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Proud Sponsor of Swingin' Seamen Charter Fishing: My Live Bait Will Catch Your Fish Every Time!
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 18, 2016 16:57:26 GMT
One of the great crimes of Canadian aviation history, what they did to the Avro Aero  Well, to be fair, this was around the same time NORAD and SAC were coming into their own, both of which relieved the Canadians of the necessity of having their own interception platform since the Americans would be doing it ourselves for us both with our own interceptors. Plus, we'd sell you or license you to manufacture whichever of our own interceptors fit you best. The second, and arguably more logical reason for its cancellation was the continued evolution of ICBM technology, which pretty much meant that interceptors had a role that became largely obsolete. The Arrow (or any contemporary interceptor) wouldn't do you much good against an ICBM launched in Siberia, or an SLBM launched from the Red October or whatever 30 miles off the coast. Combine these factors, and the Canadians pretty much figured that it wasn't worth the effort to pursue their own native design. |
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Oct 18, 2016 17:01:16 GMT
One of the great crimes of Canadian aviation history, what they did to the Avro Aero Well, to be fair, this was around the same time NORAD and SAC were coming into their own, both of which relieved the Canadians of the necessity of having their own interception platform since the Americans would be doing it ourselves for us both with our own interceptors. Plus, we'd sell you or license you to manufacture whichever of our own interceptors fit you best. The second, and arguably more logical reason for its cancellation was the continued evolution of ICBM technology, which pretty much meant that interceptors had a role that became largely obsolete. The Arrow (or any contemporary interceptor) wouldn't do you much good against an ICBM launched in Siberia, or an SLBM launched from the Red October or whatever 30 miles off the coast. Combine these factors, and the Canadians pretty much figured that it wasn't worth the effort to pursue their own native design. Superior plane, way way ahead of it's time, destroyed due to politics. As for the last part, Canada is learning the hard way about buying military air craft on the street so to speak. Your other points are probably pretty valid, still not only ending the project but going to great lengths to destroy anything and everything to do with it. |
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Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 18, 2016 17:05:55 GMT
   Strangely some models have an extra small wing (or a pair of them) behind the cockpit. The topmost image of a plane with canards is not a Su-35. It is just a testing prototype called "Su-37", derived from Su-27. Those with additional canards are not Su-35. They are derivatives of the Su-27, called Su-30 or Su-34. Others again are just technology prototypes. From what I gather, the canards were added to some versions because they became excessively stable, due to more heavy equipment added to the nose. The real Su-35 is a new plane, Su-35S aka Su-35BM. Some prototype called Su-35 may have flown 1988, but it's most likely that the modern Su-35 is somewhat different. Russian air force is only now receiving their Su-35S. It's probably a quite good aircraft. The airframe is likely considerably reinforced (over the Su-27, Su-30, Su-34) for longer life and less restrictions. The empty weight is two metric tonnes heavier. My guess is that this reflects a Westernization of Russian aircraft concepts (fewer aircraft but flying more). The comparison data above is quite flawed. The thrust/weight ratio - for example - at lowest weight (50% fuel) is "only" 1.126. Where they have gotten "1.30" from is anybody's guess. There are many different ways to calculate range (what is the configuration, load? what is the flight profile). The Sukhois have very good range, but a combat radius of 1650 km, 890 nmi is a high estimate. |
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 18, 2016 17:17:07 GMT
I loved the F-104 Starfighter. Such a beautiful name for a plane. And she was basically a body with those stubby wings too.  Pretty, but horribly useless aircraft. Sold with hefty bribes to corrupt politicians, it killed a lot of NATO pilots. To get some kind of idea how bad this aircraft was, we can for example note that the wing loading was almost as high as for the F-35A  . |
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Proud Sponsor of Swingin' Seamen Charter Fishing: My Live Bait Will Catch Your Fish Every Time!
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 18, 2016 17:24:50 GMT
Strangely some models have an extra small wing (or a pair of them) behind the cockpit. To be blunt, the figures for the F-22 are estimations, and not entirely factual; much of the information on it is still classified (particularly RoC for example.) Plus, current software blocks for Western Fighters across the board (be it the Raptor, the Lightning, the Fighting Falcon, the Typhoon, etc.) are also well ahead of most known Russian systems. Sure, the S-35 might be a better fighter than our 4th Generation fighters (as it should be, considering it's a half-generation upgrade over the mainstays), it's not got the same kind of BVR kill-capability that American and European aircraft have. Add the stealth factor in for the Raptor, and you have the virtually undetectable Raptor being able to pinpoint the Flanker at extreme range, while the Flanker either has no clue the Raptor is there, or has no ability to realistically track the Raptor (the stealth isn't all-encompassing of course, but the Flanker would essentially have to 'stare' long and hard at a precise region of the sky and have more luck than a lightning-bolt struck winning lottery ticket to see it.) Thus, a 'slight' edge to the Raptor? Get real man. A flight of Raptors would annihilate a squadron of Flankers. |
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 18, 2016 17:29:17 GMT
I loved the F-104 Starfighter. Such a beautiful name for a plane. And she was basically a body with those stubby wings too. Pretty, but horribly useless aircraft. Sold with hefty bribes to corrupt politicians, it killed a lot of NATO pilots. To get some kind of idea how bad this aircraft was, we can for example note that the wing loading was almost as high as for the F-35A . I wouldn't say it was useless. The North Vietnamese were so terrified of this bad boy that they refused to go up and face it. Which of course meant that its air-to-air capability is largely notional. They'd just wait until the F-105's and A-4's were over to strike. It was a difficult jet to fly, that's for certain. The test-bed version with the rocket-engine at the base of the stabilizer nearly killed Yeager. But on a good day, man could it fly. |
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 18, 2016 17:33:34 GMT
On that note, it's kind of sad that they're slowly decommissioning the A-10. It works so well for the type of wars going on right now. I don't know what the F-35 can do in the same situations, but it's a helluva lot more expensive. I'm divided on its role. By the way, the Air Force has delayed indefinitely the retirement of the A-10. Every test the F-35 has been used in has been a resounding success. And with the advent of other Strike Fighters like the F-15E and F-18E/F, the A-10 is obsolescent; it fulfills a specialist role (ground attack) in which it obviously excels, but the case of mission redundancy comes in; why do you need a ground attack platform for tank busting when a multirole-mission capable fighter can do the same thing with current technology (with added benefits including greater speed, range, weight capacity, and the ability to transition to an air superiority role as the mission is needed)? It's the same issue the Raptor is facing, though the Raptor has the benefit of being designed specifically for Air Dominance, which isn't a mission that will likely go away. It goes into states of periodic dormancy, though come the fight or potential for a fight, and Raptors are in the air to take out all opponents in BVR strike long before the opponent would even know someone else is in the air. The A-10 is useful because it can be maintained on station in orbit around a combat center much more efficiently than an Apache or Viper, has a greater payload capacity than either, and can quickly divert from one target to the next. But as I said, with the tech you can put on a Strike Eagle or Super Hornet or the new Lightning, the A-10 just doesn't have the same necessity anymore. It's not a matter of how effective at the job it is, it's that the job itself just isn't necessary anymore. But I will say that having a Warthog CAS mission overhead in the Korengal Valley was always a terrific sight. I can vouch for its effectiveness personally. It's not just can it do the mission. There's also the question of at what cost? And how many sorties can it generate in a pinch? From what I understand the A-10 is outstanding in those regards? Why spend a lot of $ airing some hyper sophisticated, paranoid technology, if a some other plane can do it much cheaper? Admittedly, there is another side - the day when the A-10 actually can't do the mission at acceptable risk. That is really why the AF want the F-35A. |
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 18, 2016 17:40:28 GMT
To be blunt, the figures for the F-22 are estimations, and not entirely factual; much of the information on it is still classified (particularly RoC for example.) Plus, current software blocks for Western Fighters across the board (be it the Raptor, the Lightning, the Fighting Falcon, the Typhoon, etc.) are also well ahead of most known Russian systems. Sure, the S-35 might be a better fighter than our 4th Generation fighters (as it should be, considering it's a half-generation upgrade over the mainstays), it's not got the same kind of BVR kill-capability that American and European aircraft have. Add the stealth factor in for the Raptor, and you have the virtually undetectable Raptor being able to pinpoint the Flanker at extreme range, while the Flanker either has no clue the Raptor is there, or has no ability to realistically track the Raptor (the stealth isn't all-encompassing of course, but the Flanker would essentially have to 'stare' long and hard at a precise region of the sky and have more luck than a lightning-bolt struck winning lottery ticket to see it.) Thus, a 'slight' edge to the Raptor? Get real man. A flight of Raptors would annihilate a squadron of Flankers. -Duh!? Check out what you pretend to quote, man. Don't put any words in my mouth. Magvs pasted something he had found and copied. I commented his question regarding the canards, and also pointed out that the comparison data was flawed. |
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 18, 2016 17:50:53 GMT
To be blunt, the figures for the F-22 are estimations, and not entirely factual; much of the information on it is still classified (particularly RoC for example.) Plus, current software blocks for Western Fighters across the board (be it the Raptor, the Lightning, the Fighting Falcon, the Typhoon, etc.) are also well ahead of most known Russian systems. Sure, the S-35 might be a better fighter than our 4th Generation fighters (as it should be, considering it's a half-generation upgrade over the mainstays), it's not got the same kind of BVR kill-capability that American and European aircraft have. Add the stealth factor in for the Raptor, and you have the virtually undetectable Raptor being able to pinpoint the Flanker at extreme range, while the Flanker either has no clue the Raptor is there, or has no ability to realistically track the Raptor (the stealth isn't all-encompassing of course, but the Flanker would essentially have to 'stare' long and hard at a precise region of the sky and have more luck than a lightning-bolt struck winning lottery ticket to see it.) Thus, a 'slight' edge to the Raptor? Get real man. A flight of Raptors would annihilate a squadron of Flankers. -Duh!? Check out what you pretend to quote, man. Don't put any words in my mouth. Magvs pasted something he had found and copied. I commented his question regarding the canards, and also pointed out that the comparison data was flawed. The quote system fucked up on me, my bad. I was trying to quote him. |
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 18, 2016 18:02:13 GMT
I'm divided on its role. By the way, the Air Force has delayed indefinitely the retirement of the A-10. Every test the F-35 has been used in has been a resounding success. And with the advent of other Strike Fighters like the F-15E and F-18E/F, the A-10 is obsolescent; it fulfills a specialist role (ground attack) in which it obviously excels, but the case of mission redundancy comes in; why do you need a ground attack platform for tank busting when a multirole-mission capable fighter can do the same thing with current technology (with added benefits including greater speed, range, weight capacity, and the ability to transition to an air superiority role as the mission is needed)? It's the same issue the Raptor is facing, though the Raptor has the benefit of being designed specifically for Air Dominance, which isn't a mission that will likely go away. It goes into states of periodic dormancy, though come the fight or potential for a fight, and Raptors are in the air to take out all opponents in BVR strike long before the opponent would even know someone else is in the air. The A-10 is useful because it can be maintained on station in orbit around a combat center much more efficiently than an Apache or Viper, has a greater payload capacity than either, and can quickly divert from one target to the next. But as I said, with the tech you can put on a Strike Eagle or Super Hornet or the new Lightning, the A-10 just doesn't have the same necessity anymore. It's not a matter of how effective at the job it is, it's that the job itself just isn't necessary anymore. But I will say that having a Warthog CAS mission overhead in the Korengal Valley was always a terrific sight. I can vouch for its effectiveness personally. It's not just can it do the mission. There's also the question of at what cost? And how many sorties can it generate in a pinch? From what I understand is the A-10 outstanding in those regards? Why spend a lot of $ airing some hyper sophisticated, paranoid technology, if a some other plane can do it much cheaper? Admittedly, there is another side - the day when the A-10 actually can't do the mission at acceptable risk. That is really why the AF want the F-35A. Well, nevermind the Lightning, that cost isn't going to be much less than what an F-15E, F-18C/D/E/F, or F-16 can do, if there is a difference at all. My thoughts are that the F-35 isn't really needed to make the A-10's role redundant. Those other platforms are really already doing it just as effectively themselves, and have been doing it for close to 3 decades now. Plus, with the Strike Eagle and Super Hornet's, you have a pilot and a Weapon Systems Officer to guide the bombs, which is a good division of labor for the aircrew. The WSO highlights targets and controls the radar and technical operations, and the Pilot parks the plane in orbit over the combat zone and drops the bombs. And that day is already coming, particularly if we ever go hot with a modern force like Iran or Russia or even Syria. The A-10 is an attacker; it flies low and slow and punches hard, but that's a significant risk with radar-assisted guidance for anti-air cannons and light surface-to-air missiles nowadays. Instead, you can use a more sophisticated Strike Eagle or Super Hornet to be your bomb truck at altitude, and provide them with ECM coverage to make the other sides missile defense useless, all while taking out their radar with an F-16 (also from altitude.) |
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 18, 2016 18:46:33 GMT
It's not just can it do the mission. There's also the question of at what cost? And how many sorties can it generate in a pinch? From what I understand is the A-10 outstanding in those regards? Why spend a lot of $ airing some hyper sophisticated, paranoid technology, if a some other plane can do it much cheaper? Admittedly, there is another side - the day when the A-10 actually can't do the mission at acceptable risk. That is really why the AF want the F-35A. Well, nevermind the Lightning, that cost isn't going to be much less than what an F-15E, F-18C/D/E/F, or F-16 can do, if there is a difference at all. My thoughts are that the F-35 isn't really needed to make the A-10's role redundant. Those other platforms are really already doing it just as effectively themselves, and have been doing it for close to 3 decades now. Plus, with the Strike Eagle and Super Hornet's, you have a pilot and a Weapon Systems Officer to guide the bombs, which is a good division of labor for the aircrew. The WSO highlights targets and controls the radar and technical operations, and the Pilot parks the plane in orbit over the combat zone and drops the bombs. And that day is already coming, particularly if we ever go hot with a modern force like Iran or Russia or even Syria. The A-10 is an attacker; it flies low and slow and punches hard, but that's a significant risk with radar-assisted guidance for anti-air cannons and light surface-to-air missiles nowadays. Instead, you can use a more sophisticated Strike Eagle or Super Hornet to be your bomb truck at altitude, and provide them with ECM coverage to make the other sides missile defense useless, all while taking out their radar with an F-16 (also from altitude.) It's a huge subject and I'm really looking forward to discuss these things with somebody who's informed and intelligent. Problem is I really don't have time. I'll offer my opinions for now though. I think the JSF should have been terminated immediately, as soon as someone even suggested the idea. The current situation with delays, costs overruns and relaxed requirements was totally predictable and indeed also predicted. But at the current point, I'm leaning towards that going forward with the F-35 might be the best option. The hour is late and much money has already been spent. |
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Post by Lavochkin on Oct 18, 2016 18:51:54 GMT
Here's a personal favorite of mine, the Convair F2Y Sea Dart, a prototype fighter aircraft that was the only supersonic seaplane to have ever existed. I'm a fan of the ekranoplane concept, too bad they did no further develop that idea. Especially the Russians with their sea monster. It's a damn shame that Ground effect vehicles remain such an undeveloped piece of technology, as they could revolutionize sea transport, both in terms of passengers(it could even bring back transoceanic sea travel) and cargo. I'd dig cruising the Caribbean or the eastern U.S seaboard or gulf coast in a seacraft traveling at several hundred miles per hour close to the ocean surface. I do love the various Soviet GEVs from the Cold war, particularly these two. A-90 Orlyonok puu.sh/rNpgi/1b56af17c4.jpgVid on it, albeit in Russian. VVA-14 puu.sh/rNpv0/a6ca28ba54.jpg |
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Oct 18, 2016 19:00:31 GMT
 As long as I can remember I've always loved Bf-109. In mid-WW2 this model could be considered useless, but I prefer to give a more important role to pilots and their skills, and say better pilots with slightly less capable planes can fight just as good as a little superior enemies' fighters. |
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 18, 2016 19:10:43 GMT
Here's a beautiful video.
I'm rather confused about "The Grim Reapers" though. I don't think 493 TFS is called Grim Reapers? That sounds to me like a Navy squadron? 493rd used to fly F-111s I think (before F-15C).
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Oct 18, 2016 19:26:36 GMT
An old awesome documentary (with cool music lol) about F-14!
And a newer one:
Am I the only one who thinks F-14 kinda looks like the Rebellion Spaceships in Star Wars?!
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benzene66
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Post by benzene66 on Oct 18, 2016 19:33:16 GMT
 Here is one of my favorites. McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II aka The World's Leading Distributor of MiG Parts. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 20:04:14 GMT
One of the great crimes of Canadian aviation history, what they did to the Avro Aero I remember years ago I watched a movie about the Arrow, I just can't recall what it was called. I do know the politics around why it got pushed aside kinda pissed me off though, it was an amazing aircraft for it's time. |
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a tidy workspace is the sign of a deranged mind
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Post by nanotm on Oct 18, 2016 20:16:29 GMT
the sea harrier at a firepower demo is one of the most awe inspiring sights, having that thing scream in nap of the earth shift to hover over the bandstand and unleash it full payload on the targets then transition away was one of the best things I saw as a kid, as an adult the only things that ever came close were the wah64d and the hind just because they could go static on station until everything was unleashed and then zip off, although neither of the helo's could move anywhere near as fast nor did they generate the same concusive force in the downwash they could both carry more armaments than the harrier... hopefully the f35c will end up just being a bigger better faster greater endurance version of the old harrier otherwise its going to just be a fancy waste of cash.... wouldn't mind seeing the b52's get revamped into a faster more high flying bigger payload carrying version either  |
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Make it simple but significant.
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Post by Larry-3 on Oct 18, 2016 22:24:17 GMT
P-80 Shooting StarThe Shooting Star was developed in the mid 1940s. Its maximum speed is around Mach .7, and its Service Ceiling is 46,000 ft.  F4U-4 CorsairThe F4U was developed in the early 1940s. Its maximum speed is around 440 mph, and its Service Ceiling is 41,000 ft.  Ion ThrusterA working Ion Thruster was constructed in 1959. I believe that was the first successful one built. If given enough time, its maximum speed can reach 10,000 m/s. Also, the Ion Thruster is meant for space. 
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Post by masterwarderz on Oct 18, 2016 22:42:04 GMT
I dig early Jet aviation. Messerschmitt Me 262 Country of Origin: Germany Service life 1942-1945  Messerschmitt ME 328 Country of Origin: Germany Service Life 1944-1945  Shenyang J-5 Country of Origin: China Service Life: 1956-2016  |
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 19, 2016 0:27:38 GMT
Here's another Cold War throw back from the days of SAC. Even if its role and mission were rendered obsolete by the emergence of Ballistic Missiles, it was still one hell of a kicker with just an awesome sounding name (even if it was a steel coffin for many unfortunate pilots). Ladies and Gentlemen... From Convair, the B-58 Hustler, the first heavy bomber capable of reaching Mach 2.  |
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benzene66
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Post by benzene66 on Oct 19, 2016 0:42:15 GMT
  One of my favorite bombers. North American XB-70 Valkyrie. It was capable of reaching Mach 3+ at 70,000 ft. |
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 19, 2016 0:49:29 GMT
One of my favorite bombers. North American XB-70 Valkyrie. It was capable of reaching Mach 3+ at 70,000 ft. Alas, with the advances in Soviet missile technology, interception protocols, and the continued growth of (at the time) unstoppable ballistic missiles (for either side), the role of the strategic nuclear bomber became largely obsolete. As well, spiraling development costs ensured that strategic bombers remained out of the limelight for decades. Pretty soon, we would have started to see concepts for nuclear-powered bomber aircraft, and detachable parasite fighters that could launch from the wings to fight off interceptors. The Valkyrie was yet another victim of that crowd. |
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Post by benzene66 on Oct 19, 2016 0:58:43 GMT
Here are some old warriors.  Lockheed Martin KC-130, based on the C-130 Hercules.  Northrop Grumman E-2 Hawkeye. Carrier-capable airborn early warning aircraft. First introduced into service in 1964. The newest version E-2D.  Lockheed P-3 Orion. It has been the anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft for the U.S Navy since 1962. It is replaced by Boeing P-8 Poseidon. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy
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Post by benzene66 on Oct 19, 2016 1:02:13 GMT
One of my favorite bombers. North American XB-70 Valkyrie. It was capable of reaching Mach 3+ at 70,000 ft. Alas, with the advances in Soviet missile technology, interception protocols, and the continued growth of (at the time) unstoppable ballistic missiles (for either side), the role of the strategic nuclear bomber became largely obsolete. As well, spiraling development costs ensured that strategic bombers remained out of the limelight for decades. Pretty soon, we would have started to see concepts for nuclear-powered bomber aircraft, and detachable parasite fighters that could launch from the wings to fight off interceptors. The Valkyrie was yet another victim of that crowd. It is a shame. Although it is probably a bizarre obsession, I have always loved submarines. So Valkyrie had to give its place to nuclear ballistic missile submarines. |
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