Schmooples' Den! The DA News Discussion Thread

Your argument just seems really contradictory and self defeating.  

I would point out that if you *needed* a tac cam or indepth tactic pages like in the first two games...then why do you even need companions?  Afterall if they need *that much control* then they might just become extensions of the Player/ PC in the first place.  A similar problem happened in Ghost Recon Wildlands (and which is why I don't *really* mind them not having AI companions in Breakpoint) is because they weren't their own people.  They had no character of their own and had little role distinguishable from the PC other than helping the PC out with gameplay by doing...esseentially the same thing, healing and synch shot drones. They weren't divided into classes and didn't have their own strengths, weaknesses, or abilities that effected gameplay...let alone pesky things like personality.  

Yet in Dragon Age Inquisition, as I have touched on in my previous comments on how each companion can have the role complimenting the strengths and weaknesses of the Inquistor, each companion in DAI has a unique role in combat.  Doubly so because A. their characters and writing tend to inform certain combat styles over others (though the player can still have the option to ignore this) and B. each of them have their own specialization which also informs their role in combat and their weapons.  They are their own people, they each have their own unique place in combat and the Inquisitor would usually be lost without them...despite the occasional wonky AI.  Hell this might be the reason why I often link the Inquisition with the Avengers or 'Team Arrow' in my mind...other than the fact that DAI and The Avengers came out right around the same time...while the previous DA casts, while good in their own right...just didn't feel like an integrated team of Big Damn Heroes.  

Companions vastly increase the amount of strategy and tactics in combat. Strategy involves positional play, something which is harder to do with a single player apart from ambushing, and tactical play involves the precise input of abilities, something that is imprecise with AI.

Incorrect.

An aspect diluted by the lack of control the player has over their companions.

I've never really have had issues with it...erm ok let me rewind...I had no trouble with it in BioWare's most rescent outing.  Andromeda my companions were quite capable of using the abilities I wanted them to use either on their own or with just a press of a button.  It was cool and it helped syngergize with my overall strategy with my Ryder perfectly, he sniper, Drack and Cora giant fleshy distract orbs.  

...*shrugs*  It is my intepretation of these events and systems.  I certainly don't think its incorrect and I would really like a logically consistent argument on why you feel its incorrect.  

Just to borrow a phrase...incorrect.   And I explained my reasons why but for some reason you decided to cut that bit of my argument from the excerpt you quoted.  To reiterate:  They are their own individuals.  I don't *have to* hold their hand or spend god knows how long crawling through menus making them behave like my personal combat puppets.  I just set them up and let them go, usually they do what I want them to do.  Yes, there were issues with Inquisition's 'tactic' systems but at the end of the day having a reaction to those issues is to completely remove a core element of DA from the beginning, is just really bizzarre...and as I have explained multiple times there is zero need for it.  The companions are valuable for story, they are great and unique characters, and they help in combat...because the Inquisitor ccan't do everything, neither can Ryder...and I doubt the character in DA 4 will be able to either.  

Interesting point.  

A.  That's largely semanticle, yes they are fictional lines of code and not real people but its really bizarre at this juncture to point that out.  For the purposes of this argument, as it pertains internally to the world of DA...they are actual people.  And the cast of Inquisition feels much more like fully fleshed out people then in either of the previous two DA games...largely because they can do their own thing.  

B.  I think its safe to say we'll just disagree on this argument.  Though the main contention is why any of this is worthy of getting rid of companions permenantly just because you didn't like how they handled their tactics in Inquisition.  Again that is pretty core to ME and DA as their franchise identities and even BioWare more generally...one reason people didn't really like Anthem from what I gather.  I mean seriously could you imagine the howling if they just ditched companions coupled with a MP mode and all the stuff going on about live service?  The fandom would riot.

Of course the main disagreement here is probably...I don't want that level of tactical/ strategic control in my games.  I play RPGs for very different reasons.  And I can understand, as an abstract concept why other people do want to RP the battlefield commander coming up with intricate strategies for their companions...again it takes away from their individuality and it is also hyper annoying crawling arround in menus min/maxing my party and manipulating them to the tiniest detail.  DAI was too simplistic, sure, but I appreciated the simplicity that I basically only had to go into their menus a couple of times to set the options I wanted...and they would just go off on their own and do it.  The AI isn't always perfect, no, but in Inquisition it was adequate enough to get the results I wanted...in Andromeda it was even better. 

(Also as an aside I kind of felt the tactics systems was a little...lazy...in previous games 'we don't have to design competent AI or flesh out these characters, we can just have the player mess with menus for ages and do it for us!')  

Ah that's what you meant! Don't worry I don't tend to be that weird about fictional characters.  I have my ocassional lapses but for the most part I can distinguish real people with the fictional ones, just that I also try and spice up my language and I don't want my post to just be 'character...character...character'...so for here character and people are synonyms...Also I do also get annoyed when fans think they know more about individual character arcs then their creators. 

Of course.  Actually if its any indication based on BioWare's position as the only one in the industry that actually does it...well at least for the Western developers...I can just imagine there are a lot of pitfalls.  And yeah I have wondered if BioWare can... and even should...go that route in the wake of my time with Assassin's Creed Odyssey, a perfectly functional SP RPG WITHOUT companions...but I still don't think I would like it much considering its what makes BioWare unique...and is  one of the two main reasons I find their style so attractive, and why they are my favorite game company.  I just am much more interested and focused on characters and character interaction in fiction then anything else in fiction so I appreciate how these companions let BioWare focus on that kind of stortelling. 

But on the other hand it does beg the question of what they could focus their development efforts on if they didn't have to worry about doing it.   

No it isn't. And no it didn't feel "tacked on" at all. The move from action to tactical camera is almost seemless. Moving the camera around is as easy as any traditional wasd movement of your character in innumerable games out there.

I'm sorry, I just find this a bit hilarious. If an opinion of a handful of people on BSN is enough to deem it "a common theme on BSN" then I am skeptical of the quality of sample of all those places and people "everywhere else"

I have no strong feelings on tac cam, personally. I like it enough to use it when I need it or if I want to be more strategic - but there's just more to combat than tac cam and ultimately it all comes to how many of its elements come together. I'm replaying DAO now and I still can't get into that combat system - though I think this has more to do with with pacing and mobility.

There was no tac cam in Dragon's Dogma tho, a 4-party game generally lauded for its combat, and I happen to really like combat there as well (so do many DA devs for that matter, from what I've observed) - it's super-fun. Would that system work in a game that gives us a direct command over companions? Dunno, maybe - maybe it would require more commands or modifiable AI. Either way I'm not going to cry if there's no tac cam if combat is just fun, which - again, for me has a lot to for with pacing and general mobility of the party (+ a lot of opportunities for combos!) and how things come together.

I disaggree that tac cam is neccessary too.

Nightmare difficulty, several Trials on



Hard difficulty, several Trials on




What I use tac cam for:
- putting down Dispel/Resurrection, because it's just easier to see where the demons spawn / the corpses of my companions are. <-- Neccessary? No. Just easier.
- taking screenshots

I'm always up for giving the mods more work to do.

@couchjockey
@sofarider
@lounginghorseman
...

Not working

I think it's more the system just hates me

@reclininghippophile

... nup, I give up

There's a lot of stupidity on the net. Surely this is not news to you.

Although I suppose it's possible that there are lower levels of gameplay skill where tac cam is useful. Say, if a player has poor spatial awareness and can't stay oriented without a top-down view? I'm guessing, though.