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Post by fairdragon on Nov 13, 2024 12:15:47 GMT
I personally think this is the most mature DA game too, so you don't have to fell alone there. Not so much as I feel alone in this but that I feel like, given that a lot of people say it isn't, it just feels like such a hot take. Also a bit off the cuff and reactionary in its own way because realized I was directly comparing it to DAO when I also find DAI to be very mature...but then DAO is traditionally called the 'darkest' and 'most mature' DA game and even Darrah commented that was a deliberate decision with Inquisition so IDK, but there were certainly some elements of Origins I found very unmature, despite overall being quite good and meanwhile Veilguard just feels like its a very mature game in philsophy and in tone. I think it is a question of definition. For me DATV is the darkest and sadest DA game. DA2 follow right after it as darkest and ? DA game. (can't put my finger on)
Then DAO (dark and diverse) and DAI is the lightest in my eyes.
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Post by fairdragon on Nov 13, 2024 12:37:56 GMT
Again, loving the game. But sorry, there *has* been a shift in tone from previous entries, you'd have to be blind not to see it. Then i am have to be blind. I see disney in Bellara (she is like Tinker Bell), but at the same time she is like sera. And the disney aspect saved her for me. I am not a fan of Sera at all. I hate Bellara's first words to Rook, but the rest is amazing. But i also see the more dark scenes, darker then DAO in my eyes. And both together in the end is the same as DAO dark + unfunny humor. I think they hear the complain of the light tone of DAI. I believe it is a question if you like disney styl or not. The same question goes for the humor in DAO or games like BG3. Disney character can be really deep, if you look for it. And the same goes for DATV. But for me at least in the end non of that make the games lighter. |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 14:00:26 GMT
I hear people but I have a hard time understanding complaints about the tone of the game when I see people upvote posts about how whitewashed the Wardens are in the game after we find out that they: 1) Had a leader who failed take the threat of the Blight seriously (previous games had excuses for them) until their own fortress got destroyed. He wasn't even corrupted or tempted by the gods like other characters. That was a purely human failing brought on by ambition and pride... leading to...
2) Thousands of Wardens being straight up killed. There are very few Wardens left at the start of Act 2. Even then, more continue to die in Hossberg and other areas as they push back against the blight... there we learn that...
3) they caused the extinction of their own emblem/symbol by blighting their gryphons intentionally, causing the mage who squirreled a few surviving ones to go crazy and..
4) Survive the supposedly heroic Calling alongside other wardens, twisting and transforming into a darkspawn-adjacent creatures who *think* they are still the heroes they were but blind to the corruption that has taken root. THIS is really fucked up.
Hell I didn't even feel good about killing Isseya, and hearing her death throes actually hurt a bit. She wasn't evil. IDK. She didn't deserve that fate. No Warden does. Genuinely feels like a lot of people just... don't pay attention. If it feels like BioWare is spoonfeeding people, it's probably cause without that they'd fail to understand anything at all. |
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 13, 2024 14:58:37 GMT
I hear people but I have a hard time understanding complaints about the tone of the game when I see people upvote posts about how whitewashed the Wardens are in the game after we find out that they: 1) Had a leader who failed take the threat of the Blight seriously (previous games had excuses for them) until their own fortress got destroyed. He wasn't even corrupted or tempted by the gods like other characters. That was a purely human failing brought on by ambition and pride... leading to...
2) Thousands of Wardens being straight up killed. There are very few Wardens left at the start of Act 2. Even then, more continue to die in Hossberg and other areas as they push back against the blight... there we learn that...
3) they caused the extinction of their own emblem/symbol by blighting their gryphons intentionally, causing the mage who squirreled a few surviving ones to go crazy and..
4) Survive the supposedly heroic Calling alongside other wardens, twisting and transforming into a darkspawn-adjacent creatures who *think* they are still the heroes they were but blind to the corruption that has taken root. THIS is really fucked up.
Hell I didn't even feel good about killing Isseya, and hearing her death throes actually hurt a bit. She wasn't evil. IDK. She didn't deserve that fate. No Warden does. Genuinely feels like a lot of people just... don't pay attention. If it feels like BioWare is spoonfeeding people, it's probably cause without that they'd fail to understand anything at all. There is something to that, but let me pose a question: was there any scene in the Wardens' story arc in DAV, that had the same emotional impact as Duncan's and Cailin's death in DAO? Yes, many Wardens died, but it was all pretty impersonal in comparison. Davrin's story arc was good, but what about the scene at the end? Didn't that feel almost detached in comparison to what you would have expected?
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Post by illuminated11 on Nov 13, 2024 15:00:21 GMT
I never found Andromeda all that tonally different from the original series, personally. Ryder is a different character, but the situation is immensely serious, with the Initiative in danger of starvation, and most of the companions are quite serious as well, especially Drack and Jaal. The scene by scene writing has issues, not the overall tone.
That said, Veilguard does feel different from past games, at least for me. I don't know if I would call it a tonal issue, either, though. The writing has less specificity to it, every other person is killed by an artifact or blood magic. There's little political or ideological conflict between characters. If anything it feels more like an anime than disney.
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Post by azarhal on Nov 13, 2024 15:01:32 GMT
I hear people but I have a hard time understanding complaints about the tone of the game when I see people upvote posts about how whitewashed the Wardens are in the game after we find out that they: Hell I didn't even feel good about killing Isseya, and hearing her death throes actually hurt a bit. She wasn't evil. IDK. She didn't deserve that fate. No Warden does. Isseya didn't die in my first PT, not sure if that's better.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 15:03:30 GMT
I hear people but I have a hard time understanding complaints about the tone of the game when I see people upvote posts about how whitewashed the Wardens are in the game after we find out that they: Hell I didn't even feel good about killing Isseya, and hearing her death throes actually hurt a bit. She wasn't evil. IDK. She didn't deserve that fate. No Warden does. Isseya didn't die in my first PT, not sure if that's better.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? How?!
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 15:09:56 GMT
I hear people but I have a hard time understanding complaints about the tone of the game when I see people upvote posts about how whitewashed the Wardens are in the game after we find out that they: 1) Had a leader who failed take the threat of the Blight seriously (previous games had excuses for them) until their own fortress got destroyed. He wasn't even corrupted or tempted by the gods like other characters. That was a purely human failing brought on by ambition and pride... leading to...
2) Thousands of Wardens being straight up killed. There are very few Wardens left at the start of Act 2. Even then, more continue to die in Hossberg and other areas as they push back against the blight... there we learn that...
3) they caused the extinction of their own emblem/symbol by blighting their gryphons intentionally, causing the mage who squirreled a few surviving ones to go crazy and..
4) Survive the supposedly heroic Calling alongside other wardens, twisting and transforming into a darkspawn-adjacent creatures who *think* they are still the heroes they were but blind to the corruption that has taken root. THIS is really fucked up.
Hell I didn't even feel good about killing Isseya, and hearing her death throes actually hurt a bit. She wasn't evil. IDK. She didn't deserve that fate. No Warden does. Genuinely feels like a lot of people just... don't pay attention. If it feels like BioWare is spoonfeeding people, it's probably cause without that they'd fail to understand anything at all. There is something to that, but let me pose a question: was there any scene in the Wardens' story arc in DAV, that had the same emotional impact as Duncan's and Cailin's death in DAO? Yes, many Wardens died, but it was all pretty impersonal in comparison. Davrin's story arc was good, but what about the scene at the end? Didn't that feel almost detached in comparison to what you would have expected? Is it really reasonable to assume that people cared about Duncan and Cailin on their first playthroughs, especially if they played an Origin that wasn't necessarily on good terms with him (Human Noble)? Not sure how that pertains to how grim the game felt though. I mean sure... but if you want to talk about how this game expands on the Origins tragedy? We visit Weisshaupt only for it to be destroyed. The HQ that was built up for multiple games ends up being destroyed. We never see it in its glory. I feels it's more reasonable to assume that Warden fans would be hurt by that compared to a Fereldan monarch we knew for a few minutes in the very first installment.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Nov 13, 2024 15:32:24 GMT
Isseya didn't die in my first PT, not sure if that's better.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? How?! Don't punch the First Warden.
You get a clue that way during the quest to something you can find (you aren't told where to find it, you need to search around) and use to make Isseya realize she's doing something real stupid.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 13, 2024 15:34:43 GMT
My game is updating. Wonder what they fixed now?
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 15:40:10 GMT
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? How?! Don't punch the First Warden.
You get a clue that way during the quest to something you can find (you aren't told where to find it, you need to search around) and use to make Isseya realize she's doing something real stupid.
Damn it felt right for my character. Makes sense though.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SomberXIII on Nov 13, 2024 15:40:48 GMT
There is something to that, but let me pose a question: was there any scene in the Wardens' story arc in DAV, that had the same emotional impact as Duncan's and Cailin's death in DAO? Yes, many Wardens died, but it was all pretty impersonal in comparison. Davrin's story arc was good, but what about the scene at the end? Didn't that feel almost detached in comparison to what you would have expected? Is it really reasonable to assume that people cared about Duncan and Cailin on their first playthroughs, especially if they played an Origin that wasn't necessarily on good terms with him (Human Noble)? Not sure how that pertains to how grim the game felt though. I mean sure... but if you want to talk about how this game expands on the Origins tragedy? We visit Weisshaupt only for it to be destroyed. The HQ that was built up for multiple games ends up being destroyed. We never see it in its glory. I feels it's more reasonable to assume that Warden fans would be hurt by that compared to a Fereldan monarch we knew for a few minutes in the very first installment. I've never cared that much for the glorious Duncan the recruiter who appeared in an origin. I'm surprised some do actually cared about Cailan who even had less screentime than Duncan. A little funny that a random monarch with tiny amount of character in the early game had 'emotional impact' lol. Maybe their DAO nostalgic bias were too strong.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 15:43:06 GMT
Is it really reasonable to assume that people cared about Duncan and Cailin on their first playthroughs, especially if they played an Origin that wasn't necessarily on good terms with him (Human Noble)? Not sure how that pertains to how grim the game felt though. I mean sure... but if you want to talk about how this game expands on the Origins tragedy? We visit Weisshaupt only for it to be destroyed. The HQ that was built up for multiple games ends up being destroyed. We never see it in its glory. I feels it's more reasonable to assume that Warden fans would be hurt by that compared to a Fereldan monarch we knew for a few minutes in the very first installment. I've never cared that much for the glorious Duncan the recruiter who appeared in an origin. I'm surprised some do actually cared about Cailan who was even had less screentime than Duncan. Maybe their DAO bias were too strong. Agreed. Also side note but your Rook looks great.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Nov 13, 2024 15:43:45 GMT
There is something to that, but let me pose a question: was there any scene in the Wardens' story arc in DAV, that had the same emotional impact as Duncan's and Cailin's death in DAO? Yes, many Wardens died, but it was all pretty impersonal in comparison. Davrin's story arc was good, but what about the scene at the end? Didn't that feel almost detached in comparison to what you would have expected? Davrin and Assan's deaths hit me way, and I do mean way more than Duncan's or Cailan's ever did, so there's that.
Though I admit that could be because Duncan and Cailan's fates were telegraphed a lot.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Nov 13, 2024 15:44:52 GMT
Isseya didn't die in my first PT, not sure if that's better.
High five, fellow non-puncher!
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Post by fraggle on Nov 13, 2024 15:52:11 GMT
Whenever I replay DAO I never understand the popularity with Duncan. I mean, the scene is great when they battle and it has a nice dramatic impact, but I have zero emotional attachment to him. The only thing coming out of it is that I can empathise with Alistair about losing someone so important to him. And I strongly empathise with the Wardens nearly losing everything in DAV.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Nov 13, 2024 15:55:13 GMT
Whenever I replay DAO I never understand the popularity with Duncan. I mean, the scene is great when they battle and it has a nice dramatic impact, but I have zero emotional attachment to him. The only thing coming out of it is that I can empathise with Alistair about losing someone so important to him. And I strongly empathise with the Wardens nearly losing everything in DAV. It's the voice. 
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 13, 2024 15:56:37 GMT
There is something to that, but let me pose a question: was there any scene in the Wardens' story arc in DAV, that had the same emotional impact as Duncan's and Cailin's death in DAO? Yes, many Wardens died, but it was all pretty impersonal in comparison. Davrin's story arc was good, but what about the scene at the end? Didn't that feel almost detached in comparison to what you would have expected? Is it really reasonable to assume that people cared about Duncan and Cailin on their first playthroughs, especially if they played an Origin that wasn't necessarily on good terms with him (Human Noble)? Not sure how that pertains to how grim the game felt though. I mean sure... but if you want to talk about how this game expands on the Origins tragedy? We visit Weisshaupt only for it to be destroyed. The HQ that was built up for multiple games ends up being destroyed. We never see it in its glory. I feels it's more reasonable to assume that Warden fans would be hurt by that compared to a Fereldan monarch we knew for a few minutes in the very first installment. No, that wasn't it. I did not particularly care about Duncan and Cailin as such, but their death brought home that the battle was lost in a way...
...the Weishaupt battle in DAV never managed to do. Maybe it was because the battle wasn't a total loss, or maybe they shouldn't have set up the First Warden as this game's "ah yes, Reapers" guy, with his apparent death serving the same purpose. Whatever it was, it didn't come across as impactful as that scene in DAO. YMMV of course.
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Post by saandrig on Nov 13, 2024 16:20:44 GMT
Whenever I replay DAO I never understand the popularity with Duncan. I mean, the scene is great when they battle and it has a nice dramatic impact, but I have zero emotional attachment to him. The only thing coming out of it is that I can empathise with Alistair about losing someone so important to him. And I strongly empathise with the Wardens nearly losing everything in DAV. It's the voice. "The Chantry teaches us..." |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 16:29:01 GMT
I mean I love Duncan but he wouldn't crack the top 20 things I would consider when thinking of DAO. Siege of Weisshaupt though.... seeing the Joining chalice from Ostagar lowkey broke me. I had to sit for 5 mins in contemplation. |
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Post by IlidanDA on Nov 13, 2024 17:56:48 GMT
Dragon Age on X Hey PC players, we hope you’re enjoying your time in Thedas! There’s a patch out today to reduce a game crash issue during Shader Compilation and a Rook customization issue. See the full notes here: x.ea.com/datv/PCPatch2 |
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 13, 2024 19:30:35 GMT
I hear people but I have a hard time understanding complaints about the tone of the game when I see people upvote posts about how whitewashed the Wardens are in the game after we find out that they: 1) Had a leader who failed take the threat of the Blight seriously (previous games had excuses for them) until their own fortress got destroyed. He wasn't even corrupted or tempted by the gods like other characters. That was a purely human failing brought on by ambition and pride... leading to...
2) Thousands of Wardens being straight up killed. There are very few Wardens left at the start of Act 2. Even then, more continue to die in Hossberg and other areas as they push back against the blight... there we learn that...
3) they caused the extinction of their own emblem/symbol by blighting their gryphons intentionally, causing the mage who squirreled a few surviving ones to go crazy and..
4) Survive the supposedly heroic Calling alongside other wardens, twisting and transforming into a darkspawn-adjacent creatures who *think* they are still the heroes they were but blind to the corruption that has taken root. THIS is really fucked up.
Hell I didn't even feel good about killing Isseya, and hearing her death throes actually hurt a bit. She wasn't evil. IDK. She didn't deserve that fate. No Warden does. Genuinely feels like a lot of people just... don't pay attention. If it feels like BioWare is spoonfeeding people, it's probably cause without that they'd fail to understand anything at all. Yeah, no kidding - it's almost funny to see people who complain the most about the lack of nuance usually demonstrate that they can't pick up on anything that isn't spoon-fed to them. I've just had a frustrating discussion with someone who wrote a long diatribe on Twitter about how unhappy they are with how DAV ended, and when talking to them I realized quite quickly that they didn't pay attention to half of the story, and got even some very basic information wrong (clearly spelled out and repeated several time in the story, no less). How does one even discuss this thing with people who seem to have basic reading comprehension problems, yet insist that they are right?
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 13, 2024 19:33:53 GMT
Dragon Age on X Hey PC players, we hope you’re enjoying your time in Thedas! There’s a patch out today to reduce a game crash issue during Shader Compilation and a Rook customization issue. See the full notes here: x.ea.com/datv/PCPatch2Oh god, yes!
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 13, 2024 19:39:03 GMT
I hear people but I have a hard time understanding complaints about the tone of the game when I see people upvote posts about how whitewashed the Wardens are in the game after we find out that they: 1) Had a leader who failed take the threat of the Blight seriously (previous games had excuses for them) until their own fortress got destroyed. He wasn't even corrupted or tempted by the gods like other characters. That was a purely human failing brought on by ambition and pride... leading to...
2) Thousands of Wardens being straight up killed. There are very few Wardens left at the start of Act 2. Even then, more continue to die in Hossberg and other areas as they push back against the blight... there we learn that...
3) they caused the extinction of their own emblem/symbol by blighting their gryphons intentionally, causing the mage who squirreled a few surviving ones to go crazy and..
4) Survive the supposedly heroic Calling alongside other wardens, twisting and transforming into a darkspawn-adjacent creatures who *think* they are still the heroes they were but blind to the corruption that has taken root. THIS is really fucked up.
Hell I didn't even feel good about killing Isseya, and hearing her death throes actually hurt a bit. She wasn't evil. IDK. She didn't deserve that fate. No Warden does. Genuinely feels like a lot of people just... don't pay attention. If it feels like BioWare is spoonfeeding people, it's probably cause without that they'd fail to understand anything at all. There is something to that, but let me pose a question: was there any scene in the Wardens' story arc in DAV, that had the same emotional impact as Duncan's and Cailin's death in DAO? Yes, many Wardens died, but it was all pretty impersonal in comparison. Davrin's story arc was good, but what about the scene at the end? Didn't that feel almost detached in comparison to what you would have expected? No, because DAV is not a story that is focusing squarely around Wardens. We've moved away from that, the Wardens aren't the center of attention since DAO. I can, however, think of at least one character whose fate certainly had the same (and likely even more of an) emotional impact, and they are actually positioned in the story in basically the same spot Duncan was.
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The Smiling Knight
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Post by smilesja on Nov 13, 2024 20:09:14 GMT
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