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Post by themikefest on Dec 20, 2018 19:34:05 GMT
Don't know who would join Solas. If any of them do, they'll be dealt with just as Solas will be dealt with.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 20, 2018 19:34:05 GMT
Also, Calpernia does make a point that she saw many magical deformities stemming from questionable use of magic (hmm... makes me wonder how many deformed nobles we're going to see in Minrathous? Actually the story says she had seen magical deformities before, some of them self-inflicted but it doesn't say "many". We know from Feynriel that he had witnessed two mages duelling in the street in Minrathous and presumably some magic wounds in a way that cannot be healed. Self inflicted deformities could simply come about through magical backlash, although who is to say some mages don't risk experimenting on themselves for more power. However, I don't think we should think of it as commonplace, simply that in a city with such a large population of mages, you are likely to run across such magical deformities from time to time. Remember though that anyone with such a deformity would probably normally be shunned by polite society, as Dorian tells us the Altus at least aim for the perfect specimen, perfect body as well as perfect mind.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 20, 2018 19:38:20 GMT
even generally magic-accepting Dalish are afraid of the Fade... which is amusing, considering that Fade is the source of magic). Actually they are wary of any magic involving spirits, which is not quite the same as saying they are afraid of the Fade. They regard spirits in the Fade rather as they view dangerous predators in the wilds. If they were afraid of the wilderness they wouldn't live there but they know they have to operate with caution and treat the other inhabitants with a wary respect. So it is the spirits they fear not the place they exist in.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 20, 2018 19:46:10 GMT
Speaking of deformities - we know that drinking dragon's blood/blood magic can do that too. Many dragon-hunting Pentaghasts became quite deformed and aggressive as a result. Yes, I imagine it is pushing the bounds of magic in a similar way that results in the self-inflicted deformities Calpernia is aware of. Just as using lyrium all your life can make a mage feeble minded and forgetful, like the one we meet in Kinloch Hold. World of Thedas makes no distinction between Templars and mages when it says that it is addictive and so it probably does affect both over time. Given the amount of lyrium use there probably is in Tevinter it is probable that older mages do suffer both physical and mental affects owing to prolonged use.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 20, 2018 19:50:05 GMT
Also, Calpernia does make a point that she saw many magical deformities stemming from questionable use of magic (hmm... makes me wonder how many deformed nobles we're going to see in Minrathous? Actually the story says she had seen magical deformities before, some of them self-inflicted but it doesn't say "many". We know from Feynriel that he had witnessed two mages duelling in the street in Minrathous and presumably some magic wounds in a way that cannot be healed. Self inflicted deformities could simply come about through magical backlash, although who is to say some mages don't risk experimenting on themselves for more power. However, I don't think we should think of it as commonplace, simply that in a city with such a large population of mages, you are likely to run across such magical deformities from time to time. Remember though that anyone with such a deformity would probably normally be shunned by polite society, as Dorian tells us the Altus at least aim for the perfect specimen, perfect body as well as perfect mind. The text doesn't say how often she saw it - but, obviously, enough for her to not run away screaming from Corypheus or not really even fazed that much about the extent of his deformities (in contrast to his power). Also - I specifically mused about Minrathous and nobles in it, because I think it's more than likely that they have a higher percentage of magical deformities to spot there. Seems only logical. And the fact that Altus strive to have perfect offspring doesn't necessarily mean that they achieve that goal - and when they do not, it's sensible to assume that they use a ton of magic to substitute what they lack. We know even from Calpernia's story that the magic of the noble who tried to stop her at the end turned out to be pitiful and the guy had to surround himself with guards the blood of which he used to cast more powerful spells. So what matters in Tevinter is more apparition than the actual truth and the truth itself gets overridden with power. And if you get a ton of it how you look doesn't seem terribly important.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 20, 2018 21:08:15 GMT
And if you get a ton of it how you look doesn't seem terribly important. Well I agree that if you know a guy can boil your blood you are not going to insult him to his face. However, appearances do matter. The Altus were outraged at Maeravris and didn't mind saying so behind her back but she has sufficient power, wealth and important connections (the dwarves) that they are forced to tolerate her presence, particularly as they know what she did to the murderers of her husband. Also I think if someone had a self-inflicted deformity owing to magical malfunction then they would be shunned because of the lack of magical skill that led to their affliction.
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Post by phoray on Dec 20, 2018 21:20:04 GMT
as he was still occupying the form he used to escape Hawke. Snort laugh. Surely he wouldn't have kept Larius' body. That tainted mongoose.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 20, 2018 21:20:09 GMT
And if you get a ton of it how you look doesn't seem terribly important. Well I agree that if you know a guy can boil your blood you are not going to insult him to his face. However, appearances do matter. The Altus were outraged at Maeravris and didn't mind saying so behind her back but she has sufficient power, wealth and important connections (the dwarves) that they are forced to tolerate her presence, particularly as they know what she did to the murderers of her husband. Also I think if someone had a self-inflicted deformity owing to magical malfunction then they would be shunned because of the lack of magical skill that led to their affliction. Doesn't that prove the point that power trumps appearance? The Altus can talk stuff about Mae behind her back, but not in her face. Plus, I'd find it quite unlikely for anybody in Tevinter, regardless of how powerful they are, not to have stuff people would talk about behind their backs. Both in Tevinter as in Orlais, it simply appears that this is something that comes with the territory. And Calpernia didn't seem shocked that she sees someone deformed by magic yet overflowing with power - in fact it's Cory's power that has drawn her to him. And last but not least - clearly, Corypheus either thinks he looks effing majestic (hence his dramatic entrances and theatrics) or exposes his deformities as a proud sign of somebody who did the impossible and visited the Black City.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 20, 2018 22:17:41 GMT
"Lady Florianne! There's a sentient, walking pile of cancer outside!" To be fair, "a sentient, walking pile of cancer" could accurately describe just about anyone in Orlais? We don't know actually at what point he shed his disguise and revealed his true form. Bianca tells us she was fooled because she thought she was dealing with a normal Grey Warden, as he was still occupying the form he used to escape Hawke. So it is entirely possible that other people were recruited initially before he transformed himself into his real appearance. For all we know, Florianne may not even have been aware he had changed. If Corypheus shared the same ability as the Architect to accelerate/reverse the spread of the corruption (which seems possible, given that he promised Aleixus that he could "cure" Felix), then maybe he was able to briefly reverse the corruption in Larius (if he was possessing him), so he'd appear normal in that form?
Perhaps their corruption is far too strong to completely undo (unlike with Fiona), so that's the reason neither the Architect or Corypheus can make themselves appear fully human. They may be able to briefly undo the damage, but their darkspawn nature will always reasserts itself after a while?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 20, 2018 22:34:23 GMT
The only way I can see any of our former elf companions working for Solas is if they are entirely in the dark about his actual goals. It wouldn't make sense for any of them to side with him otherwise, it's not remotely in their interests to do so. It already boggles my mind that any surviving ancient elves would get involved, Solas makes it pretty clear that pre-human Thedas wasn't a great place for anyone except the Evanuris. Although helping Corypheus wasn't in anyone's interest either. I don't even understand how any of his human assistants stifled their vomit long enough to hear him out in the first place. "Lady Florianne! There's a sentient, walking pile of cancer outside!" "Well let him in, you idiot!" Hmmmmmm, right... because IRL, we don't know people so willing to grab power that they ally with vomit-inducing people they may have even riled against in the past when the opposite was politically convenient... It's not any less realistic motivation than desperation or utter disgust with how things are now, that even a walking pile of cancer (*cough*) seems like a good idea, even if for a short time before reason kicks in. Okay... except Corypheus is not a monster as in "Hitler was a monster". He is the literal boogeyman of Thedas. It doesn't make sense that he would even be able to make contact with people like Florianne. He would never be able to sway anyone to his side because they would all run away screaming at the mere sight of him. Which is why he had proxies for dealing with everyone else, although I struggle to believe that Alexius would work with a darkspawn magister either. The darkspawn destroyed his family and ruined his life. His immediate reaction to even seeing Corypheus should be to try and kill him before he can even get a word in.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 20, 2018 22:35:37 GMT
Although helping Corypheus wasn't in anyone's interest either. I don't even understand how any of his human assistants stifled their vomit long enough to hear him out in the first place. We don't know actually at what point he shed his disguise and revealed his true form. Bianca tells us she was fooled because she thought she was dealing with a normal Grey Warden, as he was still occupying the form he used to escape Hawke. So it is entirely possible that other people were recruited initially before he transformed himself into his real appearance. For all we know, Florianne may not even have been aware he had changed. I gueeeeeeeess
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 20, 2018 22:52:29 GMT
Hmmmmmm, right... because IRL, we don't know people so willing to grab power that they ally with vomit-inducing people they may have even riled against in the past when the opposite was politically convenient... It's not any less realistic motivation than desperation or utter disgust with how things are now, that even a walking pile of cancer (*cough*) seems like a good idea, even if for a short time before reason kicks in. Okay... except Corypheus is not a monster as in "Hitler was a monster". He is the literal boogeyman of Thedas. It doesn't make sense that he would even be able to make contact with people like Florianne. He would never be able to sway anyone to his side because they would all run away screaming at the mere sight of him. Which is why he had proxies for dealing with everyone else, although I struggle to believe that Alexius would work with a darkspawn magister either. The darkspawn destroyed his family and ruined his life. His immediate reaction to even seeing Corypheus should be to try and kill him before he can even get a word in. You think that people would never ally even with a boogeyman if they would with someone like Hitler ? Also - why it doesn't make sense? Florianne isn't exactly portrayed as some sort of pious Andrastian or Orlesian patriot. She doesn't even care about her family - she kills her cousin and sets up her brother to potentially take the blame before she is revealed. In fact, after we let her kill the Empress she reveals herself more as a 'some people just want to see the world burn' kind of person. And Alexius isn't allying himself with some regular darkspawn, but somebody wielding strange, powerful magics that may help him save his son. He's desperate, so he's clearly willing to give it a try. Nevermind that Corypheus himself doesn't identify himself as a darkspawn, and given that he's coherent and not linked to hivemind likely helps him build his case.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 20, 2018 23:09:33 GMT
Maybe some of the people allied with Corypheus didn't actually know he was a Darkspawn until he outed himself at Haven, believing until then that the "Elder One" they'd hitch their wagon to was merely an ambitious Tevinter magister making a power-play? By the time they learned what he really was, it was far too late for them to back out, so they had no choice but to stay the course.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 21, 2018 14:54:24 GMT
What about non-Elf Mages joining Solas?, i assume some of the Tranquil, or Circle Mages or even Saarebas would be interested in bringing back Magic.
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Post by phoray on Dec 21, 2018 15:22:50 GMT
Maybe some of the people allied with Corypheus didn't actually know he was a Darkspawn until he outed himself at Haven, believing until then that the "Elder One" they'd hitch their wagon to was merely an ambitious Tevinter magister making a power-play? By the time they learned what he really was, it was far too late for them to back out, so they had no choice but to stay the course. Doesn't Calpernia actually see what he looks like during Crystal talks? One we collect to find weaknesses, but I'm sure it wasn't the first time they'd had a crystal conversation
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 21, 2018 15:28:45 GMT
Maybe some of the people allied with Corypheus didn't actually know he was a Darkspawn until he outed himself at Haven, believing until then that the "Elder One" they'd hitch their wagon to was merely an ambitious Tevinter magister making a power-play? By the time they learned what he really was, it was far too late for them to back out, so they had no choice but to stay the course. Doesn't Calpernia actually see what he looks like during Crystal talks? One we collect to find weaknesses, but I'm sure it wasn't the first time they'd had a crystal conversation. We know that Calpernia saw him as he was. That doesn't mean it was like that for all his minions.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 21, 2018 16:07:00 GMT
What about non-Elf Mages joining Solas?, i assume some of the Tranquil, or Circle Mages or even Saarebas would be interested in bringing back Magic. Well that would depend entirely on his pitch. It is hard to know with tranquil since we know some seem content with their state recalling they only had anxiety when they were mages, so those ones might be more likely to oppose him. With Circle mages and saarebas there seems no evidence of him having reached out to them as he did to the Dalish. Essentially they are all lesser in his eyes than the "true" elves he wants to save. He isn't dropping the Veil to help modern races acquire greater magical ability but to "restore the world of the elves".
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 21, 2018 19:14:38 GMT
Well they would still be interested in the idea of removing the Veil and Solas probably wouldn't mind non-Elf cannon fodder.
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Post by theascendent on Dec 22, 2018 17:02:38 GMT
To Solas an ancinet Elf, having a large amount of magic was the norm for Elves in pre Veil Thedas. That was what defined them as not just a people but the only people, never forget that the word Elvhen literally means the People. Everyone and everything else was either an animal, a spirit or lesser. While Solas might gain a deal of sympathy for the modern 'races' of Thedas, even the post Veil Elves his first priorty is to the 'true' Elves. Everyone and everything else is either an obstacle or a stepping stone, never forget that.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 22, 2018 17:23:34 GMT
To Solas an ancinet Elf, having a large amount of magic was the norm for Elves in pre Veil Thedas. That was what defined them as not just a people but the only people, never forget that the word Elvhen literally means the People. Everyone and everything else was either an animal, a spirit or lesser. While Solas might gain a deal of sympathy for the modern 'races' of Thedas, even the post Veil Elves his first priorty is to the 'true' Elves. Everyone and everything else is either an obstacle or a stepping stone, never forget that. ... Which is funny considering that, after Halamshiral, he slips up and doesn't say that 'elves' or 'elvhen' are his people, but... mages. Notice also that it's not the elves fate he's most visibly passionate about, but the fate of the mages in the South. Also - he does say in Trespasser that 'the Veil had blocked most people's conscious connection to the Fade' and that it was 'like walking in the world of Tranquil'. The suggestion here is that 'everyone and everything else' mayyyyyyyyy in fact not be that far away from what 'his people' are... which also would explain why Sandal is pretty excited about 'everyone being how they were before' during his prophecy episode.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 22, 2018 18:50:33 GMT
Another interesting thing is what about the Elf-blooded possibly joining Solas?
Agur* (rumored) Alistair Eiton* Feynriel Gestan* Kieran (Elf Warden/Alistair) Michel de Chevin Sabina's Brat* Slim Couldry* Thale* * = alive regardless of choice
Slim Couldry is actually in Dragon Age: Deception. (Alistair too i think?) Would be quite comical seeing Sabina's Brat running to Solas and saying "I wanna join!" and there's silence and Solas looking at him with a weird face.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 22, 2018 18:59:05 GMT
... Which is funny considering that, after Halamshiral, he slips up and doesn't say that 'elves' or 'elvhen' are his people, but... mages. Notice also that it's not the elves fate he's most visibly passionate about, but the fate of the mages in the South. He is sympathetic to the plight of the mages but actually the people he most identifies with are spirits. It is why many of us feel that originally the elves were spirits that crossed into the material world and, like Cole, became more material as a result of staying there. The reason he doesn't say the elves are his people after Halamshiral is precisely because he doesn't view modern elves as "true elves". The most telling comment is made at the Temple of Mythal if the Inquisitor refuses Abelas' offer and kills all the sentinels: "After observing you strike down some of the few true elves left for the crime of defending their temple." So the people who need him are not mages but these true elves because only they qualify as "People" in his eyes.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 22, 2018 19:13:47 GMT
Another interesting thing is what about the Elf-blooded possibly joining Solas? Why would any of them want to join him even if he would have them? Michel de Chevin specifically denied his heritage; Alistair isn't even aware of his (not the elven bit anyway); Feynriel had to go to Tevinter for a proper education and it is likely he would gradually lose his elven identity as a result in order to flourish there. OGB Kieran loses the only thing that might make him useful to Flemeth. Non-OGB Kieran doesn't seem to identify particularly with his elven side if his father even was elven but there is a good chance he wasn't. The others you mention are very minor characters, such that I can't remember them or realised they were elf bloodied, but do they really identify that strongly with their elven side? Besides if the other humans would die, so would they. Likewise, if Solas doesn't regard modern elves as true elves, why would he recognise or be interested in people who don't even look like elves simply because they had one modern elf parent? Feynriel, if alive and not tranquil, might be considered useful because of his unusual magical abilities that are close to those of the ancients but non-mages would be of no interest at all.
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Post by phoray on Dec 23, 2018 1:50:15 GMT
What if Solas un tranquiled the Dragon Speaker?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 23, 2018 1:53:22 GMT
What if Solas un tranquiled the Dragon Speaker? I highly doubt that Avexis would support Solas and his plans. Her connection to Cassandra would prevent that.
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