midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,270 Likes: 17,334
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
17,334
midnight tea
7,270
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Oct 19, 2021 21:32:47 GMT
No such thing as 'the best' I'd say that there are probably different categories of 'best' and these can fluctuate in time.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,623
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 19, 2021 21:42:32 GMT
Sometimes that’s all you need to deal with an essay of pure nonsense. Noticed you didn’t counter, so I’ll consider that means you realize you’re error and concede. Here's my counter to your "no" Yes.
|
|
inherit
1151
0
Dec 28, 2021 17:19:45 GMT
98
bloodmagereaver
120
Aug 23, 2016 12:39:44 GMT
August 2016
bloodmagereaver
|
Post by bloodmagereaver on Oct 19, 2021 22:07:07 GMT
Well...
Ranking fictional media is always subjective, there is no objective attribute you can compare to define something as better than other.
If we were comparing guns we could objectively measure recoil, fire rate, accuracy, weight, reliability and even ergonomics to decide between two guns which is the best of a kind.
When you compare subjective things which can't be measured the next best option is to consider what the majority likes the most.
While public consensus is subjective it does give an effective pointer as to what generates more success between two things under comparison.
With that said, the public favors DAO as the best game out of the three.
You are entitled to disagreeing but the fact is that the majority has a clear pick.
DAI has the most fluid movement of the three games because the characters gained the abilities to jump, run, climb and even ride mounts despite the last one being useless most of the time.
DA2 has the least variable environments but arguably the hardest enemies because some are sponges that can AoE instantly kill you while other's jump into invincible stealth frames and one shot you with a backstab.
DAO has the most overpowered characters, with a proper build you can be nearly unkilable but mages have enormous AoE attacks they can stack to clear dungeons like nothing.
My opinions above are as objective as I can get on the games from my experience with them.
I hope that DA4 keeps the fluidity of DAI while bringing back some of DAO's AoE craziness.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,623
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 19, 2021 23:16:46 GMT
I understand what you mean. But there are some tells. Saying "Twilight is my favourite book" goes a long way from saying "Twilight is a better book than Dubliners". It's just not true. If you look at the prose, the language of the time, as Joyce puts it to paper, the characters, the way he puts you into the mind and the thought process of the characters he describes, there is nothing in Twilight that comes close to that.
|
|
inherit
2210
0
Jun 16, 2024 20:02:41 GMT
4,799
dadithinkimgay
1,312
Nov 29, 2016 19:15:03 GMT
November 2016
dadithinkimgay
|
Post by dadithinkimgay on Oct 20, 2021 0:17:48 GMT
DAI is awesome thank you very much. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png) Ya'll are going to war over this single opinion that was *checks*... 4 pages back. You guys good?
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Jun 16, 2024 21:52:54 GMT
22,293
smilesja
13,891
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Oct 20, 2021 1:41:20 GMT
DAI is awesome thank you very much. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png) Ya'll are going to war over this single opinion that was *checks*... 4 pages back. You guys good? It's amazing how gamers say: like what you like but the moment you say something that's not popular they treat you utter garbage. The Dragon Age fanbase is among the worst when it comes to this.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Jun 16, 2024 22:13:56 GMT
32,235
colfoley
17,076
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Oct 20, 2021 1:59:17 GMT
I understand what you mean. But there are some tells. Saying "Twilight is my favourite book" goes a long way from saying "Twilight is a better book than Dubliners". It's just not true. If you look at the prose, the language of the time, as Joyce puts it to paper, the characters, the way he puts you into the mind and the thought process of the characters he describes, there is nothing in Twilight that comes close to that. I find it to be a distinction without a difference and so what? If one likes what they like I might even think it odd but you do you. DAI is awesome thank you very much. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png) Ya'll are going to war over this single opinion that was *checks*... 4 pages back. You guys good? What else are we going to talk about? ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png)
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,623
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 20, 2021 2:08:14 GMT
I find it to be a distinction without a difference and so what? No difference between Joyce and Stephenie Meyer. The only thing that tells me, is that you wouldn't be able to tell a bad book, if it hit you in the face with a sledgehammer. It's not an argument. How about Tolstoy? Kafka? Let's take it down even to something more mainstream, yet classic still; Dumas. Fucking Tolkien. You'd put Stephanie Meyer on that same level as every one of them? Preposterous. "I can't tell the difference" is not a defense.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Jun 16, 2024 22:13:56 GMT
32,235
colfoley
17,076
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Oct 20, 2021 2:34:49 GMT
I find it to be a distinction without a difference and so what? No difference between Joyce and Stephenie Meyer. The only thing that tells me, is that you wouldn't be able to tell a bad book, if it hit you in the face with a sledgehammer. It's not an argument. How about Tolstoy? Kafka? Let's take it down even to something more mainstream, yet classic still; Dumas. Fucking Tolkien. You'd put Stephanie Meyer on that same level as every one of them? Preposterous. "I can't tell the difference" is not a defense. See I hate Kafka and think Tolkien is very overrated so yes I probably would put Stephanie Meyer in their category. ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png)
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,623
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 20, 2021 2:51:03 GMT
"Twilight" as good as "The Trial" Yeah, yeah, if you throw in a couple of vampires and werewolves and make bureaucracy into the Volturi. ![:facepalm:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/LnUBktUNmyIRZJVJhGSZ.png)
|
|
Sharable Horizon
N3
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Lvl 31 Rogue God Emperor
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Posts: 600 Likes: 1,968
inherit
2222
0
1,968
Sharable Horizon
Lvl 31 Rogue God Emperor
600
December 2016
sharablehorizon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
|
Post by Sharable Horizon on Oct 20, 2021 4:54:17 GMT
People need to learn to differentiate favourite and best. Petrakus needs to heed his own advice...
|
|
inherit
1047
0
Jun 16, 2024 21:39:23 GMT
1,528
ClarkKent
935
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
|
Post by ClarkKent on Oct 20, 2021 9:11:33 GMT
It's interesting bringing up classic novels actually. It's not an unknown phenomena that novels that are regarded as 'classics' now were met with a middling reaction upon release. I know One of my favourite novels of all time and a consensus 'classic' Moby Dick basically bombed upon release. Indeed, if you were to look at the average Victorian newspaper and check out 'most popular books' you'd probably find a bunch of works that you've probably never heard of and have basically been lost in the annals of time.
The consensus 'best' continually changes. I will put a caveat on this by saying there are certain works that are just better than others. If a kid writes a poem his mom might think it's the best poem in the world, but in reality, it's probably no match to Milton and it would get panned by the literary world. There is no such gulf in the writing between DAI and DAO however. DAI arguably does aspects of the writing better than DAO and vice versa. Which is where subjectivity comes in.
On the topic of fan-art - I've noticed the opposite. It's basically all DAI and DA2 stuff.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,623
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 20, 2021 9:45:10 GMT
People need to learn to differentiate favourite and best. Petrakus needs to heed his own advice... Oh, the ironing.
Great answer, right next to "no", the attempts at debunking are just going through the roof.. How about you put some effort into something.
Why the fuck do I even bother with you?
|
|
inherit
1039
0
Jun 16, 2024 22:08:31 GMT
3,380
Lebanese Dude
Anti-Gamer Culture
1,614
Aug 17, 2016 14:13:30 GMT
August 2016
lebanesedude
|
Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 20, 2021 12:50:58 GMT
I think the last game having come out years ago is starting to get to people.
|
|
inherit
2147
0
Jun 16, 2024 17:45:16 GMT
2,731
Gwydden
1,269
November 2016
gwydden
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Gwydden on Oct 20, 2021 13:10:35 GMT
I think the last game having come out years ago is starting to get to people. "Starting"?
|
|
FiendishlyInventive
N3
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 442 Likes: 671
inherit
11686
0
Jun 15, 2024 15:38:06 GMT
671
FiendishlyInventive
442
Sept 28, 2020 6:41:23 GMT
September 2020
fiendishlyinventive
https://i.imgur.com/rVwKOll.jpg
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
BlueMarsalis79
|
Post by FiendishlyInventive on Oct 20, 2021 13:14:57 GMT
I mean I only played Inquisition starting a month ago or so, it's going so long without a good Dragon Age that's driving me batty personally, or indeed something that feels like the majority of the series' tone at all.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,270 Likes: 17,334
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
17,334
midnight tea
7,270
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Oct 20, 2021 15:22:20 GMT
I think the last game having come out years ago is starting to get to people. "Starting"? I'm not sure about 'starting', but I did notice that it usually can take several years and enough changes on the market for people to start more matured re-evaluation. It will continue as years pass. 10 years form now the assessment of each individual creative work will shift accordingly, although not necessarily only on 'it's good!'/it's bad!' axis, as there are many more ways to look at the creative piece. To me... this is normal? Like, yeah, we do have a batch of 'timeless classics' and things that hold well in time as far as appraisal goes, but after my time spent studying art I do find the idea of something (not just art... pretty much anything, really) being 'objectively good' or static when it comes to opinion on the thing over ages, as bizarre. This will naturally fluctuate in time. Anyway - while the wait is long, we're closer to release of DA4 than we were before and I expect DA4 to have an impact on how people view past chapters. Not necessarily 'oh, it's bad!' or 'oh, it's good!' (although that's inevitable), but perhaps in particular how the new title sits within the larger continuum and how the new title builds upon the old ones, both in-universe (story continuations; will some plot points have satisfying - or any - resolution) and out-of-universe (game development and what DA devs have learned over years or what they have implemented). For example - if DA4 does prove to be '2nd part of Inquisition' as Gaider mentioned (it may not be, but let's assume it's a possibility), then I suspect we may see DAIs evaluation to shoot up, at least from storytelling front, because several things people were iffy about may suddenly start making much more sense. Or, well, it may as well be the opposite. We'll see when we get there. Needless to say, I expect DA4's first impression to differ compared to appraisal made years later. ...Oh, and btw. I'm still amused by this gem you've posted some time ago ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/ArEmjZuxZjcaZiJPacBG.png) Going over that article on DA:O's development, and this bit is the most BSN thing ever:
|
|
inherit
11450
0
Jun 16, 2024 22:02:10 GMT
4,388
necrowaif
1,943
Mar 24, 2020 19:57:15 GMT
March 2020
necrowaif
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
|
Post by necrowaif on Oct 20, 2021 16:37:11 GMT
And now that red-headed stepchild is BioWare’s last hope. The irony, it is thick and delicious.
|
|
inherit
1039
0
Jun 16, 2024 22:08:31 GMT
3,380
Lebanese Dude
Anti-Gamer Culture
1,614
Aug 17, 2016 14:13:30 GMT
August 2016
lebanesedude
|
Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 20, 2021 16:44:00 GMT
After more than a decade of seeing how things turn out with game releases, it's pretty much understood that perceptions are mostly driven by communities rather than the product. I believe Mass Effect Andromeda was the first game where my experience was negatively affected by social media to an extent that was genuinely unfair to the developers despite the game having many, many, many valid criticisms and me experiencing bugs that were commonplace.
It's not necessarily a bad thing that communities can highlight issues, and many times the product is indeed rightfully blasted for being what is arguably objectively bad, but when it comes to RPGs with massive gameplay scopes and stories that people are particularly invested in, a lot can "go wrong" when all opinions are concatenated. The boon that comes from having all these resources to play these games armed with more knowledge can potentially damage your experience when you assume every bug or problem encountered by someone will inevitably happen to you (and this isnt true in most cases). Sometimes you even end up seeing "bad things" which you wouldn't even have noticed. A good example is where people point out plot holes in stories that you probably wouldn't have noticed without some "significant" study.
It's why I've made it a goal to avoid most opinions about games until after I play them. It's one reason I don't wallow on social media forums for games. I've found my experiences of games improved dramatically. Viewing things in retrospect tends to be more forgiving. My experience and fun isn't "as" affected.
Mass Effect 3 remains my favorite Mass Effect game precisely because I avoided all the forum nonsense. I will never forget lying on my bed for an hour digesting what just happened after picking red.
|
|
inherit
277
0
9,241
QuizzyBunny
No 1 bunny giffer
2,502
August 2016
theycallmebunny
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
InquisitorBunny
430
1114
|
Post by QuizzyBunny on Oct 20, 2021 18:03:34 GMT
I think with MEA the most unfair criticism was against the characters - several people expected them to be as good as the combined experience of the OT. Let's be real, it's not like the writing of Kaiden, Ashley, Liara and so on was that stellar in ME1 (to me personally only Wrex was pretty consistent across all titles, many of the others had huge improvements in the other games). Drack, Vetra, Jaal and Cora are examples that I feel are easily up to par with ME1 characters but were snubbed because they weren't as fleshed out as our beloved OG.
|
|
wright1978
N4
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,658 Likes: 2,505
inherit
1492
0
2,505
wright1978
1,658
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
|
Post by wright1978 on Oct 20, 2021 19:12:36 GMT
Personally I thought mea’s characters rather poor against other comparable characters, not just against multi game characters.
On the broader subject, the best you can hope for is your own subjective view of ‘best’ aligns closely with a lot of others . Da2 was my favourite dragon age game but I was very much in a minority there.
|
|
luketrevelyan
N4
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,550 Likes: 5,280
inherit
328
0
5,280
luketrevelyan
1,550
August 2016
luketrevelyan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by luketrevelyan on Oct 20, 2021 19:19:35 GMT
I think with MEA the most unfair criticism was against the characters - several people expected them to be as good as the combined experience of the OT. Let's be real, it's not like the writing of Kaiden, Ashley, Liara and so on was that stellar in ME1 (to me personally only Wrex was pretty consistent across all titles, many of the others had huge improvements in the other games). Drax, Vetra, Jaal and Cora are examples that I feel are easily up to par with ME1 characters but were snubbed because they weren't as fleshed out as our beloved OG. Or people just didn't connect to them. Many of my favorite BioWare characters have only appeared in one game so it doesn't need to be limiting in any way. MEA companions are a mix of bland and irritating to me. I do somewhat agree with ME1 companions but I think BioWare had improved in that aspect with basically every game after that until MEA, which felt like a huge step back to me.
|
|
inherit
7754
0
Jun 16, 2024 19:19:11 GMT
3,535
biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
2,257
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by biggydx on Oct 20, 2021 19:40:13 GMT
It's interesting bringing up classic novels actually. It's not an unknown phenomena that novels that are regarded as 'classics' now were met with a middling reaction upon release. I know One of my favourite novels of all time and a consensus 'classic' Moby Dick basically bombed upon release. Indeed, if you were to look at the average Victorian newspaper and check out 'most popular books' you'd probably find a bunch of works that you've probably never heard of and have basically been lost in the annals of time. The consensus 'best' continually changes. I will put a caveat on this by saying there are certain works that are just better than others. If a kid writes a poem his mom might think it's the best poem in the world, but in reality, it's probably no match to Milton and it would get panned by the literary world. There is no such gulf in the writing between DAI and DAO however. DAI arguably does aspects of the writing better than DAO and vice versa. Which is where subjectivity comes in. On the topic of fan-art - I've noticed the opposite. It's basically all DAI and DA2 stuff. Another example, in terms of movies, is The Thing (the initial 1982 John Carpenter movie). Fans today consider it to be a trendsetter for modern day body-horror movies, but it's initial critical reception was pretty negative at the time it released. Even though I gave DAO a playthrough, I thought the game was just "alright" when I played it at launch. It came off as kinda clunky for me, and even though I liked some of the story, as someone who just barely got into WRPGs with Jade Empire and Mass Effect, to some degree I was still kinda placid about the games lore and story. I think what matters when it comes to gaming is how familiarized you are within the genre your game inhabits. That plays a pretty big outlook on how you view things related to story telling and gameplay mechanics. I'm more appreciative of these games [WRPGs] now, but I needed to warm up to them first. I imagine the more action-based elements of both DAI and MEA was what garnered adoration for those titles from some players, though I'm sure other things also played a part. I'd be fine with moving on from the discussion though.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,623
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 20, 2021 19:50:08 GMT
I don't think in 2032 anyone will point to DA2, DA:I or TLoU2 as underrated classics. I don't see it happening for the Star Wars sequels, Star Trek: Discovery, or Chris Chinballs' Dr. Who, either. Some things are shit, the vast majority of things considered shit, do remain in the shit category forever. In fact, less things break out of the shit category, when dumped there, than break out. The idea that Twilight will be considered a masterpiece, 20 years later, is just absurd. Nobody remembers those movies anymore, nobody cares about them and the people involved, want nothing more to do with them.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Jun 16, 2024 22:13:56 GMT
32,235
colfoley
17,076
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Oct 20, 2021 20:11:39 GMT
I can see the sentiment afterall characters with more time that tend to develop often can come out better...or for a later example actuallythis does work to explain how people can course correct a character over multiple works and address criticism.
But despite this I found MEAs cast held up remarkably well. Drack and Jaal are among my favorite companions in the series and even after just completing the game this still holds up...while Liam and Peebee are certainly aquired tastes there is not a single character I dislike in the game, nor do I think there is one that is poorly written. Whereas the trilogy I think both of those things for Liara and Jack, and this one aspect makes Andromeda unique in BioWare games for me since every other game has one character that I do dislike or think was poorly written.
Overall even after playing through all four games Andromeda still has the second best cast of them and probably the third best of any BioWare game...which is also a large part of the reason I consider it my third favorite BioWare game overall.
|
|