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Post by DragonKingReborn on Mar 3, 2022 0:41:41 GMT
Wait?? what? I cannot talk about how I drink or eat in moderation?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Mar 3, 2022 0:57:00 GMT
Darn, looks I missed all the fun again.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 3, 2022 0:58:07 GMT
Darn, looks I missed all the fun again. you didn't miss much, really.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 3, 2022 1:46:10 GMT
On that note to I have often wondered if all of this is intentional parrellels. Like how much of Solas is based generally on trickster gods or how much of him is based off of Loki. After all it is also kind of interesting that he is the 'Dread Wolf' given Fenrir. So you're thinking that any Lavellans who want to try to redeem Solas may end up holding a bowl over his face to catch the venom dripping from the serpent placed in the rocks above him? What if they don't have kids with him? Whose entrails shall the Evanuris use to tie Solas down? (Except that the Evanuris may actually be the stand-ins for the Frost Giants since independent third party sources, ie the records in the Vir Dirthara, seem to indicate that they were as bad as Solas describes them... Hmmm. Then maybe the Forgotten Ones are the equivalent of the Norse gods? ;D )
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 3, 2022 1:50:35 GMT
Mike Jungbluth @lightbombmikeI just realized that I have now been at BioWare for four years. This is the longest I have stayed at a studio throughout my gamedev career. Which clearly says as much about me as it does the team here. And by golly, I can't wait for everyone to see what we have been up to. (Mike is the Animation Director for Dragon Age, so along with many other devs, he's excited for us to see what he's been working on. )
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Post by colfoley on Mar 3, 2022 3:34:41 GMT
On that note to I have often wondered if all of this is intentional parrellels. Like how much of Solas is based generally on trickster gods or how much of him is based off of Loki. After all it is also kind of interesting that he is the 'Dread Wolf' given Fenrir. So you're thinking that any Lavellans who want to try to redeem Solas may end up holding a bowl over his face to catch the venom dripping from the serpent placed in the rocks above him? What if they don't have kids with him? Whose entrails shall the Evanuris use to tie Solas down? (Except that the Evanuris may actually be the stand-ins for the Frost Giants since independent third party sources, ie the records in the Vir Dirthara, seem to indicate that they were as bad as Solas describes them... Hmmm. Then maybe the Forgotten Ones are the equivalent of the Norse gods? ;D ) Keep in mind to this point my only real knowledge of Norse Mythology comes from Stargate, God of War, Avengers, and Assassisns Creed Vahalla. Of them all I only ever learned anything from the latter. And I don't really know. I don't know if Solas is a direct reference to Loki or if he is just meant to represent the concept of trickster gods in general. And well Imean the only two inspirations I also would know of is Andruil seems to be close to Artemis and Elganarn could be mayyyybbbbbeee Ra.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 3, 2022 4:32:03 GMT
colfoley I wasn't serious. Just playing along with you. I do not think that Solas is directly drawing on Loki, other than the "he got along well with both the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones" thing, which is like Norse Loki getting along just fine with both the Aesir (gods) and the Jotun (frost giants). As far as we know, though, Solas has not given birth to any sort of magical steed. Loki, on the other hand, did take the form of a mare to entice away the stallion of a contractor that Odin wanted to cheat, was impregnated by said stallion, and gave birth to Sleipnir, whom he then gifted to Odin. As far as we know, Solas hasn't fathered any monsters, either. Loki was the father of Hel, goddess of death, Fenrir the wolf who will devour the sun and kill Odin at Ragnarok, and Jörmungand, the World Serpent. But who knows, maybe we'll eventually find out that he helped Ghilan'nain make her monsters? (I doubt it, but he is implicated in convincing her to leave sea monsters of some sort alive when she was under orders to kill everything she'd made in preparation for her apotheosis.) I think Solas draws from the general idea of trickster gods. You could ascribe some of his traits to other, different trickster gods. He tells lots of stories, like Anansi. I know that MidnightTea has often suggested he is like Prometheus. And although Raven was not really venerated as a god by the Haida, he was definitely a trickster and transformer of things - sometimes by accident (sounds familiar?) and sometimes on purpose. Raven quite famously even transformed the world, much like Solas! Then of course as others have said, Solas has the dubious title of the betrayer - rather like the devil, who also tries to trick people in many legends, especially Irish ones. And pretty much all the legendary tricksters and trickster gods I can think of are known for being intelligent and able to outwit more powerful enemies through cleverness, creativity, and wit. Whatever Solas did to trap the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones seems to have similarly been done through cleverness, creativity, and wit. Finally, many trickster gods were at least somewhat rebellious! Prometheus stole fire and gave it to mortals against Zeus' will, Lucifer led angels in a rebellion against Yahweh, Loki betrayed the Aesir by killing their beloved Baldr, Raven steals the light from his adoptive father and gives it back to the world, Anansi was a symbol of and inspiration for resistance among enslaved Africans and their descendants. And, as we know, Solas rebelled against the Evanuris. As an added note, we shouldn't forget that Patrick Weekes has said that some of their inspiration for Solas was taken from the tenth Doctor Who as played by David Tennant, and The Riddler from the Batman universe. ETA: Fixed some typos.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 3, 2022 10:16:13 GMT
I think we have to differentiate what Solas actually did from the picture of Fen'Harel as it's mostly the latter I'm arguing is a trickster god (Solas himself we barely know what he was). I was arguing wholly from the Dalish perspective because that is what informs Lavellan's view of Fen'Harel. My argument is that the chief reason for his title of Lord of Tricksters is the fact that he did manage to fool both sets of gods and draw them into his trap. However, they do seem to see him as more than just a neutral character when it comes to morality, although Solas himself does not acknowledge either good or evil. I've already mentioned what they believe about Fen'Harel feasting on souls, which by any parameter is not a good act. They also speak of him giggling with glee after shutting away the gods. Since the Dalish believe the Creators were benign overlords, that would also be seen as the actions of an evil character. Those elves who have encountered the presence of the Dread Wolf in the Fade also believe he is patrolling there to ensure the gods cannot escape/be freed from his prison. Again, this would be seen as a desire to prevent the elves from being aided by their good gods. Whilst they use his statue at the edge of camp to ward off evil spirits and make offerings of appeasement to him to leave them alone, this is more to deflect his ire from them onto other beings rather than seeing that he can be helpful. He is even thought to be the god of ill luck and misfortune; in other words his tricks are malicious. Merrill's tale of the Courser and the Wolf is also very telling. She says: "But then the Dread Wolf came, for the Keeper was wise and kind—the things Fen’Harel hates above all else. At night, he tried to steal into the Keeper’s dreams, to twist his mind and turn him against the People." Now this is interesting because Solas would be capable of doing this and it may well be that initially he tried to sway elves to his side through their dreams. Still the important thing to note is that Merrill, who has been trained as a Keeper, believes that Fen'Harel hates those who are wise and kind and wants to twist the minds of others into becoming a betrayer as he was. So, whilst you may well be correct in saying that Loki was the original inspiration for the character of the Dread Wolf, the Dalish clearly see him as a malign, evil influence, who uses his cleverness to trick others into doing bad things. For that matter, even his friend Felassan is quite prepared to show him in an unfavourable light, for example in the story about his advice to the elf suitor to kill a person so there will be another funeral to which the girl of his desires will be invited. That is encouraging someone to do an evil act for personal gain; exactly what the devil would do. Satan has always been primarily known as a tempter and the listener can either succumb to the temptation or resist it. In other words he is a trickster because whilst the inducement can seem beneficial to the person in the short term, it will invariably backfire on them in the corruption of their soul. "May the Dread Wolf take you," is a Dalish curse. Solas even references this in his conversation with Lavellan and she can respond that "he did take me" (or words to that effect) which is when Solas responds that she did nothing against her will, which is in fact exactly what Satan would say; it was your choice to get involved with me, implying that he feels no responsibility for her predicament.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Mar 3, 2022 14:16:29 GMT
"May the Dread Wolf take you," is a Dalish curse. Solas even references this in his conversation with Lavellan and she can respond that "he did take me" (or words to that effect) which is when Solas responds that she did nothing against her will, which is in fact exactly what Satan would say; it was your choice to get involved with me, implying that he feels no responsibility for her predicament. While I agree with all your other paragraphs, Solas doesn't actually deflect blame for getting involved with him to a romanced Lavellan. The exact conversation goes like this (emphasis mine): Solas: And now you know. What is the old Dalish curse? “May the Dread Wolf take you”? Inquisitor: And so he did. Solas: I did not. I would not lay with you under false pretenses.Inquisitor: But you lied to me. I loved you. Did you really think I wouldn’t have understood? Solas: Ir abelas, vhenan. (Translates as “I’m sorry, heart.”) Inquisitor: Tel’abelas. If you care, give me the truth. (Translates as “Don’t be sorry. If you care, give me the truth.”) Solas: I sought to set my people free from slavery to would-be gods. I broke the chains of all who wished to join me. The false gods called me Fen’Harel, and when they finally went too far, I formed the Veil and banished them forever. Thus I freed the elven people and, in so doing, destroyed their world. And that line can either be construed to mean "I didn't sleep with you," or "When we were intimate, the things we felt for one another were not a lie." That's left to the player to decide for themselves. Lavellan then rightfully points out that he has lied to her about his true identity. No talk of blaming her for getting involved with him, though. Where he does deflect responsibility (to all Inquisitors, no less) is later in the discussion in Trespasser, after you've asked him about Eluvians and Evanuris, etc., and even then, only if you choose certain options. If you ask "Why should I be concerned about the Inquisition?" That conversation can go like this (emphasis mine): Inquisitor: What’s wrong with the Inquisition? Solas: You created a powerful organization, and now it suffers the inevitable fate of such: betrayal and corruption. Inquisitor: It’s not that simple. Solas: Do you know how I discovered the Qunari plot? The plot I disrupted by leading them to your doorstep? The Qunari spies in the Inquisition tripped over my spies in the Inquisition. The elven guard who led you to the Qunari body, who intercepted the servant with the gaatlok barrel? Mine. If you choose to investigate further, it goes on like this:Inquisitor: Why bother disrupting the Qunari plot, if you’re going to destroy the world regardless? Solas: You have shown me that there is value in this world, Inquisitor. I take no joy in what I must do. Until that day comes, I would see those recovering from the Breach free of the Qun. Inquisitor: Why? Solas: Because I am not a monster. If they must die, I would rather they die in comfort. In any event, it is done. And then one of two options for responding to him can go like this:Inquisitor: So you let us do your dirty work. Solas: The mistake was yours to fix, Inquisitor.So there he is basically accusing the Inquisitor of not paying enough to attention to what was going on among the rank and file of the Inquisition, and telling them they only have themselves to blame for all the corruption and for how easy it was for both the Qunari and Solas to put spies in the organization.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 3, 2022 15:17:48 GMT
Solas: And now you know. What is the old Dalish curse? “May the Dread Wolf take you”? Inquisitor: And so he did. Solas: I did not. I would not lay with you under false pretenses.Solas chooses to take a somewhat literal interpretation of what she says. Whereas my understanding is somewhat more subtle. The curse is "May the Dread Wolf take you", in other words possess your soul and, as she says, he did indeed do that to her when she fell in love with him. Yet he denies this, claiming that whether he slept with her or not (according to how you view their relationship), his feelings were genuine. That may be true but, as she points out, he wasn't honest with her and thus he lived up to his reputation. The Dread Wolf took her by deception and, since she still loves him, he has consumed her soul as a result. That is my interpretation of how she must view it, based on her religion. Now we can say that events have demonstrated that her religion is false when it comes to the Evanuris and Fen'Harel but how does she know for certain? The ruins they passed through belonged to him and his servants. There was also that warning from the gods. So the elf in humble guises fulfilled what the gods said about him. His fair words turned to poison but she is trapped by her feelings for him and cannot escape. Then he walks away from her a second time having said he is going to destroy her world and she still loves him. Hasn't the Dread Wolf taken her?
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 3, 2022 18:50:21 GMT
BioWare @biowareDYK the fennec fox, found in the mountainous regions of Ferelden and Orlais, is a real species native to Northern Africa and the northern Sinai peninsula. Just like their Thedas counterparts, these little foxes have large, distinctive ears. #DragonAge Happy #WorldWildlifeDay!
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 3, 2022 19:12:32 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 3, 2022 19:19:31 GMT
DYK the fennec fox, found in the mountainous regions of Ferelden and Orlais, is a real species native to Northern Africa and the northern Sinai peninsula. I always knew this. And here is the real thing.
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 3, 2022 19:24:40 GMT
Jay Watamaniuk @jaywatamaniuk20 years of learning from the best. #BioWare
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 3, 2022 19:51:34 GMT
Give us Leliana already! Morrigan already has one
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Exalt the Dwarf Age!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Mar 3, 2022 21:01:02 GMT
Give us Leliana already! Morrigan already has one Yes please! I wholeheartedly endorse this suggestion!
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Post by wickedcool on Mar 5, 2022 1:13:18 GMT
Reading on comic book about a new ea patent and they mention mass effect and da4 and how your companions will possibly react to your decisions and anticipate your combat style
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Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 5, 2022 2:39:56 GMT
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 5, 2022 3:57:01 GMT
Huh, interesting!
I kind of love the idea of companions actually being able to notice what I do in combat, although I worry that it's going to upset them. (Poor Alistair, constantly yelling 'Plan B! Plan B!!!' while low on health. Oh, honey. You're the tank! You being beaten senseless is Plan B.)
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Post by eaglepursuit on Mar 5, 2022 6:54:47 GMT
Tactically adaptable companion AIs is pretty darn interesting. I suppose if you do a certain combination of actions over and over, a companion would optimize a reaction that supports your preferred move set?
Conversely, what if this feature were applied to antagonist AIs? If you beat bandits the same way over and over, they begin to adapt and optimize a way to counter your preferred move set.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 5, 2022 7:08:24 GMT
Tactically adaptable companion AIs is pretty darn interesting. I suppose if you do a certain combination of actions over and over, a companion would optimize a reaction that supports your preferred move set? Conversely, what if this feature were applied to antagonist AIs? If you beat bandits the same way over and over, they begin to adapt and optimize a way to counter your preferred move set. It could even work on a broader scale then that. What if the game and the bandits gave whole other units which could counter your play style? Ostensiably the in universe explanation would be said bandits would hear of your exploits and move to equip their people thus. Thogu based on the last paragraph or so of the article I will wait for BioWare to say that kind of thing will even be in the game.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Mar 5, 2022 7:08:49 GMT
Huh, interesting! I kind of love the idea of companions actually being able to notice what I do in combat, although I worry that it's going to upset them. (Poor Alistair, constantly yelling 'Plan B! Plan B!!!' while low on health. Oh, honey. You're the tank! You being beaten senseless is Plan B.) Oh my god, thinking about this being implemented in DAI... My Inquisitor would not have many friends. But I gotta do what I gotta do! Sometimes it's okay for Dorian the Necromancer to be knocked out. He provides a distraction that way, if you level him right. EDIT: no but if DA4 companions get mad at the way I fight, I’ll show them how I fight. To their face! **** out of here lol
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Post by river82 on Mar 5, 2022 7:54:04 GMT
Reading on comic book about a new ea patent and they mention mass effect and da4 and how your companions will possibly react to your decisions and anticipate your combat style Reacting to decisions is always really nice, looking forward to seeing how they implement that Reacting to your combat style is one of those things where I'm going to have to see it before I get hyped about it. I feel like this is a setting myself up for disappointment kind of scenario. I've very much learnt my lesson, remember the huge amount of hype surrounding Bethesda's "radiant AI" in Oblivion after they showed an, in hindsight, incredibly scripted piece of footage at E3 and it turned out to just be an NPC schedule Not going to "read between the lines" anymore, will wait for the product.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Mar 5, 2022 8:46:20 GMT
Reading on comic book about a new ea patent and they mention mass effect and da4 and how your companions will possibly react to your decisions and anticipate your combat style Reacting to decisions is always really nice, looking forward to seeing how they implement that Reacting to your combat style is one of those things where I'm going to have to see it before I get hyped about it. I feel like this is a setting myself up for disappointment kind of scenario. I've very much learnt my lesson, remember the huge amount of hype surrounding Bethesda's "radiant AI" in Oblivion after they showed an, in hindsight, incredibly scripted piece of footage at E3 and it turned out to just be an NPC schedule Not going to "read between the lines" anymore, will wait for the product. Yeah, I agree. Anticipation through learning for video game companions would be huge, but, like you, I am very sceptical. Would be amazing if it can be made to work, though.
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Post by Rascoth on Mar 5, 2022 10:05:54 GMT
(Poor Alistair, constantly yelling 'Plan B! Plan B!!!' while low on health. Oh, honey. You're the tank! You being beaten senseless is Plan B.) After reading this, I don't know why, but I instantly thought about this
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