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Post by Frost on Jun 16, 2024 17:14:35 GMT
The way it sounds from this discussion is that they designed combat around warriors and rogues, and gutted mages (only 3 spells that are secondary to attacking with a weapon). I wish I had asked the question about the number of spells mages can use in combat at the Q&A, so that I could know if it really is only 3 spells for mages. What do you mean with 'secondary to attacking with a weapon?'. There's zero chances the mages will have more then 3 active spells. We might get more 'spells' in part of the action moveset, like a Winter's Grasp in place, hypothetically, to the Rogue's Spinning Blades of Twin Fangs shown in the opening, if the theory on how they implemented the mages' action toolkit is correct, but I don't see them doubling the number of active slots for one class, and they'd have definitely mentioned that when talking about the 3 slots. This is what I mean by being designed around attacking with a weapon: Mass Effect is a shooter, so its combat is designed around guns and then there are also extra abilities you can use, which works well for a shooter. For DA I think this could translate well for warriors and rogues because instead of guns it would be swords, daggers, or your weapon of choice + abilities. It wouldn't work for traditional mages because their core combat isn't hitting people with sticks (weapons). It is using a variety of spells, so having only 3 spells would be gutting their core combat. That's also why I am not as sure as you that there's zero chances mages will have more then 3 active spells.
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 16, 2024 17:38:06 GMT
What do you mean with 'secondary to attacking with a weapon?'. There's zero chances the mages will have more then 3 active spells. We might get more 'spells' in part of the action moveset, like a Winter's Grasp in place, hypothetically, to the Rogue's Spinning Blades of Twin Fangs shown in the opening, if the theory on how they implemented the mages' action toolkit is correct, but I don't see them doubling the number of active slots for one class, and they'd have definitely mentioned that when talking about the 3 slots. This is what I mean by being designed around attacking with a weapon: Mass Effect is a shooter, so its combat is designed around guns and then there are also extra abilities you can use, which works well for a shooter. For DA I think this could translate well for warriors and rogues because instead of guns it would be swords, daggers, or your weapon of choice + abilities. It wouldn't work for traditional mages because their core combat isn't hitting people with sticks (weapons). It is using a variety of spells, so having only 3 spells would be gutting their core combat. That's also why I am not as sure as you that there's zero chances mages will have more then 3 active spells. I get your point, but I seriously think they'd have mentioned that already if not the case. And from DA2 onwards, they worked on the classes based on the same pool of resources and talents/spells available, I don't see them shifting this time around. It'd be an unfair advantage to have more abilities available, considering they also get all the additions in the action part of the gameplay. I do agree with you that, if they basically reskinned mages from the rogue and warriors' baseline, this wouldn't work, but I do think most of the action-based moves that you'd be able to use as a mage would be centered of the use of spells you don't have access to in the active spell list. It might not work well, but I don't think the moves in their action toolkit, like the ones the rogue shown in the action based part (so aside the one active talent Rook could use), will be melee attacks with sticks. But we'll see. I don't mind being wrong on this part, it's just that I feel, like I said above, that they'd have talked about this already.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 16, 2024 17:38:31 GMT
What do you mean with 'secondary to attacking with a weapon?'. There's zero chances the mages will have more then 3 active spells. We might get more 'spells' in part of the action moveset, like a Winter's Grasp in place, hypothetically, to the Rogue's Spinning Blades of Twin Fangs shown in the opening, if the theory on how they implemented the mages' action toolkit is correct, but I don't see them doubling the number of active slots for one class, and they'd have definitely mentioned that when talking about the 3 slots. This is what I mean by being designed around attacking with a weapon: Mass Effect is a shooter, so its combat is designed around guns and then there are also extra abilities you can use, which works well for a shooter. For DA I think this could translate well for warriors and rogues because instead of guns it would be swords, daggers, or your weapon of choice + abilities. It wouldn't work for traditional (not arcane warrior) mages because their core combat isn't hitting people with sticks (weapons). It is using a variety of spells, so having only 3 spells would be gutting their core combat. That's also why I am not as sure as you that there's zero chances mages will have more then 3 active spells. There is zero chance that mage have more than 3 spells shortcuts, it was confirmed in the Q&A that Rook had 3 ability shortcuts. You might not like having a base kit of spells you can't swap out, but it's totally possible to do contextual/hit-combo/dodge/parry based spell combat. BioWare already played with contextual actions that in DA2 with Mage staff having a multi-hit chain and swapping to hitting enemy with the aft once in melee range. It's not even new, just more developed and polished.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 16, 2024 18:35:41 GMT
Do we know what the far right icon is in the combat screenshots we have? There's one for the Warrior & Mage, but not one for the Rogue (or in the trailer). Which makes me think it's an ability you need to choose. Since it's right next to the Health Bar & Healing Potions, I'm wondering if it's "Second Wind" style ability to replenish your Class-Specific Momentum.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 16, 2024 18:50:28 GMT
Do we know what the far right icon is in the combat screenshots we have? There's one for the Warrior & Mage, but not one for the Rogue (or in the trailer). Which makes me think it's an ability you need to choose. Since it's right next to the Health Bar & Healing Potions, I'm wondering if it's "Second Wind" style ability to replenish your Class-Specific Momentum. It's possibly a quick action button or a tleast that would be my guess
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Post by biggydx on Jun 16, 2024 19:17:34 GMT
Let's talk loot for a second. Loot drops... how often, mundane, rare, epic, maybe legendary or Uber uniques.
Diablo 4 devs were surprised about players complaining about the length of time to gets some drops. In D2 it sometimes took multiple seasons to get some items. IN D4 (the latest), devs assumed players wanted D2 lengths. Surprise, surprise. Players tastes have changed since then. Thus the complaints when some items were not dropped in one season.
In DA:V, have players' tastes also changed regarding loot drops? We're not Shard hunting anymore. That was one big complaint from DA:I. Have Bio devs made sufficient and engaging loot drops with a 'reasonable" frequency? I want meaningful loot and don't want to wait until the last ACT for these items to be made available by the game. Is Bellara the one to take with us when exploring? Is she the catalyst we need to find these rare items? Bio has verbal diehard regarding curated this and curated that. But, where is the loot?
That's one fun I want to experience.
I imagine the loot system is going to based on Dragon Age Multiplayer's loot system (specifically - during the tail end of its updates), but with more enhancements. In it, we were getting items that could trigger other abilities whenever we procced a certain effect (ex. An accessory could give you the Hidden Blades ability on a percentage of Critical Hits landed). Based on comments made in the recent Q&A, about having abilities on armor, I suspect they'll be expanding upon this system. Luke Barrett, who leads development of the games various gameplay systems, has also stated that they were an avid Path of Exile (PoE) enthusiast (a loot-based ARPG - akin to Diablo), and have stated that itemization in Dragon Age needs improvement. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's some inspiration drawn from that system as well. Hell, the skill tree prototype we've seen may be one of the outcomes of that inspiration, as PoE had VERY extensive skill trees.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 16, 2024 19:32:27 GMT
Do we know what the far right icon is in the combat screenshots we have? There's one for the Warrior & Mage, but not one for the Rogue (or in the trailer). Which makes me think it's an ability you need to choose. Since it's right next to the Health Bar & Healing Potions, I'm wondering if it's "Second Wind" style ability to replenish your Class-Specific Momentum. I thought it was the weapon swap button since it's showing their current weapon and the Warrior has two disabled skills on its shortcuts that looks like it belong to a two-handed weapon (at least the middle one does).
And looking at the official website, I just realize there are two version of the Warrior wheel screenshot. Only highlight Harding's talen, the other Bellara's.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 16, 2024 20:22:54 GMT
My understanding is the rogue probably didn't get theirs because it was early game.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 16, 2024 20:45:59 GMT
This is what I mean by being designed around attacking with a weapon: Mass Effect is a shooter, so its combat is designed around guns and then there are also extra abilities you can use, which works well for a shooter. For DA I think this could translate well for warriors and rogues because instead of guns it would be swords, daggers, or your weapon of choice + abilities. It wouldn't work for traditional mages because their core combat isn't hitting people with sticks (weapons). It is using a variety of spells, so having only 3 spells would be gutting their core combat. That's also why I am not as sure as you that there's zero chances mages will have more then 3 active spells. You could play ME3 as a biotic without using guns, just relying on your powers. ME3 actually fixed how nerfed biotics were in ME2 where cooldowns were so long that you ended up just using your guns 90% of the time and it was boring AF. In ME3 biotics were OP and I would love for DAV to be similar with primers and detonators. Which would make a mage duo super effective like in ME3, which was easy mode with two biotics.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Jun 16, 2024 20:57:17 GMT
I asked myself why the radial wheel with limited abilities don't bother me as much in ME as it does with DA, and I think I came to the conclusion it's because of ME's gunplay. Aside from the guns in and off themselves offering a lot of variety in how to play (5 different types, and then the guns themselves functioning differently), you're also engaged because you can use things like head-shots to increase damage, and that makes for a more dynamic playstyle. I think what worries me is that you likely won't find that when using swords or daggers (maybe for the ranged options, but those seem somewhat limited) so what I'm afraid of is that it will easily feel like running up to the enemy and just mashing the same button over and over and occasionally using an ability.
I obviously don't know if it's like this, hopefully I'm very wrong, but I think that's where my apprehension stems from. I'm guessing they have thought of this already, and that there's something to compensate, but until I see more details I can't really envision it. I'm a worrier by nature, I'm trying not to though lol.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 16, 2024 21:42:43 GMT
My understanding is the rogue probably didn't get theirs because it was early game. The screenshot from above was from a higher level Rogue, not the trailer.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jun 16, 2024 21:53:19 GMT
I believe it was faction based. Yes, but it sounded like they were passive bonuses. The Shadow Dragons get a damage bonus vs Venatori, for instance. Yes. And it's probably something like: Shadow Dragons: bonus against Venatori Veil Jumpers: bonus against demons/Fade spirits Mourn Watchers: bonus against undead Grey Wardens: bonus against Darkspawn ... and so forth.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 16, 2024 21:57:35 GMT
I thought it was the weapon swap button since it's showing their current weapon and the Warrior has two disabled skills on its shortcuts that looks like it belong to a two-handed weapon (at least the middle one does). It might be, but it would have to be melee-only then, which would be strange. And the higher level rogue not having second set seems odd. If it was weapon swap, I would have expected it to be a static icon for everyone, esp. since all classes have both ranged and melee options from the start. Also, as it's combat-related, I'd expect to see the icon nestled in with the ability icon cluster in the middle, rather than off to the side.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 16, 2024 22:20:32 GMT
My understanding is the rogue probably didn't get theirs because it was early game. The screenshot from above was from a higher level Rogue, not the trailer. So are those floating swords off to the right like the First Aid vases in the game? If you desperately need to stab someone in a darkened street and/or survive said stabbing... Minrathous has got you covered.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 16, 2024 23:08:56 GMT
Yes, but it sounded like they were passive bonuses. The Shadow Dragons get a damage bonus vs Venatori, for instance. Yes. And it's probably something like: Shadow Dragons: bonus against Venatori Veil Jumpers: bonus against demons/Fade spirits Mourn Watchers: bonus against undead Grey Wardens: bonus against Darkspawn ... and so forth. I believe they said each faction has *3* bonuses. One will probably be a damage buff vs an enemy faction as you mentioned. They said one of the buffs was 1 extra potion, so I imagine the second set of passives will be related to class combat, like momentum generation, quiver size, health, etc. A third will probably be non-combat, like vendor discounts, enchant costs, etc
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jun 16, 2024 23:10:00 GMT
I could see them incorporating some active mage spells into basic combat commands. Like, Energy Barrage are added into heavy staff attacks or just critical staff attacks. Fade Step could be included in dodge/movement command, like the shadow dodge in rogue Rook shown in the gameplay. Even Mind Blast could be an upgrade path for parrying/blocking. For balance purposes, there could be internal cooldowns on these special moves, so virtually these would function like active abilities.
melee attacks require strength... something mages are poor at. Or, has Bio revamped that Mage Class to something I no longer understand?
Both DAO and DAI had melee-oriented Mage specialisations, and we know that DAV has one as well. It seems like they're going to make melee magic a viable option from Level One this time possibly through whatever the alternative weapon to staff is? Anyway, playing a ranged Mage should still be an option, since Rogues still have archery. (According to Brenon on the Discord, archery is not only a viable choice for Rogues but currently a bit overpowered. I wonder if that's what Trick Weekes was talking about on Bluesky last week when they said they had sadly reported to the relevant parties the build they're playing needs nerfing ...)
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 16, 2024 23:12:40 GMT
Yes, but it sounded like they were passive bonuses. The Shadow Dragons get a damage bonus vs Venatori, for instance. Yes. And it's probably something like: Shadow Dragons: bonus against Venatori Veil Jumpers: bonus against demons/Fade spirits Mourn Watchers: bonus against undead Grey Wardens: bonus against Darkspawn ... and so forth. Yeah that' s how I'm imagining it each faction has a bonus against an enemy type you'll be fighting in the game. And th ebonus yo uge tdepens don which faction you're part of
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 16, 2024 23:15:21 GMT
In DA2 you could wack someone with your staff auto attacks and still deal magic damage. In DAI you could do that and also conjure a lightsaber to hit someone as Knight Enchanter. Neither required strength at the time, so why is it an issue now?
I imagine one or two mage abilities will require you to be in melee range. Maybe they could be used at range but do something in addition to their base effects (if talented into) if you cast it at melee range. I believe I saw Neve floating backwards and inflicting a slow effect on the enemy that was near her. I imagine that's the Fade Step ability reworked as the dodge spell for mages that can apply a debuff to targets at your exit point.
A fun idea is Meteor having an upgrade to make it land at your position after a delay (or even immediately if you take no damage) for some bonus effect.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jun 16, 2024 23:19:17 GMT
Yes. And it's probably something like: Shadow Dragons: bonus against Venatori Veil Jumpers: bonus against demons/Fade spirits Mourn Watchers: bonus against undead Grey Wardens: bonus against Darkspawn ... and so forth. I believe they said each faction has *3* bonuses. One will probably be a damage buff vs an enemy faction as you mentioned. They said one of the buffs was 1 extra potion, so I imagine the second set of passives will be related to class combat, like momentum generation, quiver size, health, etc. A third will probably be non-combat, like vendor discounts, enchant costs, etc Niiice... can't wait to hear more about factions. Rook's potential surnames, for instance, I'm very curious about.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 16, 2024 23:21:25 GMT
I need a release date so I can plan my Dragon Age trilogy *canon* rerun....
I think I'll go with Cousland Warrior, Blood Mage Hawke, and .... hm... maybe I should go Rogue just for variety in Inquisition idk.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 16, 2024 23:22:20 GMT
I wonder if they kept so shtum about some things in the qanda because they didn't want to preempt the magazine reveals later this week.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jun 16, 2024 23:42:56 GMT
I need a release date so I can plan my Dragon Age trilogy *canon* rerun.... I think I'll go with Cousland Warrior, Blood Mage Hawke, and .... hm... maybe I should go Rogue just for variety in Inquisition idk. I really need to stop fretting about what kind of Rook I'm playing in my so far entirely hypothetical ideal world state. (The entire point of which is that I'm not even touching it until either we get a DAO remaster or the entire series is finished. But I'm already pretty sure I'm going dual dagger Brosca Warden, Force Mage Hawke and Qunari Reaver Inquisitor. So logically Rook will be an elf, but I don't know if I should go Mage and romance Harding or archer Rouge and romance literally anyone else. Which is a completely absurd thing to try and decide before the game even comes out, but here I am thinking about it anyway.)
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ewigDunkelheit
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Jun 17, 2024 0:15:38 GMT
I need a release date so I can plan my Dragon Age trilogy *canon* rerun.... I think I'll go with Cousland Warrior, Blood Mage Hawke, and .... hm... maybe I should go Rogue just for variety in Inquisition idk. I really need to stop fretting about what kind of Rook I'm playing in my so far entirely hypothetical ideal world state. (The entire point of which is that I'm not even touching it until either we get a DAO remaster or the entire series is finished. But I'm already pretty sure I'm going dual dagger Brosca Warden, Force Mage Hawke and Qunari Reaver Inquisitor. So logically Rook will be an elf, but I don't know if I should go Mage and romance Harding or archer Rouge and romance literally anyone else. Which is a completely absurd thing to try and decide before the game even comes out, but here I am thinking about it anyway.)
Not the intent of your musings, but go Mage and romance Harding!
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jun 17, 2024 0:55:07 GMT
I really need to stop fretting about what kind of Rook I'm playing in my so far entirely hypothetical ideal world state. (The entire point of which is that I'm not even touching it until either we get a DAO remaster or the entire series is finished. But I'm already pretty sure I'm going dual dagger Brosca Warden, Force Mage Hawke and Qunari Reaver Inquisitor. So logically Rook will be an elf, but I don't know if I should go Mage and romance Harding or archer Rouge and romance literally anyone else. Which is a completely absurd thing to try and decide before the game even comes out, but here I am thinking about it anyway.)
Not the intent of your musings, but go Mage and romance Harding!
The only thing holding me back is that my DAI romance is almost certainly going to be Sera, so do I really want to romance the archer roguegirl two games in a row, no matter how cute they both are in different ways? But on the other hand: DWARF ROMANCE!!! And Harding is a redhead and I'll already have romanced Morrigan and Sera, so that would complete the set ... (DA2 romance will definitely be Fenris, who doesn't really have a hair colour, but does at least help complete the Mage/Warrior/Rogue trinity.)
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Post by sni2 on Jun 17, 2024 0:59:50 GMT
Yes, but it sounded like they were passive bonuses. The Shadow Dragons get a damage bonus vs Venatori, for instance. Yes. And it's probably something like: Shadow Dragons: bonus against Venatori Veil Jumpers: bonus against demons/Fade spirits Mourn Watchers: bonus against undead Grey Wardens: bonus against Darkspawn ... and so forth. Here is the thing: the biggest mistery is probably the Lords of Fortune. Maybe the Crows will give a bonus in critical, or something. But the LoF is a mystery.
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