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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 14, 2019 20:08:43 GMT
The Starchild said that Shepard would die because he is partly synthetic. Yet, if your EMS is high enough, you wake up. Liar. to be fair, it does'nt say that. It said: You must act. It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed as well. The crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. Even you are partly synthetic.
It means that you too will be targeted, being partly synthetic. Being targeted (or partially targeted) doesn't necessary mean that you will be killed. They higher the EMS, the better the crucible work, causing lesser (almost none) collateral damages to living beings and things. So, the catalyst is simply implying that if you pick destroy you will most likely die. And that's true, except if you have max EMS. I felt that in the context it used the line "Even you are partly synthetic", the Catalyst was more suggesting organics' reliance on their artificial creations in a more general sense, not really hinting at Shepard's possible demise in the Destroy decision. It's already established earlier that Shepard's brain, at the very least, is fully organic, restored by Project Lazarus, with just other vital functions supplemented by the cybernetics. But then, as of Mass Effect 2, so is Garrus, and he's perfectly fine.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 14, 2019 20:12:02 GMT
I don’t trust the star brat at all that’s why I don’t play the game unmodded and without that pile of dren. Shooting a tube makes no sense. My engineer shep would at the very least want to raise a formal protest at the workmanship.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 14, 2019 20:15:44 GMT
Yet people trust him enough when he says damaging the weapon you built to kill him will be what achieves that. Problem with that logic is that it would just as well suggest that all options are lies leading to a futile death trap. But then, if that's true, there's no real point to offering choices at all. The Catalyst could simply always offer that as the only choice, and there would be nothing Shepard could do about it.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 14, 2019 20:51:18 GMT
Yet people trust him enough when he says damaging the weapon you built to kill him will be what achieves that. Yet people trust it enough to jump in a beam that will change everyone's dna or pull two handles to control the reapers This is actually what gives IT a bit of credence. The telepathic genocidal AI is manipulating you into performing counterintuitive and/or suicidal acts. And we're supposed to just go along with it? It's so stupid I actually wish IT WAS true!
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 14, 2019 21:27:06 GMT
Yet people trust him enough when he says damaging the weapon you built to kill him will be what achieves that. Problem with that logic is that it would just as well suggest that all options are lies leading to a futile death trap. But then, if that's true, there's no real point to offering choices at all. The Catalyst could simply always offer that as the only choice, and there would be nothing Shepard could do about it. huh? That is a very good point. However the idea that we trust him because we make a choice is rather dumb. You have to choose or everything dies so not choosing is a dick move since your dooming the whole galaxy. I don't trust star kid but I know you have to take the risk
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Post by Iakus on Mar 14, 2019 21:42:45 GMT
Problem with that logic is that it would just as well suggest that all options are lies leading to a futile death trap. But then, if that's true, there's no real point to offering choices at all. The Catalyst could simply always offer that as the only choice, and there would be nothing Shepard could do about it. huh? That is a very good point. However the idea that we trust him because we make a choice is rather dumb. You have to choose or everything dies so not choosing is a dick move since your dooming the whole galaxy. I don't trust star kid but I know you have to take the risk
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 15, 2019 0:48:27 GMT
I don’t trust the star brat at all that’s why I don’t play the game unmodded and without that pile of dren. Shooting a tube makes no sense. My engineer shep would at the very least want to raise a formal protest at the workmanship. unfortunetly for me I play on a console not a computer. And even if I did buy it for PC I would have to buy the DLC all over again and that is a LOT of money. Although I have come to peace with destroy since shep lives and I think he would hook up with his LI
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 15, 2019 1:02:44 GMT
Yet people trust it enough to jump in a beam that will change everyone's dna or pull two handles to control the reapers This is actually what gives IT a bit of credence. The telepathic genocidal AI is manipulating you into performing counterintuitive and/or suicidal acts. And we're supposed to just go along with it? It's so stupid I actually wish IT WAS true! The only upside to IT is that it would nearly avoid the problems with the endings. Otherwise, I hate it.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 15, 2019 1:04:48 GMT
This is actually what gives IT a bit of credence. The telepathic genocidal AI is manipulating you into performing counterintuitive and/or suicidal acts. And we're supposed to just go along with it? It's so stupid I actually wish IT WAS true! The only upside to IT is that it would nearly avoid the problems with the endings. Otherwise, I hate it. Aren't their multiple versions of IT? The one I liked was the one where shepard wakes up at the beam where harbinger hit him or came close to and then it starts the ending.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 15, 2019 1:12:29 GMT
I only knew about one and it was present throughout the entire game, beginning with the kid dying on Earth that allegedly no one else could see.
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Post by NotN7 on Mar 15, 2019 1:43:52 GMT
Myself? after about 10 play throughs trying to figure out 1. the kid in his dreams 2. why avenia did not know anything about the bar purgatory but could comment about races version of purgatory and 3. why the star brat looked like the kid that died in the beginning, with just those 3 questions with the help from Google and the movie (the real one from the 70's) Jacobs Ladder. I believe that ME3 was a badly presented/fleshed out near death experience, where at the end you had the choice to live or die, but that's me and to me it works.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 2:18:35 GMT
This is actually what gives IT a bit of credence. The telepathic genocidal AI is manipulating you into performing counterintuitive and/or suicidal acts. And we're supposed to just go along with it? It's so stupid I actually wish IT WAS true! I don't know what you mean by IT was true. The game doesn't tell you that you're being indoctrinated by the Reapers. Do you really expect them to just come out and say it?
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 15, 2019 15:47:57 GMT
Problem with that logic is that it would just as well suggest that all options are lies leading to a futile death trap. But then, if that's true, there's no real point to offering choices at all. The Catalyst could simply always offer that as the only choice, and there would be nothing Shepard could do about it. huh? That is a very good point. However the idea that we trust him because we make a choice is rather dumb. You have to choose or everything dies so not choosing is a dick move since your dooming the whole galaxy. I don't trust star kid but I know you have to take the risk I never said we must trust the Catalyst. I sure don't, but that's irrelevant. The Crucible isn't doing anything and the reapers are destroying everything. I guess there could've been the option to just stand there and wait, but the reapers will destroy the Crucible at some point too.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 15, 2019 19:12:01 GMT
huh? That is a very good point. However the idea that we trust him because we make a choice is rather dumb. You have to choose or everything dies so not choosing is a dick move since your dooming the whole galaxy. I don't trust star kid but I know you have to take the risk I never said we must trust the Catalyst. I sure don't, but that's irrelevant. The Crucible isn't doing anything and the reapers are destroying everything. I guess there could've been the option to just stand there and wait, but the reapers will destroy the Crucible at some point too. Or they could have made an ending that actually made sense and properly reflected a three game journey...
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Post by Iakus on Mar 15, 2019 19:13:19 GMT
This is actually what gives IT a bit of credence. The telepathic genocidal AI is manipulating you into performing counterintuitive and/or suicidal acts. And we're supposed to just go along with it? It's so stupid I actually wish IT WAS true! I don't know what you mean by IT was true. The game doesn't tell you that you're being indoctrinated by the Reapers. Do you really expect them to just come out and say it? I do expect an ending to a story to make things clear, yeah. Unless Christopher Nolan is directing, maybe.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 15, 2019 20:58:47 GMT
I never said we must trust the Catalyst. I sure don't, but that's irrelevant. The Crucible isn't doing anything and the reapers are destroying everything. I guess there could've been the option to just stand there and wait, but the reapers will destroy the Crucible at some point too. Or they could have made an ending that actually made sense and properly reflected a three game journey... Next you’ll be saying we shouldn’t have to wait for dlc to deliver an epilogue.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 15, 2019 21:08:42 GMT
huh? That is a very good point. However the idea that we trust him because we make a choice is rather dumb. You have to choose or everything dies so not choosing is a dick move since your dooming the whole galaxy. I don't trust star kid but I know you have to take the risk I never said we must trust the Catalyst. I sure don't, but that's irrelevant. The Crucible isn't doing anything and the reapers are destroying everything. I guess there could've been the option to just stand there and wait, but the reapers will destroy the Crucible at some point too. I think I misunderstood you before since what you just said was what I was trying to say. My mistake.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 15, 2019 21:11:27 GMT
I never said we must trust the Catalyst. I sure don't, but that's irrelevant. The Crucible isn't doing anything and the reapers are destroying everything. I guess there could've been the option to just stand there and wait, but the reapers will destroy the Crucible at some point too. Or they could have made an ending that actually made sense and properly reflected a three game journey... I wish they wouldn't have tried to explain the reapers. I don't mind a little mystery since the reapers are SUPPOSED to be alien and unknowable. I knew if they tried to really explain it it was not gonna make much sense. I do think they should have made what happened afterwards more clear though since it would give closure to the game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 1:12:30 GMT
I don't know what you mean by IT was true. The game doesn't tell you that you're being indoctrinated by the Reapers. Do you really expect them to just come out and say it? I do expect an ending to a story to make things clear, yeah. Unless Christopher Nolan is directing, maybe. With Reaper indoctrination, you weren't going to have the game jump out and tell you that the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you. It's a subtle process.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 16, 2019 3:46:29 GMT
I don't know what you mean by IT was true. The game doesn't tell you that you're being indoctrinated by the Reapers. Do you really expect them to just come out and say it? I do expect an ending to a story to make things clear, yeah. Unless Christopher Nolan is directing, maybe. Yeah If they did IT then they would have to eventually tell you that shepard was indoctrinated.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 16, 2019 3:48:11 GMT
I do expect an ending to a story to make things clear, yeah. Unless Christopher Nolan is directing, maybe. With Reaper indoctrination, you weren't going to have the game jump out and tell you that the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you. It's a subtle process. Yeah but eventually they would have to tell you. I mean if IT was real then wouldn't we find out at the end of the game?
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 16, 2019 4:32:50 GMT
With Reaper indoctrination, you weren't going to have the game jump out and tell you that the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you. It's a subtle process. Yeah but eventually they would have to tell you. I mean if IT was real then wouldn't we find out at the end of the game? Yes we would. Luckily it's not real.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 0:08:06 GMT
With Reaper indoctrination, you weren't going to have the game jump out and tell you that the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you. It's a subtle process. Yeah but eventually they would have to tell you. I mean if IT was real then wouldn't we find out at the end of the game? Well if you look at the symptoms, and apply that to what's in the game, then I guess that would be the game telling you. However, the game won't jump out say "you are indoctrinated". If that's what you expect the game to do, you're going to be disappointed.
The game did show us Shepard was being indoctrinated at the end of the game, through the symptoms, but not through dialogue.
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Post by kalreegar on Mar 17, 2019 12:11:12 GMT
oh boys... still with IT? IT was a mean to and end, a way to show bioware that their ending was so confusing and unintelligible that even a surreal, unacceptable shitty-theory like IT could have been compatible with the ending. It's tragic how some people took it for the real ending.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 12:36:17 GMT
oh boys... still with IT? IT was a mean to and end, a way to show bioware that their ending was so confusing and unintelligible that even a surreal, unacceptable shitty-theory like IT could have been compatible with the ending. It's tragic how some people took it for the real ending. The real ending? There are at least 4 (post-EC) real endings to this game. Funny how people keep insisting it gets reduced to only one... destroy or else... that's the fan line here... and that's crap. Bioware wrote all of Mass Effect with enough vagueness to accommodate the various choices and roleplaying differences that people might want to use. They left a lot open to interpretation and head canon so that people could more freely model their Shepard into being different characters with different philosophies on life and beliefs. That's why, even after all these years and all this flack, Bioware hasn't officially discounted any of the possible interpretations of the endings and why they have said they wouldn't make one ending canon over the others.
The ending I've been describing is an interpretation; but it is not IT. Shepard is not indoctrinated, but in my ending, he/she is a person who believes in God (something he/she can expressly state in ME1). Mass Effect is NOT necessarily as agnostic as you apparently "cherish" it for being. It is vague, however, by intent so that it can be interpreted either way. I really hope that Bioware does NOT declare the destroy ending canon... buckling to the fans who, on one hand, say there cherish choice and on the other try to forfeit the choices made by everyone but themselves. It's no skin off the "destroy" crowd's back that the other endings exist... but somehow they seem to think it is. The franchise can continue without declaration of a canon ending to ME3. All that's required is for the 'destroy" crowd to back off just a little bit... and stop crucifying every other game Bioware has made since... even long before they release.
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