Schmooples' Den! The DA News Discussion Thread

Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes
Off to SDCC with @karinweekes and the kids! Hope to see some of you there!

Wouldn't that last bit have more of an influence for some of us to perceive that the game influences MC to be Andrastians? Like, regardless whether a character is a human or not, the story is built around a someone who - for a time, at least - became a subject of intense focus for that faith and gains political power largely through it?

And this isn't necessarily because 'they want us to be Andrastians' or ignoring flaws of the religion - as mentioned before, the Chantry goes through a pretty brutal metaphorical beating in DAI and the idea that the Herald really could be a genuine article empowered by Andraste/Maker becomes more and more distant the more we learn about what really happened with the Anchor or we unveil the secrets of ancient past.

And I'm not really sure in what other way this particular story could be told? In a world as divided and South as dominated by Chantry as it is, there isn't an angle that works this well to tell the story of leader like Inquisitor. Like... the Andrastian faith isn't the point here, even if we ended up only with an option of playing a devout human Inquisitor. It's a conduit for things to happen, for certain things to be planted and some themes to be explored.
I think that may be sort of the crux of the problem - the world isn't how it seems and most groups may have fragments of truth, but otherwise get it pretty wrong... and I suspect some folks expected some vindication for some of their chosen groups that ultimately ain't coming. Besides, be it in DAI or DAO I can't say I've really felt that the Dalish were ever supposed to be the answer for woes of all the elves, especially given (however understandable) isolationist tendencies and many clans' exclusionary politics.
"Didn't get out perfectly" is putting it mildly I'm not exactly sure what is there that we dug out that really supports Chantry's beliefs, in contrast to all those things we learn that fly against them. The institution itself was also portrayed as one in need of deep reform to just survive from the very start, which is why we get Inquisition (as an organization) in the first place.

Anyway - I think many people make too much out of Bioware's declarations that they are not going to reveal whether there's Maker or not. I think we are going there, especially in a sense of proving or disproving Chantry's Maker (as pointed out, a lot has already happened in this regard).

But given how much the Chantry is inspired by some IRL religions, we know already that even entirely faith-shattering discoveries don't necessarily have to eviscerate faith or belief in a specific deity.

To put it simply - goalposts are going to be moved.

They better keep the ambiguity about the Maker.

I think their statement about not revealing if the Maker was real or not may have been misunderstood. Would they ever show definitively that there was a First Cause behind the creation of the Thedas universe, then the answer is no. Even the Dalish believe that there was something before Elgar'nan and Mythal appeared and thus room is left for a mysterious creator that can never be proven one way or the other.

However, if it is a case of showing the identity of the entity that spoke with Andraste, then the answer is probably yes. Also, when it comes to Thedas in its present state then we already know who the creator is, Solas. As the elves largely went into retreat when this event occurs, it also makes perfect sense of the Chant of Light focussing on human centric world. Why does the Chant seem to suggest there was always a Veil? Because that is the current state of reality.

It's just something I actually respected them doing. So if they do go against that and decide to disprove it then it just further damages my opinion of their writing capabilities. 

I think we may have to agree to disagree here.

as has been pointed out I don't think they'll ever answer the question of 'is there a one true God, creator of the universe, grand mufti of them all'. But they could easily add context to that through new discoveries of things attributed to the maker we find out aren't.

What, you mean like it happens in the real world? Yea, because we're all atheists here, now that we can be reasonably sure that that the world is not how most religions imagined it to be for ages...

(I mean, I am an atheist, but still very much in a minority)

Last I checked, the real world never had some ancient figure come out and definitively disprove a key part of the world's religions. 

So Bioware be like "Okay, we broke our promise and made the Maker not exist. But you can go ahead and have your characters still believe they do if you want." 
Like I said before, another strike against their writing capabilities. 

The way they have shown it in the past is that the people in the know (usually nobles and people in power) have a wonderful tendency to stick their heads in the sand and ignore anything that doesn't fit with their world view and beliefs, whilst the average peasant never gets to hear the truth at all.

In DA2 Hawke found definitive proof that the Qunari have agents across southern Thedas. Not only was this ignored in Kirkwall (particularly surprising if the Arishok had already attacked them) but even Leliana would not have appeared to take it seriously enough to properly vet people in her organisation, particularly elves from Kirkwall.

In DAI it is proven beyond doubt that our mark was not a gift of Andraste/the Maker and we were not in fact some Herald sent by them. Yet, we are advised to play down this knowledge where the ordinary people are concerned as it would be bad for morale and those in the know engage in a cover up.

At the end of Trespasser it says this in the epilogue about the disappearance of the elves: "None could say where they went, but those who believed the Inquisitor's story about Fen'Harel wondered just how large the Dread Wolf's forces were... and what the ancient elven rebel had planned."

Notice it says, "those who believed". Despite having had information from the person responsible for the Veil himself, people apparently still prefer to think that either the Inquisitor was exaggerating Solas' importance or possibly made the whole thing up. You will also recall that in the voice over of Teagan just before we enter the Exalted Council minus an arm, Teagan seems more concerned that we might have stirred up hostilities with the Qunari than the greater threat that Solas present. So, did they not tell him and the other council members or did they just refuse to believe?

well you can't exactly blame them... the Solas threat is mystical, the Qunari one isn't. Plus this is a tech base far below mass communication so you can hardly blame people for thinking event x is rumor.