We are assuming that in the lore they created Bioware made the world without a deity. I think the chances of a deity like the Maker being present in DA are still as high as the opposite. The problem is, that it’s unlikely to be exactly as Andrastian faith thought it to be, given the revelations in the last game and its dlc. And it’s further proven to be the case as the other two deitistic religions in Thedas, the Elven one and Old Gods one, have been either disproven to be as their believers though to be (the first), or already with likely chances to be also different (the last).
Wheter they’ll decide to leave its existence in a limbo, it’s another matter. Regardless if they do, I’m more inclined to think a ‘Maker’ of soft exists, but it’s different in some way (and not only for the feats it didn’t accomplish, according to Solas), from the one worshipped in Thedas.
I don't necessarily think anyone here is assuming that they've created the world with no chief deity of the whole existence or something - what is being contested now is the idea that the Maker is that chief deity or that the Maker, as it is understood in Thedas, corresponds with what that potential deity actually is.
Last Edit: Jul 17, 2019 21:11:31 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
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In DA2 Hawke found definitive proof that the Qunari have agents across southern Thedas. Not only was this ignored in Kirkwall (particularly surprising if the Arishok had already attacked them) but even Leliana would not have appeared to take it seriously enough to properly vet people in her organisation, particularly elves from Kirkwall.
I was under the impression that the Qunari having agents in thedas wasn’t really news in and of itself. It’s a bit like saying “foreign intelligence agency has agents in the United States.” It doesn’t matter much what country you’re talking about, they probably do have agents there doing something, even if they haven’t infiltrated anything important. And I’m pretty sure Leliana’s negligence is down to the chaos of the Inquisition’s founding. Properly vetting every recruit while you’re scrambling for manpower to combat an apocalypse is hard. That she didn’t get around to it in the subsequent years is the bigger problem.
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In DA2 Hawke found definitive proof that the Qunari have agents across southern Thedas. Not only was this ignored in Kirkwall (particularly surprising if the Arishok had already attacked them) but even Leliana would not have appeared to take it seriously enough to properly vet people in her organisation, particularly elves from Kirkwall.
I was under the impression that the Qunari having agents in thedas wasn’t really news in and of itself. It’s a bit like saying “foreign intelligence agency has agents in the United States.” It doesn’t matter much what country you’re talking about, they probably do have agents there doing something, even if they haven’t infiltrated anything important. And I’m pretty sure Leliana’s negligence is down to the chaos of the Inquisition’s founding. Properly vetting every recruit while you’re scrambling for manpower to combat an apocalypse is hard. That she didn’t get around to it in the subsequent years is the bigger problem.
Subsequent years don't seem to be any less hectic tho. Given how much has happened one can't imagine that things went back to relative normal in short few years. And in Trespasser we have lines (between Inky and Josephine) that suggest that Inquisition was not only no less busy, but may even have been busier - just not with stuff that is as epic as stopping Cory, but all the ways those in power tried to pull more of that power to themselves in the aftermath. The impression I got was that Inquisition/Inquisitor becoming problematic/corrupt at places is because of all that drudgery of politicking.
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2019 20:09:36 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
I think there's a good chance that the Inquisition hasn't shared much about Solas' plans both for the reason that midnight tea suggested (they need to keep their own plans etc. as secret as possible since they have no idea who might be working for Solas) and also because if it was generally known (and believed) that Solas, an elf, is planning to do something catastrophic to the world, you KNOW there'd be a wholesale slaughter of elves throughout Thedas pretty quick.
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2019 0:32:27 GMT by ladyiolanthe
In DA2 Hawke found definitive proof that the Qunari have agents across southern Thedas. Not only was this ignored in Kirkwall (particularly surprising if the Arishok had already attacked them) but even Leliana would not have appeared to take it seriously enough to properly vet people in her organisation, particularly elves from Kirkwall.
I was under the impression that the Qunari having agents in thedas wasn’t really news in and of itself. It’s a bit like saying “foreign intelligence agency has agents in the United States.” It doesn’t matter much what country you’re talking about, they probably do have agents there doing something, even if they haven’t infiltrated anything important. And I’m pretty sure Leliana’s negligence is down to the chaos of the Inquisition’s founding. Properly vetting every recruit while you’re scrambling for manpower to combat an apocalypse is hard. That she didn’t get around to it in the subsequent years is the bigger problem.
not to mention that the Inquisition was basically an 'organization with an organization'. They had at least 1 and arguably 2 semi independent organizations working for/ with them and I do believe there were implications of even more. To say nothing of the alliances they forged over the course of their exisistance. And all of those other organizations had their own burden to vet their own people which I doubt Leiliana and the main hub of the Inquisition would've gone too far out of their way to vet them, the organizations themselves yes, who they actually hired...doubtful.
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I think there's a good chance that the Inquisition hasn't shared much about Solas' plans both for the reason that midnight tea suggested (they need to keep their own plans etc. as secret as possible since they have no idea who might be working for Solas) and also because if it was generally known (and believed) that Solas, an elf, is planning to do something catastrophic to the world, you KNOW there'd be a wholesale slaughter of elves throughout Thedas pretty quick.
I agree that this was a good reason for not spreading the story, particularly for a Lavellan, yet they specifically state "Those who believed the Inquisitor's story", which suggest that enough people were told that some believed and some didn't. Clearly the group with us at the end believed our story and those were the same people that you would think could be trusted with keeping it secret. So who else was told and yet did not believe? Apparently their reaction to large scale disappearance of elven servants across the south was basically "good riddance" and nothing to worry about. Even without the world changing via the Veil type of event, you would think the idea that elves were flocking to join a new charismatic leader was something to be worried about. Yet apparently not.
I think there's a good chance that the Inquisition hasn't shared much about Solas' plans both for the reason that midnight tea suggested (they need to keep their own plans etc. as secret as possible since they have no idea who might be working for Solas) and also because if it was generally known (and believed) that Solas, an elf, is planning to do something catastrophic to the world, you KNOW there'd be a wholesale slaughter of elves throughout Thedas pretty quick.
I agree that this was a good reason for not spreading the story, particularly for a Lavellan, yet they specifically state "Those who believed the Inquisitor's story", which suggest that enough people were told that some believed and some didn't. Clearly the group with us at the end believed our story and those were the same people that you would think could be trusted with keeping it secret. So who else was told and yet did not believe? Apparently their reaction to large scale disappearance of elven servants across the south was basically "good riddance" and nothing to worry about. Even without the world changing via the Veil type of event, you would think the idea that elves were flocking to join a new charismatic leader was something to be worried about. Yet apparently not.
I've generally just assumed that the whole Inner Circle was told, and probably some leaders (King/Queen of Ferelden, Emperor/Empress of Orlais, various rulers in the Free Marches, for example...) BUT it probably {A} made sense for those who believed to keep mostly quiet about it since no one knows who's working for Solas and {B} probably was just brushed off as preposterous by those who didn't believe it. So if there are rumours going about that an "evil ancient elven god" is planning to destroy the world and the elves that have been disappearing are disappearing to join him, most people probably laugh it off.
The truth is that we don't really have a sense, per capita, how many elves have left. All we're told is that a bunch left the Inquisition and a bunch of servants have also left from across Thedas - but is that 90% of Inquisition elves and servants or is that only 15% of Inquisition elves and servants? Personally, I don't think it's such a large number that it's causing concern for people (other than those who do believe the Inquisitor's story) or convincing them that those rumours about Fen'Harel, if they exist, are true. We shall see how wrong I am in DA4!
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2019 13:44:04 GMT by ladyiolanthe
I think there's a good chance that the Inquisition hasn't shared much about Solas' plans both for the reason that midnight tea suggested (they need to keep their own plans etc. as secret as possible since they have no idea who might be working for Solas) and also because if it was generally known (and believed) that Solas, an elf, is planning to do something catastrophic to the world, you KNOW there'd be a wholesale slaughter of elves throughout Thedas pretty quick.
I thought I was apparently the only one who considers elf-extermination in DA4 very possible.
On the other hand, why should conservative andrastians (i.e. 'humanity first'-types) should advocate against this? The Chantry seems to be pretty fond of showing everyone how right they are and how everyone else is wrong (Just think about the whole "true" vs. "false" god(s) schtick).
We are assuming that in the lore they created Bioware made the world without a deity. I think the chances of a deity like the Maker being present in DA are still as high as the opposite. The problem is, that it’s unlikely to be exactly as Andrastian faith thought it to be, given the revelations in the last game and its dlc. And it’s further proven to be the case as the other two deitistic religions in Thedas, the Elven one and Old Gods one, have been either disproven to be as their believers though to be (the first), or already with likely chances to be also different (the last).
Wheter they’ll decide to leave its existence in a limbo, it’s another matter. Regardless if they do, I’m more inclined to think a ‘Maker’ of soft exists, but it’s different in some way (and not only for the feats it didn’t accomplish, according to Solas), from the one worshipped in Thedas.
I don't necessarily think anyone here is assuming that they've created the world with no chief deity of the whole existence or something - what is being contested now is the idea that the Maker is that chief deity or that the Maker, as it is understood in Thedas, corresponds with what that potential deity actually is.
Uhm. I do? Is there a golden rule out there saying that all fantasy universes need superior omni creator ubergod dieties? I've seen some complaints saying about DA's absent dieties elswehere, those apparently missing the point that DA is not a D&D game with various tiers of super-powered beings engaged in an eternal power struggle and messing up the lives of 'normals' in the process.
The 'burden of proof' of god(s) is quite problematic on its own. Non-believers usually go "go on and prove that the diety exists". Believers have an easy time, they just need to say "If you cannot disprove my god, it exists". Of course, it is quite hard to scientifically prove or disprove something that only exists in people's heads. And that is without even getting into the question of what constitutes a diety (or what does not).
I guess the situation after DAI is rather beneficial for the Chantry. They were are always insisting that only their religion/belief is true & right, with everything else being "false" or subordinate to it (as Giselle putting the Maker behind everything). Come the big revelations of Trespasser and to a lesser extend The Descend, and the Chantry folks could have their justification and go "We told you that we are right and your stuff is false and shit. We told you so! Hahaha! Bow to the Maker, betch! Bow to us!"
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2019 16:06:06 GMT by Buckeldemon
"Magic can't be made safe and it can't be destroyed. Fear makes men more dangerous than magic ever could." - Merrill
"Strength and steel are well and good, but magic is the true power in this world." - Wuunferth the Unliving
"Maschinen abgeschaltet, Ventilatoren kaputt! Alle ersticken und tot!"
I don't necessarily think anyone here is assuming that they've created the world with no chief deity of the whole existence or something - what is being contested now is the idea that the Maker is that chief deity or that the Maker, as it is understood in Thedas, corresponds with what that potential deity actually is.
Uhm. I do? Is there a golden rule out there saying that all fantasy universes need superior omni creator ubergod dieties? I've seen some complaints saying about DA's absent dieties elswehere, those apparently missing the point that DA is not a D&D game with various tiers of super-powered beings engaged in an eternal power struggle and messing up the lives of 'normals' in the process.
The 'burden of proof' of god(s) is quite problematic on its own. Non-believers usually go "go on and prove that the diety exists". Believers have an easy time, they just need to say "If you cannot disprove my god, it exists". Of course, it is quite hard to scientifically prove or disprove something that only exists in people's heads.
And that is without even getting into the question of what constitutes a diety (or what does not).
Which is why I don't think they are going to answer this question anyhow. It's futile. God of the Gaps argument shall prevail Even if it is going to be reasonably proven that Thedas itself doesn't have anything like... the big boss - then that boss is just going to be pushed farther and farther beyond the horizon. And when we reach the point of creation of the very universe (which I don't think we will in DA anyway) there will be those claiming that those universes had to begin somehow or that there are higher planes of existence governing those in the lower.
I just don't think Bioware is hellbent on creating an absolutely godless world and then prove anyone that there's not the Main God somewhere. The Maker, beings like Solas or Mythal or titles like Inquisition are enough to ponder questions about faith or nature of divinity and act as canvas to telling whatever story they want to tell, IMO.
I guess the situation after DAI is rather beneficial for the Chantry. They were are always insisting that only their religion/belief is true & right, with everything else being "false" or subordinate to it (as Giselle putting the Maker behind everything). Come the big revelations of Trespasser and to a lesser extend The Descend, and the Chantry folks could have their justification and go "We told you that we are right and your stuff is false and shit. We told you so! Hahaha! Bow to the Maker, betch! Bow to us!"
If you want to say that they'll try and bend over backwards to explain the massive discrepancies, then I say sure - it's not just religions that are good at rationalizations. But those revelations are a bit too big to not cause massive stirs and fractions within the Chantry.
After all, it's some of the elven beliefs that were vindicated and some of Chantry's main assumption have been eviscerated - the Veil is not a Maker's creation and the elvhen gods may have been a-holes but they existed AND - as Solas proves - at some point at least they've had the power to shape the world on a Maker-like scale. I mean... if there's one thing that the Chant of Light may have gotten right is that the actual Maker of this world is disappointed with his creation... but then again I don't see any devout Andrastian comfortable with the idea that they may have to start worshiping an elven apostate
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2019 22:22:18 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
I thought I was apparently the only one who considers elf-extermination in DA4 very possible.
On the other hand, why should conservative andrastians (i.e. 'humanity first'-types) should advocate against this? The Chantry seems to be pretty fond of showing everyone how right they are and how everyone else is wrong (Just think about the whole "true" vs. "false" god(s) schtick).
Consider who's in charge of the Chantry by the end of Inquisition:
Leliana, who honours the elves as far back as DAO by singing in their ancient language, and generally wants to bring non-humans into the Chantry fold.
Vivienne, who didn't give me any indication that she hates elves. She probably knew quite a few elven mages from her years in the Circle and doesn't seem to bear elves any ill will. Yes, she is a bit snarky about Fiona, but that snarkiness isn't about Fiona being an elf; it's about Fiona's political acumen (or lack thereof) leading to schism among the mages.
Or
Cassandra, who also didn't give me any indication that she hates elves. She also, in her own way, demonstrates a desire to bring elves into the Chantry fold - if you play as Lavellan, she does suggest that it wouldn't hurt for you to worship the Maker as well as the Creators.
None of them strike me as the type of Andrastian you mention, so why would they support a wholesale slaughter of elves or share information about Solas with the type of Andrastian who would? If the final scene in Trespasser is anything to go by, it seems that Cassandra and Leliana are taking Solas seriously. The revelation that he made the Veil, not the Maker, might not be something they'd want everyone to know, precisely because it would create a lot of chaos for Andrastians, and if one of them happens to be the Divine in your game, potentially undermine their power base. And that's probably why Vivienne would keep it quiet, too - I think everyone is probably wary of yet another schism in the Chantry.
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2019 20:18:56 GMT by ladyiolanthe
Uhm. I do? Is there a golden rule out there saying that all fantasy universes need superior omni creator ubergod dieties? I've seen some complaints saying about DA's absent dieties elswehere, those apparently missing the point that DA is not a D&D game with various tiers of super-powered beings engaged in an eternal power struggle and messing up the lives of 'normals' in the process.
The 'burden of proof' of god(s) is quite problematic on its own. Non-believers usually go "go on and prove that the diety exists". Believers have an easy time, they just need to say "If you cannot disprove my god, it exists". Of course, it is quite hard to scientifically prove or disprove something that only exists in people's heads.
And that is without even getting into the question of what constitutes a diety (or what does not).
Which is why I don't think they are going to answer this question anyhow. It's futile. God of the Gaps argument shall prevail Even if it is going to be reasonably proven that Thedas itself doesn't have anything like... the big boss - then that boss is just going to be pushed farther and farther beyond the horizon. And when we reach the point of creation of the very universe (which I don't think we will in DA anyway) there will be those claiming that those universes had to begin somehow or that there are higher planes of existence governing those in the lower.
I just don't think Bioware is hellbent on creating an absolutely godless world and then prove anyone that there's not the Main God somewhere. The Maker, beings like Solas or Mythal or titles like Inquisition are enough to ponder questions about faith or nature of divinity and act as canvas to telling whatever story they want to tell, IMO.
Well, I guess one cannot really "argue with believers". As I personally have no innate motivation to believe in anything as a "gap-closer" (especially not that stuff we were 'offered' for centuries), I'll just go ahead and say that, while we humans might not be able to imagine "what happened at the beginning" (or after our death, even trying to think about 'what if' might cause me physical headache) , that does not mean the universe was created by something - that is described by our own limited understanding that led to this question in the first place. Even if one would say that (a) god(s) kickstarted everything, that would still beg the question of "who made god then?". He/she/it 'just is' isn't a convincing argument in that regard. Perhaps I just don't want Bioware to promote M.A.I.N. G.O.D. / monotheism, especially not the kind that uses original sin and 'believe or burn' as a core concept. Brrgh. Give equal coverage to different ideas. As for not stepping on anybody's toes (mostly Christians in this case, I guess), they probably already did that, as there is no safety that no believer will be offended. I just have to remember that fuss and alleged burning of CDs that some creationist (ex-)fans of Nightwish in the US made when the band announced that songs of their newest album will feature passages of Richard Dawkin's works. There were enough players complaining about various degrees of "forced inclusion" and "politics being shoved into [their] throats" in the newer games. If Bioware would shove inverted Christianity Andrastianism, that would not be much better. It is easy to recognize if you're stepping on a non-believer's feet on the other hand.
I guess the situation after DAI is rather beneficial for the Chantry. They were are always insisting that only their religion/belief is true & right, with everything else being "false" or subordinate to it (as Giselle putting the Maker behind everything). Come the big revelations of Trespasser and to a lesser extend The Descend, and the Chantry folks could have their justification and go "We told you that we are right and your stuff is false and shit. We told you so! Hahaha! Bow to the Maker, betch! Bow to us!"
If you want to say that they'll try and bend over backwards to explain the massive discrepancies, then I say sure - it's not just religions that are good at rationalizations. But those revelations are a bit too big to not cause massive stirs and fractions within the Chantry.
After all, it's some of the elven beliefs that were vindicated and some of Chantry's main assumption have been eviscerated - the Veil is not a Maker's creation and the elvhen gods may have been a-holes but they existed AND - as Solas proves - at some point at least they've had the power to shape the world on a Maker-like scale. I mean... if there's one thing that the Chant of Light may have gotten right is that the actual Maker of this world is disappointed with his creation... but then again I don't see any devout Andrastian be comfortable with the idea that they may have to start worshiping an elven apostate
Well, I need to agree here. Question is what they'll (Bioware or the Chantry) do with it. The Divine cannot even claim that Solas just desecrated/fouled/whatever-he-did the "Makers" creation, I guess that would not add up. I'm still fond of the "Mythal is the Maker that contacted Andraste" idea.
I thought I was apparently the only one who considers elf-extermination in DA4 very possible.
On the other hand, why should conservative andrastians (i.e. 'humanity first'-types) should advocate against this? The Chantry seems to be pretty fond of showing everyone how right they are and how everyone else is wrong (Just think about the whole "true" vs. "false" god(s) schtick).
Consider who's in charge of the Chantry by the end of Inquisition:
Leliana, who honours the elves as far back as DAO by singing in their ancient language, and generally wants to bring non-humans into the Chantry fold.
If she manages to bring non-humans that are already andrastian believers into equal standing, I have no issues with it. Wanting 'to bring others into the fold' though means not accepting that they might have their own beliefs and don't want Andrastianism forced onto them. That's actually my main issue with her; while Lel's other reforms sound good, even she does not address the "convert everyone" teachings.
Vivienne, who didn't give me any indication that she hates elves. She probably knew quite a few elven mages from her years in the Circle and doesn't seem to bear elves any ill will. Yes, she is a bit snarky about Fiona, but that snarkiness isn't about Fiona being an elf; it's about Fiona's political acumen (or lack thereof) leading to schism among the mages.
Viv might not hate elves, but I guess she will have no problem with having anyone killed, elf or not, as long as it benefits her. Agree about that Viv's attitude towards Fiona is not race hate. I guess it is more Viv's ususal "I'm right and I won't consider anything else, because I'm right." though.
Cassandra, who also didn't give me any indication that she hates elves. She also, in her own way, demonstrates a desire to bring elves into the Chantry fold - if you play as Lavellan, she does suggest that it wouldn't hurt for you to worship the Maker as well as the Creators.
... which is just incredibly arrogant if I think of it. Why she cannot just accept that other people have heir own beliefs? What about inverting the situation: suggesting Cassandra that she could worship the Creators as well? I guess she would scream "HERESY!!!" and probably explode - if we were able to suggest that.
None of them strike me as the type of Andrastian you mention, so why would they support a wholesale slaughter of elves or share information about Solas with the type of Andrastian who would? If the final scene in Trespasser is anything to go by, it seems that Cassandra and Leliana are taking Solas seriously. The revelation that he made the Veil, not the Maker, might not be something they'd want everyone to know, precisely because it would create a lot of chaos for Andrastians, and if one of them happens to be the Divine in your game, potentially undermine their power base. And that's probably why Vivienne would keep it quiet, too - I think everyone is probably wary of yet another schism in the Chantry.
Why should any elf care if an andrastian's life is bit rocked? The revelation about the Veil might shake beliefs, but not everyday life. Even real world monotheist are still around after all those challenges to their 'authority to explain the world'. The more schism, the better, I'd say. There is nothing wrong with decentralising all that power, except if you are the one loosing it.
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2019 23:16:07 GMT by Buckeldemon
"Magic can't be made safe and it can't be destroyed. Fear makes men more dangerous than magic ever could." - Merrill
"Strength and steel are well and good, but magic is the true power in this world." - Wuunferth the Unliving
"Maschinen abgeschaltet, Ventilatoren kaputt! Alle ersticken und tot!"
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The revelation that he made the Veil, not the Maker, might not be something they'd want everyone to know, precisely because it would create a lot of chaos for Andrastians, and if one of them happens to be the Divine in your game, potentially undermine their power base. And that's probably why Vivienne would keep it quiet, too - I think everyone is probably wary of yet another schism in the Chantry.
Vivienne might quite possibly be one of those people who doesn't believe the story about Solas. I definitely recall her being doubtful about a time when there was no Veil because it doesn't figure in the human histories she is familiar with. So she would be quite willing to believe Solas was behind the events at the Exalted Council, had agents in the Inquisition and was definitely up to something, but might well be sceptical about him being an actual elven legend come to life who had done all the things he claimed. Even if she was in the Crossroads with us, she would probably feel that much of the information we gained there came from spirits and so could not be trusted and even if it had been the work of some ancient elf "god", that didn't necessarily mean that Solas wasn't simply delusional in believing himself to be that entity. After all it is in the Crossroads and associated areas that we discover the elven gods were nothing more than extremely powerful mages and thus surely not capable of altering the Maker's reality on such a scale? Vivienne is not among those gathered together in the secret meeting at the end and she originally wanted to be part of the Inquisition so she was in a position to confront her enemy, which would surely have made her want to be involved with the hunt for Solas if she truly believed him to be the threat the Inquisitor claimed.
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2019 11:47:18 GMT by gervaise21
gervaise21 A fair analysis. I should have been clearer: I doubt a Divine Victoria Vivienne would want to create a schism in the Chantry as it would likely shatter a strong political power base for her. So that's why I was thinking that she'd keep things quiet. Whether that's by not mentioning it at all, or by making light of it a couple of times because she doesn't believe it would probably have the same effect in the long run.
gervaise21 A fair analysis. I should have been clearer: I doubt a Divine Victoria Vivienne would want to create a schism in the Chantry as it would likely shatter a strong political power base for her. So that's why I was thinking that she'd keep things quiet. Whether that's by not mentioning it at all, or by making light of it a couple of times because she doesn't believe it would probably have the same effect in the long run.
Yea, Vivienne is a status quo warrior - she doesn’t want to rattle the cage too much, because she knows the current system of power and how to play. Plus, the revelation that the Veil isn’t permanent and that an elf mage may want to tear it down may pose similar risk to mages as it does to elves. So I don’t think she’s going to knowingly sabotage it unless she has to or has found an angle that proves beneficial.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
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What the heck is triage?
Triage is when decisions are made as to what features, quests, etc. are kept, reprioritized, and which are cut. Bugs are triaged as well. This happens throughout development, to keep the project on-track.
Emily (aka Domino) Taylor pentapod “Now I’m going to add that song to the loading screen, so you have hear it ALL THE TIME.” “But then you’ll have to suffer too!” “Oh, I’m just never going to play the game again. This is why I live in Powerpoint.” #overheardintheoffice
Is there a golden rule out there saying that all fantasy universes need superior omni creator ubergod dieties? I've seen some complaints saying about DA's absent dieties elswehere, those apparently missing the point that DA is not a D&D game with various tiers of super-powered beings engaged in an eternal power struggle and messing up the lives of 'normals' in the process.
Even if it is going to be reasonably proven that Thedas itself doesn't have anything like... the big boss - then that boss is just going to be pushed farther and farther beyond the horizon. And when we reach the point of creation of the very universe (which I don't think we will in DA anyway) there will be those claiming that those universes had to begin somehow or that there are higher planes of existence governing those in the lower.
