moment to talk to the people that have proven are trustworthy enough to be told and won't betray him, though. At the start of this game it seems that everyone is still under the impression he's doing it because he wants to bring back the world of the ancient elves, so I'm going to infer he hasn't even tried. Not a good look for him. When your friends are desperate to pull you back from the brink and plead and beg with you but you refuse constantly, you don't get to be angry when they stop asking and take decisive action. At the start of this game it seems that everyone is still under the impression he's doing it because he wants to bring back the world of the ancient elves, so I'm going to infer he hasn't even tried. Not a good look for him. When your friends are desperate to pull you back from the brink and plead and beg with you but you refuse constantly, you don't get to be angry when they stop asking and take decisive action. You still didn't address the possibility that the knowledge he withholds isn't so easily shared for reasons that are potentially esoteric in nature (curse, compulsion, corruption). In this regard no amount of years is relevant, because the thing can't really be "put into words", regardless how trustworthy (and sharp) your friends are (which may as well be reasons for Solas to want to protect them from "fate he wouldn't wish on an enemy", as he told Cole). I don't really know it is the case - but it appears that the knowledge Solas (and Mythal) posses is literally so dangerous that they intend to take it to their graves with them. Can it be explained through *any* means, maybe available in DAVe? Perhaps. But that doesn't mean that such option was present before.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 13, 2024 21:49:00 GMT
That's the thing - I think a lot of his frustration with modern people stems from the fact that he indeed tried, and it didn't work.
However, I disagree that everything super complex can be explained in simple terms, especially considering that even IRL there exists parts of reality so baffling that even our complex language and symbols break apart when trying to describe them. And all of that assuming that - for whatever reason - Solas/Mythal (who also refused to answet similar questions) CAN even tell us certain things, especially that we know from story with Andruil that even knowing certain things can corrupt a person. And then he joined the Inquisition and met the best damn people who, despite their great differences, will come together to save the world. From Corypheus, yes. Question is whether they can tackle challenges greater than Corypheus? Solas seems to harbor some deeply buried shred of hope that they may be the 'free radical' that may change the course of fate by sheer force of will/luck/unique quality (which is why he let Inky live and chase after him), but as he said in Inquisition - he isn't so much of a gambler anymore. Because it seems to not have worked in the past and it cost him (and the world) greatly.
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Post by biggydx on Jun 13, 2024 21:50:21 GMT
Done! My team handles this stuff so I let them know 😊 Will the game allow a ruthless playthrough? I swear to god, if Luke and his team added Heartbreaker difficulty to the game...
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 13, 2024 22:07:53 GMT
Will the game allow a ruthless playthrough? I swear to god, if Luke and his team added Heartbreaker difficulty to the game... What if there's one beyond that? ...the Brainmelter!
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Jun 13, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
I still have questions...
So let's say it is Rook's actions that bring the old gods back into the world. Ok, let's grant that. Still, this would never have happened to Rook had not Solas decided to perform a very dangerous ritual that he didn't have enough trust in anyone to have them vet his plans.
Solas is responsible for the fade and all but is it his right to fix it? Is it really his responsibility and even more importantly: DOES THEDAS NEED FIXING? I get it there are demons, there are blights, there are bad things but there are also unified and concerted efforts to manage those grievances. The Inquisition patched up a bad situation that was created largely because Solas had a bad plan that went wrong.
I still have questions...
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Post by Grog Muffins on Jun 13, 2024 22:37:09 GMT
He had 8 years to come up with a way to put all of it into words and find the right moment to talk to the people that have proven are trustworthy enough to be told and won't betray him, though. At the start of this game it seems that everyone is still under the impression he's doing it because he wants to bring back the world of the ancient elves, so I'm going to infer he hasn't even tried. Not a good look for him. When your friends are desperate to pull you back from the brink and plead and beg with you but you refuse constantly, you don't get to be angry when they stop asking and take decisive action. At the start of this game it seems that everyone is still under the impression he's doing it because he wants to bring back the world of the ancient elves, so I'm going to infer he hasn't even tried. Not a good look for him. When your friends are desperate to pull you back from the brink and plead and beg with you but you refuse constantly, you don't get to be angry when they stop asking and take decisive action. You still didn't address the possibility that the knowledge he withholds isn't so easily shared for reasons that are potentially esoteric in nature (curse, compulsion, corruption). In this regard no amount of years is relevant, because the thing can't really be "put into words", regardless how trustworthy (and sharp) your friends are (which may as well be reasons for Solas to want to protect them from "fate he wouldn't wish on an enemy", as he told Cole). I don't really know it is the case - but it appears that the knowledge Solas (and Mythal) posses is literally so dangerous that they intend to take it to their graves with them. Can it be explained through *any* means, maybe available in DAVe? Perhaps. But that doesn't mean that such option was present before. Doubt on the esoteric nature of whatever threat he thinks he's sparing the world from can't be explained in words. Let's remember we're not talking about a game that has unknowable Eldritch abominations that cause madness if someone even thinks about them. So far, everything we've encountered has been possible to be described and explained, even if only in small doses due to lack of knowledge at the time. Titans? Awe inspiring creatures due to their vastness in size and power, sure, but the mystery around understanding them is mostly due to no knowledge existing and people like Dagna and Valta flailing in the dark until they do gain some knowledge and understanding. The Evanuris? Not gods, extremely powerful mages but who present very mortal qualities and negatives. The Blight was the only thing that started out as Eldritch-adjacent in DAO but it's become pretty much a disease/poison, possibly akin to the rot of a corpse, if it started from Titans, not a sentient force. At most it is used as a medium for compulsions by others but I wouldn't say that it's something that can't be put into words. As for Solas maybe wanting to do it but a literal compulsion or curse is making the words die in his mouth, he's made absolutely no indication anything of the sort is happening, that's speculation for which I'm not sure what your basis is.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 13, 2024 22:52:20 GMT
I still have questions... So let's say it is Rook's actions that bring the old gods back into the world. Ok, let's grant that. Still, this would never have happened to Rook had not Solas decided to perform a very dangerous ritual that he didn't have enough trust in anyone to have them vet his plans. Solas is responsible for the fade and all but is it his right to fix it? Is it really his responsibility and even more importantly: DOES THEDAS NEED FIXING? I get it there are demons, there are blights, there are bad things but there are also unified and concerted efforts to manage those grievances. The Inquisition patched up a bad situation that was created largely because Solas had a bad plan that went wrong. I still have questions... Perhaps because Solas is the only person that can fix it, or fulfill a specific task? Not just because of knowledge he possesses, but some sort of power he has? You know... kinda like Inquisitor during DAI? Someone, who - for a time - possessed power not even an elven god had. The Veil is Solas' creation after all; he knows how it works and what can undo it. He also possesses magic and knowledge probably unavailable to anyone else - and capability to wield it. The dude is literally from a different world, or at least a different time period, back when world was very different. Also... there are clues suggesting that Thedas may have an expiration date. You say that Rook's actions would've never happened had not Solas decided to perform a very dangerous ritual - that's fair. But Solas himself appears to be acting because *something is coming*. What it is, we don't yet know. But it has forced Solas to awaken when his state was still weakened - like he couldn't wait any longer. And he has comments, like when he's discussing Wardens and says things like "they've bought us some time - I will grant them that" Bought us some time from what??
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 13, 2024 23:06:17 GMT
I'm not going to be at the Q&A, so could someone else please ask about the mage Specializations and whether the Inquisitor's love interest will be making an appearance?
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Post by biggydx on Jun 13, 2024 23:06:26 GMT
I swear to god, if Luke and his team added Heartbreaker difficulty to the game... What if there's one beyond that? ...the Brainmelter! Yeah... I dont need that much sponginess
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Post by smilesja on Jun 13, 2024 23:06:50 GMT
You know if Solas just told Varric his plan, perhaps things would've been a lot different. But instead, he sounded callous treating mass death as trivial which makes me believe that Solas is no better than the Elven Gods he rebelled against. The Inquisitor had many opportunites to change his perspective but he still trudged through with his plan that would kill millions.
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