saandrig
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Post by saandrig on Oct 9, 2020 7:36:54 GMT
Very good. Significant uplift in the CPU segment, the unnamed stock navi seems to be on par with stock 3080 in the same games. I assume AIB navi models will perform similar to AIB ampere models. Price and software suites will determine this outcome. I 100% expect AMD's models to be whisked from existence on launch and for several months since that, just like nvidia. The upcoming AMD CPU prices are higher than Intel as expected. Where are the AMD fanboys to keep telling me "AMD cares for us". I am happy to see the CPU single core performance is getting better, although I will wait for further benchmarks. I guess my 8086k is good for another 3 years at least.
I won't get hyped for the Navi yet. AMD has shown big performance before and after independent benchmarks it all went crashing down. We need to see the noise and heat. Also - the software features. Nvidia is killing it with DLSS and has a heavy focus on RTX. If AMD doesn't have an answer to that, even equal rasterization performance to 3080 won't cut it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 9, 2020 11:49:32 GMT
The upcoming AMD CPU prices are higher than Intel as expected. Where are the AMD fanboys to keep telling me "AMD cares for us" The $50 price hike alongside the omission of the 5700x is a low blow, on AMD's part. But I really like their products, I do believe they are some of the best price/performance parts out there. I don't know if Intel is planning to lower prices for their products, going forward, which is what I want from Intel, to keep themselves competitive in the market. We need two companies constantly undercutting each other, either in the CPU or GPU sector, for the consumers to benefit. I have no problem getting an Intel CPU, I just think that, up until now, their products have been overpriced and especially with their many years of 4c/8t processors, have held the market back considerably. I still haven't bought a nvidia GPU since 2004, though. The FX 5000 series is something that I've held a grudge against for a very long time. I won't get hyped for the Navi yet. AMD has shown big performance before and after independent benchmarks it all went crashing down. We need to see the noise and heat. Also - the software features. Nvidia is killing it with DLSS and has a heavy focus on RTX. If AMD doesn't have an answer to that, even equal rasterization performance to 3080 won't cut it. Apparently, AMD have their own suite of a DirectML supersampling technique that it is more accurate than DLSS. It is texture based, so it won't look as good as nvidia's but it will have less artifacts during motion, than DLSS does. They will also have ray tracing and even offer hardware support for nvidia's RTX, although without the proprietary RT cores. I am at the very least curious, about how it will look.
Edit: AMD's Scott Heckinman says the yuge Navi we saw, wasn't even his final form. So it looks like we might have seen the 6800XT, not the 6900XT or the rumoured 6900XTX. Big words, Scott Heckinman, I'd like to see them backed up.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Oct 9, 2020 13:27:16 GMT
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eternalambiguity
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Post by eternalambiguity on Oct 9, 2020 13:53:31 GMT
Nice to see they're beating Intel, but I'd love to see benches for the more affordable 5000 CPUs vs 3000 (or at least the 700 and 800s). For gaming their 5900X vs 3900X wasn't all that significant in my eyes because I'll be at 1440p with higher graphics settings, so likely GPU limited in most games. Their bench settings were (as they always are, everywhere) designed to exaggerate CPU effect on overall performance.
I'm not super well informed on the more nuanced details of CPU like how IPC works but the base clocks seem basically the same between the two generations, so clearly there's more going on than I know about.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 9, 2020 14:33:38 GMT
I'm not super well informed on the more nuanced details of CPU like how IPC works but the base clocks seem basically the same between the two generations, so clearly there's more going on than I know about. The most important change is the change in topology and unified cache. With Zen 2, each chiplet consisted of 2x4 core circuits, which suffered from certain latency problems, as the two circuits tried to communicate with each other. Now, each chiplet has a unified 8 core design, with full access to the unified 72MB cache, compared to the previous dedicated 36MB per 4 core circuit cache. This allows for more information stored to the local memory, compensating for prefetching from the memory, lowering latency and allowing for more operations per clock, due to the unified core design. It's exciting stuff, really.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Oct 9, 2020 14:45:18 GMT
I'm not super well informed on the more nuanced details of CPU like how IPC works but the base clocks seem basically the same between the two generations, so clearly there's more going on than I know about. The most important change is the change in topology and unified cache. With Zen 2, each chiplet consisted of 2x4 core circuits, which suffered from certain latency problems, as the two circuits tried to communicate with each other. Now, each chiplet has a unified 8 core design, with full access to the unified 72MB cache, compared to the previous dedicated 36MB per 4 core circuit cache. This allows for more information stored to the local memory, compensating for prefetching from the memory, lowering latency and allowing for more operations per clock, due to the unified core design. It's exciting stuff, really. I saw that the IPC was unified somehow, but I don't know how that relates to actual code. Does it mean that my multithreaded code can more easily access and modify a shared resource? That seems significant.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 9, 2020 15:04:29 GMT
Does it mean that my multithreaded code can more easily access and modify a shared resource? That seems significant. That's more to do with parallelization. Making your code scale better across more cores. This causes your CPU to run more workloads of your code independently of other workloads in your code. From there, the parallelization of your code produces results faster, thanks to more cores working on them. However, what the architecture improvement of Zen 3 introduces is that all the data to your code and the information that it needs, are stored in greater capacity, closer to the CPU, rather in the system's DRAM, but it also affords faster intercommunication between cores, instead of traveling between core complexes. This allows for better scheduling and less time for the individual cores spent travelling, trying to find part of the information it needs and faster communication between cores, when that information is ready, which is then stored locally, at a much larger capacity and available for any of the 8 cores of the core complex, should any of them need it. tl;dr yes, the new architecture allows the CPU to handle parallel workloads more efficiently, as those workloads scale to greater than 4 core complexes.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Oct 9, 2020 15:12:26 GMT
Does it mean that my multithreaded code can more easily access and modify a shared resource? That seems significant. That's more to do with parallelization. Making your code scale better across more cores. This causes your CPU to run more workloads of your code independently of other workloads in your code. From there, the parallelization of your code produces results faster, thanks to more cores working on them. However, what the architecture improvement of Zen 3 introduces is that all the data to your code and the information that it needs, are stored in greater capacity, closer to the CPU, rather in the system's DRAM, but it also affords faster intercommunication between cores, instead of traveling between core complexes. This allows for better scheduling and less time for the individual cores spent travelling, trying to find part of the information it needs and faster communication between cores, when that information is ready, which is then stored locally, at a much larger capacity and available for any of the 8 cores of the core complex, should any of them need it. tl;dr yes, the new architecture allows the CPU to handle parallel workloads more efficiently, as those workloads scale to greater than 4 core complexes. What you describe for Zen 3 sounds like what I was trying to describe in my example. Over the past week I was working on something that had 10,000,000 different entities all acting independently, but referencing and changing a shared resource. It sounds like this would help that situation.
I don't know that it's going to be all that useful for gaming though, considering that most of what's going on there is rendering, which usually takes place on the GPU.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 9, 2020 15:55:26 GMT
I don't know that it's going to be all that useful for gaming though, considering that most of what's going on there is rendering, which usually takes place on the GPU. While it's true that the GPU does the rendering, the GPU does not work independently entirely, from the CPU, as it makes a lot of draw calls to it and the CPU itself handles various other tasks, in game related workloads. Some games, mostly strategy games, are more CPU intensive than GPU, with the bottleneck moving to the GPU more, as the resolution and the graphical fidelity increases, but yes, a better CPU will bottleneck the GPU less, allowing for more frames per second. Evidently, going from a FX-8320 to a 2600X, my 280X saw a 20% increase in performance, in 1080p, as I was being bottlenecked by the CPU. Going from the 3700X to the 5800X, for example, may not be a 20% increase in gaming workloads, across the board, as that has a lot more to factor in than just IPC, but also how the game engine was built and how the CPU handles that engine. The FarCry engine, Dunia 2, is notoriously bad at working with Ryzen, for example, which is why in Zen 3 we see the more impressive 22% uplift from the 3900X to the 5900X. So the previously worse performing Ryzen games stand to gain the most, as the unified cache memory and single 8 core complex come closer to the ringbus topology of the Intel Core CPU, achieving greater parity with Intel Core favoured titles. Couple that with the higher single core IPC of Zen 3 and it really makes a difference to the competition.
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 9, 2020 16:07:54 GMT
The Outer Worlds @outerworldsThe Board is excited to inform you that job openings for employees through Steam will be opening on Oct 23! Your shift begins in 2 weeks, spacers, so start your preparations today! RocketSparkles store.steampowered.com/app/578650/The_Outer_Worlds/
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Post by saandrig on Oct 10, 2020 7:47:47 GMT
Evidently, going from a FX-8320 to a 2600X, my 280X saw a 20% increase in performance, in 1080p, as I was being bottlenecked by the CPU. Former FX-8320 gang unite! 😎 When I changed to 8086k, some areas in DAI, like Redcliffe, went from 30 FPS to 90 FPS at 1440p. Won't even mention how much better AC Origins ran.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 10, 2020 10:57:41 GMT
Evidently, going from a FX-8320 to a 2600X, my 280X saw a 20% increase in performance, in 1080p, as I was being bottlenecked by the CPU. Former FX-8320 gang unite! 😎 When I changed to 8086k, some areas in DAI, like Redcliffe, went from 30 FPS to 90 FPS at 1440p. Won't even mention how much better AC Origins ran. I had hte FX8350 though for my nwe PC I'm gladI'm back with Intel
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Oct 12, 2020 12:54:10 GMT
According to Larian majority of users chose white man in BG3, that's of course a problem. archive.vn/oSQ1AMedia: we need more diverse protagonists so people can play as themselves in-game! *majority of players are white man so they choose white man* Also media: Noo! you can't do that!, you shouldn't just play as yourself! White man bad.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 12, 2020 13:13:59 GMT
Having more opportunities to play female as a woman hasn't really made games better. It's still 99% the same game if there's a sex option. So yes, include more choices for your generic action game protagonist. Doesn't change the quality of the game though. It's just cosmetic most of the time. I'll play any protagonist, male/female/disgusting alien, if the story/gameplay sounds interesting. The whole self insert thing is stupid to me. So yes, white man is bad because reasons.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Oct 12, 2020 14:15:46 GMT
Having more opportunities to play female as a woman hasn't really made games better. I don't know that it makes games 'better', but when it comes to RPGs it definitely makes me enjoy games more. I don't really like RPGs where I can't make my own character, and in order to do that I need to be able to select their gender and name them. If I'm going to play a game with a fixed protagonist I'll go and play some other genre.
(And I don't think Larian were seriously objecting to making white dudes, more to the fact that people are apparently making the blandest, most generic Extruded Protagonist Product available if that average is anything to go by. Sooooooo boring. Make him a redhead! Give him a beard! Literally any distinguishing features!)
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 12, 2020 14:53:50 GMT
Having more opportunities to play female as a woman hasn't really made games better. It's still 99% the same game if there's a sex option. So yes, include more choices for your generic action game protagonist. Doesn't change the quality of the game though. It's just cosmetic most of the time. I'll play any protagonist, male/female/disgusting alien, if the story/gameplay sounds interesting. The whole self insert thing is stupid to me. So yes, white man is bad because reasons. Having more customization options is objectively superior to having fewer to none at all, at the very least. If, say, a hypothetical Mass Effect remake were ever developed, the lack of the option for FemShep would make it a demonstrably lesser product than its predecessor. Cosmetic options shouldn’t be discounted as meaningless fluff content. Whether or not an individual cares doesn’t change the value it adds overall. I don’t think it should be assumed that it’s solely about self insertion either. Not everyone who wants more customization options want to appear as themselves in it either. It’s no different than someone wanting their car in a specific paint scheme. If you hate green, you might not want to be forced to drive a green car if you can afford to avoid it.
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Post by Gileadan on Oct 12, 2020 15:00:01 GMT
Hahaha. Larian is hilarious. What good are demon horns and flaming red eyes on a character if he talks the same stuff as white Joe McGenericDude when it comes to dialogue? The paint job alone doesn't make a character more interesting, the personality does. And that is up to Larian, by offering appropriate dialogue choices that allows players to roleplay an interesting personality.
And I for one totally like to start the game as no one special, but maybe become someone special during the story. I'm fine with starting as Private A**hole and maybe end up as Sergeant A**hole just before the credits roll.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 12, 2020 15:16:48 GMT
Hahaha. Larian is hilarious. What good are demon horns and flaming red eyes on a character if he talks the same stuff as white Joe McGenericDude when it comes to dialogue? Which is something I really enjoyed about Pillars of Eternity, as race and background played a role oftentimes in what your character said and to who. Regardless of how I feel about Pillars itself. It did it a lot better than the purely cosmetic feel of the race choices in Inquisition.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 12, 2020 16:35:49 GMT
Having more opportunities to play female as a woman hasn't really made games better. It's still 99% the same game if there's a sex option. So yes, include more choices for your generic action game protagonist. Doesn't change the quality of the game though. It's just cosmetic most of the time. I'll play any protagonist, male/female/disgusting alien, if the story/gameplay sounds interesting. The whole self insert thing is stupid to me. So yes, white man is bad because reasons. Having more customization options is objectively superior to having fewer to none at all, at the very least. If, say, a hypothetical Mass Effect remake were ever developed, the lack of the option for FemShep would make it a demonstrably lesser product than its predecessor. Cosmetic options shouldn’t be discounted as meaningless fluff content. Whether or not an individual cares doesn’t change the value it adds overall. I don’t think it should be assumed that it’s solely about self insertion either. Not everyone who wants more customization options want to appear as themselves in it either. It’s no different than someone wanting their car in a specific paint scheme. If you hate green, you might not want to be forced to drive a green car if you can afford to avoid it. As I said, gender options are fine. I just find the argument stupid that a game cannot be enjoyed unless the protagonist matches the player's own gender. Which is then used to vilify the white male protagonist as a form of oppression. Even the idea that the white male protagonist is boring is sexist. Maybe the writing is boring but that has nothing to do with sex/skin color. Playing a POC or a woman or a disabled person isn't inherently more interesting unless the game is built around some kind new angle derived from the protagonist's PHYSICAL attributes. Even that may not make the character's personality more interesting. Now of course if you're playing an RPG like Skyrim, then the different paint jobs matter a great deal for personal RP. I don't discount that. I love the freedom myself. In the vast majority of cases however, the protagonist is often kind of interchangeable. Like in Farcry. Doesn't add anything to the game. Nice to have but completely meaningless at the same time. Whether or not that franchise has a gender option should not impact anybody's purchase decision.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 12, 2020 16:57:43 GMT
Hahaha. Larian is hilarious. What good are demon horns and flaming red eyes on a character if he talks the same stuff as white Joe McGenericDude when it comes to dialogue? The paint job alone doesn't make a character more interesting, the personality does. And that is up to Larian, by offering appropriate dialogue choices that allows players to roleplay an interesting personality. And I for one totally like to start the game as no one special, but maybe become someone special during the story. I'm fine with starting as Private A**hole and maybe end up as Sergeant A**hole just before the credits roll. That is how I feel about racial selection as well. If the game itself doesn't react to the character I am still playing a human in a rubber suit regardless of the game and just having one or two instances where it shows through doesn't give it enough substance for me. Its why I thought the original plan for Inquisition was a better one where it was all humans, but different upbringings so everyone treating a human protagonist the same makes sense, but there could be areas where it did make a difference. It was always what bugged me about Dragon Age: Origins as well yes the introduction was different based on what race you picked for your character, but beyond that it was nothing. Things like the human merchants dealing with Elves the same as Humans always bugged me especially when you saw so much racism against the elves at the same time.
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N3
I am alive.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Oct 12, 2020 17:03:38 GMT
Hahaha. Larian is hilarious. What good are demon horns and flaming red eyes on a character if he talks the same stuff as white Joe McGenericDude when it comes to dialogue? Which is something I really enjoyed about Pillars of Eternity, as race and background played a role oftentimes in what your character said and to who. Regardless of how I feel about Pillars itself. It did it a lot better than the purely cosmetic feel of the race choices in Inquisition. You say that, but I was just going to point out how different the experience is between a female mage elf who romances Solas and a male human rogue.
The ability to have the choice, and to discuss its relevance to the world (arguing with Solas or Sera about oppression for example) is great. As I said, gender options are fine. I just find the argument stupid that a game cannot be enjoyed unless the protagonist matches the player's own gender. Which is then used to vilify the white male protagonist as a form of oppression. No one worth listening to cares about that strawman, not sure why you're presenting it. It's not relevant to this situation. Larian's post says "demon eyes, horns, and even tails" and nothing at all about gender.
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Post by Syv on Oct 12, 2020 17:04:22 GMT
According to Larian majority of users chose white man in BG3, that's of course a problem. archive.vn/oSQ1AMedia: we need more diverse protagonists so people can play as themselves in-game! *majority of players are white man so they choose white man* Also media: Noo! you can't do that!, you shouldn't just play as yourself! White man bad. ...Larian said no such thing.... It's about creativity. Nothing to do with your political mindset. Not everything is about politics.. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion " white man is bad...." for Larian. Before reading that topic, I thought the global result showed and what they stated while joking was hilarious, but here you are, falling into drama. The result is indeed very boring, whether you like it or not. I'm seeing that dude, there is literally nothing original about him, it's generic as fuck O_o. You have a normal looking human, not even original in any way, while they gave the opportunity to players to create ton of diverse creatures, races, etc etc... I would have worked on the feature that is the character creator, and made sur to offer lot of choices to the players, I'm pretty sure as a dev I would have been very excited seeing how creative could be the players.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 12, 2020 17:32:26 GMT
You say that, but I was just going to point out how different the experience is between a female mage elf who romances Solas and a male human rogue. Well, that's a very gated, very specific scenario. Which is good. Choice and consequence, you know, but Pillars had content like that sprinkled all around. By the way, Human Male Rogue here, for my first and only DA:I playthrough, that I didn't even finish. The ability to have the choice, and to discuss its relevance to the world (arguing with Solas or Sera about oppression for example) is great. From my experience, the content is a lot less in Inquisition and very specific in use case. I'm sure Bioware did the best they could, but like I said, in comparison, the choice feels more cosmetic than meaningful content. To me.
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