midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,127 Likes: 19,935
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
19,935
midnight tea
8,127
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Sept 26, 2024 22:49:58 GMT
How well would that support class do on their own? Take rook away, how long would it take to defeat a boss, a bunch of enemies in an area? While that is useful, what can they do without rook helping them? Will they be able to handle any enemy that comes at them? Can I have rook stay out of the fight to see if the companions can survive? In all the games, not counting MEA, I had the main character at times stay out of the fight whether it was behind cover or out of range from the enemy, the squadmates and companions were able to deal with the baddies on their own. I have no idea how long it will take companions to defeat boss/other enemies on their own. The game is not released yet. I also don't know how much damage can companions deal if you build them for that. Again, the game is not released yet.
All i'm saying is that they they're not useless simply because they deal less damage than Rook. It's like calling ME companions useless because they can't revive Shepard.
It really is a very weird mindset to insist that the value of a companion on a battlefield is entirely reliant on DPS... This generally goes against combat systems usually present in western RPGs.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:48:34 GMT
25,627
themikefest
15,423
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Sept 26, 2024 22:50:16 GMT
I have no idea how long it will take companions to defeat boss/other enemies on their own. The game is not released yet. I also don't know how much damage can companions deal if you build them for that. Again, the game is not released yet. Of course the game isn't out yet. From what is seen, it would take a fair amount of time to defeat an enemy, even longer if facing several at one time or a boss. I recall in a video with Busche narrating she said let's go help our companions deal with the baddies. When I heard that, I thought why couldn't they do that on their own? The companions in the previous DA games would beat up the companions in DAV. Even at the lowest level, they were dealing more damage than what is seen in this game.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:05:39 GMT
35,670
colfoley
18,637
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 26, 2024 23:00:26 GMT
I don't want to argue about MET, because as i said i was always more effective at killing enemies than my companions.
And as i said earlier, just because companions deal less damage than you do, it doesn't mean that they're useless. It's like saying that support classes are useless because they don't don't do big damage numbers.
How well would that support class do on their own? Take rook away, how long would it take to defeat a boss, a bunch of enemies in an area? Like, i genuinely don't understand how someone can call companions in DAVe useless, when they can buff you and debuff enemies, draw aggro from you, set up and detonate combos and also heal and REVIVE you. In ME if Shepard dies then it's game over. In DAVE, depending on who is in your party, you can continue playing. While that is useful, what can they do without rook helping them? Will they be able to handle any enemy that comes at them? Can I have rook stay out of the fight to see if the companions can survive? In all the games, not counting MEA, I had the main character at times stay out of the fight whether it was behind cover or out of range from the enemy, the squadmates and companions were able to deal with the baddies on their own. and the companions in Andromeda could do more damage then Ryder depending on setup. I agree. When I had the little ryder stay in cover doing nothing for however long, the squadmates were doing more damage than the little ryder even if it was a little amount. how well would any support class do on their own? Could Ryder/ Rook do it without their support classes? (No). Can Aaron Rogers win without his offensive line and wide recievers? Can the Wide recievers catch the ball without a QB to throw it to them?
|
|
inherit
7754
0
4,192
biggydx
2,524
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
BiggyMD
|
Post by biggydx on Sept 26, 2024 23:00:46 GMT
IDK if people noticed but the companions in the videos had very weak weapons equipped. I imagine the whole point is to emphasize Rook's gameplay. Enemies dying too fast would ruin the showcase. It's the same reason the player often does questionable actions. They aren't being efficient. They want to show the kit which means doing weird stuff to show you the different parts of the gameplay. Another comparable example is the first combat showcase. They were adding additional context every time they entered a new area, like first encounter was showing light and ranged attacks. Second showed dodging. Third showed abilities etc. but people were going out of their way to criticize how shallow it was. Could you imagine, when Inquisition was being trailered, a scenario where BioWare had a Rogue Inquisitor popping Varric's ult and using the Leaping Shot ability to mass crit the dragon in less than 10 seconds. People would be saying, "Dragons are fucking weak. Lame."
|
|
Elessar
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
Posts: 234 Likes: 343
inherit
2281
0
Oct 24, 2024 23:16:33 GMT
343
Elessar
234
December 2016
elessar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
|
Post by Elessar on Sept 26, 2024 23:04:38 GMT
If you can just sit back and watch enemies get destroyed, that's bad game design. If you want the game to be on autoplay, turn the difficulty down.
|
|
jennica
N3
The Rainbow Destined to Burn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 595 Likes: 1,313
Member is Online
inherit
6523
0
Member is Online
Oct 25, 2024 12:12:32 GMT
1,313
jennica
The Rainbow Destined to Burn
595
Mar 29, 2017 10:24:07 GMT
March 2017
jennica
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by jennica on Sept 26, 2024 23:06:18 GMT
I have no idea how long it will take companions to defeat boss/other enemies on their own. The game is not released yet. I also don't know how much damage can companions deal if you build them for that. Again, the game is not released yet.
All i'm saying is that they they're not useless simply because they deal less damage than Rook. It's like calling ME companions useless because they can't revive Shepard.
It really is a very weird mindset to insist that the value of a companion on a battlefield is entirely reliant on DPS... This generally goes against combat systems usually present in western RPGs. I can understand if someone wants companions to do big pp damage, but yeah, calling them useless because they deal less damage than you is strange to me. I'm sure there will be people who manage to complete DAVe solo on the hardest difficulty just like it was possible to do that in the previous games. But i feel like most players will have a hard time beating the game on the hardest difficulty without companions.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:05:39 GMT
35,670
colfoley
18,637
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 26, 2024 23:07:17 GMT
I have no idea how long it will take companions to defeat boss/other enemies on their own. The game is not released yet. I also don't know how much damage can companions deal if you build them for that. Again, the game is not released yet. Of course the game isn't out yet. From what is seen, it would take a fair amount of time to defeat an enemy, even longer if facing several at one time or a boss. I recall in a video with Busche narrating she said let's go help our companions deal with the baddies. When I heard that, I thought why couldn't they do that on their own? The companions in the previous DA games would beat up the companions in DAV. Even at the lowest level, they were dealing more damage than what is seen in this game. There was a time in my recent play session when my Inquisitor went down fight a Giant so had to hop over to Varric. My inquisitor was doing damage in the hundreds...Varric the teens. If we took that moment in isolation one would conclude that the companions are useless. At least under the heading of damage being the only way to tell usefulness.
|
|
shaqfu
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 865 Likes: 2,774
inherit
1142
0
2,774
shaqfu
865
August 2016
shaqfu
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by shaqfu on Sept 26, 2024 23:09:28 GMT
I think the companions could def use a bit of a damage boost. But nothing crazy like they did in Swtor. That game u don't even have to do anything in most encounters
|
|
illuminated11
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 722 Likes: 1,896
inherit
1922
0
Oct 25, 2024 10:48:31 GMT
1,896
illuminated11
722
November 2016
everythingilluminate
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by illuminated11 on Sept 26, 2024 23:12:13 GMT
Of course the game isn't out yet. From what is seen, it would take a fair amount of time to defeat an enemy, even longer if facing several at one time or a boss. I recall in a video with Busche narrating she said let's go help our companions deal with the baddies. When I heard that, I thought why couldn't they do that on their own? The companions in the previous DA games would beat up the companions in DAV. Even at the lowest level, they were dealing more damage than what is seen in this game. There was a time in my recent play session when my Inquisitor went down fight a Giant so had to hop over to Varric. My inquisitor was doing damage in the hundreds...Varric the teens. If we took that moment in isolation one would conclude that the companions are useless. At least under the heading of damage being the only way to tell usefulness. smh my head, you were neglecting Bianca weren't you? Poor girl...
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:48:34 GMT
25,627
themikefest
15,423
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Sept 26, 2024 23:12:56 GMT
how well would any support class do on their own? Depends on the people on the support team. With Ryder, yes. I say that because I never had to worry about the squadmates doing whatever because they won't doing anything. There was no power wheel. With rook, you have to ask me after I played the game. Yes. Roll out to the left or right to avoid the rush, then throw it to the tight end. Yes. Have you seen the plays having a running back throwing the ball to the receiver?
|
|
jennica
N3
The Rainbow Destined to Burn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 595 Likes: 1,313
Member is Online
inherit
6523
0
Member is Online
Oct 25, 2024 12:12:32 GMT
1,313
jennica
The Rainbow Destined to Burn
595
Mar 29, 2017 10:24:07 GMT
March 2017
jennica
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by jennica on Sept 26, 2024 23:13:59 GMT
I think the companions could def use a bit of a damage boost. But nothing crazy like they did in Swtor. That game u don't even have to do anything in most encounters Companions were freaking gods in Knights of the Fallen Empire/Eternal Throne. Before that i'd say they were fine. And i believe they nerfed them after Eternal Throne.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:48:34 GMT
25,627
themikefest
15,423
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Sept 26, 2024 23:17:05 GMT
]There was a time in my recent play session when my Inquisitor went down fight a Giant so had to hop over to Varric. My inquisitor was doing damage in the hundreds...Varric the teens. Sounds like you didn't upgrade his bow. I know the few times I controlled him, he did a fair amount of damage.
|
|
illuminated11
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 722 Likes: 1,896
inherit
1922
0
Oct 25, 2024 10:48:31 GMT
1,896
illuminated11
722
November 2016
everythingilluminate
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by illuminated11 on Sept 26, 2024 23:17:54 GMT
I will say, the devs talk about specific design directions with intent of making companions feel more like autonomous beings, but I don't know that this shift necessarily accomplishes their goal, because you, the player, are expected to be the one setting and detonating combos most of the time. Bringing back control over AI scripts would've been a great way to emphasize that point, since they can be programmed to do everything with zero player input in the heat of combat.
|
|
azarhal
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 9,378 Likes: 26,327
inherit
1519
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:51:36 GMT
26,327
azarhal
9,378
Sept 9, 2016 12:15:16 GMT
September 2016
azarhal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by azarhal on Sept 26, 2024 23:23:21 GMT
I think the companions could def use a bit of a damage boost. But nothing crazy like they did in Swtor. That game u don't even have to do anything in most encounters Until we get to see exactly how we can build them, I wouldn't say they need one. A lots of BioWare demo was with the companions having +1 weapons despite being level 30ish and the PC having like +7 weapons.
|
|
Ice-Quinn
N3
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 798 Likes: 2,214
inherit
12687
0
Oct 25, 2024 10:10:02 GMT
2,214
Ice-Quinn
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
798
Jun 15, 2024 22:26:22 GMT
June 2024
icequinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Ice-Quinn on Sept 26, 2024 23:54:36 GMT
I will say, the devs talk about specific design directions with intent of making companions feel more like autonomous beings, but I don't know that this shift necessarily accomplishes their goal, because you, the player, are expected to be the one setting and detonating combos most of the time. Bringing back control over AI scripts would've been a great way to emphasize that point, since they can be programmed to do everything with zero player input in the heat of combat. I would've preferred a good Tactics system as well, a la DAO and DA2. They seem to be relying a lot on the use of the ability wheel... I personally don't know if I'll be using it that much. MET had something akin to it, and I rarely ever used it. It's more satisfying to see companions doing the own thing, efficiently - but also, super OP companions just one-shot'ing stuff isn't fun either. I never saw an issue with companions in past DA games - only if they follow the MEA formula, cause that was ridiculous, then I think it becomes more of a problem. I just watched a couple videos paying attention to companions damage without Rook's assistance. Bellara and Neve in both videos, and Neve was doing ok. Bellara, I had trouble ID'ing her shots in the big clusterduck of visual effects, but I did see Neve's at least 2-3 times (because of the animation and VFX - I'm assuming it was her Icebreaker spell) and it did a good chunk of damage on like a darkspawn mook (health). And a little bit less on another enemy's Stagger bar, but still it was ok damage. So, it's not looking like MEA levels of bad. But there is a noticeable difference in how companions behave from like past DA games. It's more Mass Effect'y (for lack of a better term?). And apparently, they can't be downed. So, I just don't know right now. I'm still hyped AAF, don't get me wrong, it just might take some getting use to.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:05:39 GMT
35,670
colfoley
18,637
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 27, 2024 0:12:52 GMT
how well would any support class do on their own? Depends on the people on the support team. With Ryder, yes. I say that because I never had to worry about the squadmates doing whatever because they won't doing anything. There was no power wheel. With rook, you have to ask me after I played the game. Yes. Roll out to the left or right to avoid the rush, then throw it to the tight end. Yes. Have you seen the plays having a running back throwing the ball to the receiver? the height of pedantry. Yes, wide recievers was the more general term for any player and also missed the point entirely that in sports you need a team. In combat you need a team.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:48:34 GMT
25,627
themikefest
15,423
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Sept 27, 2024 0:20:48 GMT
Depends on the people on the support team. With Ryder, yes. I say that because I never had to worry about the squadmates doing whatever because they won't doing anything. There was no power wheel. With rook, you have to ask me after I played the game. Yes. Roll out to the left or right to avoid the rush, then throw it to the tight end. Yes. Have you seen the plays having a running back throwing the ball to the receiver? the height of pedantry. Yes, wide recievers was the more general term for any player and also missed the point entirely that in sports you need a team. In combat you need a team. Yes, it does take a team to complete a mission/quest, but at the same time if someone isn't pulling their weight, they weaken that team that could lead to something bad
|
|
inherit
ღ Voice of Reason
169
0
17,105
Element Zero
7,303
August 2016
elementzero
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Element Zero on Sept 27, 2024 0:22:46 GMT
ME Andromeda had great combat, and Veilguard looks a lot like it. Ryder didn't need companions at all. He was a hurricane of destruction. Still, they did have useful abilities that contributed. Cora froze enemies with Cryo Ammo and passed out constant shield boosts. Drak primed Fire detonations, and Vetra primed Tech detonations. Several had useful passives that boosted the entire squad in various ways.
Similarly, even if Rook were to be as OP as Ryder, I'd still be slowing time with Neve and Bellara. I'd still be chaining combos with whichever squaddies I bring. Combos are king in these games. If you aren't using them, you're choosing to be ineffective. Combos are the companions' raison d'être, their only significant contribution outside of roleplay/banter. [Along with absorbing some damage and occupying enemies, of course.]
I'm excited about the gameplay. I don't really like how magical and flashy the Rogue and Warrior are, but they sure do look fun. I've always loved DA for its story and characters, and tolerated the gameplay as the cost of doing business. Now, it looks like I might enjoy the full experience, as I always have with Mass Effect.
|
|
Ice-Quinn
N3
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 798 Likes: 2,214
inherit
12687
0
Oct 25, 2024 10:10:02 GMT
2,214
Ice-Quinn
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
798
Jun 15, 2024 22:26:22 GMT
June 2024
icequinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Ice-Quinn on Sept 27, 2024 0:35:45 GMT
All Neve:
|
|
Ice-Quinn
N3
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 798 Likes: 2,214
inherit
12687
0
Oct 25, 2024 10:10:02 GMT
2,214
Ice-Quinn
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
798
Jun 15, 2024 22:26:22 GMT
June 2024
icequinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Ice-Quinn on Sept 27, 2024 0:43:32 GMT
"All Neve" - that sounds like a great name for like a tampon line. "Be fresh as a daisy with All Neve".❄️
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,489
smilesja
14,326
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Sept 27, 2024 1:09:04 GMT
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Oct 25, 2024 11:05:39 GMT
35,670
colfoley
18,637
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 27, 2024 1:10:34 GMT
All Neve: Worth noting to that seems to be something related to the Blight. Which we have heard is weak against fire damage. Now we don't know what difficulty this is on but its still encouraging to see using stuff that enemies aren't weak against isn't an automatic death sentence.
|
|
LukeBarrett
N3
BioWare Dev
Game Systems Director for Dragon Age
Posts: 292 Likes: 4,115
inherit
BioWare Dev
324
0
4,115
LukeBarrett
Game Systems Director for Dragon Age
292
August 2016
lukebarrett
|
Post by LukeBarrett on Sept 27, 2024 2:04:14 GMT
When I watched the Game Riot video, it seemed like companions were doing decent damage? During the ogre fight specifically I kept an eye on the health bar whenever they had an attack animation, and they took a decent chunk even without combos. Granted I'm pretty sure he was playing on easy, but that seems like best source over curated marketing videos.
edit: I also think people need to realize that action games inherently prioritize different things from a more classic dnd style combat. You can't design an action game with a true healer/support class character in mind, at least not in the same way, that's just not really how these types of games work. It really may depend on the settings, although I've heard from more than one Youtuber who tried the game is that, if you (so, Rook as well) really want to do a lot of effective damage, you can't ignore combos and synergies with companions, because that's that combat system's magic sauce. Even in that edited fight we see that the most damage comes from performing successful combos. You can get companions to do decent damage without commanding them but by default an individual companion will be dealing less dps than Rook. As for the detonations (combos), they are a simple way to do high damage but not always the best from a min/max perspective - I look forward to discussing mechanical specifics after the game launches ☺️.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,489
smilesja
14,326
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Sept 27, 2024 2:07:21 GMT
It really may depend on the settings, although I've heard from more than one Youtuber who tried the game is that, if you (so, Rook as well) really want to do a lot of effective damage, you can't ignore combos and synergies with companions, because that's that combat system's magic sauce. Even in that edited fight we see that the most damage comes from performing successful combos. You can get companions to do decent damage without commanding them but by default an individual companion will be dealing less dps than Rook. As for the detonations (combos), they are a simple way to do high damage but not always the best from a min/max perspective - I look forward to discussing mechanical specifics after the game launches ☺️. Luke has spoken!
|
|
LukeBarrett
N3
BioWare Dev
Game Systems Director for Dragon Age
Posts: 292 Likes: 4,115
inherit
BioWare Dev
324
0
4,115
LukeBarrett
Game Systems Director for Dragon Age
292
August 2016
lukebarrett
|
Post by LukeBarrett on Sept 27, 2024 2:26:45 GMT
All Neve: Worth noting to that seems to be something related to the Blight. Which we have heard is weak against fire damage. Now we don't know what difficulty this is on but its still encouraging to see using stuff that enemies aren't weak against isn't an automatic death sentence. Since this was technically shown in some of the videos: Each enemy is Resistant to one damage type and Vulnerable to another one. Turning up the difficulty will increase the strength of the Resistance up to the point they are basically immune to it on the highest one. Vulnerability can be modified in custom difficulty but the default is the same for all presets. Hope that helps 😀
|
|