midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 18:36:15 GMT
Interesting that you bring up LotR, because Frodo is very much NOT a Chosen One, it's Aragorn who is the quintessential Chosen One You misunderstand what the Chosen One is. It CAN be the smallest, most insignificant person that is still appointed a task - for whatever reason, even because they can simply hide well - that will shape the course of the story in major ways. To help with the debate, hear now the wise words of Sam from the book (which might reasonably be said to be Tolkien's view of the matter). This is said to Frodo when they are on the borders of Mordor, just before Shelob's lair and they are already feeling the evil ambience of the place. " I don't like anything here at all", said Frodo....."But so our path is laid."
"Yes, that's so," said Sam."And we shouldn't have been here at all if we'd known more about it before we started. But I suppose it's often that way. The brave things in the old tales and songs, Mr Frodo: adventures as I used to call them. I used to think they were the things that the wonderful folk of the stories went out and looked for, because they wanted them, because they were exciting and life was a bit dull, a kind of sport, as you might say. But that's not the way of it with the tales that really mattered, or the ones that stay in the mind. Folk seem to have just landed in them - their paths were laid that way, as you put it." It is true to say that the Warden just landed in their story, since in all the origin stories becoming a warden is something forced upon them, not something they did by choice, and if Alistair had manned up and taken command as he should have done, being the senior surviving warden, then he would have been the Hero of Ferelden by the end instead of them. Hawke just landed in their story too since we never get a genuine choice about whether we go to Kirkwall or not and everything goes from there. Only the Herald/Inquisitor can be said to be a Chosen One but then only so long as the truth about the anchor isn't known. As it turned out, they landed in their story by accident just as much as the other two and don't even have the option of throwing away the item that makes them important or offering it to someone else (as Frodo does three times: first to Gandalf, then to Aragon at the Council of Elrond and then finally to Galadriel - I'm still referencing the book here). So game play mechanics mean we appear the Chosen One because we really can't get out of it but that is it really. The Inquisitor appears more of a Chosen One simply because the writers chose to attach them to the magical item that could save the world. I must admit I'd rather we returned to the pattern of the Warden and Hawke where it is our own inborn talent that carries us through, or deviousness if that is what we prefer, which is what distinguishes us from those around us, and not an item of special significance that only we can use. Is it our inborn talent though if there could be an element of Destiny (TM) or someone helping nudge the events on the way? As I said before - one can play (as much as possible) Warden as a scoundrel, but (unlike in TES where we can completely ignore the main quest) that path has been laid and they fulfill their role as The One who has stopped the Fifth Blight. As I said, in Darkspawn Chronicles, we see that Alistair can't do it, on his own at least, because the HoF is the one character who can turn the tides. Is it 'inborn talent' then if they are The-Right-Person-At-The-Right-Place-To-Complete-A-Specific-Task - and how is that 'inborn talent' different from Inquisitor's, other than optics? I also think that Inquisitor is fashioned as the more standard Chosen One - at least on the surface and in eyes of the populace - in order to eventually do away with the whole thing, especially if DA4 story goes in directions I think it still may go. While I like Inky and my main one will, effectively, be goody-two-shoes, I do like the idea of giving us an option to perhaps turn our past protagonist into a failed Chosen role (maybe even have a character scream at them " YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!"  ), or become evil/disillusioned/misguided and thus an obstacle to the game's ultimate objective... and not just be a person who, sure, can be an a-hole and even a murderous a-hole not liked by anyone, but still fulfill role assigned either by Writing Gods or Whatever Forces Of Destiny Shape The In-Story World. That'd be very cool, IMO.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Member is Online
30,564
gervaise21
12,906
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 24, 2020 19:07:22 GMT
Is it 'inborn talent' then if they are The-Right-Person-At-The-Right-Place-To-Complete-A-Specific-Task - and how is that 'inborn talent' different from Inquisitor's, other than optics? Because the in-born talent can come in various forms. It can simply be they are ruthless enough or cussed enough to make sure they survive. With our Warden in particular they gave them the option to dodge the bullet so to speak in saving the world. They can force our fellow Warden to sleep with Morrigan, even though Loghain in particularly begs you not to, or alternatively if they have scruples about the Dark Ritual, or just want to thwart Morrigan, they can manipulated their fellow warden into making the ultimate sacrifice and yet somehow they are still seen as the Hero of Ferelden rather than the dead one. The Arch-demon has nothing against you personally and doesn't come looking for you specifically. Hawke can also have a variety of approaches to life and when it comes to the battle that earns them the title of Champion, they can actually dodge it altogether if Isabella returns and they decide to hand her over to the Arishok. The Arishok can agree to single combat if you have impressed him over the course of the previous two acts but beyond that you have no particular significance to him. To be honest the only reason my mage Hawke managed to defeat him was my loyal mabari that kept distracting him for me. By contrast, the Herald cannot get out of doing their duty because they are the only person who can use the anchor. The only difference is which group of people we get to assist us but there is no ruthlessness or moral cowardice or betrayal involved in doing so. Every Inquisitor is exactly the same in that respect. Corypheus comes looking for you personally because you have the bauble. There is no variation in how you escape from that situation. So when Cassandra and Leliana decide you will make a good figurehead going forward it is really because of that bauble. Even Solas only sticks around because you have the bauble. He can admire you or hate your guts but he won't leave because he wants his bauble back and to a lesser extent because your organisation is the one to defeat Corypheus, which is how he hopes to recover it, but ultimately it still all comes back to the bauble. In the final analysis it is the bauble that defeats Corypheus and is then destroyed in the process. We still have the lesser bauble but in the end that starts to kill us and Solas had to remove our arm to save us. You could not do the same to our in-born talent or we would be dead.
|
|
Solas
N5
blep mlem mlem
ratlobster banger
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Prime Posts: 3,912
Prime Likes: 9733
Posts: 2,894 Likes: 12,961
inherit
blep mlem mlem
65
0
12,961
Solas
ratlobster banger
2,894
August 2016
solas
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
3,912
9733
|
Post by Solas on Jun 24, 2020 20:13:36 GMT
In LadyInsanity's recent vid, she said that she reccomends reading Tevinter Nights because: "as I have been told will feature, and I quote, ‘brand new areas and characters before they appear in the next BioWare game’."  |
|
inherit
492
0
4,696
OhDaniGirl
Incoming...
1,673
August 2016
ohdanigirl
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by OhDaniGirl on Jun 24, 2020 20:20:56 GMT
In LadyInsanity's recent vid, she said that she reccomends reading Tevinter Nights because: "as I have been told will feature, and I quote, ‘brand new areas and characters before they appear in the next BioWare game’."  Does she say who told her that?
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Member is Online
30,564
gervaise21
12,906
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 24, 2020 20:22:43 GMT
In LadyInsanity's recent vid, she said that she reccomends reading Tevinter Nights because: " as I have been told will feature, and I quote, ‘brand new areas and characters before they appear in the next BioWare game’." She didn't happen to mention her source did she? I know PW said something about May the Dread Wolf Take You having some clues about the next game but I thought that was the only specific hint from the team that anything from Tevinter Nights might be pertinent. |
|
inherit
1047
0
1,853
ClarkKent
1,060
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
|
Post by ClarkKent on Jun 24, 2020 20:22:52 GMT
To take this thread on a tangent, are the Grey Wardens even a particularly elite fighting force? I could imagine they were, once, but nowadays they have to fish from the fighter equivalent of the bargain bin for recruits. There's probably an uptick in fighter quality around and after blights but after that I doubt many great warriors would want to join the wardens when they could be some rich man's mercenary instead. I'm sure every once in a while you get a Duncan from that bin but I'm sure most are just there to make up the numbers, or are at best very raw like Alistair.
They jobbed hard against the Inquistion forces too.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 20:29:42 GMT
Is it 'inborn talent' then if they are The-Right-Person-At-The-Right-Place-To-Complete-A-Specific-Task - and how is that 'inborn talent' different from Inquisitor's, other than optics? Because the in-born talent can come in various forms. It can simply be they are ruthless enough or cussed enough to make sure they survive. With our Warden in particular they gave them the option to dodge the bullet so to speak in saving the world. They can force our fellow Warden to sleep with Morrigan, even though Loghain in particularly begs you not to, or alternatively if they have scruples about the Dark Ritual, or just want to thwart Morrigan, they can manipulated their fellow warden into making the ultimate sacrifice and yet somehow they are still seen as the Hero of Ferelden rather than the dead one. The Arch-demon has nothing against you personally and doesn't come looking for you specifically. I genuinely see little difference between 'inborn talent' and characters being roped into a role due to accidentally stumbling on some sort of power. By its definition something that is inborn isn't there due to character's own merit, but something that is 'programmed' into the character form the start, without their choice on the matter. Never mind that I don't see how any of the above answers the question at hand. It doesn't matter what kind of 'inborn talent' Warden has or doesn't have - they still fulfill the task assigned to them. So it either isn't a matter of 'inborn talent' or how it manifests, that 'inborn talent' isn't there due to character's own merits, or each person has been chosen because they all have an 'inborn talent' that helps them succeed in their role, in one way or another. This notion is supported by the fact that we can choose characters of different backgrounds or roleplay them differently. You are cherry picking singular events in order to try and make it seem like PCs have more autonomy over story than they actually have or in comparison to DAI. The reality though is that Hawke is THERE, in Kirkwall, and participates in events that lead to certain outputs and thus pushes story of the whole realm into specific directions (releases Corypheus, finds Red Lyrium, witnesses/takes part in the start of Mage-Templar war and Arishok trying to take over Kirkwall and in DAI - participates in stopping part of plan of Cory). There are whole chunks of story in both DAO and DAI where we have no choice in course of events and there are those that we do, where we can make mistakes, be a-holes, alienate people or gain allies and their approval, etc. In this regard there is not that much difference between HoF and Inky, if one looks at the larger picture. That you are trying to make a case that Wardens somehow are more free to make decisions (when they effectively had no choice on the matter - we follow Duncan and we don't abandon our mission after Flemeth saves us, same way as Inquisitor doesn't leave after Cass and Leli ask us to stay) because both games aren't identical in regard of details - mostly as to where they leave us autonomy and where they don't. This strikes me as bizarre. I mean I, for one, am happy that these stories aren't identical and don't treat their character in identical fashion. The major difference I see between Warden and Inquisitor is that the Warden is allowed to make some decisions/dodge the bullet that effectively eliminates them from the role of recurring PCs (they can die or reach pretty exotic quantum states) while Inquisitor is put in a narrative position where they still play a significant role in events - either choices they have made in DAI are so wide-reaching they may have an effect on DA4 (who they chose as Divine, who they chose to befriend, etc) or Inquisitors themselves MAY yet still become characters with wilder range of final fates, including potentially one of the Fallen Hero, which would be a novelty. But the reason people cling to Warden isn't because of Sheer Forced Of Personality or Inborn Talent or something, but because they are the last Wardens in Ferelden during the Blight (the only order known to fight the Blight effectively and thus locals cling around them not unlike they cling around the only known person able to close the Rifts) with special treaties that allow them to build an army against the Fifth Blight. In this regard they are effectively the same as Inquisitor - they stay instead of running away and want to do something against the chaos by forming a coalition of companions and forces against the looming threat. And they just so happen to have tools that are necessary to deal with a particular problem laid before them (HoF is one of two surviving Grey Wardens that can flash special treaties, Inquisitor has the Anchor and status of demigod among populace). ...I have to admit though that I'm mostly confused by the attempt to make Corypheus going after Inquisitor (because they have The Bauble) a point against them? I admit to not following the logic here. You first establish that Arishok doesn't particularly cares about Hawke and that Archdemon doesn't come looking specifically for the Warden - okay... and Corypheus comes for THE BAUBLE and not the person wielding them. The fact that Herald/Inquisitor is able to disrupt his plans, be it before or after failed Anchor extraction attempt is a surprise to Cory as much as Hawke being an obstacle for DAII baddies and HoF being an obstacle for DAO baddies (btw. we can get a companion out of Loghain's attempt to assassinate the Wardens, so it's not that they can slink through Ferelden without anyone realizing that they are a threat). It's the same with Solas (or most other companions) - he first stays for The Bauble (arguably) and, slowly, the Anchor fades into background as Solas gains appreciation (or, at the very least, begrudging respect) for a person who wields The Bauble. After all, he takes The Bauble (or could make it that it - or the scheming Qunari - kills us, simply by not doing anything) and leaves Inquisitors alive, while fully aware - and maybe even wanting them to - that they'll go after them.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 20:33:25 GMT
In LadyInsanity's recent vid, she said that she reccomends reading Tevinter Nights because: "as I have been told will feature, and I quote, ‘brand new areas and characters before they appear in the next BioWare game’." I know that sometimes we speculate whether Tevinter Nights is a holdover of old ideas from Joplin, but to me Tevinter Night always smelled like a book that sets up events, characters, factions and regions we will see in the future and not much anything that would be largely unrelated to DA4, so... duh?
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Oct 31, 2024 18:26:04 GMT
31,574
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 20:42:51 GMT
To take this thread on a tangent, are the Grey Wardens even a particularly elite fighting force? I could imagine they were, once, but nowadays they have to fish from the fighter equivalent of the bargain bin for recruits. There's probably an uptick in fighter quality around and after blights but after that I doubt many great warriors would want to join the wardens when they could be some rich man's mercenary instead. I'm sure every once in a while you get a Duncan from that bin but I'm sure most are just there to make up the numbers, or are at best very raw like Alistair. They jobbed hard against the Inquistion forces too. I guess it depends where they are from. The Grey Wardens in the Anderfels for example are absolutely an elite fighting force, since there they fight the Darkspawn on a regular basis and are the real authority of the nation and the nation is pretty much on their own.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 20:53:03 GMT
To take this thread on a tangent, are the Grey Wardens even a particularly elite fighting force? I could imagine they were, once, but nowadays they have to fish from the fighter equivalent of the bargain bin for recruits. There's probably an uptick in fighter quality around and after blights but after that I doubt many great warriors would want to join the wardens when they could be some rich man's mercenary instead. I'm sure every once in a while you get a Duncan from that bin but I'm sure most are just there to make up the numbers, or are at best very raw like Alistair. They jobbed hard against the Inquistion forces too. That is true, but the fact that a faction has fallen on hard time doesn't make it less of a faction that is - in theory at least - made out of seasoned warriors. The Darkspawn are, after all, hardly a force that one can just ask nicely to please die, or go back to Deep Roads and not bother anyone anymore. So, because of the nature of their primary task it makes sense for them to be a faction of people familiar with combat - even if that combat experience isn't as impressive at certain times or compared to other factions. Of course, a question for DA4 is how involved the Grey Wardens will be compared to everyone else? I can see Lords Of Fortune being useful, for example - especially if DA4 will focus in big part on heists or finding artifacts or treasures, etc. This is why for me they don't necessarily have to be a faction of fighters per se in order to be relevant. So... how relevant would Wardens be? They were the most useful during DAO, when the major threat was the Blight and the outpouring of Darkspawn on the surface. They were less so in DAII and DAI, because their talents weren't as relevant. Given that we have seen what looks like badly Blighted landscapes does this mean that Wardens or their unique skills of sensing Blight/Darkspawn or being more resistant to them will become more useful again? Or will knowledge that they have (findings from 'The Horror of Hormak' or some other Blight-related discoveries or secrets) be what our PC/faction will be after?
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 20:55:55 GMT
To take this thread on a tangent, are the Grey Wardens even a particularly elite fighting force? I could imagine they were, once, but nowadays they have to fish from the fighter equivalent of the bargain bin for recruits. There's probably an uptick in fighter quality around and after blights but after that I doubt many great warriors would want to join the wardens when they could be some rich man's mercenary instead. I'm sure every once in a while you get a Duncan from that bin but I'm sure most are just there to make up the numbers, or are at best very raw like Alistair. They jobbed hard against the Inquistion forces too. I guess it depends where they are from. The Grey Wardens in the Anderfels for example are absolutely an elite fighting force, since there they fight the Darkspawn on a regular basis and are the real authority of the nation and the nation is pretty much on their own. Are they though? Riordan is pretty adamant they are more focused on gaining political power in Anderfels and, in case there was Blight, they can't be counted on - which would explain both why Orlesian/Fereldan Wardens seem certain that if they're gone then Wardens as a faction are gone or why we hear of a revolt in Weisshaupt in last game's epilogues.
|
|
inherit
1047
0
1,853
ClarkKent
1,060
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
|
Post by ClarkKent on Jun 24, 2020 21:24:26 GMT
The Wardens will always be invaluable for the knowledge they possess. I'm sure a few of them know a thing or too about the Elven bits of the deep roads.
The Weisshaupt tease at the end of DAI always struck me as a tease for DA4 DLC lol. If the story encompasses the Anderfels as well then DA4 will be a big boi.
|
|
Solas
N5
blep mlem mlem
ratlobster banger
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Prime Posts: 3,912
Prime Likes: 9733
Posts: 2,894 Likes: 12,961
inherit
blep mlem mlem
65
0
12,961
Solas
ratlobster banger
2,894
August 2016
solas
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
3,912
9733
|
Post by Solas on Jun 24, 2020 21:35:56 GMT
OhDaniGirl gervaise21 No I don't think so. Wasn't sure if it was a reference to a hint from a dev we knew about, one we may have missed or something LI was privy to (she sometimes gets little snippets of insight) Tea, I don't really want to respond to that. TN obviously seems like it contains set ups for the next game, given what it contains and its nature as a book which came post DAI but pre-DA4, regardless. I'm interested in what LI said in that the way it was phrased was a bit curious. You sometimes seem to have only one mode.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 21:38:46 GMT
The Wardens will always be invaluable for the knowledge they possess. I'm sure a few of them know a thing or too about the Elven bits of the deep roads. The Weisshaupt tease at the end of DAI always struck me as a tease for DA4 DLC lol. If the story encompassed the Anderfels as well then DA4 will be a big boi. Do they though? Some individuals among the Wardens, but I'm not sure about the Wardens as a whole. The upper echelon hardly knew of Corypheus and they don't seem to possess as much knowledge about the Blight as one could expect from them. Duncan, who was a high-ranking Warden, thought that eluvians were Tevinter communication devices and not elvhen dimensional portals. I don't think there's much they know about the Titans or what Inquisition has found in Descent DLC. It IS possible that they possess knowledge that would be invaluable to us in DA4 (like the whole Hormak thing that so far only some Wardens seem to be aware), but I'm not entirely sure how substantial that knowledge would be. For all we know, they may only offer leads. Anyway, I always thought that Weisshaupt tease may be a set up for either a book or a comic book (or a game like The Last Court) and that itself may set up some things for DA4. Which, given that the game is not months/weeks from release, can yet happen.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Oct 31, 2024 18:26:04 GMT
31,574
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 21:45:19 GMT
I guess it depends where they are from. The Grey Wardens in the Anderfels for example are absolutely an elite fighting force, since there they fight the Darkspawn on a regular basis and are the real authority of the nation and the nation is pretty much on their own. Are they though? Riordan is pretty adamant they are more focused on gaining political power in Anderfels and, in case there was Blight, they can't be counted on - which would explain both why Orlesian/Fereldan Wardens seem certain that if they're gone then Wardens as a faction are gone or why we hear of a revolt in Weisshaupt in last game's epilogues. I took Riordan’s comment on not relying on them not being a reference to their skill but more that due to how isolated the Anderfels are, with the other nations not helping them, it made the nation and thus the Wardens there jaded towards the rest of Thedas. |
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 21:49:47 GMT
OhDaniGirl gervaise21 No I don't think so. Wasn't sure if it was a reference to a hint from a dev we knew about, one we may have missed or something LI was privy to (she sometimes gets little snippets of insight) Tea, I don't really want to respond to that. TN obviously seems like it contains set ups for the next game, given what it contains and its nature as a book which came post DAI but pre-DA4, regardless. I'm interested in what LI said in that the way it was phrased was a bit curious. You sometimes seem to have only one mode. What mode would that be, especially in relation to what I said on the topic? I agree with her recommendation to read the book to anyone who yet didn't.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 21:54:43 GMT
Are they though? Riordan is pretty adamant they are more focused on gaining political power in Anderfels and, in case there was Blight, they can't be counted on - which would explain both why Orlesian/Fereldan Wardens seem certain that if they're gone then Wardens as a faction are gone or why we hear of a revolt in Weisshaupt in last game's epilogues. I took Riordan’s comment on not relying on them not being a reference to their skill but more that due to how isolated the Anderfels are, with the other nations not helping them, it made the nation and thus the Wardens there jaded towards the rest of Thedas. Yes, but this sort of attitude is the point - even if Anderfelian Wardens do possess great skills or valuable knowledge, Riordan (and events in Inquisition or the aforementioned revolt) makes it apparent that they may not be counted on when it matters. The Anderfelian Wardens may actually still remain isolated form the world in DA4, while we may mostly have dealings with those Wardens who remain in Tevinter?
|
|
inherit
11450
0
4,717
necrowaif
2,050
Mar 24, 2020 19:57:15 GMT
March 2020
necrowaif
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
|
Post by necrowaif on Jun 24, 2020 22:02:20 GMT
There's a couple of things that should be remembered about the Wardens' poor showing at Adamant:
1) Cullen outright states that the fortress wasn't built to hold up to modern siege equipment. Ogres flinging boulders, sure, but not catapults and ballistas. And no matter how skilled a swordsman you are, you can't parry a giant rock flying at your head. (At least, not in Dragon Age.)
2) The Wardens aren't exactly united at Adamant. Sure, the mages all fight the Inquisition because they've already lost their free wills, but some of the rogues and warriors weren't thrilled over the prospect of being sacrificed in a blood magic ritual.
|
|
inherit
664
0
3,126
Grog Muffins
Seethingway
1,168
August 2016
grogmuffins
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Grog Muffins on Jun 24, 2020 22:49:53 GMT
I guess it depends where they are from. The Grey Wardens in the Anderfels for example are absolutely an elite fighting force, since there they fight the Darkspawn on a regular basis and are the real authority of the nation and the nation is pretty much on their own. Are they though? Riordan is pretty adamant they are more focused on gaining political power in Anderfels and, in case there was Blight, they can't be counted on - which would explain both why Orlesian/Fereldan Wardens seem certain that if they're gone then Wardens as a faction are gone or why we hear of a revolt in Weisshaupt in last game's epilogues. In World of Thedas vol. 1 it says that the king of The Anderfels keeps his guards and soldiers within the capital, while outside of the capital the only real authority are the Wardens. The First Warden is indeed embroiled in politics but, as per the book, he's become an outspoken critic of the king's status-quo and of the monarchy as a whole. That's why people are speculating that he's interested in the throne but we only really know that he's a critic of a paranoid king who apparently doesn't give two frostbitten onions about his own people. I took Riordan’s comment on not relying on them not being a reference to their skill but more that due to how isolated the Anderfels are, with the other nations not helping them, it made the nation and thus the Wardens there jaded towards the rest of Thedas. Yes, but this sort of attitude is the point - even if Anderfelian Wardens do possess great skills or valuable knowledge, Riordan (and events in Inquisition or the aforementioned revolt) makes it apparent that they may not be counted on when it matters. The Anderfelian Wardens may actually still remain isolated form the world in DA4, while we may mostly have dealings with those Wardens who remain in Tevinter? Riordan's and Alistair's remarks about the Ander Wardens not being of help was only in relation to them being so far away they wouldn't be useful against the Blight because it would take them months to get to Ferelden, even if they contacted them, not that they would refuse to help.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,221 Likes: 20,243
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
20,243
midnight tea
8,221
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2020 22:59:30 GMT
Are they though? Riordan is pretty adamant they are more focused on gaining political power in Anderfels and, in case there was Blight, they can't be counted on - which would explain both why Orlesian/Fereldan Wardens seem certain that if they're gone then Wardens as a faction are gone or why we hear of a revolt in Weisshaupt in last game's epilogues. In World of Thedas vol. 1 it says that the king of The Anderfels keeps his guards and soldiers within the capital, while outside of the capital the only real authority are the Wardens. The First Warden is indeed embroiled in politics but, as per the book, he's become an outspoken critic of the king's status-quo and of the monarchy as a whole. That's why people are speculating that he's interested in the throne but we only really know that he's a critic of a paranoid king who apparently doesn't give two frostbitten onions about his own people. Yes, but this sort of attitude is the point - even if Anderfelian Wardens do possess great skills or valuable knowledge, Riordan (and events in Inquisition or the aforementioned revolt) makes it apparent that they may not be counted on when it matters. The Anderfelian Wardens may actually still remain isolated form the world in DA4, while we may mostly have dealings with those Wardens who remain in Tevinter? Riordan's and Alistair's remarks about the Ander Wardens not being of help was only in relation to them being so far away they wouldn't be useful against the Blight because it would take them months to get to Ferelden, even if they contacted them, not that they would refuse to help. I would say that Riordan has made his feelings pretty clear about Anderfelian Wardens, even if he's tried to be diplomatic about it. The rumors of Weisshaupt revolt/war also does seem to support the assessment that there's something off about Wardens in Anderfels or - at the very least - the leadership in Weisshaupt.
|
|
inherit
424
0
6,630
Andrew Waples
4,242
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 24, 2020 23:00:23 GMT
The Wardens will always be invaluable for the knowledge they possess. I'm sure a few of them know a thing or too about the Elven bits of the deep roads. The Weisshaupt tease at the end of DAI always struck me as a tease for DA4 DLC lol. If the story encompasses the Anderfels as well then DA4 will be a big boi. Yeah, I don't think we're done with the Grey Wardens; especially with the HOF off to cure the calling. Prediction: with the cure the calling and the reveal of the Tranquil cure. I wonder if will have to choose between curing the Wardens or revealing the Tranquil cure. They sorta leave both in the air.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Oct 31, 2024 18:26:04 GMT
31,574
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 23:04:18 GMT
The Wardens will always be invaluable for the knowledge they possess. I'm sure a few of them know a thing or too about the Elven bits of the deep roads. The Weisshaupt tease at the end of DAI always struck me as a tease for DA4 DLC lol. If the story encompasses the Anderfels as well then DA4 will be a big boi. Yeah, I don't think we're done with the Grey Wardens; especially with the HOF off to cure the calling. Prediction: with the cure the calling and the reveal of the Tranquil cure. I wonder if will have to choose between curing the Wardens or revealing the Tranquil cure. They sorta leave both in the air. I don’t see why that would be an either/or choice? |
|
inherit
424
0
6,630
Andrew Waples
4,242
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 24, 2020 23:08:11 GMT
Yeah, I don't think we're done with the Grey Wardens; especially with the HOF off to cure the calling. Prediction: with the cure the calling and the reveal of the Tranquil cure. I wonder if will have to choose between curing the Wardens or revealing the Tranquil cure. They sorta leave both in the air. I don’t see why that would be an either/or choice? Well, I just think it's intriguing that both revelations are in the same game that's all.
|
|
inherit
11450
0
4,717
necrowaif
2,050
Mar 24, 2020 19:57:15 GMT
March 2020
necrowaif
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
|
Post by necrowaif on Jun 24, 2020 23:10:23 GMT
My assumption is that there is a cure for the Calling, but it's incredibly difficult to obtain and may even require some sort of sacrifice. Thus, the solution works for the Hero of Ferelden but is useless for the rank and file Wardens.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Oct 31, 2024 18:26:04 GMT
31,574
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 23:10:37 GMT
I don’t see why that would be an either/or choice? Well, I just think it's intriguing that both revelations are in the same game that's all. That's fine, it just sounded like you were thinking the reveal would be a Mage/Templar kind of choice when you two have little to no overlap.
|
|
