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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 23, 2018 3:59:39 GMT
To go back to the point of Avexis being in DA4, I could see her being involved with the Inquisition. After all it'd be easy to clear her as a spy or not, we know Cassandra is supporting the secret Inquisition, and we know that Cassandra is looking for a safe cure for Tranquility so I could see her maybe finding one between the games and offering it to Avexis. While she was reluctant in the conversation with Giselle, I could see Cassandra being able to appeal to her for it if that's what she wants. Maybe do the trick where they are somewhat exposed to the Fade like Karl and ask her then if she wants to remain one or not.
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Post by phoray on Dec 23, 2018 4:06:31 GMT
To go back to the point of Avexis being in DA4, I could see her being involved with the Inquisition. After all it'd be easy to clear her as a spy or not, we know Cassandra is supporting the secret Inquisition, and we know that Cassandra is looking for a safe cure for Tranquility so I could see her maybe finding one between the games and offering it to Avexis. While she was reluctant in the conversation with Giselle, I could see Cassandra being able to appeal to her for it if that's what she wants. Maybe do the trick where they are somewhat exposed to the Fade like Karl and ask her then if she wants to remain one or not. I guess I just find that kinda boring. She makes a more interesting complex bad guy in a world where 99% of the people are going to default to being anti-solas When we think about people who would follow Solas, we always come down to the fact that anyone following him would have to have been lied to. So we have to find the Samsons of Thedas, the ones who want to see the place burn. But it'd be nice if they wanted to see the place burn and also had a sympathetic back story as I find Samson unsympathetic and repugnant. Someone who's life was screwed either way, so may as well help take everybody out that wronged them.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 23, 2018 4:10:41 GMT
I'm more interested in what Avexis is capable of, and where her ability to comminicate with dragons actually comes from.
But BioWare probably won't touch that. There's a lot of stuff off in the side projects that they either ignored or forgot, like Eiton in Dragon Age Legends.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 23, 2018 4:12:20 GMT
To go back to the point of Avexis being in DA4, I could see her being involved with the Inquisition. After all it'd be easy to clear her as a spy or not, we know Cassandra is supporting the secret Inquisition, and we know that Cassandra is looking for a safe cure for Tranquility so I could see her maybe finding one between the games and offering it to Avexis. While she was reluctant in the conversation with Giselle, I could see Cassandra being able to appeal to her for it if that's what she wants. Maybe do the trick where they are somewhat exposed to the Fade like Karl and ask her then if she wants to remain one or not. I guess I just find that kinda boring. She makes a more interesting complex bad guy in a world where 99% of the people are going to default to being anti-solas When we think about people who would follow Solas, we always come down to the fact that anyone following him would have to have been lied to. So we have to find the Samsons of Thedas, the ones who want to see the place burn. But it'd be nice if they wanted to see the place burn and also had a sympathetic back story as I find Samson unsympathetic and repugnant. Someone who's life was screwed either way, so may as well help take everybody out that wronged them. Well, Solas is the Lord of Tricksters and God of Betrayal so it makes sense he would lie to his followers especially since they are going to die too. It's not like Corypheus where he could be honest about his overall intentions to his followers. I get your point. I just don't want it to be Avexis and don't see it fitting her.
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Post by phoray on Dec 23, 2018 4:13:26 GMT
I'm more interested in what Avexis is capable of, and where her ability to comminicate with dragons actually comes from. But BioWare probably won't touch that. There's a lot of stuff off in the side projects that they either ignored or forgot, like Eiton in Dragon Age Legends. I think there is like a standard way magic manifests but sometimes it doesn't always manifest that way. The Halla Keeper in Origins can actually commune with the Halla (or hope you can if you have that skill) and she is a mage. But they went out of their way to cameo her in DAI even though nobody knows her from the movie except hardcore fans. They could have left her completely out and no one would have blinked. Coincidental?
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Post by phoray on Dec 23, 2018 4:18:07 GMT
I get your point. I just don't want it to be Avexis and don't see it fitting her. Also, and this is a big sticking point: The "good guys" aren't going to un tranquilize her because they (maybe with her uninformed consent) chose to tranqulize her in the first place. to add to that, they lack the skills and the know how. But Powerful People with Big Plans that involve Ancient Magics that know Ancient Magics could want to use her Dragon Speaking ability. Would have the skills and the know how. Maybe the writers could randomly give the good guys the skills and the know how-- but this would be too convenient for my liking considering "oh mer gawd, we know how to end Tranquility but it makes them go suicidal and insane!" was a thing in the Book/DAI. And no one is motivated to reverse tranquility because the Tranquil aren't fighting for their rights at all. SO pretty much I only see her being successfully un tranquilized by the Bad Guy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 23, 2018 4:19:01 GMT
I'm more interested in what Avexis is capable of, and where her ability to comminicate with dragons actually comes from. But BioWare probably won't touch that. There's a lot of stuff off in the side projects that they either ignored or forgot, like Eiton in Dragon Age Legends. I think there is like a standard way magic manifests but sometimes it doesn't always manifest that way. The Halla Keeper in Origins can actually commune with the Halla (or hope you can if you have that skill) and she is a mage. But they went out of their way to cameo her in DAI even though nobody knows her from the movie except hardcore fans. They could have left her completely out and no one would have blinked. Coincidental? I think why they had her in DAI is because Cassandra was one of our companions so they wanted to address what happened to the characters since they knew people would ask about it. Same reason they had Cassandra unfortunately talk about her and Gaylen becoming a thing.
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Post by phoray on Dec 23, 2018 4:20:00 GMT
Cassandra unfortunately talk about her and Gaylen becoming being a thing. why unfortunately?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 23, 2018 4:21:55 GMT
I get your point. I just don't want it to be Avexis and don't see it fitting her. Also, and this is a big sticking point: The "good guys" aren't going to un tranquilize her because they (maybe with her uninformed consent) chose to tranqulize her in the first place. to add to that, they lack the skills and the know how. But Powerful People with Big Plans that involve Ancient Magics that know Ancient Magics could want to use her Dragon Speaking ability. Would have the skills and the know how. Maybe the writers could randomly give the good guys the skills and the know how-- but this would be too convenient for my liking considering "oh mer gawd, we know how to end Tranquility but it makes them go suicidal and insane!" was a thing in the Book/DAI. And no one is motivated to reverse tranquility because the Tranquil aren't fighting for their rights at all. SO pretty much I only see her being successfully un tranquilized by the Bad Guy. I disagree with this. Sure at the beginning of the game this may be the case, but by the end of it we know there are good guys looking into it since that's a big thing Cassandra wants to do, arguably even more than rebuilding the Seekers since she can be talked out of that but I can't recall there being an option to talk her out of looking for a cure.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 23, 2018 4:24:17 GMT
Cassandra unfortunately talk about her and Gaylen becoming being a thing. why unfortunately? Two reasons. 1. I didn't want them to become a couple. It didn't seen like that kind of relationship when I watched the movie and too often the male and female leads in a movie get together in that way so I was hoping this would be a rare case they didn't. 2. When she brings it up. Seriously, they couldn't find a better time for her to talk about her past lover than right after she and the Inquisitor had sex?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 23, 2018 4:27:38 GMT
I'm more interested in what Avexis is capable of, and where her ability to comminicate with dragons actually comes from. But BioWare probably won't touch that. There's a lot of stuff off in the side projects that they either ignored or forgot, like Eiton in Dragon Age Legends. I think there is like a standard way magic manifests but sometimes it doesn't always manifest that way. The Halla Keeper in Origins can actually commune with the Halla (or hope you can if you have that skill) and she is a mage. But they went out of their way to cameo her in DAI even though nobody knows her from the movie except hardcore fans. They could have left her completely out and no one would have blinked. Coincidental? I'm sure it was deliberate, but I doubt it means much going forward. As cameos go, it's a major bummer, not to mention the most boring path to take with a character of her background and abilities. I half suspect they did it so they WOULDN'T have to deal with her in future. Dealing with all this stuff spread out over dozens of different products and media formats is probably annoying. Back when DA Legends was a thing, they didn't even keep track of what the writers of that were putting in, and some of it ended up contradicting things they told us. I WANT to see Avexis back, but I EXPECT to be disappointed. BioWare and I clearly do not agree on what the most interesting aspects of their world are, since they made most of them extinct.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 23, 2018 4:28:04 GMT
2. When she brings it up. Seriously, they couldn't find a better time for her to talk about her past lover than right after she and the Inquisitor had sex? I mean... it's not like she went into detail. She just mentions it in a, "I thought I'd never love again, but then you came along" sort of way.
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Post by phoray on Dec 23, 2018 4:38:02 GMT
I disagree with this. Sure at the beginning of the game this may be the case, but by the end of it we know there are good guys looking into it since that's a big thing Cassandra wants to do, arguably even more than rebuilding the Seekers since she can be talked out of that but I can't recall there being an option to talk her out of looking for a cure. Her epilogue slide is 100% about rebuilding the Seekers and 0% about working on a cure for Tranquility. She doesn't actually care that much about it. I don't know why the Templar side of the equation get lines to express their upsetness about it while none of the mages do. It never hurt the Templars and the Appropriate Decisions to make Mages tranquil for their well being? the non abuse cases? should supposedly never be revisited so the cure is irrelevant. how would they even investigate if someone were made tranquil inappropriately? there's hardly paperwork to revisit, so much was lost, books and records, mages involved, likely dead. I half suspect they did it so they WOULDN'T have to deal with her in future Oh. This is probably very unfortunately true. When she brings it up. Seriously, they couldn't find a better time for her to talk about her past lover than right after she and the Inquisitor had sex? I mean... it's not like she went into detail. She just mentions it in a, "I thought I'd never love again, but then you came along" sort of way ditto. It didn't seem out of place to me. But then, I usually like to bring up discussions about exs prior to sleeping with people. If they trash talk them, it's a sign I shouldn't sleep with them.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Dec 23, 2018 14:43:27 GMT
I love the notion of some elf companions joining Solas. It gives weight to their character development, they xease to be "someone, who once followed Hawke, Warden, Inquisitor". And it will be awesome to see those heroes again, after so much time, and to see how are they doing. I loved cameos in previous games. I can definetly see Merril. Fenris and Vellana joining Solas. Cole is pretty much confirmed to stay beside him, if he is made spirit (though not to help his cause, but to help Solas as a person). I doubt Zevran will join, seems to me he is doing pretty good now, he isn't that much invested into elf liberation movement.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 23, 2018 16:08:04 GMT
I disagree with this. Sure at the beginning of the game this may be the case, but by the end of it we know there are good guys looking into it since that's a big thing Cassandra wants to do, arguably even more than rebuilding the Seekers since she can be talked out of that but I can't recall there being an option to talk her out of looking for a cure. Her epilogue slide is 100% about rebuilding the Seekers and 0% about working on a cure for Tranquility. She doesn't actually care that much about it. So because something is mentioned or shown in the epilogue it means that it's only 100% that and 0% of things unmentioned or obscured by ambiguous wording, like "for a time, the new Seekers remained reclusive, showing no interest in worldly affairs and working to a purpose few outside their order could guess"? I mean, aside from the fact that the rite of Tranquility is a requirement to actually become a Seeker, the epilogues are there to - at best - provide us with few guidelines and hints, and not an exhaustive description of what is happening with characters or going to happen next. Heck, some of these things are even written in form of hardly confirmed rumors, specifically to not give away too much, or were flexible in terms of their application to future story. Well, that's the issue - it's not the Tranquility per se that's the problem, but the whole system surrounding it. I'm fairly sure that if Tranquility was used sparingly and in cases where it was advised (and with the knowledge that it was reversible) nobody really would have such a problem with it - but when Tranquility (just like locking mages in Towers and surrounded all their life by Templars) is used like a hammer and every mage can be seen as a nail... that's where most of the problems lie.
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Post by phoray on Dec 23, 2018 16:12:44 GMT
@midnight_tea
I suppose I just believe the "anti different people" Cassandra who's dream of the Chantry is to keep the status quo... this Cassandra I dislike isn't very likely to spend time on a cure for the Tranquil.
But maybe her character development off screen would lead her to doing something compassionate and selfless for us to read some codex about it come DA4
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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 23, 2018 16:32:46 GMT
The way I see it, nobody can give informed consent to be made Tranquil. It's impossible to know what a life devoid of emotion is actually like. Absolutely. Unless something changed in the recent comics, all of the tranquil that were pulled temporarily back begged to be killed. And even in 2 it was obvious that tranquil can be told, what they are supposed to think, like Helena, who told her lover she's Alrik's now. I hope DA4 doesn't try to paint it as a viable solution. Or at least lets me kill, whoever starts making mages tranquil again.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 23, 2018 16:40:56 GMT
@midnight_tea I suppose I just believe the "anti different people" Cassandra who's dream of the Chantry is to keep the status quo... this Cassandra I dislike isn't very likely to spend time on a cure for the Tranquil. But maybe her character development off screen would lead her to doing something compassionate and selfless for us to read some codex about it come DA4 Cassandra? Anti-different people...? The same one who went against all Chantry and its status-quo by initiating Inquisition with Leliana, and accepted Inquisitor regardless of what race or status they are? Cassandra is probably one of the most likable characters in the series, warts and all, because of her dedication not to status quo, but truth and honesty. Even if it takes her some time, multiple times in the story she has pivoted and adjusted her beliefs when facts and reason went against establishment and tradition. She's also a woman of her word. If she said that she's going to search for a solution and spread the word when she's going to find a working one, we can be fairly certain that she will.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 23, 2018 16:45:28 GMT
The way I see it, nobody can give informed consent to be made Tranquil. It's impossible to know what a life devoid of emotion is actually like. Absolutely. Unless something changed in the recent comics, all of the tranquil that were pulled temporarily back begged to be killed. And even in 2 it was obvious that tranquil can be told, what they are supposed to think, like Helena, who told her lover she's Alrik's now. I hope DA4 doesn't try to paint it as a viable solution. Or at least lets me kill, whoever starts making mages tranquil again. I wouldn't be surprised if we're going to find out that there's a place for Tranquility (it does awake magical powers in Seekers and makes them immune to red lyrium) in some form in the world, but one that is likely far away from the abusive procedure that Chantry uses to keep mages in line.
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Post by phoray on Dec 23, 2018 16:52:27 GMT
assandra? Anti-different people...? The same one who went against all Chantry and its status-quo by initiating Inquisition with Leliana, and accepted Inquisitor regardless of what race or status they are? She advises Inky to get rid of Dorian, Cole, and Sera (the different people). She asks a Dalish Inky to make room for the Maker as if they're an ass for not trying. She tells a romanced Dalish Inky that their difference of religion don't matter, only for her to scoff at the very existence of the Temple of Mythal. "they believe in all this nonesense?" *grunt of disgust.* (I suppose it was okay to ignore a small backwater Dalish religion but if it'd ever be as grand as her own in the past, well, that's just too threatening. What idiots.) She calls out Rainer and Dorian for lying about stuff, and then stutters when she gets caught out lying about things. She thinks it's appropriate to shove Varric around just because she's unhappy about Varric lying. (no boundaries, a bully.) She followed the ORDERS of the previous Divine to start the Inquisition (not her own original idea). Accepted the Inquisitor regardless of race? Regardless of race, she will tell you that making you Inquisitor -was not her idea.- She can't own that and not own that at the same time. Finding more Seekers does what--- no one is harmed by not being a Seeker. She has the Cure to Tranquility in her hand, she decides to sit on it for years (3 years to Trespasser and the events of Trespasser and whatever amount of time the epilogue slides take) My opinion of Cassandra will not change. She's passionate and generally pleasant, which got her to be my fave my first PT. So obviously she had surface charm. But the more I explored her character over multiple play throughs, she is not my favorite, not even close, and there is little you can say to change my mind. It's pretty well made up.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 23, 2018 16:58:25 GMT
To be clear, though, if you mention Dorian as one of the different people for his sexuality, it’s not the reason Cassandra suggests the Inquisitor to get rid of him. It’s about him being from Tevinter. Seekers are useful to fight against abominations and demons, since they’re better equipped then Templars, and without the lyrium addiction.
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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 23, 2018 17:02:34 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if we're going to find out that there's a place for Tranquility (it does awake magical powers in Seekers and makes them immune to red lyrium) in some form in the world, but one that is likely far away from the abusive procedure that Chantry uses to keep mages in line. I seriously can't see that happening without retconning the whole nature of tranquility, at least when we're talking about it as a permanent state and not a momentary thing like with the Seekers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2018 17:23:44 GMT
Yeah, except Tranquil are at peace with everything. They're called The Tranquil, not The Occasionally Tranquil. IRL, it's actually not possible to function without emotions. They're a core component of all decision making. But BioWare has made it clear that modern neurology and psychology are worthless in the world of Thedas, where dreams come from another dimension, and some people can alter the physical world just by wishing hard enough. The implementation and lore on Tranquility is by and large contradictory and nonsensical. You can't have free will if you don't have feelings about yourself or your environment; will implies the desire to act, to want, desire requires emotion. The lore suggests that what a Tranquil truly is, is a body sundered from its spirit - so you've got a soulless shell wandering about unless it's directed by some authority, unable to want, unable to hunger, unable to care. How does this imply any kind of will?
Ultimately, I think the devs Gaider just needed to have a reason for people to interact with Tranquil characters and to be able to care about them, and you can't care about someone who is basically a toaster on legs, except to pity them. Perhaps it would make their portrayal less ridiculous if some other force was directing them, since they have no emotion - like say a Titan, if a Tranquil is exposed to lyrium or red lyrium.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 23, 2018 17:28:40 GMT
assandra? Anti-different people...? The same one who went against all Chantry and its status-quo by initiating Inquisition with Leliana, and accepted Inquisitor regardless of what race or status they are? She advises Inky to get rid of Dorian, Cole, and Sera (the different people). She also guarantees protection for Solas, Inquisitor of any race and has no problem with Iron Bull or his diverse Chargers (which she only has praise for). I think you are confusing her advise to be wary of Dorian, Cole or Sera for something that it isn't - nevermind that in the end, she comes around, going as far as having a gentle friendship with Cole and camaraderie with Dorian. And Sera seems to get on her nerves mostly because she's young and brash, not because she's different - and in this case, Cass also comes around, with Sera also really liking Cassandra back. She didn't just shove Varric because 'she's unhappy', are you kidding? She just found out that he lied about Hawke all this time and thinks that if he was honest with her all the horror and tragedy on the Conclave could be avoided. Even if I don't agree with the fight, if there was one time she was allowed to snap, that was it.
It appears that unlike you I don't hold against teh person every tiny thing they had done or every moment of weakness they have. Cassandra is a person with strong beliefs and sometimes it takes her a bit, or she blunders somewhat, to adjust. But she ultimately adjusts them. She is shown multiple times to grow instead of sticking to some narrow, cemented world-view. She has my endless respect for that. There was no Divine to give the order to start Inquisition at the time. Inquisition was something Justinia prepared as a last resort and it's Cassandra that took initiative and made Inquisition an actual thing. Nevermind that Justinia herself acted against the status quo and she had Cassandra's support, even when the original plan was still on the table.
(also - since when an initiative or willingness to act and take responsibility is only valid when it's an original idea'? What?)
Also, Cassandra is most definitely the one who makes Inquisitor actual Inquisitor. Not just in a sense that she was one of those who empowered them after reaching Skyhold, but it was she together with Leliana that urged the Herald to stay with Inquisition in the first place (nevermind that she's the one who protected them from Roderick's flailing). Er, what? I'm not even sure how to respond to 'no one is harmed by not being a Seeker'? And what Cure to Tranquility she has? What is it - can you show me what the cure is and where is it described? Because I'm fairly sure that at a time of Inquisition all she has is the knowledge that Seekers go through the rite and are Tranquil for a few moments (and that this is where the ritual originated), but that's about all she really knows. Then there's the issue that those Tranquils who regained their emotions are unstable and danger to themselves and others - and there's no viable cure for that so far. She even has a conversation with Solas about that and, well... look how she responds. Cassandra: Solas, I assume you know it's possible to reverse the Rite of Tranquility. Solas: I did hear of what you learned, yes. Cassandra: I know of only one mage thus cured, and... he had no control of his emotions. He was distraught. Cassandra: Do you think that would have passed? If the Tranquil are cured only to end up thus... Solas: They would be a danger to themselves and others, yes. Solas: It is difficult to say. In your Vigil, you were Tranquil for but a moment. They have suffered much longer. Solas: Such control is like a muscle, atrophying without use. Given time it might be restored, but until then... Cassandra: That may be a risk we are obligated to undertake. Solas: They will be grateful... even the ones who do not survive. As you wish. That won't stop me from pointing out where I think things have been misrepresented or misunderstood. It's one thing to dislike a character - it's another to make up things about them, like Cassandra already having a working cure for Tranquility or its side-effects, or has issues with certain characters just because they're 'different', or that because she happens to have issues with a few eccentric Inquisition members means that she somehow has issues with them all.
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 23, 2018 17:33:18 GMT
She calls out Rainer for lying about stuff, She thinks it's appropriate to shove Varric around just because she's unhappy about Varric lying. I know, isn’t it great? I’m glad there was st least one companion that did these things to these characters rather than the reactions the others give.
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