LazarusV2
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LazarusV2
Gamer, Storyteller, and very occasionally unwelcome tagalong...
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lazarusv2
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Post by LazarusV2 on Feb 4, 2019 16:28:02 GMT
I can understand the elves who romanced Solas feeling that way, but a one-handed archer Inquisitor is not going to be a lot of use in a battle. It is time to hand over the torch to the next lucky winner of the "Here is the end of the world, go sort it out." award. Two words: prosthetic hand. And if they wanted to have it being a case where the torch needs to be passed, they could not have failed more than they had. PS: I’m not a Solasmancer so it isn’t just those people who feel this way. I think that the main problem with this issue (and I think that it comes both from future players and of course the developers) is that Dragon Age is not Mass Effect in terms of "continuity of one persons story" and I personally think that Inquisition is example of this. I mean if the DAI didn't have Epilogue through Trespasser, I would really consider that the DA4 would make exception of having the same protagonist in another game because the Inquisition had ending but it also had that one little but very critical post-credit scene which implies that the Inquisitor and mainly Solas is not done yet. But then came Trespasser and it shows us the "real" ending of Inquisitor's and Inquisiton journey. Of course that the option of remaining Inquisiton as the protectors of Divine is broking this concept in some ways but still, the disbanding is the real ending for the Inquisition "both for the title of game and of course for the Inquisitor" in his/her role as the main leader. But we all probably knew that the ending choice of Kill/Redeem Solas wasn't likely there just so it can be there. I think this will be the starting point of the DA4 and the new protagonist (if we will have him) will firstly face this particular choice from DAI. But to return to my main point of writing this, I think that having the Inquisitor as main protagonist for DA4 isn't going to happen because (and things that comes are just my personal opinion) unlike for example Mass Effect 2 or 3 I get the feeling that as Inquisitor we experienced "everything" that we could. I mean we could get married/engagement, we have atleast few loyal friends who would have contact with us and this also ties to developing of this concept. Developers would have to include atleast few companions from DAI in DA4 because "hey I am friend with Iron Bull, Blackwall, Sera, Cassandra is my future wife and I surely knew they wouldn't left me" and so on. The ME2 resolved this smartly but for price that we "lost" one game to utterly new people, new things etc. with only "few hints" that there even was some first ME. So all the friendship/rivalry, romance and many other things would be already done from the times of DAI and for me, it would make sense to for example continue romance with Cass, because we already reach the point where we are basically married and I think that there isn't much options where to go (from the gameplay and design of course.) Not the mention that Bioware always want new players to play their newest game withous explicity play the ones before the new in the series and having the main returning character is confusing for someone who did not know him (again ME series did that but from my view, it was always at least a little bit weird because I perceive ME something like Lotr trilogy where on part is tied to another while DA is following the Thedas history and it's events by the eyes of different individuals who always end up in "bad places at bad times" only to became on the people who can change things for better or worse.) So my ideal DA4 plan is (and I think that there is somewhere here a poll about it) that we play a new character, who will ofcourse meet the remains of the Inquisition and decide for it's own if he/she want to follow the Inquisitor's plan for either killing/saving Solas or dissagree with them and put him/herself to it's own path of solving the problems we will face but with one twist, that in DA4 there would be atleast one passage where we will take control of our Inquisitor from DAI and make some significant choice based on what we as the Inquisitor knew from DAI, JoH, Descent and Trespasser. And I mean we can only really speculate here and it can only be for the trailer itself and it's not in the actual game, but I get the feeling that Solas's words from teaser "So you found me at last. I suspect you have question." was addressed to the Inquisitor, who after a long time a perhaps some very challenging path will finally found Solas and so he greets you like an old friend/foe, who was looking for him for a very long time. Sorry for long and maybe confused text. Sometimes I lose myself in the excitement of the new DA when I think about it
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Post by Gilli on Feb 4, 2019 16:37:40 GMT
With ESO you pay initial full price for the game and have to buy all DLCs/expansions (known as Chapters), but other than that the game can be played for free with no sub. What paying subscription gives me is access to ALL DLCs save for Chapters. Similar models can be utilized with EA Access, especially if - like in case of Sims 4 - the amount of paid content released over years gets pretty pricey. Imagine that you're not as hardcore of a fan, or don't have money for all DLCs but you still want to play them... you then pay for a month of sub and use that month or two to play it all. So the subscription offer may not be targeted specifically at us - but we're a very small percentage of people that buy and play this stuff repeatedly. Most players just play games (esp. of this scope) maybe once, so them getting access to the full game with all the goodies to play once or twice would be a decent deal. And if they like it enough, the sub could bring new hardcore fans that will buy the content permanently for themselves. Also, with ESO+ you get the ammount of money you paid in Crowns, which let you buy the DLCs. So technically by subbing for a few months you could buy the DLCs and then stop subbing and still fully play the game. The only things you'd really lose is the Crafting Bag (bless the Craft Bag, my Inventory wouldn't be the same without it) and 10% extra Exp. They also added the Morrowind Chapter to ESO+ when Summerset came out and will probably do the same with Summerset when Elsweyr comes out. excuse my gushing, I love ESO
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 4, 2019 16:49:07 GMT
Two words: prosthetic hand. And if they wanted to have it being a case where the torch needs to be passed, they could not have failed more than they had. PS: I’m not a Solasmancer so it isn’t just those people who feel this way. I think that the main problem with this issue (and I think that it comes both from future players and of course the developers) is that Dragon Age is not Mass Effect in terms of "continuity of one persons story" and I personally think that Inquisition is example of this. I mean if the DAI didn't have Epilogue through Trespasser, I would really consider that the DA4 would make exception of having the same protagonist in another game because the Inquisition had ending but it also had that one little but very critical post-credit scene which implies that the Inquisitor and mainly Solas is not done yet. But then came Trespasser and it shows us the "real" ending of Inquisitor's and Inquisiton journey. Of course that the option of remaining Inquisiton as the protectors of Divine is broking this concept in some ways but still, the disbanding is the real ending for the Inquisition "both for the title of game and of course for the Inquisitor" in his/her role as the main leader. But we all probably knew that the ending choice of Kill/Redeem Solas wasn't likely there just so it can be there. I think this will be the starting point of the DA4 and the new protagonist (if we will have him) will firstly face this particular choice from DAI. But to return to my main point of writing this, I think that having the Inquisitor as main protagonist for DA4 isn't going to happen because (and things that comes are just my personal opinion) unlike for example Mass Effect 2 or 3 I get the feeling that as Inquisitor we experienced "everything" that we could. I mean we could get married/engagement, we have atleast few loyal friends who would have contact with us and this also ties to developing of this concept. Developers would have to include atleast few companions from DAI in DA4 because "hey I am friend with Iron Bull, Blackwall, Sera, Cassandra is my future wife and I surely knew they wouldn't left me" and so on. The ME2 resolved this smartly but for price that we "lost" one game to utterly new people, new things etc. with only "few hints" that there even was some first ME. So all the friendship/rivalry, romance and many other things would be already done from the times of DAI and for me, it would make sense to for example continue romance with Cass, because we already reach the point where we are basically married and I think that there isn't much options where to go (from the gameplay and design of course.) Not the mention that Bioware always want new players to play their newest game withous explicity play the ones before the new in the series and having the main returning character is confusing for someone who did not know him (again ME series did that but from my view, it was always at least a little bit weird because I perceive ME something like Lotr trilogy where on part is tied to another while DA is following the Thedas history and it's events by the eyes of different individuals who always end up in "bad places at bad times" only to became on the people who can change things for better or worse.) So my ideal DA4 plan is (and I think that there is somewhere here a poll about it) that we play a new character, who will ofcourse meet the remains of the Inquisition and decide for it's own if he/she want to follow the Inquisitor's plan for either killing/saving Solas or dissagree with them and put him/herself to it's own path of solving the problems we will face but with one twist, that in DA4 there would be atleast one passage where we will take control of our Inquisitor from DAI and make some significant choice based on what we as the Inquisitor knew from DAI, JoH, Descent and Trespasser. And I mean we can only really speculate here and it can only be for the trailer itself and it's not in the actual game, but I get the feeling that Solas's words from teaser "So you found me at last. I suspect you have question." was addressed to the Inquisitor, who after a long time a perhaps some very challenging path will finally found Solas and so he greets you like an old friend/foe, who was looking for him for a very long time. Sorry for long and maybe confused text. Sometimes I lose myself in the excitement of the new DA when I think about it Like what has been posted before, I think if "Trespasser" never existed, "DA4" would obviously be in the hands of a new protagonist but, with the final where the Inquisitor, Josie, Cassandra and Leliana meet in secret and your Inquisitor explicitly stabs at Tervinter, I think it is heavily implied that the remnants of the Inquisition will be heavy players in the upcoming sequel. I don't know how much it plays into the "New Protag vs Same Protag" but "Dragon Age: Inquisition" was Gaider/Laidlaw-led production while "Trespasser" was heavily influenced by Patrick Weekes and John Epler, per their Twitter posts. While Mark Darrah is still supposedly leading the production, maybe with Weekes/Epler with more influence it changes the course of the franchise towards having the Inquisitor making a bigger impact...the fact "DA:I" was BioWare's most successful launch doesn't hurt that fact either. I think, ultimately, the Inquisitor comes back as either the main protag or as leader of a council guiding the main protag.
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LazarusV2
N1
Gamer, Storyteller, and very occasionally unwelcome tagalong...
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Gamer, Storyteller, and very occasionally unwelcome tagalong...
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Post by LazarusV2 on Feb 4, 2019 17:01:02 GMT
I have no doubt's that the Inquisitor will return and at least his very inner circle with him/her. I just thing that having him/her and the others as NPC/Advisors/Mentors/Companions (this one I hope it will be Harding as one of the main connection to DAI, maybe even Dorian) is simply from gameplay and design point of view a wiser option than have him/her returning as the main protagonist which we will control for 99% - 100% of the game On the other hand, I could imagine it that it would be like in Andromeda (of course here in DA4 I would want it much more longer and more meaningful to the story perhaps with some tough choices) where we take control of the other sibling for a short period of time for the critical part of it's story, much like I mentioned it in my wall of text (I am thinking of meeting with Solas in some part or at least in the ending of the game.)
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 4, 2019 19:25:17 GMT
Jay Watamaniuk @jaywatamaniukA little bit of Anthem creeping into the fancy Wall of Awesome things here at work.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 4, 2019 19:44:28 GMT
I would really consider that the DA4 would make exception of having the same protagonist in another game because the Inquisition had ending but it also had that one little but very critical post-credit scene which implies that the Inquisitor and mainly Solas is not done yet. I think you missed the point in my previous post. At the end of the main game, we as players witness the scene between Flemeth and Solas but the Inquisitor does not. So far as they are concerned Solas just left after the battle and it turns out the history he gave of himself did not entirely pan out. That wasn't something that the Inquisitor would be that bothered about. Early on when we were talking at Haven and we are regarding Solas as just a lone apostate, he was hinting he was worried about what would happen once we had dealt with Corypheus because of his status. Particularly if we do not end up freeing the mages or putting Leliana on the Divine's throne, it is understandable that he might think it expedient to disappear. There is no reason why the Inquisitor should feel an urgent need to track him down. But then came Trespasser and it shows us the "real" ending of Inquisitor's and Inquisiton journey. It ends the story of the PC as Lord Inquisitor of Thedas but it does not end their involvement in the Solas plot. Rather it does the complete opposite. Only the PC has the private interview with Solas. Nobody else witnesses his declaration. Rather than answer the questions I had in mind, he very much directed the conversation the way he wanted. Essentially to tell you his future intent. This seemed odd from his point of view if he didn't want to be stopped. He also saves the life of the Inquisitor even if he hates their guts. To be totally honest, if the writers had wanted to tie off the DAI PC's role in the story they should have let the anchor kill them. Then to compound the personal investment of the PC in the future story, they show the epilogue which confirms that the DAI PC is behind any future pursuit of Solas whether to simply kill him or save him. So I don't doubt they intend to have a new main PC in the next game but as a player I will constantly be wondering when my old PC is going to make an appearance. They may no longer be Inquisitor but their personal story hasn't ended and won't have done until Solas is either stopped or killed.
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LazarusV2
N1
Gamer, Storyteller, and very occasionally unwelcome tagalong...
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Gamer, Storyteller, and very occasionally unwelcome tagalong...
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by LazarusV2 on Feb 4, 2019 20:59:40 GMT
I would really consider that the DA4 would make exception of having the same protagonist in another game because the Inquisition had ending but it also had that one little but very critical post-credit scene which implies that the Inquisitor and mainly Solas is not done yet. I think you missed the point in my previous post. At the end of the main game, we as players witness the scene between Flemeth and Solas but the Inquisitor does not. So far as they are concerned Solas just left after the battle and it turns out the history he gave of himself did not entirely pan out. That wasn't something that the Inquisitor would be that bothered about. Early on when we were talking at Haven and we are regarding Solas as just a lone apostate, he was hinting he was worried about what would happen once we had dealt with Corypheus because of his status. Particularly if we do not end up freeing the mages or putting Leliana on the Divine's throne, it is understandable that he might think it expedient to disappear. There is no reason why the Inquisitor should feel an urgent need to track him down. But then came Trespasser and it shows us the "real" ending of Inquisitor's and Inquisiton journey. It ends the story of the PC as Lord Inquisitor of Thedas but it does not end their involvement in the Solas plot. Rather it does the complete opposite. Only the PC has the private interview with Solas. Nobody else witnesses his declaration. Rather than answer the questions I had in mind, he very much directed the conversation the way he wanted. Essentially to tell you his future intent. This seemed odd from his point of view if he didn't want to be stopped. He also saves the life of the Inquisitor even if he hates their guts. To be totally honest, if the writers had wanted to tie off the DAI PC's role in the story they should have let the anchor kill them. Then to compound the personal investment of the PC in the future story, they show the epilogue which confirms that the DAI PC is behind any future pursuit of Solas whether to simply kill him or save him. So I don't doubt they intend to have a new main PC in the next game but as a player I will constantly be wondering when my old PC is going to make an appearance. They may no longer be Inquisitor but their personal story hasn't ended and won't have done until Solas is either stopped or killed. Well maybe I didn't make it clear what I originaly wanted to say so pardon me if there was confusion. I only wanted to say that from the perspective of the real player behind the monitor, I don't see much points why should the Inquisitor be the main controled protagonist in DA4. Od course as you mentioned and as I mentioned the involvement of the Inquisitor isn't done but I really thought and I think that you also meant it that way that the involment of Trevelyan/Lavellan/Cadash/Adaar isn't done in some way but the role of the Inquisitor and Inquisiton is done by the end of Trespasser. I thought of it maybe as the analogy for the story of the Champion of the Kirkwall which is done by the end of DA2, but the story of Hawke isn't finished by the end of DA2. I also meant it by the gameplay aspect that it wouldn't make that much sense because it would need for example to continue all relationships with our inner circle, all romances etc. and to top of that, it would need to include a brand new types of this things which I believe would be to much complicated to implement as a player controlled character. But as the NPC "former Inquisitor", who will with no doubt play significant role in DA4 or at least we can hope if they didn't choose him/her to be main protagonist or something else, I see they can reflect our choices and other things from DAI but have a fresh and new state for new type o character who will we play. In short version by all this I meant to say that from my point of view the Inquisitor would functioned better if he/she is very important NPC who will help us and perhaps guide our new character rather then we will play again as him/her because it would be difficult and maybe too much complex to bring all old companions and advisors and other things from DAI and add fresh new ones to it. But that's just my point of view who knows what have folks at Bioware in the store.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 5, 2019 2:16:21 GMT
Nothing says that the old companions are going to come along with the Inquisitor if they are DA4's protagonist, though. Though I do expect several of them to make appearances at some point, all in some way having to do with the Solas hunt. Dorian's prolly gonna be there from the beginning, of course, but I also expect Harding and Cassandra to be about somewhere. You could easily add in letters or cameos from the others depending on world state. I don't expect them to be companions this time around, but I'd be surprised if we don't see t least some faces from Inquisition make an appearance at some point.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 5, 2019 2:20:54 GMT
Nothing says that the old companions are going to come along with the Inquisitor if they are DA4's protagonist, though. Though I do expect several of them to make appearances at some point, all in some way having to do with the Solas hunt. Dorian's prolly gonna be there from the beginning, of course, but I also expect Harding and Cassandra to be about somewhere. You could easily add in letters or cameos from the others depending on world state. I don't expect them to be companions this time around, but I'd be surprised if we don't see t least some faces from Inquisition make an appearance at some point. I personally doubt we'll see Cass, but i want to. There can never be enough Cass.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 5, 2019 2:50:33 GMT
Nothing says that the old companions are going to come along with the Inquisitor if they are DA4's protagonist, though. Though I do expect several of them to make appearances at some point, all in some way having to do with the Solas hunt. Dorian's prolly gonna be there from the beginning, of course, but I also expect Harding and Cassandra to be about somewhere. You could easily add in letters or cameos from the others depending on world state. I don't expect them to be companions this time around, but I'd be surprised if we don't see t least some faces from Inquisition make an appearance at some point. I picture something like Mass Effect 3, where your past companions are involved in side quests that support the main quest. If they are dead either the quest doesn’t happen or there is a replacement NPC.
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Post by apollexander on Feb 5, 2019 4:35:08 GMT
I think the devs and publishers are also trying to figure out a reasonable monetization model, as the previous model with big and infrequent DLCs could not work well. In these days AAA games need to keep being popular, played and discussed as long as possible. If not ('dead game'), then releasing new content is at high risk in business. For example, after releasing DAI, it had been almost silent for several months, and JoH came, and another silent months. I guess the DLCs were not sold well (see the completion rate of achievements). In a word, they want players to be more engaged, so they can react quickly and release contents more frequently. In anthem, they will release free contents on gameplay and only charge for cosmetic things. Let's wait and see if that works.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 5, 2019 5:05:15 GMT
I think the devs and publishers are also trying to figure out a reasonable monetization model, as the previous model with big and infrequent DLCs could not work well. In these days AAA games need to keep being popular, played and discussed as long as possible. If not ('dead game'), then releasing new content is at high risk in business. For example, after releasing DAI, it had been almost silent for several months, and JoH came, and another silent months. I guess the DLCs were not sold well (see the completion rate of achievements). In a word, they want players to be more engaged, so they can react quickly and release contents more frequently. In anthem, they will release free contents on gameplay and only charge for cosmetic things. Let's wait and see if that works. This is exactly the goal and it makes perfect sense. The trouble is that a lot of people, even 'BioWare fans' lose interest in the series when either A. they didn't like the last game that much or B. if it takes 3,4,5 years between game realeases. People forget, people move on, people lose interest and developers are realizing that. Now some of them just release games every year because they don't care about quality OR they have many studios world wide that can work on games simultaneously but with BioWare...they have to find another way. Enter Live Service and hopefully enter a DA 4 life cycle that can release new (hopefully quality) content over a year, or even more. That way instead of waiting five years between releases we might just have to wait one as they put the finishing touches on it. Now of course we don't know which way EA will jump for one hundred percent sure on this and the industry is trying to figure this out, but I for one am very excited for the future. I would love to see a DA 4 game that I can be playing new stuff in it for years to come.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 5, 2019 18:45:36 GMT
John Epler @eplerjcTrespasser is a great example of what I think of as the 'DLC Paradox'. Either make it meaningful, and people will argue it should've been part of the main game, or make it a fluffy side adventure, and people will ask why they should bother buying it. Dóris @dordoris[...] But that is the thing. I think Trespasser is excellent, but it should be in the game, you know? Jaws of hakkon is a good example of what a good dlc is. It has a nice story, but it’s not essential. I think trespasser is essential. John Epler @eplerjcUnfortunately, the options weren't 'Trespasser as DLC' or 'Trespasser in the main game', they were 'Trespasser as DLC' or 'no Trespasser'. That it felt essential was because we wanted it to feel meaningful - and like I said, I get that can be frustrating to players. On a personal level, I enjoyed making Trespasser a lot more than Hakkon because it felt so meaningful, and it continued the story/lore. But it's a hard line to walk because the flip side is people feel upset that it wasn't part of the main game.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 5, 2019 19:00:01 GMT
No way should tresspasser been in the main game. It wasnt essential and really would have bloated things.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 5, 2019 19:05:32 GMT
No way should tresspasser been in the main game. It wasnt essential and really would have bloated things. It certainly would have a different impact. Nevermind that I think it was special to get something meaningful a year after release, back when we didn't think we'd get much aside from auxiliary materials to keep us going during the lull.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 5, 2019 19:21:50 GMT
No way should tresspasser been in the main game. It wasnt essential and really would have bloated things. Yeah...it was expressed quite succinctly in the quote: "Unfortunately, the options weren't 'Trespasser as DLC' or 'Trespasser in the main game', they were 'Trespasser as DLC' or 'no Trespasser" "Trespasser" was significant because it committed the next "Dragon Age" game in a certain direction that it possibly would not have headed had they just adhered to the ending of the base game. Now, the Inquisition, in any of its forms left after the decision in front of the council, is a major player in the events of franchise going forward.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 5, 2019 19:29:29 GMT
Hannah Kennedy @hothamboneHi, it's 2019 and im still thinking about Blackwall objectively the most attractive video game boy no further questions Apparently when you disable the beard model in the game, there is another beard underneath. Sheryl @sherylcheeEmergent storytelling.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Feb 5, 2019 19:51:06 GMT
It was the same with DAO (Witch Hunt/Awakening) and DA2 (Legacy).
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 5, 2019 20:55:44 GMT
Never played jaws of Hakkon.
think legacy and mark of the assassin in da2 though were both examples of good story dlc. Don’t think they were fluffy.
My issue with trespasser is less the lore but more it acts as effectively a replacement epilogue.
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Post by Zemgus on Feb 5, 2019 21:21:07 GMT
Woah I never knew Blackwall could be so hot!
Also, maybe Trespasser should've been a free DLC (personally I don't mind paying for it but that would have been fair) - but the real issue with it was that those who bought DAI for old gen consoles could not play it. That's kinda unforgivable imo.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 5, 2019 21:54:12 GMT
Also, maybe Trespasser should've been a free DLC (personally I don't mind paying for it but that would have been fair) - but the real issue with it was that those who bought DAI for old gen consoles could not play it. That's kinda unforgivable imo. They can play it, just not on old gen. Anyway, out of two options - a small % unable to play it or us all never getting to play a very well regarded piece of essential storyline/lore DLC - the latter seems way more sensible than the former.
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 5, 2019 22:04:30 GMT
If the choice comes down to Trespasser DLC versus no epilogue to DAI, I choose the DLC.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 5, 2019 22:09:56 GMT
Also, maybe Trespasser should've been a free DLC (personally I don't mind paying for it but that would have been fair) - but the real issue with it was that those who bought DAI for old gen consoles could not play it. That's kinda unforgivable imo. I don't think there's a universe where EA throws that much money into a free DLC.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 5, 2019 22:37:55 GMT
If we don’t continue as the Inquisitor in DA4, it would have been far better for Trespasser to have never been created.
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midnight tea
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20,631
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 5, 2019 22:47:59 GMT
If we don’t continue as the Inquisitor in DA4, it would have been far better for Trespasser to have never been created. I don't think that's true, and I want Inquisitor to show up in a vital role probably as much as you do. Even if Inky won't show up (which I find unlikely anyway) Trespasser has set up the next title, fleshed out important lore about Fen'Harel/ancient elves/eluvians/Qunari invasion and positioned Inquisition where it should be, thus allowing the next title to jump farther in time without being bogged down with explaining any of it and us collectively going 'huh... where did that come from???' or 'how did that happen!?'
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