inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,097
smilesja
14,567
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Nov 18, 2024 22:58:01 GMT
You clearly hate the game. Why are you here. Can't you go somewhere else. The skeptical thread anywhere but a FAN SITE. So critics of the game should be confined to just one thread while fans can go anywhere? Seems wrong. Also I never bashed anyone liking the game, I just gave my opinion on the news (this is a news thread) that Veilguard didn't get any nominations. Just like others did. Some people didn't like that and started discussing things. It's one thing to discuss the game not getting any nominations, it's another to come with conspiracy theories on how the game is universally hated. That's why people here are annoyed with you.
|
|
wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,810 Likes: 2,870
Member is Online
inherit
1492
0
Member is Online
Nov 25, 2024 16:47:28 GMT
2,870
wright1978
1,810
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
|
Post by wright1978 on Nov 18, 2024 22:58:24 GMT
It’s certainly a very negative outcome and I doubt internally they were like inquisition won but we don’t even want to be short listed. No it's not lol. Since when did people care about games journalists? I thought they were all paid off but now they're important again because a game you hate isn't nominated. Thinking there’s something fishy (whether it’s financial or more likely much too cosy relationships) in terms of wider games reviews process doesn’t obviate interest when they actually have to rank them, especially if there’s dissonance.
|
|
inherit
12815
0
Nov 25, 2024 15:39:40 GMT
285
journey95
172
Oct 28, 2024 21:56:00 GMT
October 2024
journey95
|
Post by journey95 on Nov 18, 2024 22:59:22 GMT
Really, I couldn't care less what goes on in the internet about the game. I do not look for approval of other people if I like a game or not. I do not care whether it's nominated for some award or not. It fascinates me to no end that people actually gather "evidence" of a game fail, when we STILL don't know how well it sold so far. EA will let us know, or not. But hey, now even I was curious and checked the German game charts. Veilguard is in 6th place, not too shabby I guess. Remember when there was no internet and all we did was play games for fun and we either liked them or not? Yeah... I think we only learned that Inquisition was the best-selling Bioware game to date and sold 12 million copies only shortly before release of Veilguard and mentioned off-handedly by a dev who's not working there anymore (well, working, but in a consultant role) We learned about it being Bioware's biggest success years ago..just not the exact numbers
|
|
inherit
12815
0
Nov 25, 2024 15:39:40 GMT
285
journey95
172
Oct 28, 2024 21:56:00 GMT
October 2024
journey95
|
Post by journey95 on Nov 18, 2024 22:59:57 GMT
So critics of the game should be confined to just one thread while fans can go anywhere? Seems wrong. Also I never bashed anyone liking the game, I just gave my opinion on the news (this is a news thread) that Veilguard didn't get any nominations. Just like others did. Some people didn't like that and started discussing things. There's a difference between being a critic and spreading conspiracy theories. Fair enough. I can stop with that since its not a 100% sure thing. But I won't stop with the criticism
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,097
smilesja
14,567
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Nov 18, 2024 23:01:11 GMT
No it's not lol. Since when did people care about games journalists? I thought they were all paid off but now they're important again because a game you hate isn't nominated. Thinking there’s something fishy (whether it’s financial or more likely much too cosy relationships) in terms of wider games reviews process doesn’t obviate interest when they actually have to rank them, especially if there’s dissonance. Game journalists should looked at with a measure of distrust period because of their history of misrepresenting games and corruption. I'm not going to come up with some proclamation that the game sucks because Doritos Pope didn't bestow a nomination over my favorite game.
|
|
inherit
424
0
Nov 25, 2024 15:59:48 GMT
6,792
Andrew Waples
4,324
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 18, 2024 23:01:31 GMT
There's a difference between being a critic and spreading conspiracy theories. Fair enough. I can stop with that since its not a 100% sure thing. But I won't stop with the criticism And thats what the skeptical thread is for.
|
|
inherit
12815
0
Nov 25, 2024 15:39:40 GMT
285
journey95
172
Oct 28, 2024 21:56:00 GMT
October 2024
journey95
|
Post by journey95 on Nov 18, 2024 23:02:01 GMT
So critics of the game should be confined to just one thread while fans can go anywhere? Seems wrong. Also I never bashed anyone liking the game, I just gave my opinion on the news (this is a news thread) that Veilguard didn't get any nominations. Just like others did. Some people didn't like that and started discussing things. It's one thing to discuss the game not getting any nominations, it's another to come with conspiracy theories on how the game is universally hated. That's why people here are annoyed with you. Its not a conspiracy theory to say this game is getting tons of backlash everywhere and has few vocal fans, at least on the internet. I showed you proof from the main DA sub, I can do the same for youtube or other sites The paid off critics thing is just a theory and I can stop with that.
|
|
inherit
2147
0
Member is Online
Nov 25, 2024 16:36:51 GMT
3,142
Gwydden
1,385
November 2016
gwydden
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Gwydden on Nov 18, 2024 23:05:34 GMT
I think we only learned that Inquisition was the best-selling Bioware game to date and sold 12 million copies only shortly after release of Veilguard and mentioned off-handedly by a dev who's not working there anymore (well, working, but in a consultant role) I'm pretty sure the devs said Inquisition was their best selling game shortly after it released. Some folks on the forum refused to believe it. I didn't like the game, but that's no reason to doubt that it sold well, or to speculate that the devs are fabricating sales figures for whatever sinister reasons. I want games I like to be successful, if nothing else because then they're more likely to get additional support and the studio can live another day. But actively wishing for a game and studio to fail just because you don't like their games anymore can't be good for your peace of mind. I've grumbled my share over choices in Veilguard because I still have some nostalgia for the older games, but I won't be going around metaphorically sticking needles into poppets. And grumbling is inevitable because the game's been a long time coming and emotions are bound to run high. But ultimately, if one cannot see anything to like in Veilguard, the only reasonable thing to do is move on and play stuff one enjoys more.
|
|
inherit
8885
0
7,563
river82
5,219
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Nov 18, 2024 23:05:58 GMT
It's one thing to discuss the game not getting any nominations, it's another to come with conspiracy theories on how the game is universally hated. That's why people here are annoyed with you. Its not a conspiracy theory to say this game is getting tons of backlash everywhere and has few vocal fans, at least on the internet. I showed you proof from the main DA sub, I can do the same for youtube or other sites The paid off critics thing is just a theory and I can stop with that. It's not really getting a ton of hate outside certain videos. It's more accurate to say people have moved on. Bioware is no longer a name people are attached to, their last hits were over a decade ago, new gamers coming up don't know Bioware and old gamers are kinda getting sick of waiting. Also Larian and CD Projekt have pretty neatly filled their niche. What else is there to say that hasn't already been said. It's why there isn't a ton of commentary about Dragon Age not getting nominated - people don't care anymore.
|
|
inherit
8885
0
7,563
river82
5,219
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Nov 18, 2024 23:10:43 GMT
I think we only learned that Inquisition was the best-selling Bioware game to date and sold 12 million copies only shortly after release of Veilguard and mentioned off-handedly by a dev who's not working there anymore (well, working, but in a consultant role) I'm pretty sure they devs said Inquisition was their best selling game shortly after it released. Some folks on the forum refused to believe it. I didn't like the game, but that's no reason to doubt that it sold well, or to speculate that the devs are fabricating sales figures for whatever sinister reasons. I want games I like to be successful, if nothing else because then they're more likely to get additional support and the studio can live another day. But actively wishing for a game and studio to fail just because you don't like their games anymore can't be good for your peace of mind. I've grumbled my share over choices in Veilguard because I still have some nostalgia for the older games, but I won't be going around metaphorically sticking needles into poppets. And grumbling is inevitable because the game's been a long time coming and emotions are bound to run high. But ultimately, if one cannot see anything to like in Veilguard, the only reasonable thing to do is move on and play stuff one enjoys more. Bioware mentioned it was the fastest selling game a bit after launch, yeah.
|
|
inherit
424
0
Nov 25, 2024 15:59:48 GMT
6,792
Andrew Waples
4,324
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 18, 2024 23:13:26 GMT
I will say I never thought a card game would be nominated for goty, but here we are.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,652
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,050
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Nov 18, 2024 23:14:57 GMT
And since Inquisition was such a success, the logical next step was to pivot away from the design....
|
|
Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,844 Likes: 8,009
inherit
469
0
Nov 25, 2024 13:40:54 GMT
8,009
Andraste_Reborn
1,844
August 2016
andrastereborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 18, 2024 23:15:56 GMT
I have been around long enough to have lived through two previous waves of 'Dragon Age fans don't like this Dragon Age game' and if DA5 ever exists I expect to see a another one. Hell, there was plenty of 'BioWare fans don't like Dragon Age: Origins' back in the day. The backlash to DAV is nothing like as bad as the backlash to DA2, since this one was at least a moderate critical success due to not having the flaws caused by being developed in eighteen months.
We have no way of knowing right now if Veilguard is commercially successful enough to justify another entry in the series - even if we had sales numbers they'd be meaningless without knowing what EA's expectations were, and they're not going to tell us that. Given the gap between games and the long and troubled development there's certainly a chance that they'll decide to cut their losses and not make any more games. But then, appearances can be deceiving - DA2 was financially successful because of that short development cycle even though a lot of people regarded it as a disappointing failure at the time of release.
Should Veilguard be the end of the line, I am content that we got an end to the arc that started in Origins and answers to most of the big lore questions, even if I would like to play Dragon Age: Devouring Storm. Getting through the rest of my twelve world states should keep me occupied for a few years, and then I've got a couple more I want to make ...
|
|
inherit
8885
0
7,563
river82
5,219
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Nov 18, 2024 23:16:27 GMT
I will say I never thought a card game would be nominated for goty, but here we are. 48000 votes on Steam and 97% positive. You should give it a try, people have been having fun
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,097
smilesja
14,567
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Nov 18, 2024 23:18:10 GMT
I have been around long enough to have lived through two previous waves of ' Dragon Age fans don't like this Dragon Age game' and if DA5 ever exists I expect to see a third one. Hell, there was plenty of 'BioWare fans don't like Dragon Age: Origins' back in the day. The backlash to DAV is nothing like as bad as the backlash to DA2, since this one was at least a moderate critical success due to not having the flaws caused by being developed in eighteen months. We have no way of knowing right now if Veilguard is commercially successful enough to justify another entry in the series - even if we had sales numbers they'd be meaningless without knowing what EA's expectations were, and they're not going to tell us that. Given the gap between games and the long and troubled development there's certainly a chance that they'll decide to cut their losses and not make any more games. But then, appearances can be deceiving - DA2 was financially successful because of that short development cycle even though a lot of people regarded it as a disappointing failure at the time of release. Should Veilguard be the end of the line, I am content that we got an end to the arc that started in Origins and answers to most of the big lore questions, even if I would hae liked play Dragon Age: Devouring Storm. Getting through the rest of my twelve world states should keep me occupied for a few years, and then I've got a couple more I want to make ... My warm welcome to the Bioware fandom was a torrent of abuse all because my first game was DA: 2. As much as people want to say that Veilguard is universally hated the "backlash" was nothing compared to DA 2 and that's BEFORE the ME: 3 endings.
|
|
inherit
2147
0
Member is Online
Nov 25, 2024 16:36:51 GMT
3,142
Gwydden
1,385
November 2016
gwydden
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Gwydden on Nov 18, 2024 23:19:59 GMT
I will say I never thought a card game would be nominated for goty, but here we are. Hearthstone was nominated in 2014 And since Inquisition was such a success, the logical next step was to pivot away from the design.... The only Bioware sequels that weren't radical departures from their predecessors were BG2 and ME3. The studio seems constitutionally incapable of consistency, and they've always been susceptible to trends, even back with BG1, which they made real time chasing that sweet Diablo money. And Dragon Age in particular has been pulled hard this way and that by competing visions. Ten years on, I didn't expect Veilguard to be anything like Inquisition.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,097
smilesja
14,567
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Nov 18, 2024 23:20:16 GMT
And since Inquisition was such a success, the logical next step was to pivot away from the design.... I mean go on BSN before veilguard and people were criticizing Inquisition for being too big and having a lot of busy work for little reward. At least Veilguard's busy work led me to some rare weapons.
|
|
inherit
424
0
Nov 25, 2024 15:59:48 GMT
6,792
Andrew Waples
4,324
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 18, 2024 23:20:35 GMT
I will say I never thought a card game would be nominated for goty, but here we are. 48000 votes on Steam and 97% positive. You should give it a try, people have been having fun I know it's Rogue like, but I don't know shit about poker. I know it's on ps5 and it's under 20USD. I don't get it, it does poker right? Is there what? Real money betting?
|
|
inherit
8885
0
7,563
river82
5,219
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Nov 18, 2024 23:25:58 GMT
48000 votes on Steam and 97% positive. You should give it a try, people have been having fun I know it's Rogue like, but I don't know shit about poker. I know it's on ps5 and it's under 20USD. I don't get it, it does poker right? Is there what? Real money betting? No real money betting As for what it's about: Balatro is only briefly a game of poker. Then Balatro becomes a game of cheating at poker by stacking your deck with extra cards, adding multipliers, upgrading hand scores, and giving yourself special powers. You can get quite far in Balatro by playing it as a game of cheating at poker, maybe even win a run, but really this too is a phase. Balatro's endgame is building and upgrading a machine to generate big numbers. At this point, cards are mere fuel. Their abstract power as poker cards doesn't matter, only whether this number is the right octane for this particular run's engine—and you'll have spent several Ante levels stacking the deck with the numbers you need, removing numbers you don't, gaining ways to dig for the good numbers, bedazzling those numbers with foil and seals, and so on.
www.rockpapershotgun.com/balatros-endless-mode-is-perfect-a-fun-victory-lap-before-you-extremely-die
|
|
andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 661 Likes: 1,298
Member is Online
inherit
12820
0
Member is Online
Nov 25, 2024 16:45:49 GMT
1,298
andorvex
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
661
October 2024
andorvex
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by andorvex on Nov 18, 2024 23:28:21 GMT
DA2 is a great Dragon Age, and it's even easier to see in hindsight, but it deserved the backlash it got. I'm not saying people should be dicks to each other over it, that's never cool, but even though as a Dragon Age experience it's superb, second only to DAO imo, as a video game it is seriously lacking. Is it the fault of Bioware is it the fault of EA? Doesn't matter, at the end of the day people payed full price for a game that is technically a glorified demo.
|
|
wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,810 Likes: 2,870
Member is Online
inherit
1492
0
Member is Online
Nov 25, 2024 16:47:28 GMT
2,870
wright1978
1,810
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
|
Post by wright1978 on Nov 18, 2024 23:29:36 GMT
I think we only learned that Inquisition was the best-selling Bioware game to date and sold 12 million copies only shortly after release of Veilguard and mentioned off-handedly by a dev who's not working there anymore (well, working, but in a consultant role) I'm pretty sure the devs said Inquisition was their best selling game shortly after it released. Some folks on the forum refused to believe it. I didn't like the game, but that's no reason to doubt that it sold well, or to speculate that the devs are fabricating sales figures for whatever sinister reasons. I want games I like to be successful, if nothing else because then they're more likely to get additional support and the studio can live another day. But actively wishing for a game and studio to fail just because you don't like their games anymore can't be good for your peace of mind. I've grumbled my share over choices in Veilguard because I still have some nostalgia for the older games, but I won't be going around metaphorically sticking needles into poppets. And grumbling is inevitable because the game's been a long time coming and emotions are bound to run high. But ultimately, if one cannot see anything to like in Veilguard, the only reasonable thing to do is move on and play stuff one enjoys more. I’d argue the reasonable thing to hope negative feedback leads to a return to form. So while I’m not wishing BioWare away, neither am I rooting for a game of theirs I find unpalatable to become their continued trend or worse still an industry trend.
|
|
inherit
8885
0
7,563
river82
5,219
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Nov 18, 2024 23:31:32 GMT
DA2 is a great Dragon Age, and it's even easier to see in hindsight, but it deserved the backlash it got. I'm not saying people should be dicks to each other over it, that's never cool, but even though as a Dragon Age experience it's superb, second only to DAO imo, as a video game it is seriously lacking. Is it the fault of Bioware is it the fault of EA? Doesn't matter, at the end of the day people payed full price for a game that is technically a glorified demo. Also people were still invested in Bioware at that point. And also Dragon Age Origins and it's expansion were sold to PC gamers as a return to the Bioware of old, epic story, PC focused isometric gameplay. And then you went into character focused, hack and slash, wave enemies, action game. But the backlash was more because people were still hyped about Bioware then
|
|
andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 661 Likes: 1,298
Member is Online
inherit
12820
0
Member is Online
Nov 25, 2024 16:45:49 GMT
1,298
andorvex
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
661
October 2024
andorvex
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by andorvex on Nov 18, 2024 23:34:04 GMT
DA2 is a great Dragon Age, and it's even easier to see in hindsight, but it deserved the backlash it got. I'm not saying people should be dicks to each other over it, that's never cool, but even though as a Dragon Age experience it's superb, second only to DAO imo, as a video game it is seriously lacking. Is it the fault of Bioware is it the fault of EA? Doesn't matter, at the end of the day people payed full price for a game that is technically a glorified demo. Also people were still invested in Bioware at that point. And also Dragon Age Origins and it's expansion were sold to PC gamers as a return to the Bioware of old, epic story, PC focused isometric gameplay. And then you went into character focused, hack and slash, wave enemies, action game. But the backlash was more because people were still hyped about Bioware then As far as I remember it was over many things. The combat, the lack of verity of environments and enemies, the lack of choice, the endings. There's plenty to dislike about DA2, especially if you don't dive deep enough.
|
|
wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,810 Likes: 2,870
Member is Online
inherit
1492
0
Member is Online
Nov 25, 2024 16:47:28 GMT
2,870
wright1978
1,810
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
|
Post by wright1978 on Nov 18, 2024 23:41:44 GMT
Also people were still invested in Bioware at that point. And also Dragon Age Origins and it's expansion were sold to PC gamers as a return to the Bioware of old, epic story, PC focused isometric gameplay. And then you went into character focused, hack and slash, wave enemies, action game. But the backlash was more because people were still hyped about Bioware then As far as I remember it was over many things. The combat, the lack of verity of environments and enemies, the lack of choice, the endings. There's plenty to dislike about DA2, especially if you don't dive deep enough. The combat and environments were the 2 I remember hearing loudest. Plus no origins/race choice. Didn’t bother me much as I absolutely loved the writing/characters
|
|
andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 661 Likes: 1,298
Member is Online
inherit
12820
0
Member is Online
Nov 25, 2024 16:45:49 GMT
1,298
andorvex
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
661
October 2024
andorvex
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by andorvex on Nov 18, 2024 23:45:25 GMT
As far as I remember it was over many things. The combat, the lack of verity of environments and enemies, the lack of choice, the endings. There's plenty to dislike about DA2, especially if you don't dive deep enough. The combat and environments were the 2 I remember hearing loudest. Plus no origins/race choice. Didn’t bother me much as I absolutely loved the writing/characters That's the thing though, to really appreciate the writing/characters you need to give the game a chance and I get the sense many of the people who played DA2 on lunch wrote it off before they had a chance to. That's also why I think DATV gets less backlash, because the package of this game is extremely good. Barely any technical issues, looks good, has fun combat, etc
|
|