Former Elf Companions Joining Solas (or not) In DA4

midnight tea

I don't like Cassandra. I don't need to defend that opinion, but I gave you reasons anyway. We interpret the character differently and mine is not less right than yours. My opinion remains unchanged. Anyone as pious as her who would pressure a non believer into her belief or scoff at another person's faith is not the kind of hypocrite I want to like.

Edit Add: Oh, you distracted me from the point of the conversation.

Since I believe her to not be a great person for all the listed reasons, I don't see her prioritizing the Cure to Tranquility. You even just argued she wouldn't have a clue where to start, so she shouldn't be blamed for it (mmkay, sure)

Since she, "the good guy", has no clue, my statement that it would most likely be a Bad Guy with The Knowledge to un tranqulize Avexis still stands. Glad you agree. 

You know what?  I think I'm confused and my thinking regarded the Seekers not the Chantry.  That's what she would be reforming.

Yep, exactly. Stress on Limited.

dmc1001
Cassandra's big speech:

"Surely it was never meant to be like this. The Chantry, the Circle of Magi, the Templars. This cannot be what they intended when it all began. The Chantry should provide faith, hope. Instead, it cannot veer from it's course, even when it's in the face of certain death......now my faith demands that I see with better eyes.--- Did you know Varric was Andrastian? yes, he blasphemes, but he believes and his heart is virtuous. But he would never step foot in a Chantry, and it should be the first place the virtuous turn. It needs to change, perhaps I should be the one to change."

List of Changes she gives:

1A. "The Circle of Magi has it's place, but it needs reform. The mages should govern themselves- with our help."

2A. Let the Templars stand, not as the jailors of mages, but as protectors of the innocent."

3A. We must be vigilant, but we must also be compassionate to all races, human or no."

1B. Notice that The mages still won't govern themselves, they need "help"

2B. The Templars have been unanimously seen as protectors of the innocent, except in the extreme situations of how bad things got in DA2. And it wasn't so much the issue of the Templars being bad to mages or not protectors that riled people, it was that Meredith had usurped their usual standard of government, which was to have a Viscount and had refused to let the nobles vote in a new one. Similar to what Loghain was trying to pull in Fereldan. In DAI, SOME Templars went rogue and started rampantly killing people because they had shovels and valuable-- they weren't templars any more, they were bandits still dressed as Templars. And the rest of the Templars got holed up by an Envy Demon, turned into red templars, and began slave operations. But these are unique (DA2) and new (DAI) problems. For most of their existence, being a Templar was a job most aspired to for one reason or another.

3B. I don't recall a particular moment where the Chantry was racist against elves or dwarves or Qunari. Like, going out of their way to restrict aid of or anything. (maybe they turned a blind eye to the rampant rape and murder, but that's multiple levels of LEadership failing here, not just the Chantry.) So I don't know what issue she is even bringing up here. She certainly doesn't mean elves, dwarves, or Qunari can start serving in the chantry. That's Lel's sctick. So this offering is... "we should be nicer to them. I don't know what nicer means, but believe me, we'll be nicer." And what is it exactly about the preface, "we must be vigilant" in relation to being compassionate to non humans? Was this a confused sentence structure, or is she actually implying Non humans have been ignored/abused, whatever word you want to use, because they were untrustworthy and needed too much watching?

So then the Inky asks, "Why not Leliana?"

She replies (paraphrase) that she and Lel remember Justinia differently. That the Clerics will only accept gentle pushing when it comes to reform. And she's that gentle, not too big of a splash reformer that's needed not to upset the established Chantry Clerics that Thedas needs. It would be "too much chaos" to let Leliana be Divine. And who wants that.



Add to that that's she's implied to be ineffective in advance by Viv and it holds up in the epi slides and there ya have it. Her big thing is (my interpretation) "We'll co govern towers with the mages we lock in there. We'll make Templars Great Again. And we'll be nicer to non humans. And I'll be less chaotic than Leliana."

Really wowing people there, Cass.

All direct quotes taken from this youtube video of game content: Divine Cassandra

And to bring it back on topic... I don't think such a Status Quo person would really devote themselves to researching the end of Tranquility.  She would probably try to make it harder to do in the first place, but everyone made Tranquil would likely stay that way. 

And if anyone has an interest in reversing Avexis' tranquility it would be their interest in her ability to speak and control dragons.  And she would be interesting as our sympathetic villain sub commander. and an interesting boss fight.

The mysterious gods of evil are more like Satan.

I was talking about it: bsn.boards.net/thread/16471/

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Void#Elven_beliefs

Incremental reform is still reform. The only thing that is 'limited' in Cassandra's approach is that change under her guidance is more gradual compared to sudden, radical change proposed by Leliana.

Cassandra is clearly slotted as 'pragmatic reformer' in contrast to Leliana the 'passionate revolutionary' or Vivienne - the ACTUAL 'status quo warrior'. And we know on whose side Cass is when either Leli of Viv are the Divine - she has disagreements with Leliana, but they respect one another and work well together towards changing Chantry for the better, while she leaves Vivienne's Exalted Council disgusted with her actions.

I think a lot would depend on whether Morrigan romanced the Warden and/or had Kieran. If her lover and child were going to be endangered by Solas' plans then she would oppose him. If she only had herself to think about, I'm not sure. She could slip through an eluvian to avoid the worst of it and thus survive (could do this with Warden and Kieran too I suppose). Back in DAO she was very much about survival of the fittest and didn't seem that bothered about the fate of anyone else provided her needs were met. Of course, if she thought she was opposing Flemeth's plans then she might fight Solas just on principle.

The thing is, though, Solas didn't seem to like her much in DAI and definitely didn't want her drinking from the Well, so I don't think he would recruit her so much as attempt to destroy her if she did, because of how she might try and use the knowledge against him. Of course, if absorbing Mythal allows him to control the Drinker, then she wouldn't have any option but to join him if he ordered it.

Her changes aren't gradual, they are non existent and ambiguous. I gave video and a transcript of what she literally said.

That would be really sad if that happened. Merrill's heart is in the right place, but she's stubborn. I went the rival route with her in DA2 and wow she gives as good as she gets!

I feel I should add Sandal too, since he seems to have the biggest connection to everything, but the least involvement, which makes me think he might have a far more important role in the future regarding Solas and the Titans.

I keep thinking Sandal is like Avallac'h in TW3. His true Elven form is trapped in a Dwarven body, or he has one of the Old/Eleven God's souls in him.