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Post by cloud9 on Dec 25, 2019 16:26:38 GMT
You do know that whatever you're looking into is harvesting entire colonies of people... and yet you're suggesting Shepard might attempt to sort it out without any sort of team backing him/her up. No, that is not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that for all Shepard knows he needs an army, not a team. If he is going to pick specific people then he needs people with broad, specific skills, that can help him understand his enemy. Mordin and Okeer fit this, but the rest do not. We already have soldiers, biotics, and engineers. It's a lot of time and effort to go after these other squadmates when lives are already in jeopardy, recruitment is a violent affair, and we don't actually know if we need these people or what we might need them for. All I'm asking for here is that the plot include a bit more logic from TIM or Shepard or both. I explained this earlier. A dozen commandos is not wide coverage for an unknown this large. Shepard needs more information to more plausibly decide on the team he needs to assemble. Fine, so the Conduit is one way. Why does this matter to the plot? How does it affect the plot? If it doesn't affect the plot in a large way then it is trivial. I stress again, you had better start questioning why Shepard never takes a crap. You are straining really hard here to pull ME1 down to ME2's level and it is very dishonest. None of the rest is relevant to ME1's plot either and is not a plot hole. Next will you explain to me how implausible it is that humans, batarians, and asari can all wear the same armor? How convenient it is that all the species are roughly proportioned the same and thus able to use the same doorways? This is not a clever line of thought. Do you know why the Reapers utilized a slave race to run the Citadel instead of doing it themselves? There'd be no game otherwise. There is no Mass Effect game if the Reapers just employed real hardcore real-world logic and made a fool proof system. You understand? The narrative is structured to tell a specific story. Perhaps different stories could have been told if things were put together differently, but they'd surely have different themes. Reapers use Keepers as slaves. They regard geth as mere tools. Just like Saren uses the krogan, rachni, and Thorian, who in turn used the colonists on Zhu's Hope. Saren decides to live as a slave to avoid death, but Shepard would rather die. Notice the interconnected theme here? Notice as well the irony of Sovereign gloating about how organic life only develops along the technological lines the Reapers lay out for them, yet it was the Protheans surpassing the trappings of the Mass Relay network, by beginning to master it for themselves, that has enabled Shepard to thwart the Reapers now? There's a point to all of it. What point does ME2 have? Outside of the loyalty missions, that is. Those are pretty good. Those are some good points.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 25, 2019 16:29:01 GMT
I think another big factor is that at this point the people left at Bioware are creatively bankrupt. The minds behind the original Mass Effect aren't there now or don't have the same influence. It's very unlikely a new game will be very good. I don't see why folks are going in on the OP...he's just giving his opinion on why he thinks the next game will bomb...given what we've seen in Andromeda, it's not ridiculous to think that it might happen. The overall writing and character development is what hurt Andromeda....even with the animation and glitches, Andromeda's issues was with it's core elements...Story and characters. Mass Effect has been hurting since the second game which also saw serious writing and character issues. Those problems carried into ME3, which had even bigger problems, stripping out conversations, and bungling the core story and climax. The damage was so bad that the next game was set in a new galaxy but the people writing that game were not good writers either and the team developing it was inexperienced. They had some good ideas for gameplay but it was a mighty task they weren't prepared for and EA is never patient or careful with its acquired IP's. Point is, this series has been in decline since development began on the second game. But those who rule you are mortals. They can be voted out, overthrown, or even just waited out. Governments rise, fall, and change based on the people involved. The Reapers are NEVER going away. And they certainly won't allow the other races to develop past a certain point, lest they become uncontrollable. Don't bother. People these days think they're free when daddy government gives them every need and comfort, whilst limiting their liberty and watching their every move. Modern man seeks to be a farm animal. Regarding Cerberus and imports and ME3's ending... yeah, the writing had serious flaws from the outset. I understand the limitations of story permutations, disc space, budget, ect... but clearly they bit off more than they could chew and made simple mistakes along the way. It was inexcusable not to have some serious dialog with TIM about the events of ME1, especially for a Sole Survivor Shepard. It would have been easy to justify Shepard working with Cerberus if the Council had one line where they tell you to do it so you can use their resources to stop the Collectors and gather intel on them. Some of ME2's other plot holes could have been filled in with simple dialog expanding on character motivations and backstory. There are a great many missed opportunities. Had they gotten ME2 right they'd have been better positioned to finish off ME3 in a satisfactory way. However sadly Casey Hudson and Mac Walters never knew what they were doing and their skills weren't suited toward directing an overarching trilogy. Agreed.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 27, 2019 4:08:08 GMT
It was on the Presidium because everyone assumed it was just a piece of art. In the current cycle, sure. But why did the Protheans put it there? It wasn't an artwork to them. Unless the current cycle moved it there from somewhere else on the Citadel, which is conceivable. Why would they move it? Odds are the area could have had a completely different function with the Protheans.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 27, 2019 21:31:48 GMT
It's an awfully exposed location for a supposedly secret project.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Dec 27, 2019 21:45:25 GMT
*Asari explorers on the Citadel* "Hey, what's this?"
"I dunno. looks like a little mass relay"
"Maybe it's a piece of Prothean art?"
"Maybe. Let's bring it out to the Presidium so everyone can appreciate it"
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Dec 28, 2019 1:32:16 GMT
It's an awfully exposed location for a supposedly secret project. I always assumed the only secret project part was the part on Illos that the part on the presidium had always been there, part of reaper construction. As I understand it the citadel is what got taken first. So x years in how would the secret project be built even in part there. It also helps explain why it functions differently than other relays and is one way.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 28, 2019 14:43:34 GMT
asari #1: Do you hear that hum? Why are my teeth tingling? asari#2: What's your problem? asari#1: I think this relay, statue thing is......whatever. voice: Is there a problem? asari#1: Uh...no...well yes Matriarch whatever your name is. I think this item here is making my teeth tingle. Matriarch: Your imagining that. Any other complaints? asari#1: Yes there is. Why aren't we investigating these...things, bugs, whatever? Matriarch: I would guess they are pets of the former tenants who left because they fell behind on the rent and didn't have enough credits to take their pets with them to wherever they went. This facility is a great find for our species. I also find your questioning very annoying. CAPTAIN! Take these two back to the ship, then have them reassigned to another unit that doesn't involve being on this facility. Captain: Yes ma'am asari#2: That's great. You shouldn't have said anything asari#1: I don't give a ****. I hate that stupid B*t*h. Ever since I've been assigned to her, I wanted to get in her face and tell her to stuff it. You know what? When we get back to Thessia, I'm going to quit the military, then see about getting my old job back at Club Tentacle where I was making a lot of credits. The Matriarch can have this facility. Hopefully the owners return to kick her a** asari#2: Ha. I would pay to see that happen. By the way, do you think I could work as a stripper at Club Tentacle?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 15:38:23 GMT
It's an awfully exposed location for a supposedly secret project. I always assumed the only secret project part was the part on Illos that the part on the presidium had always been there, part of reaper construction. As I understand it the citadel is what got taken first. So x years in how would the secret project be built even in part there. It also helps explain why it functions differently than other relays and is one way. Fair assumption... however, the game gives us absolutely no indication that the structure was something constructed by the Reapers or that the Protheans used an existing structure to "tie in" their mini-relay. Were it the case, I would have expected Vigil to have said something along that thought. I also cannot see a reason why the Reapers (who are huge) would construct a mini-relay on their main station or construct something that could be turned into a functional relay by any species inhabiting the Citadel... and then not provide themselves with any means of getting back onto the Citadel should the keepers fail to respond to their activation signal (since it's obvious from the game that Sovereign could not use the mini-relay itself to access the Citadel, but had to go around using the regular relay network to meet up with Saren there.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Dec 28, 2019 17:32:14 GMT
I always assumed the only secret project part was the part on Illos that the part on the presidium had always been there, part of reaper construction. As I understand it the citadel is what got taken first. So x years in how would the secret project be built even in part there. It also helps explain why it functions differently than other relays and is one way. Fair assumption... however, the game gives us absolutely no indication that the structure was something constructed by the Reapers or that the Protheans used an existing structure to "tie in" their mini-relay. Were it the case, I would have expected Vigil to have said something along that thought. I also cannot see a reason why the Reapers (who are huge) would construct a mini-relay on their main station or construct something that could be turned into a functional relay by any species inhabiting the Citadel... and then not provide themselves with any means of getting back onto the Citadel should the keepers fail to respond to their activation signal (since it's obvious from the game that Sovereign could not use the mini-relay itself to access the Citadel, but had to go around using the regular relay network to meet up with Saren there. We are also given no indication it’s not reaper design. It’s all assumptions. As for why they’d build it that way, I always assumed the reapers had some shock troops that they warped in to help take the citadel. Being a giant space Cthulhu makes it a bit rough to get the morsels inside. And while they by the end of the trilogy we know they have a AI inside controlling it, all those jackasses inside might try to take action to mess with things at least until they are indoctrinated. And at the writing of ME1 time I kind of doubt the citadel has the Star kid AI thing was even a thought. So a secret reaper mini gate that functions in a way to deposit Troops inside the citadel makes sense to me. The keepers probably actively try to stop people from learning about it. The protheans are aware of it as it happened to them. They get one transmission via their advanced beacon system out and now the scientists are aware of it. And that’s how they start the project. The hack they do to the keepers goes beyond just stopping a signal. I mean the reapers apparently know the 50k years are up that’s why they are there in me3. It stopped the citadel from being able to link to the relays in dark space, it’s not just a wake up call. Why didn’t vigil explain it. He was short handing a lot of the info he gave you as time was a issue. He probably had reams of info on how reapers took over, but all we get is some basic they control the relays it takes hundreds of years thing. So him leaving how the how’s and why’s the secret project worked isn’t a stretch. Otherwise their secret project to warp handfuls of scientists on board the citadel was accomplished by handfuls of scientists who were already on board the citadel by other means. Honestly their plan makes little sense either way. They pretty much waited for the reapers to leave before they acted so a spaceship would have done the same thing. I just don’t understand how they could accomplish building a relay on the citadel during the war. And if it was built before it, they didn’t really need a secret project to build one on ilos either. And what’s his faces stasis pod lasting 50k years makes the ilos pods running out of juice in 300 years seem kind of weird. All in all it was a dumb plan based on the information given. Just hide a bunch of people with stasis pods that last 500 years easy. Fix the citadel with a spaceship, start over. So more must have been going on there that vigil didn’t tell us for the story to have any chance to make sense.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 29, 2019 4:46:04 GMT
It's an awfully exposed location for a supposedly secret project. And yet if the Citadel was kept close at all times and only opened for allowed ships to enter and exit then it wouldn't be so exposed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 10:05:54 GMT
Fair assumption... however, the game gives us absolutely no indication that the structure was something constructed by the Reapers or that the Protheans used an existing structure to "tie in" their mini-relay. Were it the case, I would have expected Vigil to have said something along that thought. I also cannot see a reason why the Reapers (who are huge) would construct a mini-relay on their main station or construct something that could be turned into a functional relay by any species inhabiting the Citadel... and then not provide themselves with any means of getting back onto the Citadel should the keepers fail to respond to their activation signal (since it's obvious from the game that Sovereign could not use the mini-relay itself to access the Citadel, but had to go around using the regular relay network to meet up with Saren there. We are also given no indication it’s not reaper design. It’s all assumptions. As for why they’d build it that way, I always assumed the reapers had some shock troops that they warped in to help take the citadel. Being a giant space Cthulhu makes it a bit rough to get the morsels inside. And while they by the end of the trilogy we know they have a AI inside controlling it, all those jackasses inside might try to take action to mess with things at least until they are indoctrinated. And at the writing of ME1 time I kind of doubt the citadel has the Star kid AI thing was even a thought. So a secret reaper mini gate that functions in a way to deposit Troops inside the citadel makes sense to me. The keepers probably actively try to stop people from learning about it. The protheans are aware of it as it happened to them. They get one transmission via their advanced beacon system out and now the scientists are aware of it. And that’s how they start the project. The hack they do to the keepers goes beyond just stopping a signal. I mean the reapers apparently know the 50k years are up that’s why they are there in me3. It stopped the citadel from being able to link to the relays in dark space, it’s not just a wake up call. Why didn’t vigil explain it. He was short handing a lot of the info he gave you as time was a issue. He probably had reams of info on how reapers took over, but all we get is some basic they control the relays it takes hundreds of years thing. So him leaving how the how’s and why’s the secret project worked isn’t a stretch. Otherwise their secret project to warp handfuls of scientists on board the citadel was accomplished by handfuls of scientists who were already on board the citadel by other means. Honestly their plan makes little sense either way. They pretty much waited for the reapers to leave before they acted so a spaceship would have done the same thing. I just don’t understand how they could accomplish building a relay on the citadel during the war. And if it was built before it, they didn’t really need a secret project to build one on ilos either. And what’s his faces stasis pod lasting 50k years makes the ilos pods running out of juice in 300 years seem kind of weird. All in all it was a dumb plan based on the information given. Just hide a bunch of people with stasis pods that last 500 years easy. Fix the citadel with a spaceship, start over. So more must have been going on there that vigil didn’t tell us for the story to have any chance to make sense. The indication we are given is that the one on the Citadel is of exactly the same construction as the one on Ilos... which we are told was built by Prothean scientists. It is also of very different construction than the ones the Reapers made, which are much more massive.
Until ME3, there is no indication that the Reapers transport anything small to and from the Citadel; and then that mini-relay is not actually used... the "beam" is introduced instead. The lore in ME1 is that the Citadel itself is a massive relay. There is no reason to put a relay within a relay.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 29, 2019 12:32:02 GMT
It's too bad Shepard didn't go back to Ilos, after defeating Saren, to ask Vigil about the mini-me relay. And as I said in another post, too bad Shepard couldn't meet Javik at the mini-me relay to get him to touch it to give any details about the relay.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Dec 29, 2019 19:05:39 GMT
The indication we are given is that the one on the Citadel is of exactly the same construction as the one on Ilos... which we are told was built by Prothean scientists. It is also of very different construction than the ones the Reapers made, which are much more massive.
Until ME3, there is no indication that the Reapers transport anything small to and from the Citadel; and then that mini-relay is not actually used... the "beam" is introduced instead. The lore in ME1 is that the Citadel itself is a massive relay. There is no reason to put a relay within a relay.
If you are building a relay to attach to a existing relay why wouldn't it look the same as the one you are attaching it to. They are copying the technology. And besides it pretty much looks like a standard relay but smaller.
We are given no indication about what reapers do outside they wipe out everyone every 50k years. Yes the beam is introduced for continuous short distance direct line of sight transport, but transporting something from dark space to the citadel is another matter. And the relay inside a relay would be needed if it had a different function, specifically actual transport of non spaceships into the inside of the citadel. Normally mass relays create a mass free corridor so a ship can effectively infinitely accelerate, how do you walk or drive a car into that and have it work. It is maybe a related but different technology, so having a unit inside the citadel to do that tracks.
We are just told the reapers show up and take over the citadel. We are given no indication how. And the ability to transport reaper troops right into its center certainly would help. And given that technology would mostly benefit the MW races if it was widespread having only one normally dedicated for the reapers makes sens as well.
I mean given how stupid the plan was on its face, it possible the protheans plan was to sneak a group of scientists on board the citadel so they could build a relay to sneak scientist onboard the citadel. But, that seems counter intuitive to me. It would also indicate that the protheans developed a superior relay without ever building a single relay before, which again seems odd to me. I can buy copying the existing tech and hacking into it, but developing a superior version without ever successfully building a normal one while possible seems a bit strange.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 19:15:51 GMT
The indication we are given is that the one on the Citadel is of exactly the same construction as the one on Ilos... which we are told was built by Prothean scientists. It is also of very different construction than the ones the Reapers made, which are much more massive.
Until ME3, there is no indication that the Reapers transport anything small to and from the Citadel; and then that mini-relay is not actually used... the "beam" is introduced instead. The lore in ME1 is that the Citadel itself is a massive relay. There is no reason to put a relay within a relay.
If you are building a relay to attach to a existing relay why wouldn't it look the same as the one you are attaching it to. They are copying the technology. And besides it pretty much looks like a standard relay but smaller.
We are given no indication about what reapers do outside they wipe out everyone every 50k years. Yes the beam is introduced for continuous short distance direct line of sight transport, but transporting something from dark space to the citadel is another matter. And the relay inside a relay would be needed if it had a different function, specifically actual transport of non spaceships into the inside of the citadel. Normally mass relays create a mass free corridor so a ship can effectively infinitely accelerate, how do you walk or drive a car into that and have it work. It is maybe a related but different technology, so having a unit inside the citadel to do that tracks.
We are just told the reapers show up and take over the citadel. We are given no indication how. And the ability to transport reaper troops right into its center certainly would help. And given that technology would mostly benefit the MW races if it was widespread having only one normally dedicated for the reapers makes sens as well.
I mean given how stupid the plan was on its face, it possible the protheans plan was to sneak a group of scientists on board the citadel so they could build a relay to sneak scientist onboard the citadel. But, that seems counter intuitive to me. It would also indicate that the protheans developed a superior relay without ever building a single relay before, which again seems odd to me. I can buy copying the existing tech and hacking into it, but developing a superior version without ever successfully building a normal one while possible seems a bit strange.
Except that the Prothean scientists are only "on the cusp" of developing that technology when the Reapers hit the Citadel... cutting off their access. Not to mention also, they are sitting on Ilos - with a whole galaxy between them and their "model." I said that your assumption was a "fair assumption" but there is no indication that the Reapers made that relay while there is a counter--indication that would say the Protheans did. My position has always been, overall, that the thing is one huge plot hole in ME1... It makes no sense and there is no real way to make good sense out of it. Your assumption is fair, but not a full explanation of what Vigil says in the game. That is all.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 29, 2019 20:10:38 GMT
Sure, but I've always thought that fans should try to use the best possible interpretation of a work which is ambiguous or has logic issues.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 1:07:55 GMT
Sure, but I've always thought that fans should try to use the best possible interpretation of a work which is ambiguous or has logic issues. Again... I did say it was a "fair assumption." So, I am in no way saying that fans shouldn't try to fill in plot holes with their own reasoning. It doesn't, however, fix the hole... it still exists in the game until/unless Bioware writes something that explains it. They had an opportunity to do that in ME3, but they instead invented the beam that led to someplace completely different than the mini-relay.
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Post by clips7 on Dec 30, 2019 1:33:32 GMT
asari #1: Do you hear that hum? Why are my teeth tingling? asari#2: What's your problem? asari#1: I think this relay, statue thing is......whatever. voice: Is there a problem? asari#1: Uh...no...well yes Matriarch whatever your name is. I think this item here is making my teeth tingle. Matriarch: Your imagining that. Any other complaints? asari#1: Yes there is. Why aren't we investigating these...things, bugs, whatever? Matriarch: I would guess they are pets of the former tenants who left because they fell behind on the rent and didn't have enough credits to take their pets with them to wherever they went. This facility is a great find for our species. I also find your questioning very annoying. CAPTAIN! Take these two back to the ship, then have them reassigned to another unit that doesn't involve being on this facility. Captain: Yes ma'am asari#2: That's great. You shouldn't have said anything asari#1: I don't give a ****. I hate that stupid B*t*h. Ever since I've been assigned to her, I wanted to get in her face and tell her to stuff it. You know what? When we get back to Thessia, I'm going to quit the military, then see about getting my old job back at Club Tentacle where I was making a lot of credits. The Matriarch can have this facility. Hopefully the owners return to kick her a** asari#2: Ha. I would pay to see that happen. By the way, do you think I could work as a stripper at Club Tentacle?
Hilarious!!...lol....
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 30, 2019 2:27:49 GMT
It's too bad Shepard didn't go back to Ilos, after defeating Saren, to ask Vigil about the mini-me relay. And as I said in another post, too bad Shepard couldn't meet Javik at the mini-me relay to get him to touch it to give any details about the relay. I wish I could find it, but I remember something about Vigil no longer being active when people went to Ilos after the conclusion of Mass Effect 1 for Virgil was heavily damaged when Shepard was there. edit: Here is the link to the Mass Effect wiki. Vigil Powered Down
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Post by themikefest on Dec 30, 2019 4:38:58 GMT
It's too bad Shepard didn't go back to Ilos, after defeating Saren, to ask Vigil about the mini-me relay. And as I said in another post, too bad Shepard couldn't meet Javik at the mini-me relay to get him to touch it to give any details about the relay. I wish I could find it, but I remember something about Vigil no longer being active when people went to Ilos after the conclusion of Mass Effect 1 for Virgil was heavily damaged when Shepard was there. edit: Here is the link to the Mass Effect wiki. Vigil Powered Down And how long after the events of ME1 did it take for anyone to go to Ilos? Would Vigil still be active if Shepard went to Ilos right after defeating Saren?
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 30, 2019 5:05:07 GMT
I wish I could find it, but I remember something about Vigil no longer being active when people went to Ilos after the conclusion of Mass Effect 1 for Virgil was heavily damaged when Shepard was there. edit: Here is the link to the Mass Effect wiki. Vigil Powered DownAnd how long after the events of ME1 did it take for anyone to go to Ilos? Would Vigil still be active if Shepard went to Ilos right after defeating Saren? Its been awhile since I played ME1, but I always had the impression that Vigil was barely working when we were there so by the time some things settled lets say a couple of days he might have been further damaged by Geth that were left behind or just finally stopped working after telling its story to Shepard.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 5:22:45 GMT
I wish I could find it, but I remember something about Vigil no longer being active when people went to Ilos after the conclusion of Mass Effect 1 for Virgil was heavily damaged when Shepard was there. edit: Here is the link to the Mass Effect wiki. Vigil Powered DownAnd how long after the events of ME1 did it take for anyone to go to Ilos? Would Vigil still be active if Shepard went to Ilos right after defeating Saren? What if Shepard had done with Vigil what Kai Leng did in ME3 with Vendetta... picked him up, put him in his pocket, and brought him with him to the Citadel?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 12:42:05 GMT
The indication we are given is that the one on the Citadel is of exactly the same construction as the one on Ilos... which we are told was built by Prothean scientists. It is also of very different construction than the ones the Reapers made, which are much more massive.
Until ME3, there is no indication that the Reapers transport anything small to and from the Citadel; and then that mini-relay is not actually used... the "beam" is introduced instead. The lore in ME1 is that the Citadel itself is a massive relay. There is no reason to put a relay within a relay.
The beam functions like teleportation. Considering how advanced the Reapers are compared to us, it's not that hard to believe they'd have something like that.
Even IRL, we have managed to teleport photons, but not a whole person, yet. And this is in the early 21st century, not the late 22nd century.
When you get right down to it, mass relays essentially teleport you from one side of the galaxy to another. So the Reapers do have access to teleportation.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 30, 2019 13:08:43 GMT
And how long after the events of ME1 did it take for anyone to go to Ilos? Would Vigil still be active if Shepard went to Ilos right after defeating Saren? Its been awhile since I played ME1, but I always had the impression that Vigil was barely working when we were there so by the time some things settled lets say a couple of days he might have been further damaged by Geth that were left behind or just finally stopped working after telling its story to Shepard. One month after Saren was stopped, the SR1 is destroyed. When talking to Anderson in ME2 or if the council survived ME1, they say the hologram is no longer functional. It sounds like they went to Ilos after the SR1 was destroyed. No one knows when the hologram finally shutdown. Instead of going back to Ilos to ask the hologram questions and/or finding a way to stop the reapers, Shepard is chasing geth.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 13:38:07 GMT
The indication we are given is that the one on the Citadel is of exactly the same construction as the one on Ilos... which we are told was built by Prothean scientists. It is also of very different construction than the ones the Reapers made, which are much more massive.
Until ME3, there is no indication that the Reapers transport anything small to and from the Citadel; and then that mini-relay is not actually used... the "beam" is introduced instead. The lore in ME1 is that the Citadel itself is a massive relay. There is no reason to put a relay within a relay.
The beam functions like teleportation. Considering how advanced the Reapers are compared to us, it's not that hard to believe they'd have something like that.
Even IRL, we have managed to teleport photons, but not a whole person, yet. And this is in the early 21st century, not the late 22nd century.
When you get right down to it, mass relays essentially teleport you from one side of the galaxy to another. So the Reapers do have access to teleportation.
I honestly don't know where it is you're getting from my posts that I'm saying the Reapers don't have access to teleportation. I'm saying the design of the mini-relay is an exact duplicate of the one on Ilos AND we know the Protheans built the one on Ilos... from a distance basically across the galaxy and without having, at that point in time, access to the one on the Citadel in order to copy it so exactly. If they had alreayd managed to create an exact blueprint of the one on the Citadel before the Reapers attacked, why would Vigil say that the Protheans were only "on the cusp" of discovering Mass Effect relay technology when the Reapers attacked. If they were only building and experimently with the one on Ilos centuries after the Reapers attacked such that they went to the Citadel after the Reapers left it to sabotaged the Keepers, there should be some variances apparent in the design of the two of them... even in that it is unlikely that there would have been the exact same materials available on Ilos to construct it... again centuries later than the one on the Citadel. Instead they are exacty alike.
Again, I already said ahglock's assumption was a fair one. It, however, does not completely explain the discrepancies it what Vendetta tells us and what we visually see. It still makes no sense that the Reapers would effectively lock themselves out of the Citadel every 50,000 years rather than locking the Citadel Relay in such a way that the species could not get to them but they could get to the species at all times. The "lock" on that relay is on the wrong side of the door. It does not explain why the Reapers would build a relay on the Citadel through which they themselves could not pass... and we know they could not pass through from Ilos. Sovereign had to take the long way around. If he didn't, he would have followed Saren through that mini-relay, and found hmself right at the base of the Citadel tower... he could have then blasted everyone on the Citadel in one shot... and the battle with the Fifth Fleet would have never occurred.
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Post by sassafrassa on Dec 31, 2019 16:35:17 GMT
Except that the Prothean scientists are only "on the cusp" of developing that technology when the Reapers hit the Citadel... You are demanding a very precise answer from a very vague statement. My impression is that the Conduit, which includes the half of the device on the Citadel, is a prototype. If research has the reached prototype-replication stage then one could say the research is on the cusp of its final breakthrough.
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