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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 4, 2022 17:57:32 GMT
Can anyone remind me. Did the 2020 BTS video and game trailer used to be on the official Bioware site? Only I can't seem to find them there any more?
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 4, 2022 18:01:01 GMT
So bringing back Harding would not be precluded by Dorian being the companion link with DAI. I think companion link is wrong term for Dorian. Yes i think he is a link to DAI similiar to DAI Leliana to DAO. Well could be but i believe more that Bioware want to make sure that even the worse outcome the player has always Dorian as a mage. Well i want to believe that Dorian is the leader of the Lucerni and Harding & / or Charter are the Inquisition contacts in Tevinter. Could be maybe Leliana, Charter or Josephine have calm Dorian down over the years.
Speaking of Leliana i don´t think that she will be in DAD. I also can´t imagine that Bioware will bring back Alistair, Loghain or the original Dog of the Hero of Ferelden.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Jun 4, 2022 18:07:23 GMT
Can anyone remind me. Did the 2020 BTS video and game trailer used to be on the official Bioware site? Only I can't seem to find them there any more? I still see them both on dragonage.com in a slideshow kind of format mixed with images and concept art.
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 4, 2022 18:49:34 GMT
If the same amount of enthusiasm and effort they are putting into their "woke" tweeterings is being put into making the actual game we're going to have a hit coming our way.
As has been said, BioWare has been "woke" for a long time now and to me that kind of content has become a natural part of their games, the occasional blunders included.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 4, 2022 19:06:51 GMT
After doing some digging it’s seems the person crying about Dragon Age being woke never played beyond the first game. I doubt he has any real sources he just want something to cry about. if this is the same guy then context is for Kings indeed. Probably should be mocked since this position is just plain silly. Although Iakus does have a point though especially since woke obviously has different connotations to different people. Why I try to avoid using the word myself...but they really should remember that.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 4, 2022 19:08:17 GMT
That entire "woke" twitter discussion thread. I really love the Was it… ever?… not ”woke” by their standards? Maybe we should have tried harder.and And, holy hannah, if Dragon Age wasn’t already “woke” by their standards, what would be? Also, I guess DADdy is going to be very woke now because the team seems very fired up to crank it up. On a serious note, I take the origin of that entire discussion is that someone learned Maevaris Tilani has a big role in the game. What is "woke" anyway? People are so vague on the term. It date back to the 1930s and back then it meant " aware of the racial prejudices and discriminations" impacting the Afro-Americans (they invented the term). Back around 2017, with BLM, it became popular again and used in its proper context. By 2020, it started to be used as an insult/pejorative by the alt right demographic against anything they consider leftist/progressive...
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Post by colfoley on Jun 4, 2022 19:12:34 GMT
What is "woke" anyway? People are so vague on the term. It date back to the 1930s and back them it meant " aware of the racial prejudices and discriminations" impacting the Afro-Americans (they invented the term). Back around 2017, with BLM, it became popular again and used in its proper context. By 2020, it started to be used as an insult/pejorative by the alt right demographic against anything they consider leftist/progressive... always love a good history lesson.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2022 19:12:48 GMT
Antifa. Woke. What will we make fun of next? Critthinkers? Those people are so dumb...
It's almost like there is a small portion of society that hates all the rest of us, and has to co-opt anything good we talk about and try to turn it into ridicule.
Anti-Fascist.... something I really thought we would all agree on! LOL
Woke - aware of what is going on, seeing through the haze... Seems like a good thing, I dunno.
BioWare has been trying to include all of us, even the psychopath haters, in their games. This is laudible, this is what keeps me coming back despite much disappointment.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 4, 2022 19:14:41 GMT
If the same amount of enthusiasm and effort they are putting into their "woke" tweeterings is being put into making the actual game we're going to have a hit coming our way. As has been said, BioWare has been "woke" for a long time now and to me that kind of content has become a natural part of their games, the occasional blunders included. And that´s why Dreadwolf should feature a transgender companion like Maevaris. A transgender companion is only next logical step after the things Bioware already have done.
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Post by Spectr61 on Jun 4, 2022 19:16:19 GMT
Hey Hrungr -
Any data from the vaults on the most pages for a BSN thread?
Just trying to gauge relative interest, and 679 fer this'n a year from launch seems a lot....
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Post by smilesja on Jun 4, 2022 19:18:21 GMT
What is "woke" anyway? People are so vague on the term. It date back to the 1930s and back them it meant " aware of the racial prejudices and discriminations" impacting the Afro-Americans (they invented the term). Back around 2017, with BLM, it became popular again and used in its proper context. By 2020, it started to be used as an insult/pejorative by the alt right demographic against anything they consider leftist/progressive... Yeah I know the origins, I just needed to know today's context considering everyone is throwing that term to anything they don't like.
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 4, 2022 19:26:26 GMT
Antifa. Woke. What will we make fun of next? Critthinkers? Those people are so dumb... It's almost like there is a small portion of society that hates all the rest of us, and has to co-opt anything good we talk about and try to turn it into ridicule. Anti-Fascist.... something I really thought we would all agree on! LOL Woke - aware of what is going on, seeing through the haze... Seems like a good thing, I dunno. BioWare has been trying to include all of us, even the psychopath haters, in their games. This is laudible, this is what keeps me coming back despite much disappointment. People thinking they are especially aware of what is going on can be a good or bad thing as people are very imperfect beings who canbe right and wrong.
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Post by KingDarious BBB on Jun 4, 2022 19:48:31 GMT
Anytime I see anyone bring up of stuff being woke it’s from people like Geeks and Gamers, TheQuartering, and Nerdrotic. People that create false culture wars, and use cringe terms like M-She-U. I have never seen them argue in good faith.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2022 19:55:05 GMT
That is the effectiveness of the campaign, and also the general deficiency of the human brain across the population.
I am not sure what the clever designer had in mind, making raw intelligence an unspecified variable with a nasty RNG. The dice has so many sides.... and nobody asked for that.
Of course, people that are "true believers", whatever their belief, have already jumped the shark. Bad apples everywhere, when groupthink is regimented.
I am rooting for Solas.
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 4, 2022 20:00:17 GMT
Given the number of people in the thread saying that calling the game a 'woke disaster' is more likely to get them to buy it, it probably is.
BioWare have always been extremely clear that people who object to Dragon Age being 'woke' should not let the door hit them in the ass on the way out. That's not an audience they care about or want to appeal to.
And the proper, PROFESSIONAL response should be: "We're sorry you feel that way. We believe our game will be fun and accessible to people of all walks of life. We hope that the game when released, it will speak for itself" But deliberately alienating anyone, regardless of how you feel about them, or how they feel about you, well, I work in public service, and my bosses would NOT appreciate me talking that way to anyone, as it would reflect poorly on them. To be fair, the Game Director's first response just 'clarified' that if the woke meant rapresentation, then yes, the game would be woke. She didn't the mock the person who made the claim. And while some responses could be considered as mocking (although I didn't read and remember all of them), most were about how previous games would fit the definition of woke already, as well as back and forth joked between devs and former devs. It should be noted that more then a few replies in that thread were made by former devs. While I get your point, I'd also say that reactions are, more often then not, strictly connected by what caused them. I think a different tweet would've likely generated a different response. If the same amount of enthusiasm and effort they are putting into their "woke" tweeterings is being put into making the actual game we're going to have a hit coming our way. As has been said, BioWare has been "woke" for a long time now and to me that kind of content has become a natural part of their games, the occasional blunders included. I mean, I wouldn't consider that thread that big of an effort. It's mostly a conversation that went on between current and former devs. I'd also say that I don't think that what's lacking in Bioware in enthusiam or efforts. The ironic part about the all 'woke' debate is that some people aren't even aware that Bioware gets also quite criticized for how their 'woke' content is actually lackluster or badly made. Sera and Dorian had their fair share of criticism, alongside fans, expecially the former.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 4, 2022 20:00:21 GMT
Anytime I see anyone bring up of stuff being woke it’s from people like Geeks and Gamers, TheQuartering, and Nerdrotic. People that create false culture wars, and use cringe terms like M-She-U. I have never seen them argue in good faith. They're all grifters looking to profit off the current divide.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 4, 2022 20:08:05 GMT
The ironic part about the all 'woke' debate is that some people aren't even aware that Bioware gets also quite criticized for how their 'woke' content is actually lackluster or badly made. Sera and Dorian had their fair share of criticism, alongside fans, expecially the former. Probably because they don't publicly mock those fans.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 4, 2022 20:18:56 GMT
What is "woke" anyway? People are so vague on the term. It date back to the 1930s and back then it meant " aware of the racial prejudices and discriminations" impacting the Afro-Americans (they invented the term). Back around 2017, with BLM, it became popular again and used in its proper context. By 2020, it started to be used as an insult/pejorative by the alt right demographic against anything they consider leftist/progressive... That's the strawman definition, yes. Another definition that applies is being "puritanically progressive" . To aggressively harp on a social, political, or cultural perspective to the point of intolerance towards any differing view. Or even towards those that are insufficiently fervent in approval of said view. Such behavior often costs whatever sympathy you might otherwise have earned and actually dissuades people from listening to the arguments. People don't appreciate being called an "istaphobe" for having a differnt opinion or taste. You could say, from a certain point of view, that wokism is the left-wing version of McCarthyism. I could provide some RL examples, but I doubt that would be appropriate or appreciated in this thread or forum.
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 4, 2022 20:24:22 GMT
The ironic part about the all 'woke' debate is that some people aren't even aware that Bioware gets also quite criticized for how their 'woke' content is actually lackluster or badly made. Sera and Dorian had their fair share of criticism, alongside fans, expecially the former. Probably because they don't publicly mock those fans. I recall more then a few times Gaider, when he was still a dev in Bioware, talking quite heatedly about Dorian, and I think there were discussions about Sera as well. Also, I don't get the correlation between people knowing about the criticism leant towards the LGBT content for how lackluster they are, and the devs mocking or not those fans. That'd be more about people knowing that Bioware devs react to people criticizing their games/content in a different way based on the kind of criticism directed at them. I think it's because the people complaining about what I'm saying are, possible, not the majority, or a sizable part of the fanbase. Although time might also influence that, as the conversations about Sera, which I recall being quite heated and 'popular' at the time, likely dwindled in the years after Inquisition. While the criticism of Bioware overall remained steady, if not higher, in the last few years.
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 4, 2022 20:29:14 GMT
It date back to the 1930s and back then it meant " aware of the racial prejudices and discriminations" impacting the Afro-Americans (they invented the term). Back around 2017, with BLM, it became popular again and used in its proper context. By 2020, it started to be used as an insult/pejorative by the alt right demographic against anything they consider leftist/progressive... That's the strawman definition, yes. Another definition that applies is being "puritanically progressive" . To aggressively harp on a social, political, or cultural perspective to the point of intolerance towards any differing view. Or even towards those that are insufficiently fervent in approval of said view. Such behavior often costs whatever sympathy you might otherwise have earned and actually dissuades people from listening to the arguments. People don't appreciate being called an "istaphobe" for having a differnt opinion or taste. You could say, from a certain point of view, that wokism is the left-wing version of McCarthyism. I could provide some RL examples, but I doubt that would be appropriate or appreciated in this thread or forum. I wouldn't say it's a strawman definition, at least in connection to the fact that, if the term was used exclusively in the cases you described, it'd be used a lot less then it actually is. Edit: case in point, the use of the term to describe Dreadwolf.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 4, 2022 20:41:20 GMT
Probably because they don't publicly mock those fans. I recall more then a few times Gaider, when he was still a dev in Bioware, talking quite heatedly about Dorian, and I think there were discussions about Sera as well. Also, I don't get the correlation between people knowing about the criticism leant towards the LGBT content for how lackluster they are, and the devs mocking or not those fans. That'd be more about people knowing that Bioware devs react to people criticizing their games/content in a different way based on the kind of criticism directed at them. I think it's because the people complaining about what I'm saying are, possible, not the majority, or a sizable part of the fanbase. Although time might also influence that, as the conversations about Sera, which I recall being quite heated and 'popular' at the time, likely dwindled in the years after Inquisition. While the criticism of Bioware overall remained steady, if not higher, in the last few years. Then I'll clarify: People who complained about Sera or Dorian being lackluster examples of LGBT content weren't accused of being racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. People who complain of Bioware becoming increasingly aggressive in promoting such content (rightly or wrongly) ARE. And sometimes by those very devs. I actually admired how Gaider would go out of his way to explain his reasoning behind decisions he made. I didn't always agree with him. But I appreciate that he'd talk about them rather than take potshots behind Twitter. Nowadays, there is no debate, heated or otherwise. RE: correlation, it's because Bioware is much more conciliatory towards one group over the other. The mocking and hot takes are better for clicks on gamer sites. I mean, which is more sensational "Bioware dev explains reasons behind Dorian's tension with his father" or "Bioware dev slams Istaphobes on Twitter"? As for current complaints, I thin Bioware has bigger problems than Twitter nerds complaining about how wokeness given what happened to their last two games.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 4, 2022 20:46:36 GMT
That's the strawman definition, yes. Another definition that applies is being "puritanically progressive" . To aggressively harp on a social, political, or cultural perspective to the point of intolerance towards any differing view. Or even towards those that are insufficiently fervent in approval of said view. Such behavior often costs whatever sympathy you might otherwise have earned and actually dissuades people from listening to the arguments. People don't appreciate being called an "istaphobe" for having a differnt opinion or taste. You could say, from a certain point of view, that wokism is the left-wing version of McCarthyism. I could provide some RL examples, but I doubt that would be appropriate or appreciated in this thread or forum. I wouldn't say it's a strawman definition, at least in connection to the fact that, if the term was used exclusively in the cases you described, it'd be used a lot less then it actually is. Edit: case in point, the use of the term to describe Dreadwolf. Depends on who's using the term. It it used more by people accusing something of being woke, or is it used to accuse someone of thinking something is woke? As to the upcoming game, given we don't have a description, or even a trailer, we can't say if it will be woke or not (barring people claiming to have heard leaks) But the words and actions of the devs, such as things said on social media CAN be said to be "woke" (which people can agree or disagree) and THAT can give an impression on what the game may be like. And that's why I think developers should maintain a degree of professionalism when on social media. What they say reflects on what they do.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 4, 2022 21:06:35 GMT
Honestly, I wish they called out the bigots more. And yes if you are complaining about something have more PoC or LGBTQ+ characters, you are a racist, homophonic, transphobic, etc bigot.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 4, 2022 21:20:35 GMT
Honestly, I wish they called out the bigots more. And yes if you are complaining about something have more PoC or LGBTQ+ characters, you are a racist, homophonic, transphobic, etc bigot. I agree but with one exception which is legit critism / or should i say better advice? that not every possible NPC should be made into a LGBTQ+ character. Cullen or Cassandra are straight and that´s also great as Dorian and Sera are gay.
I also don´t know if i am a big fan of patching Jaal bisexual just for the sake of having a male bisexual companion but if Jaal were original designed to bisexual like Bull or Josephine there would be no problem of course.
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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The Elder King
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theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 4, 2022 21:30:04 GMT
I recall more then a few times Gaider, when he was still a dev in Bioware, talking quite heatedly about Dorian, and I think there were discussions about Sera as well. Also, I don't get the correlation between people knowing about the criticism leant towards the LGBT content for how lackluster they are, and the devs mocking or not those fans. That'd be more about people knowing that Bioware devs react to people criticizing their games/content in a different way based on the kind of criticism directed at them. I think it's because the people complaining about what I'm saying are, possible, not the majority, or a sizable part of the fanbase. Although time might also influence that, as the conversations about Sera, which I recall being quite heated and 'popular' at the time, likely dwindled in the years after Inquisition. While the criticism of Bioware overall remained steady, if not higher, in the last few years. Then I'll clarify: People who complained about Sera or Dorian being lackluster examples of LGBT content weren't accused of being racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. People who complain of Bioware becoming increasingly aggressive in promoting such content (rightly or wrongly) ARE. And sometimes by those very devs. I actually admired how Gaider would go out of his way to explain his reasoning behind decisions he made. I didn't always agree with him. But I appreciate that he'd talk about them rather than take potshots behind Twitter. Nowadays, there is no debate, heated or otherwise. RE: correlation, it's because Bioware is much more conciliatory towards one group over the other. The mocking and hot takes are better for clicks on gamer sites. I mean, which is more sensational "Bioware dev explains reasons behind Dorian's tension with his father" or "Bioware dev slams Istaphobes on Twitter"? As for current complaints, I thin Bioware has bigger problems than Twitter nerds complaining about how wokeness given what happened to their last two games. That's a complete separate issue, though, in comparison of what I was mentioning before, so I'm not sure what's the correlation with the former. The first group wouldn't be accused of being racist, transphobic or homophobic because they're arguing that Bioware did a bad job in portraying said content. I'm not one that'd accuse someone of those things without a deeper knowledge on the person that argues about Bioware promoting said content...although I'd question how exactly Bioware became more aggressive in promoting such content, expecially in case of games like DAI were the additional romances in the game, for example, were restricted to straight (women). I do agree that Bioware have bigger issues then those kind of complaints. It doesn't mean that they have to be silent. I could see your point in regards of how they approached said debate, though. I do think howewer that they situation could be analyzed by the other side as well, as too many people associate Bioware's lackluster results in recent years with their 'wokeness', when that part of their content has very little to do with the quality of their games, as well as the issues they had in developing several of the last ones. I wouldn't say it's a strawman definition, at least in connection to the fact that, if the term was used exclusively in the cases you described, it'd be used a lot less then it actually is. Edit: case in point, the use of the term to describe Dreadwolf. Depends on who's using the term. It it used more by people accusing something of being woke, or is it used to accuse someone of thinking something is woke? As to the upcoming game, given we don't have a description, or even a trailer, we can't say if it will be woke or not (barring people claiming to have heard leaks) But the words and actions of the devs, such as things said on social media CAN be said to be "woke" (which people can agree or disagree) and THAT can give an impression on what the game may be like. And that's why I think developers should maintain a degree of professionalism when on social media. What they say reflects on what they do. I figure it probably happen on both cases, but I was referring to the first case. While your description could be accurare in certain cases, there are others were the term is being used to describe anything left-leaning, in combination with the far-left term. I can get behind your point of waiting to see the game, but I honestly can't see how it'll be a 'woke disaster', other then having a fair share of rapresentation of the LGBT community in the game, which would make it no different then the other DA games. The problem with your point on professionalism, is that even if the devs would response to game-related matters professionally (I still think that many of those responses weren't as bad as you think, at least in regards of that thread), they still post stuff about their private life and personal opinions. People would accuse them to be 'woke' by judging them based on said posts. The only way this could be 'fixed', based on your point, is by posting only stuff related to the games, and not their personal life or opinions, which isn't going to happen, and I can't fault them for expressing their views.
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