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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 9, 2024 18:41:24 GMT
I usually don't have a problem with raising relationship level with companions but if it's the only way to level up them, then I'm definitely not a fan of this decision. It will force you into being friendly with every companion, even if it doesn't make sense for your Rook. Unless DAVe will have similar system to DA2, ofc, maybe not friendship/rivalry, but something else.
Another game w ecan't completely dismiss is Avowed though as whilst it's no ton m yradar as I don' treall yplay Bethesda RPG's much it likel ywill pull some people in. Avowed is not Bethesda's game tho. It's a simila rtype though that's what I was getting a tand it's coming from the Xbox family of games whic hboth Bethedsa and Avowed devs Obsidian belong to.
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Ice-Quinn
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jul 9, 2024 19:18:04 GMT
On the topic of companions and friendship, another thing to consider is the success of the Citadel DLC. It worked for a reason- we’d spent three games with these people, ME3 was dark and the stakes high, Citadel felt like a breath of fresh air.
MEA (in my opinion) suffered because of it. I had fully embraced the concept of an inexperienced Ryder, a new setting and squadmates and all of it, but it almost felt like a big Citadel DLC. The tone was off, the humor forced and overkill (and this is coming from someone who loves BioWare humor and having a laugh in general). Liam and Cora were two colossal idiots. And you could not get inside that Mako without hearing a funny quip. It was “the Backyardigans in space”.
When you’re just checking boxes and repeating formulas, that’s where art (which videogames are) goes to die.
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 9, 2024 20:13:44 GMT
Regarding the GameInformer Article about relationships. I find it bemusing to observe they wanted to make the relationships feel more real in DAI by removing the track bar. By connecting it to literally how you level companions up, they have made it even more of an obvious game mechanic. Wouldn't this create the issue that I always have to bring the people I'm friends with even if they're strategically a poor choice for the battle? Now we're buttering them up so they're useful in battle. Not that I was being strategic anyway but I'm not the min maxer some folks love to be. I think folks are overthinking this. I've never found it hard to max out everyone's relationship meter in DA:O or DA2. You don't even need to bring them around often or suck up to them. This to me just sounds like they're tracking companion progression through your relationship with them rather than XP.
Define relationship then. You see, once I settle on my A Team, the rest are only used for specific missions. So, the two or four chars I use most often get their skills unlocked faster than the others. Unless, chatting everyone in the Lighthouse assures even skill points unlocks. I see this as a "forced" mechanic or limit on player agency. I wish a question is asked to clear this point with Bio.
BG3's simple mechanic of leveling up the whole team is much preferred.
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 9, 2024 20:19:59 GMT
Hm... how good will the banter be with two companions? Well at least there won't be any doubt who they will talk to if at all. In DAI I would include a particular fourth party member in the hope of getting their dialogue but it did seem to be rather pot luck if you did depending on who else was in the party and if they got priority.
Why bother with the banter if chitchatting at the Lighthouse reveals each character's "secrets" / background / history? I mean I just love the banter between Alistair and Morrigan. ... the barbs! , innuendoes...
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sloth
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Post by sloth on Jul 9, 2024 20:27:09 GMT
speaking of companions, I've been replaying DA:O and one thing I noticed is that the companions often ask about the Warden's life or opinions about things. They demonstrate to be interested about the protagonist and it shows in random moments like, for example, Alistair asking for Warden opinions about each companion, or Leliana asking a City Elf Warden in the Party Camp about his life in the Alienage and, depending on how the conversation goes, she apologizes for bringing up the topic. It means that is not just the "protagonist job" to get to know about his companions, it is not always "his job" to be thinking twice before saying something. Considering immersion, that is something good. Can't remember if it happens in DA2 or DAI, but is cool to see in DA:O the companions wanting to be closer to the protagonist, and not just the other way around. What I mean with that is: for me, it's kind of a worrying point for Veilguard, since apparently the focus is in the companions. That is not actually a bad thing, on the contrary. But since they've been talking about The Veilguard being like a "found family", does that mean Rook "will be watching firsthand his companions acting like a family", or will Rook be participating in these "found family" dynamics? Is Rook sharing his spotlight with the companions in a way that the companions are going to be the "true protagonists"? The developers did say that we will be able to "adjust" our background through dialogues, maybe it will happen while answering our companions questions? Not sure if it was mentioned in the Game Informer articles since I've been avoiding to read those but don't know... would be really cool to see the companions wanting to get to know Rook and be our friends, and not just something like "well, since Rook came to talk to me that many times, I guess I'm his friend..."
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 9, 2024 20:31:47 GMT
Regarding the GameInformer Article about relationships. I find it bemusing to observe they wanted to make the relationships feel more real in DAI by removing the track bar. By connecting it to literally how you level companions up, they have made it even more of an obvious game mechanic. Wouldn't this create the issue that I always have to bring the people I'm friends with even if they're strategically a poor choice for the battle? Now we're buttering them up so they're useful in battle. Not that I was being strategic anyway but I'm not the min maxer some folks love to be.
That's my point. If Rook finds a companion's skill set particularly useful, It's almost guaranteed that companion will be selected more often. On the other hand, if the skill set changes to meet new threats, then other companions must be chosen. However, I propose that bringing the "new companion(s)" up to speed may be problematic as these guys are behind the skill level curve of the others but mission difficulty keeps increasing with new missions.
Or, Bio hasn't explained how this works very well.
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Post by Gwydden on Jul 9, 2024 20:40:24 GMT
speaking of companions, I've been replaying DA:O and one thing I noticed is that the companions often ask about the Warden's life or opinions about things. Wouldn't you know, I was just talking about this on another thread! Companions being proactive and showing interest in or concern for the protagonist is great, both because that feels more like a two-way relationship and because it provides opportunities to roleplay.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Jul 9, 2024 20:54:24 GMT
Can't remember if it happens in DA2 or DAI, but is cool to see in DA:O the companions wanting to be closer to the protagonist, and not just the other way around. In DAI, Cassandra ask about your past to get to know you better in one of her early Haven convo.
The rest don't really do so. Varric does ask you if you are ok thought after the intro.
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Post by jennica on Jul 9, 2024 21:26:37 GMT
Can't remember if it happens in DA2 or DAI, but is cool to see in DA:O the companions wanting to be closer to the protagonist, and not just the other way around. In DAI, Cassandra ask about your past to get to know you better in one of her early Haven convo.
The rest don't really do so. Varric does ask you if you are ok thought after the intro.
At some point Vivenne also asks if Inquisitor is alright, as far as i remember.
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 9, 2024 21:50:08 GMT
speaking of companions, I've been replaying DA:O and one thing I noticed is that the companions often ask about the Warden's life or opinions about things. Wouldn't you know, I was just talking about this on another thread! Companions being proactive and showing interest in or concern for the protagonist is great, both because that feels more like a two-way relationship and because it provides opportunities to roleplay.
But the protagonist's answer is limited and contrived to what the wheel allows. It's not as if you type your own answer. There were many a times when the selections offered were not what I wanted to say.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 9, 2024 22:10:08 GMT
I don't know on this whole thing I just can't imagine BioWare backsliding on this though the rest of you are certainly starting to worry me.
The problem with Origins's system was the meter and the gifts made things pretty contradictory at times and with the positive meter unlocking more options within the game, and dictating some of the actions your companions took at the end, it made it so you had to constantly watch it and do things specifically in regards to fill up or diminish the meter which often left role playing stifled. Turns out I am really bad at limiting myself in such a way so I often ended up with scenarios I didn't quite want.
DA 2 fixed this by allowing for more flexibility with the 'rivalry' system but it still made it so you had to meter watch in order to try and get certain thigns you wanted instead of naturally roleplaying your character. Which again led to some unfortunate scenarios like not wanting to be too much of a dick to Fenris or not supporting his murder spree ended up getting him killed.
Inquisition was perfect because A. no meter, so you didn't have to meter watch. B. this freed the comapnion characterizations to be far more natural as well, I suspect that BioWare also had to write with the meter in mind but not always did it too well. And C. there was plenty of ways to improve your comapnion approval out there if you had to where it really didn't require much, if any, metagaming at all. This all had the result of helping to create very fleshed out characters that while they had their own agendas generally were professional enough to not go out of their way to hate you over a simple disagreement. Role playing and choices were then more role playing and choice based.
With Veilguard the meter is indeed back because people complained that they didn't know where they stood with the companions without one. Fine. Whatever. Everyone made their choice. But the thing is here does it have to be restrictive to roleplaying or just an indicitator of where things stand? I again would be surprised if they back slid towards 2 or Origins system after making such significant strides in getting away from the thing. Which could mean I think if they borrow from anything hopefully its ME 3 whereas it does not matter where their approval sits as long as you do stuff with the companions. And keep in mind as well DA has also made it a habbit of increasing and decreasing approval ratings whether or not your people are in your party at all. Hoping the approval still stays hidden but that the relationship meter is a sum total of everything you do with them.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 9, 2024 23:34:31 GMT
speaking of companions, I've been replaying DA:O and one thing I noticed is that the companions often ask about the Warden's life or opinions about things. They demonstrate to be interested about the protagonist and it shows in random moments like, for example, Alistair asking for Warden opinions about each companion, or Leliana asking a City Elf Warden in the Party Camp about his life in the Alienage and, depending on how the conversation goes, she apologizes for bringing up the topic. It means that is not just the "protagonist job" to get to know about his companions, it is not always "his job" to be thinking twice before saying something. Considering immersion, that is something good. Can't remember if it happens in DA2 or DAI, but is cool to see in DA:O the companions wanting to be closer to the protagonist, and not just the other way around. What I mean with that is: for me, it's kind of a worrying point for Veilguard, since apparently the focus is in the companions. That is not actually a bad thing, on the contrary. But since they've been talking about The Veilguard being like a "found family", does that mean Rook "will be watching firsthand his companions acting like a family", or will Rook be participating in these "found family" dynamics? Is Rook sharing his spotlight with the companions in a way that the companions are going to be the "true protagonists"? The developers did say that we will be able to "adjust" our background through dialogues, maybe it will happen while answering our companions questions? Not sure if it was mentioned in the Game Informer articles since I've been avoiding to read those but don't know... would be really cool to see the companions wanting to get to know Rook and be our friends, and not just something like "well, since Rook came to talk to me that many times, I guess I'm his friend..." I've also noticed that the character "barks" when you select them also changes based on the state of your relationship with them. Of course, it looks like here we won't be able to control them as all.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 9, 2024 23:41:43 GMT
Trick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.social A random gamedev thing I find interesting is that when your job becomes "play the game legally, file bugs, fix bugs that get filed to you" for a while, you get good at playing the game in a way that is subtly different from getting good at playing a game normally.
Because the game is in development, you can't go to Reddit and ask how to do something. You have to ping someone in another department: "How should I be doing this?" Or you find your own strategy that is sometimes what gameplay folks wanted you to do and sometimes makes them make a face.
I'm on a higher difficulty level now, and combat is challenging but feels really rewarding, even if I feel like the person who just knows how to make chords instead of actually playing the piano.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 9, 2024 23:42:24 GMT
Malcolm @themalcolmtent.bsky.social This week marks three years at BioWare for me, which may not sound like much but it's the first time I've stuck at a studio that long in my (slightly tumultuous) 16 years making video games and it means a lot that it's happened at a studio I've wanted to be a part of since day 1.
I was a BW fan long before I joined, back to the KOTOR/NWN/Jade Empire days. When I got hired, part of me was worried I'd be losing something in not getting the magic of being a player and experiencing the games fresh. But seeing the incredible fan response to DAVe has been revelatory
I think we've made something really, really special - something that I know I would love as a fan - and I cannot wait for y'all to get your goblin paws on it. (also Taash and Emmrich are the best, 100% objective fact)
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 10, 2024 0:17:07 GMT
A neat (fan) render of a Lyrium kit popped up today.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2024 0:23:55 GMT
Bio's explanation of "it's a family" or "get to know deep chars" as an excuse to sit down by the fire and chat (at the Lighthouse) is OK but not when it's forced. I'd rather get to know my companions via my travels from point A to B and listen to to banter on the way. Hm... how good will the banter be with two companions
ME1, for example, "forced" you to visit each char after a mission. All I feel is a pain in my arse when doing this. I mean, I want to finish this game in a month not three. DA:V is forcing me to complete this game in "a year". I'm not a chatter box... which this games seems to be.
I'm the opposite. When playing DAO for the first time I was amazed that I just spent 40min just talking to everyone at camp, doing nothing else. It was amazing. I would get all giddy at the prospect of more camp talk unlocking. I live for this shit. Nevermind the combat or even the main plots let's talk about how everyone is doing! You know why the camp was successful? 2 things. The soundtrack. It was nice coming back to camp after a day of fighting the enemies while listening to some nice soothing music. And I didn't have to run around to different spots to go talk to the companions since they were right in eyesight.
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Post by Element Zero on Jul 10, 2024 1:16:41 GMT
I'm an historical arms and armor nerd. Around 99% of the time, weapons and armor in fantasy games is absolute rubbish for people like me. I expect DAV to be the worst in the series in that regard. So crush any hope, you'll be crying 100% guaranteed, lol. So I take it you're excited about Kingdom Come Deliverance 2? I'm sadly skipping this no doubt great RPG franchise because I do NOT like realistic medieval combat. I'm in the don't care about realism camp when it comes to combat or even most other gameplay features. RDR2 was both great and awful in that respect. In my experience too realistic is boring because reality is often kind of underwhelming. I'm baffled how stuff like Farm Simulator is so popular or even worse, Truck Simulator. On the other hand I roll my eyes at JRPGs where people wield swords twice as big as them as if they had no weight at all. Looks stupid. So I guess I'm more in the middle. In fantasy games I usually play a mage so I don't pay too much attention to weapons. Frankly the only games I was totally into the guns and how they handle was Mass Effect. They were just so much fun. Amazing sound design and handling. All played differently. Never been excited about guns again since, lol. Swords? No excitement whatsoever. I just pick what has better stats. I might find one prettier than the other but that's it. Now armor I care about how it looks. NOT how realistic the protection is. My favorite armor of all time is Geralt's default armor in W3. Hottest male armor I've ever seen. Griffin armor? Ugly as sin, never wore it. I generally don't like metal armor in any game. They are always ugly to me So yeah, middle ages and knights are unappealing to me. So yeah, I'm going all fashion Rook! I can't play First Person games. They give me terrible nausea and headaches. If Kingdom Come were third person, I'd definitely try it. I am squarely in the targer audience, in terms of the history nerddom. I'm not sure I'd like the gameplay, even in third person. It's hard to speculate, but I tend to believe that trying to portray "realistic combat" in a game is a lost cause. Real combat is far too complex to ever create a simulator that could be entertaining. I'd love to have a third person action game, historical or fantastical, that used realistic arms and armor. They're way more beautiful and impressive than the nonsensical stuff game devs and Hollywood crews give us. Most game and movie armors would provide nearly zero protection, and many would be truly unwearable in the real world where physics define reality. The same goes for the absurdly weapons that magically attach to characters' backs and never trip them or throw them off balance. I don't want to clutter the thread with my pedantry. 😄 I expect you're correct that DA:TV will feature wildly absurd gear. It's what games nearly always do.
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fistoffiori
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Post by fistoffiori on Jul 10, 2024 5:49:11 GMT
Can't remember if it happens in DA2 or DAI, but is cool to see in DA:O the companions wanting to be closer to the protagonist, and not just the other way around. In DAI, Cassandra ask about your past to get to know you better in one of her early Haven convo.
The rest don't really do so. Varric does ask you if you are ok thought after the intro.
Yeah, I also think one of the best examples is if you're romancing Sam Trainor in ME3, a conversation when they're in bed - it's one of the rare times Shepard shows vulnerability, her fears, and second guesses herself and her leadership skills.
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Post by saandrig on Jul 10, 2024 8:42:13 GMT
Say that to Fenris dying in the third act because my being nice to mages on missions and my being nice to him during conversations kept him close enough to middle that he wasn't locked one direction or another. In subsequent play throughs, I use a guide to find a way to friend him and rival Isabella by carefully selection which missions to bring each on depending on how I know I'll RP. If things don't go in the direction I want, I rather shamelessly change the companion Friend/Rival status around Act 2 through the console commands. This way I bring whoever I want to wherever I want without fear or micromanaging dialogues.
Sometimes I swing it back and forth just to get wildly different reactions.
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Post by saandrig on Jul 10, 2024 8:50:09 GMT
Trick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.socialOr you find your own strategy that is sometimes what gameplay folks wanted you to do and sometimes makes them make a face. What do you mean with "I am not supposed to exploit this neat skill combo to slaughter the encounter in 3 seconds?" Boss phases? What boss phases?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 10, 2024 9:59:20 GMT
speaking of companions, I've been replaying DA:O and one thing I noticed is that the companions often ask about the Warden's life or opinions about things. They demonstrate to be interested about the protagonist and it shows in random moments like, for example, Alistair asking for Warden opinions about each companion, or Leliana asking a City Elf Warden in the Party Camp about his life in the Alienage and, depending on how the conversation goes, she apologizes for bringing up the topic. It means that is not just the "protagonist job" to get to know about his companions, it is not always "his job" to be thinking twice before saying something. Considering immersion, that is something good. Can't remember if it happens in DA2 or DAI, but is cool to see in DA:O the companions wanting to be closer to the protagonist, and not just the other way around. What I mean with that is: for me, it's kind of a worrying point for Veilguard, since apparently the focus is in the companions. That is not actually a bad thing, on the contrary. But since they've been talking about The Veilguard being like a "found family", does that mean Rook "will be watching firsthand his companions acting like a family", or will Rook be participating in these "found family" dynamics? Is Rook sharing his spotlight with the companions in a way that the companions are going to be the "true protagonists"? The developers did say that we will be able to "adjust" our background through dialogues, maybe it will happen while answering our companions questions? Not sure if it was mentioned in the Game Informer articles since I've been avoiding to read those but don't know... would be really cool to see the companions wanting to get to know Rook and be our friends, and not just something like "well, since Rook came to talk to me that many times, I guess I'm his friend..." In DAI you d oa sViv asks abou tyou rtraining if you'er a mage and basically the response is that as a human mag etha tyou were trained in the Ostwick circle or by your clans keepe rif your a Dalish mage.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 10, 2024 10:07:58 GMT
In DAI, Cassandra ask about your past to get to know you better in one of her early Haven convo.
The rest don't really do so. Varric does ask you if you are ok thought after the intro.
Yeah, I also think one of the best examples is if you're romancing Sam Trainor in ME3, a conversation when they're in bed - it's one of the rare times Shepard shows vulnerability, her fears, and second guesses herself and her leadership skills. The yshow those doubts at theend of th egame regardless of wh othey're romancing. The words ae ra bit diffreenen tdepending on wh othe romanc eis bu tessential yth esame idea where the companions dust Shepard down an dhelp prek them up a bit.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 10, 2024 12:25:41 GMT
renni @mournwatchers.bsky.social hi @trickweekes.bsky.social I had a quick question about Taash, I’m not sure if you’ll be able to answer?
Is she a rogue or a warrior? The discord q&a suggests she is a rogue as she can dual wield? But she could be a warrior with Taash-specific dual wielding?
Trick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.social Companions don't have the same class specifics as Rook. Weapons can be different, and skills are unique. Taash and Davrin both have warrior core skills plus special skills the other doesn't get.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 10, 2024 12:28:36 GMT
Trick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.socialA random gamedev thing I find interesting is that when your job becomes "play the game legally, file bugs, fix bugs that get filed to you" for a while, you get good at playing the game in a way that is subtly different from getting good at playing a game normally. Because the game is in development, you can't go to Reddit and ask how to do something. You have to ping someone in another department: "How should I be doing this?" Or you find your own strategy that is sometimes what gameplay folks wanted you to do and sometimes makes them make a face. I'm on a higher difficulty level now, and combat is challenging but feels really rewarding, even if I feel like the person who just knows how to make chords instead of actually playing the piano. Brian J. Audette @bjaudette.bsky.socialSpeaking as a long time identifying Punk ... do you even need more than 3 chords? Just do that combat fast and loud! Trick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.socialI got through some of the trickier fights, but boy howdy I hope nobody in combat ever has to watch the videos of how I did it.
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Post by phoray on Jul 10, 2024 12:43:57 GMT
I always felt the Cullen Romance was very caring. Actively worrying, praying about Inky, giving you lucky charms. And the extra spontaneous hugs when Inky clearly was upset. In this way, the Advisor romance was the best of the 4 I tried (Blackwall, Solas', Cassandra were the others). Cole had some dialogue about how the Inky felt that initially I was irritated by. But when I played a scared, I don't know what I'm doing, Inky? Was perfect.
Origins Camp is indeed great. All close, nice music, shopkeeper right there. Look away and whistle for those sex scenes but considering Inky had a castle and still sexed in barns, forest glens, on top of desks (almost never IN their actual bedroom) did it really change?
I loved Hawke having a home but loading screens and a walk just to visit a companion was ugh
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