Just that I viscerally like being evil in games, and if I can't, I like supporting the characters that are, in any way I can. It's very cathartic for me. Even better if they're not 'muahaha' evil, just everyday, self-serving evil. I'm a decent person irl, I believe, but there's just something about not giving a f..udge about all the bleeding souls in a game that satisfies me.
Ah. Yeah, we want the same thing but for different reasons.
Since the story is pretty much always about saving the world in some way (barring DA2, which is my favorite story-wise for this exact reason), that's what I mean by 'heroic narrative'.
As for the characters, I'm not saying they're all boy scouts, I'm saying almost all of them are doing what they're doing for some just - in their eyes at least - cause. Even Solas wants to 'unslave' the elves, or spirits, or whatever it is that he's doing. And then we of course have all the supposedly morally gray characters who nevertheless have a hidden heart of gold, like the Lucanis situation with his disgust at the treatment of the slaves, Neve also fighting for the slaves with the resistance, etc. I expect all of our companions will ultimately want to 'do the right thing'.
I'm not complaining about it per se, I'm just saying we very rarely get companions in modern BW who are unapologetically selfish and amoral and only in it for their own benefit, like Astarion. I personally like these characters, and would also like to be able to play my character as not in this for some greater good. Fine, I can save the world, but only because it's where I keep all my stuff, and don't expect me to help old ladies across the street while I'm doing it. In the old BG (EE) my go to team usually included Viconia, Edwin, Xzar, Montaron and Dorn... and even then it kind of turned the game into a Benny Hill-esque run across the maps to escape the Flaming Fist, so not exactly a supported playstyle, despite having the option.
Sera, Vivienne, and Peebee say hello. Two of these characters remain stuck in their selfish ways.
And shouldn't most people want to save the world or solve the crisis of the setting? Didn't even Astarion, at least initially, want the worm out of his head? Heck, correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the player moderate Astarions excesses? Wanting to save the world so someone can exist in it is pretty mandatory. But with such a broad objective there can be loads of reasons for doing so and personality types that are attracted to the cause.
Selfish, but not 'screw everyone but me' selfish. Sera is all about the 'little people', Vivienne wants to uphold the status quo but not through 'evil' means, and Peebee I just... honestly don't remember what she was on about, but not 'power at all cost' I think? Like, run over anyone that could be a problem and don't give a damn sorta thing? She was never a malicious character.
And that's the thing, in BG3 you can encourage the worst impulses in your companions, because they want to save themselves, yes, get the worm out (until the astral tadpole at least), we all want that... until some of us realize what exactly it offers.
But the main thing is, you can solve the crisis. And it's not just 'hero saves the day'. My absolutely awful companions, like ascended Astarion and Shar Shart can join in my Bhaal legacy ruin the world ending. And we live happily ever after until daddy Bhaal tells me to kill you all and myself.
Personally, I'm sick of amoral characters, you see them everywhere in media now and days and I'm just tired of seeing them. If the characters are so self-centered why should I care for them? I guess that's why I'm still attached to characters like Varric after all these years. Yeah, he's a bit greedy and is generally apathetic to world events, but you can see that he is caring for his friends.
This and “gritty realism”… why do I want to watch a bunch of assholes in an irredeemable shithole? It’s why I detest 99 percent of dark fantasy. There is nothing to root for.
So just watched the ghil video on comic con and at the end of it she pointed out the next earning call is on the 30th...for some reason I thought it was in August.
My main take away here is now its just a little odder that we haven't gotten the release date yet. Of course it could be done all the way up to the 30th but somehow...I don't think so.
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Personally, I'm sick of amoral characters, you see them everywhere in media now and days and I'm just tired of seeing them. If the characters are so self-centered why should I care for them? I guess that's why I'm still attached to characters like Varric after all these years. Yeah, he's a bit greedy and is generally apathetic to world events, but you can see that he is caring for his friends.
This and “gritty realism”… why do I want to watch a bunch of assholes in an irredeemable shithole? It’s why I detest 99 percent of dark fantasy. There is nothing to root for.
Yea hI genreally prefe rplqayin gcharactres tha twantt omake the world better not worse and I plan to pla ym yRook's ht esam ewa when playing Veilguard
So just watched the ghil video on comic con and at the end of it she pointed out the next earning call is on the 30th...for some reason I thought it was in August.
My main take away here is now its just a little odder that we haven't gotten the release date yet. Of course it could be done all the way up to the 30th but somehow...I don't think so.
Isn't it bad "etiquette" to inform customers of a release date before informing the all-important shareholders?
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So just watched the ghil video on comic con and at the end of it she pointed out the next earning call is on the 30th...for some reason I thought it was in August.
My main take away here is now its just a little odder that we haven't gotten the release date yet. Of course it could be done all the way up to the 30th but somehow...I don't think so.
It reall ydepend on exactl ywhen they'er thinking of releasing the gam ethouigh as whilst i tmay seem logical to launc hit in October (given there are not really any games that will trip it up) they may b eaiming for a November/December release regardless because the ydon' tthink they can ge tit ready earlier. Remember at theend of the day the yknow they need to get this right which is whythey've bee ntakin gtheir time with this one imo. Hopefull yew ge ta ton moer info soon maybe next week.
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Maybe he has a lung disease so joins us to put a little light in the world before he dies.
Hmm. Wishing a terminal disease on someone isn't evil at all.
No but it could b ea Than esituatoin where he want's to help whil ehe's stil in a condition wher eh ecan. It was on eo fthe things I liked abou tThane's character tha th ewas prepared t otry. He knw ehis wor kwas dar kbut also knew a ttimes i twas necessary
But we do know that. They just said that he sees assassination as just a job. That sounds exactly like Zevran’s mindset, where if he’s hired to kill someone he doesn’t care if it’s an innocent person or not he’s going to murder them because it’s what he was hired to do. That line from Viago suggests he’s done stuff like completely extermination families, including children and innocent members, before as well.
That's his job. If he starts caring about his victims, it will affect his performance which could lead to him failing leading to the client sending out assassins after him. He is paid to kill people. I admire him for being so devoted to his craft.
Hawke is never forced to take on a job that involves killing people for a paycheck. Big difference between killing people trying to kill you and murdering people.
Not forced, but can have someone else kill for him/her. Look at Act 3 with Bethany. Hawke can have Meredith kill his/her sister. There are other scenarios Hawke isn't forced, but can kill for the coin. She/he can kill the dwarf when doing a quest involving the qunari and that crazy elf girl. Can murder knife that Lord whoever.
Lucanis fits the mold of a psychopath. He lacks remorse. He is a successful contract killer ( another Jimmy Moody ) who can compartmentalize and detach himself from the victim's humanity.
He is the type of person I would want on my roster. He doesn't let distraction's or any stuff bother him to get the job done.
I love how the defense for Lucanis is just comparing him to a cartoon villain. An evil person hating what an even more evil person did does not make them less evil.
Just like you keep saying every Shepard choosing red is committing genocide.
Maybe he has a lung disease so joins us to put a little light in the world before he dies.
Hmm. Wishing a terminal disease on someone isn't evil at all.
That depends on the person. It would fit perfectly for chuckles. Then again I just want him dead. I don't care if he has a terminal disease or not.
Last Edit: Jul 27, 2024 21:46:05 GMT by themikefest
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But we do know that. They just said that he sees assassination as just a job. That sounds exactly like Zevran’s mindset, where if he’s hired to kill someone he doesn’t care if it’s an innocent person or not he’s going to murder them because it’s what he was hired to do. That line from Viago suggests he’s done stuff like completely extermination families, including children and innocent members, before as well.
That's his job. If he starts caring about his victims, it will affect his performance which could lead to him failing leading to the client sending out assassins after him. He is paid to kill people. I admire him for being so devoted to his craft.
Hawke is never forced to take on a job that involves killing people for a paycheck. Big difference between killing people trying to kill you and murdering people.
Not forced, but can have someone else kill for him/her. Look at Act 3 with Bethany. Hawke can have Meredith kill his/her sister. There are other scenarios Hawke isn't forced, but can kill for the coin. She/he can kill the dwarf when doing a quest involving the qunari and that crazy elf girl. Can murder knife that Lord whoever.
Lucanis fits the mold of a psychopath. He lacks remorse. He is a successful contract killer ( another Jimmy Moody ) who can compartmentalize and detach himself from the victim's humanity.
He is the type of person I would want on my roster. He doesn't let distraction's or any stuff bother him to get the job done.
I love how the defense for Lucanis is just comparing him to a cartoon villain. An evil person hating what an even more evil person did does not make them less evil.
Just like you keep saying every Shepard choosing red is committing genocide.
Hmm. Wishing a terminal disease on someone isn't evil at all.
That depends on the person. It would fit perfectly for chuckles. Then again I just want him dead. I don't care if he has a terminal disease or not.
precisely why I don't like him personally. During the wigmaker job he let his personal feelings get in the way of doing his job and got a lot of people killed, even beyond his target. If this kind of behavior continues him and Oliver are not going to get along.
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People sure are making a lot of assumptions on minimal information.
Yea, I get speculating - we're extremely seasoned when it comes to discussions based on little to kill time as we wait a goddamn decade to finally play the next game - but I don't understand at all having pretty definitive opinions/decisions about DAVe, and particularly its story and characters, as if the game's already out and replayed 5 times...
Last Edit: Jul 27, 2024 23:58:32 GMT by midnight tea
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Vivienne wants to uphold the status quo but not through 'evil' means,
<snip>
Uhhhh, no. Viviane is probably one of the most evil things in Inquisition and that's with some heavy hitters with real big E Evil in them. Just listen to the conversations she has with Cole and you get a far different picture. She lied to get a rival noble in Orlais to make a foolish move against the Inquisition. That's corruption in a high level. She hates Cole so much she tries to bait him into some mistake so it can end in bloodshed and destruction ("Blood or banishment, either will suffice.") She destroyed innocent mages in the Spire because they would not fight by her side with the Templars. She has no pity and no room for any sort of remorse that she would consider a weakness. Viviane has a 'just' cause, her vision of correct magedom but its just another piece of her armor to protect herself, not her true calling. She is a demon of the small e evil. I would rather see things like that as temptations for our Rook and Companions than some kind of bloodletting to save the world. The key there is temptation. Better that all can partake or deny and none are predestined the soar or fall. . Thanks for your time.
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You know, Bio is making a concerted effort to hype the game via its amazing characters. The game is no longer about saving Thedas but about the lives of the Magnificent Seven. Where is the main story arc about preventing the demons from entering the world of Thedas? The focus appears to shift from "save the world" to "As the world turns" with our 7 amigos.
We are discussing the seven and who wants to do what with them but I think we all forgot the core story ... The Dreadwolf and terminating him if that's what it takes to save the day. But the twist is now we have two additional Evil beings to also kill..... I thought that was the original focus of DA4.... save Thedas.
precisely why I don't like him personally. During the wigmaker job he let his personal feelings get in the way of doing his job and got a lot of people killed, even beyond his target. If this kind of behavior continues him and Oliver are not going to get along.
What's this w3igmaker thing? And who is Oliver? If this is stuff from books/comics/whatever, it means nothing to me.
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You know, Bio is making a concerted effort to hype the game via its amazing characters. The game is no longer about saving Thedas but about the lives of the Magnificent Seven. Where is the main story arc about preventing the demons from entering the world of Thedas? The focus appears to shift from "save the world" to "As the world turns" with our 7 amigos.
General background stuff about the companions is something they can talk about without ruining the story.
I do think that at some point we'll see a bit more about some of the locations we're going to - I'd love a preview of Rivain or the Anderfells or the Grand Necropolis. I'd also like to see some higher level gameplay, especially with a ranged character. But I don't think I want to hear a lot more about exactly how we're goint to beat up the Evanuris and save the world, since the Game Informer articles were already a little too spoilery about that for my tastes.
Dragon Age Cast & Crew Tell Us Who They're Going To Romance | Comic Con | 2024 Dragon Age fans rejoiced at Summer Games Fest when BioWare dropped the first official trailer of Dragon Age: The Veilguard. The long awaited follow-up to Dragon Age: Inquisition will follow our protagonist Rook as they deal with the fallout of Solas’ attempts to tear down the veil. Fan favorites like Varric and Lace Harding–and hopefully Dorian Pavus if our host Kim Horcher has anything to say about it–will return along with a cast of new characters like the suave necromancer Emmrich and bubbly Veil Jumper Bellara.
Joining IGN at Comic Con 2024 to talk about our return to the world of Thedar are Creative Director John Epler, Creative Performance Director Ashley Barlow, and the voice of Harding herself Ali Hillis. Together, they tease what to expect from the locations we’ve never visited before, including Rivain, Tevinter and Arlathan. We don’t quite get to learn how Solavellan players might get some closure with the Dreadwolf himself but we do have a lot of fun learning about what it’s like to bring all new characters to life.
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precisely why I don't like him personally. During the wigmaker job he let his personal feelings get in the way of doing his job and got a lot of people killed, even beyond his target. If this kind of behavior continues him and Oliver are not going to get along.
What's this w3igmaker thing? And who is Oliver? If this is stuff from books/comics/whatever, it means nothing to me.
Yep, it's from a story featuring Lucanis from Tevinter Nights where he and his cousin (another Crow) go up against a pretty disgusting blood mage. Basically, it establishes that Lucanis is all business, all the time, but also doesn't like seeing people enslaved or abused.
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Oh, confirmation that Evka and Antoine and Strife and Irelin are back! Not that I expected anything else, but I look forward to seeing them .
Yeah, was going to come here and say this!
Strife and Ireline we knew from Game Informer, and looking forward to seeing them - Evka and Antoine is news though! I imagine a good chunk of returning characters in Veilguard are book/comic characters. John sidestepped the Mae question haha, but I imagine she'll turn up too. Outside of that, a few game characters. Inquisitor and Dorian make the most sense from the games at least.
Fair enough and Thane is a case in point. If you condemned him out of hand just because his job was assassin, you might never discover there was more to him than that.
I'd also point out that further up (under a spoiler) you mentioned Marius as another Mage Killer. He didn't have any choice in that, having been trained (and we don't know what methods were used) whilst he was still a slave. At some point he managed to gain his freedom and he became a paid assassin because that is all he knew, how to kill mages. Now initially may be Tessa did ensure they only killed nasty apostate blood mages but in the end it was the Archon who employed them to kill his political rivals because it wasn't expedient for him to do this personally. That was really no different to the Crows. It was only when one of their marks turned out to be his former girlfriend that Marius refused and they had to flee Tevinter as a result because the Archon wouldn't take kindly to them failing to fulfill their contract. So, they joined the Inquisition and now he has the opportunity to do something positive with his skills but he is still basically a trained killer.
What I understood from the quote that Lucanis sees being an assassin as a job is that he doesn't derive pleasure from killing people. He's not in it for the giggles or because he gets a sexual buzz from it. I wouldn't go near him if that was the case. Remember how Josephine started out as an Orlesian Bard because she thought it was just being rebellious and a bit of fun. Then she saw the reality when she had to defend herself and it ended with the person lying dead at her feet and it opened her eyes to the reality, after which she abandoned that way of life. I could be totally wrong in this but I got the hint from his story in Tevinter Nights that perhaps Lucanis was starting to question being a Crow and the indiscriminate use of his skills by Caterina but he still hadn't gone the entire journey to rejection of his way of life. May be I am wrong in that or may be he never will without the right encouragement. Who knows? That is what I intend to find out. Nevertheless, even if he ultimately took up a career as a chef, he will always be a trained killer.
Incidentally, we never really known the time frame for the Wake in which Lucanis was announced as dead by Illario. We just assume that perhaps something occurred before he returned to Antiva. What if that wasn't the case? If Viago was right and Caterina ordered Lucanis to wipe out the entire House Kortez as retribution for Emil perhaps he realised he could no longer treat it as "just a job". What if she even implied it would be his final test to ensure his promotion to First Talon and he opted out for that very reason? What if that was when he mysterious "died". Or may be that was when Illario arranged for an accident to befall him because he thought Lucanis had changed his mind about wanting to be First Talon. If we are going to meet the other characters showcased in the Missing (as has now been confirmed) that suggests we will be encountering Viago and Teia too. After all, we know we are going to have to deal with the Crows as a faction at some point. I have a strong feeling the whole messed up "family" dynamics of the House Dellamorte will play a major role in this.
What do you consider evil? Click on the link in my signature. Is that playthrough evil? I call it getting the job done.
Not evil, because the goal is once again saving the world. From personal gaming experience, I'd say the most satisfyingly evil options were joining the Legion in FNV, and now being a Bhaal-loyal Durge.
Vivienne wants to uphold the status quo but not through 'evil' means,
<snip>
Uhhhh, no. Viviane is probably one of the most evil things in Inquisition and that's with some heavy hitters with real big E Evil in them. Just listen to the conversations she has with Cole and you get a far different picture. She lied to get a rival noble in Orlais to make a foolish move against the Inquisition. That's corruption in a high level. She hates Cole so much she tries to bait him into some mistake so it can end in bloodshed and destruction ("Blood or banishment, either will suffice.") She destroyed innocent mages in the Spire because they would not fight by her side with the Templars. She has no pity and no room for any sort of remorse that she would consider a weakness. Viviane has a 'just' cause, her vision of correct magedom but its just another piece of her armor to protect herself, not her true calling. She is a demon of the small e evil. I would rather see things like that as temptations for our Rook and Companions than some kind of bloodletting to save the world. The key there is temptation. Better that all can partake or deny and none are predestined the soar or fall. . Thanks for your time.
Huh, now that I think about it, you're right. I guess I never paid enough attention to Viv to analyze her actions. And I agree on how that would be a good approach to give options for Rook and companions.