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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 1, 2020 6:59:35 GMT
That isn't true though. Take a good look at what Activision Blizzard releases and how many of those have lootboxes, its just because people want to ignore what they are doing. Destiny, Call of Duty, Crash Bandicoot, Overwatch, and Sekiro (I never played it, but there were claims of lootboxes). Destiny is out of Activision and doesn't even have loot boxes anymore. Crash, CoD and Overwatch did have lootboxes, Crash's implementation being especially ludicrous, where you couldn't even compete, unless you bought lootboxes. Shekiro, as far as I've seen, doesn't have lootboxes. That is pretty much their entire release schedule under Activision and then add in Blizzard with Hearthstone and Overwatch with Blizzard. So from what I can see if the games that don't have lootboxes are World of Warcraft which is a $15 sub and microtransactions and Diablo 3. I mean, under that rule, we should also include SW:ToR. And Diablo 3's RM Auction House was a total failure. Not to dismiss it, but everyone saw how terrible it was, including Blizzard, who removed it. After Mass Effect: Andromeda it seems the only EA titles that have anything that can be considered lootboxes is FIFA and Madden And UFC and NFS. NBA Live doesn't, by the grace of EA not releasing one, since 2018. I assume NHL also does, as well. I don't know about the hockey games, but I don't expect EA to have not implemented lootboxes in them. So EA has, for around the past 10 years, released at least 4 games, per year, that contain lootboxes. That's insane. Activision releases maybe 2? And 2K has NBA and GTA and RDR online? I don't know what other 2K games have MTX in them. Edit: not to mention Activision added lootboxes to Crash Team Racing post release and I think at least planned on added them to a remastered Crash game as well. I thought we were talking about CTR above, already.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 1, 2020 11:46:52 GMT
After Mass Effect: Andromeda it seems the only EA titles that have anything that can be considered lootboxes is FIFA and Madden And UFC and NFS. NBA Live doesn't, by the grace of EA not releasing one, since 2018. I assume NHL also does, as well. I don't know about the hockey games, but I don't expect EA to have not implemented lootboxes in them. So EA has, for around the past 10 years, released at least 4 games, per year, that contain lootboxes. That's insane. Activision releases maybe 2? And 2K has NBA and GTA and RDR online? I don't know what other 2K games have MTX in them. I just think its giving Activision a free pass because you are looking just as the number of releases per year instead of percentage of games released. EA releases more game with lootboxes sure, but the majority of games under Activision's publishing has them as well. It shows that both publishers are using what games they release to get more money out of consumers and just because you release less games per year shouldn't be a pass for the spotlight. EDIT: After Mass Effect: Andromeda it seems the only EA titles that have anything that can be considered lootboxes is FIFA and Madden And UFC and NFS. NBA Live doesn't, by the grace of EA not releasing one, since 2018. I assume NHL also does, as well. I don't know about the hockey games, but I don't expect EA to have not implemented lootboxes in them. So EA has, for around the past 10 years, released at least 4 games, per year, that contain lootboxes. That's insane. Activision releases maybe 2? And 2K has NBA and GTA and RDR online? I don't know what other 2K games have MTX in them. Well if you don't think Destiny should be included neither should UFC then, for they did have them in the first games, but with UFC 4 they put advertisements moronically post release.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 1, 2020 12:02:00 GMT
This model was due for serious diminishing returns to the point of eventually being unsustainable, but I agree that EA is far from the only guilty party here. There’s a case to even establish that Activision and 2K are actually *worse*. In recent years, they’ve pulled more shitty things in their game systems than EA, but somehow EA always gets the most blame, even though things like Overwatch and NBA2K were likely far bigger influences. I think it boils down to EA spreading lootboxes across far more titles that any other publisher. I mean, there was Madden, FIFA, NBA LIVE, UFC, NFS, ME3, DA:I, DS3 and then there was the attempt at Battlefront 2 that just blew it all to hell. I mean, how many games do you need to milk people out of their money with? It's ridiculous. There's mobile games with higher development costs that make not even half what FIFA makes and are free to play. It's just absurd at this point. So yeah, even if EA isn't the greatest offender, they are the most frequent offender. I feel like at this point, EA being considered the worst is more dogmatic than reality. It’s when companies like EA start making goofy euphemisms that insult our intelligence, like “surprise mechanics” really makes it easy to hate them. Companies like Activision and Take-Two continuously pull this sort of thing to this day and don’t really seem to be stopping for breath, while EA, even as bad as they are, occasionally relent and do better in the wake of serious backlash. Star Wars being a particularly high profile offense is likely what really started it, which was probably a boon for other greedy entities to be worse low-key. Heck, why is there an Overwatch 2 coming again? Leave it to Activision to sell what’s essentially a glorified DLC as a full-fledged sequel title. Then there’s Take-Two Interactive, which is offering up a basketball slot machine with the added gall of a next-gen price hike, selling the lie that it’s to account for the higher def assets, even though the aggressive MTX model should really be recouping these supposed added costs anyway.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 1, 2020 15:39:49 GMT
I just think its giving Activision a free pass I feel like at this point, EA being considered the worst is more dogmatic than reality. No, not at all. I said that I would also like to see ActiVision and 2K being sanctioned for the same practices, alongside EA. I just think EA is more aggressive, with their multiple titles, per year, trying to squeeze everything, out of each fanbase, in the same way that ActiVision only accomplishes through CoD and 2K through NBA. And maybe ActiVision has worse monetization practices per title, than EA or 2K, but I wouldn't know. I don't touch these games, for that exact reason. So maybe it is lack of information as to the specifics? I mean, shit, I'm not going to buy a game, just to check out how bad their MTX store is.
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Post by Hawke on Nov 1, 2020 16:22:05 GMT
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 1, 2020 17:20:23 GMT
I don't care which publisher has worse MTX, I'm just happy one of them is losing money here. EA can afford it, I'm sure.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 1, 2020 21:13:55 GMT
Heck, why is there an Overwatch 2 coming again? Leave it to Activision to sell what’s essentially a glorified DLC as a full-fledged sequel title. I’d say an entire story campaign that will be continually added to, half a dozen new characters with release plus more later, updated designs for characters, new game modes and maps are more than just a glorified DLC. Otherwise Mass Effect 2 and 3 are just glorified DLCs of Mass Effect 1.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 1, 2020 23:54:32 GMT
Heck, why is there an Overwatch 2 coming again? Leave it to Activision to sell what’s essentially a glorified DLC as a full-fledged sequel title. I’d say an entire story campaign that will be continually added to, half a dozen new characters with release plus more later, updated designs for characters, new game modes and maps are more than just a glorified DLC. Otherwise Mass Effect 2 and 3 are just glorified DLCs of Mass Effect 1. “Continually added to”, in other words, drip-fed content, as live service games are wont to provide, except in this case, this “sequel” will have bits and pieces cherry-picked to add retroactively to the previous title. Remember, heroes and maps from O2 will also be in O1, so there will be a fair amount of actual content overlap; just there will be a paywall to access the rest of it, only it’s being sold as a standalone title rather than a simple expansion. Undoubtedly, Activision/Blizzard really wanted to get the most buck for the bang and fill that new release slot. Let’s not kid ourselves and consider this akin to the likes of singleplayer games like Mass Effect, where we get hours and hours of front-loaded content right off the bat.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 2, 2020 0:08:38 GMT
I’d say an entire story campaign that will be continually added to, half a dozen new characters with release plus more later, updated designs for characters, new game modes and maps are more than just a glorified DLC. Otherwise Mass Effect 2 and 3 are just glorified DLCs of Mass Effect 1. “Continually added to”, in other words, drip-fed content, as live service games are wont to provide, except in this case, this “sequel” will have bits and pieces cherry-picked to add retroactively to the previous title. Remember, heroes and maps from O2 will also be in O1, so there will be a fair amount of actual content overlap; just there will be a paywall to access the rest of it, only it’s being sold as a standalone title rather than a simple expansion. Undoubtedly, Activision/Blizzard really wanted to get the most buck for the bang and fill that new release slot. Let’s not kid ourselves and consider this akin to the likes of singleplayer games like Mass Effect, where we get hours and hours of front-loaded content right off the bat. Depends how long the story mode is. If it is 20 hours, that’s definitely more than just an expansion. Regardless, that’s one I’ll gladly pay for since that’s been the top thing I’ve wanted for years with that game.
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eternalambiguity
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Post by eternalambiguity on Nov 2, 2020 23:31:37 GMT
Ubi includes MTX yes but it's mostly "time saver" type stuff for their single-player games. Not sure about their multi-player games.
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Post by dazk on Nov 3, 2020 0:45:25 GMT
AC Odyssey had MTX if you mean paying for things like maps for certain loot, XP boosters etc.
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Post by Hawke on Nov 3, 2020 1:02:26 GMT
Ubi includes MTX yes but it's mostly "time saver" type stuff for their single-player games. Not sure about their multi-player games. It seems to be a critical design failure if these "time savers" are needed in the first place. There are also unique skins for the playable characters, which while typical, is undesirable as well.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Nov 3, 2020 2:10:56 GMT
Ubi includes MTX yes but it's mostly "time saver" type stuff for their single-player games. Not sure about their multi-player games. It seems to be a critical design failure if these "time savers" are needed in the first place. There are also unique skins for the playable characters, which while typical, is undesirable as well. They aren't needed. Odyssey has like 60 hours of unique content, not counting the DLC. They're for players who are low on time (and sense) and big on money.
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Post by Hawke on Nov 3, 2020 4:00:18 GMT
www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/11/02/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-will-lose-its-online-features"Certain features for the Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor will no longer be available beginning Dec. 31, 2020. Affected Features: • The Nemesis Forge feature will no longer be available. Therefore, players will no longer be able to transfer their in-game Nemeses from Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor to Middle-earth: Shadow of War. • Vendetta missions and Leaderboards will no longer be available. • WBPlay will no longer be available, but the epic runes "Orc Hunter" and "Gravewalker" will automatically be awarded to all players". Because it was absolutely impossible to allow transferring favourite Nemeses offline (like Baldur's Gate allowed to transfer the PC between BG1 and BG2) or to generate Vendetta missions, switching the Steam friend for the player themself or a random orc. /s --- eternalambiguity I may derail the discussion, if I continue. Could we agree to disagree or create a separate discussion specifically about MTX and how it affects gameplay and design?
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Post by eternalambiguity on Nov 3, 2020 6:27:33 GMT
Nothing I posted was an opinion, but sure.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Nov 3, 2020 13:06:15 GMT
Does that mean they're discontinuing the WBPlay, or it's just for Shadow of Mordor?
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What will they call you when this is over?
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 3, 2020 17:02:56 GMT
Ubi includes MTX yes but it's mostly "time saver" type stuff for their single-player games. Not sure about their multi-player games. Cancerous shit. If a game needs time savers you can be sure the grind was put there deliberately to sell cheats for cash.
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I am alive.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Nov 3, 2020 18:52:55 GMT
Ubi includes MTX yes but it's mostly "time saver" type stuff for their single-player games. Not sure about their multi-player games. Cancerous shit. If a game needs time savers you can be sure the grind was put there deliberately to sell cheats for cash. The games do not "need" MTX. Odyssey has 60 hours of voiced quests with dialogue choices and lots of "story" decisions--with the DLC there's well over 100 hours of solid game there. Origins was much the same (I didn't play the DLC so can't speak to that). People paying to skip that are dumb (not vulnerable, just dumb) and Ubisoft is capitalizing on their stupidity.
It isn't grind, it isn't pay to win PvP, it isn't goofy cosmetics ruining immersion. It is quite possibly the most benign form of microtransactions in existence.
Edit: and I forgot the "best" part: the game has level scaling, so even if you want to buy levels with microtransactions they won't make the game any easier ("best" is in quotes because in general I'm against level scaling, but regardless here it has the hilarious effect of rendering the MTX useless).
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 3, 2020 20:33:20 GMT
Ubi includes MTX yes but it's mostly "time saver" type stuff for their single-player games. Not sure about their multi-player games. Cancerous shit. If a game needs time savers you can be sure the grind was put there deliberately to sell cheats for cash. I wouldn't go to the point of saying the game needs them. It is something that is there, but I know plenty of people both in person and from comments online that never felt like they needed those boosts.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 3, 2020 23:49:06 GMT
Cancerous shit. If a game needs time savers you can be sure the grind was put there deliberately to sell cheats for cash. I wouldn't go to the point of saying the game needs them. It is something that is there, but I know plenty of people both in person and from comments online that never felt like they needed those boosts. In any case selling cheats or mods is dumb enough and doesn't do good for the appeal of the game.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 4, 2020 0:16:37 GMT
In any case selling cheats or mods is dumb enough and doesn't do good for the appeal of the game. As I've played AssCreed: Odyssey, the time savers where entirely redundant. Do any kind of sidequest and you get 25% of the required XP to go up a level, regardless of level. And you can get a sidequest in so many ways, like the game throws them at you. If you choose not to and kill random mooks and beasties, it's not as rewarding. And most sidequests are about walking ~200 meters to the objective, killing someone and walking back 200 meters to the quest giver. You can literally do any quest in less than 5 minutes. If you want to grind, you can do 12 quests an hour, to earn 3 lvls an hour. That's super fucking rewarding, especially when you're something like level 90. You don't need to be level 50 within the first hour of the game. Of course, you can have the choice not to, thanks to the time savers, but I do enjoy doing quests and stuff. I think the grind in Odyssey is more than fair.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 4, 2020 6:14:53 GMT
I wouldn't go to the point of saying the game needs them. It is something that is there, but I know plenty of people both in person and from comments online that never felt like they needed those boosts. In any case selling cheats or mods is dumb enough and doesn't do good for the appeal of the game. Being dumb is a valid opinion, but I don't think it has anything to do with the appeal for the game for a lot of people. It might dissuade some people, but I read an article a few months back that has put Odyssey into the ten million copy sold category so it probably did better then that. Now does that mean that nobody cared and didn't buy the game out of protest of course not, but I think the audience Ubisoft aims for doesn't pay attention for its not the melting face issues that Unity had that did cause sales to crash.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 4, 2020 10:45:29 GMT
In any case selling cheats or mods is dumb enough and doesn't do good for the appeal of the game. As I've played AssCreed: Odyssey, the time savers where entirely redundant. Do any kind of sidequest and you get 25% of the required XP to go up a level, regardless of level. And you can get a sidequest in so many ways, like the game throws them at you. If you choose not to and kill random mooks and beasties, it's not as rewarding. And most sidequests are about walking ~200 meters to the objective, killing someone and walking back 200 meters to the quest giver. You can literally do any quest in less than 5 minutes. If you want to grind, you can do 12 quests an hour, to earn 3 lvls an hour. That's super fucking rewarding, especially when you're something like level 90. You don't need to be level 50 within the first hour of the game. Of course, you can have the choice not to, thanks to the time savers, but I do enjoy doing quests and stuff. I think the grind in Odyssey is more than fair. "Time savers" my rear. You're helping create a narration where that is suddenly a service, worth to be paid - when in reality a simple tweak, cheat or mod would do the same job just fine. Time bollocks.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 4, 2020 10:52:05 GMT
You know how this shit works? They put in arbitrary timers to sell their "time shitters". Just look at Fallout Shelter - I have no idea how this shitty mobile game got so much praise - probably by Fallout hype and excitement. Nevertheless they sold their time scams there too. And what do you know - you really needed to be dumb to get hooked on the simplistic addiction loop of unlocking stuff and craving to do it faster. The fastest way was actually to manipulate your system clock to tell the game X hours had passed and a function would unlock again. Barely worth money. Remember the War Table in DAI? Wasn't popular either - I think you could do with the system clock too. Smart devs would disable that to sell more "time shitters", though. Doesn't change the fact that it's gameplay designed for for arbitrary shit to be sold.
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