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Post by azarhal on Mar 24, 2019 20:59:34 GMT
Brian Mitsoda confirmed that the player character is not voiced on twitter. Question, do the links only work if it someone who has never visited the page before? Or only if the clicker also creates an account? From what I've read elsewhere, just clicking on the link is enough. There is an awful lag on your embraces count increasing though (that gotten worst over the weekend), Paradox will have a tech team look into it Monday. All I hope isnthat the gameplay isn’t all “cinematic” and crap like it was in the trailer, I hope they are aiming for gameplay that feels in line with the original where combat could be avoided and sometimes should be avoided and tha your stats factors into it. The trailer shows a "not actual gameplay" watermark at the start and not all combat was avoidable in Bloodlines 1 (especially in the later half). From the previews of people who saw the first 30 minutes of the game, they said it looked similar to Dishonored 1/2 which are FPV immersive sim stealth RPGs that support no kills playthroughs despite having the best FPV combat in the genre. No kill playthrough is apparently not possible in Bloodlines 2 though (but it wasn't in Bloodlines 1 either). Seduction and negotiation skills were mentioned in some previews and Brian Mitsoda very much said it was a " Yes, #bloodlines2 is an RPG with reactive story/dialogue, a branching narrative, and tons of characters.". edit: It should probably be noted that Bloodlines 2 is based off 5e, while the first game was on a previous version that date back to 15 years ago (and took a few liberties with the rules).
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Post by bshep on Mar 24, 2019 21:43:32 GMT
That sucks. I still see non voiced protagonist in a game full of voice acting as a weird decision in this day and age, feels like cutting corners to me. Which i guess it was one of the reasons going from his tweet.
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Post by river82 on Mar 24, 2019 21:54:37 GMT
The original was made by Troika, a studio long since gone extinct. I don't have much hope for the sequel because different minds behind it.
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Post by Gwydden on Mar 24, 2019 22:39:22 GMT
The original was made by Troika, a studio long since gone extinct. I don't have much hope for the sequel because different minds behind it. Eh, there was exactly one remarkable thing about the first one (the first half was a decent adaptation of the tabletop and let you get by with few to no combat skills), and it was otherwise a very clunky game. A proof-of-concept that should be easy to improve upon, if you will. For a game by the actual developers of Bloodlines, we have The Outer Worlds.
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Post by river82 on Mar 24, 2019 22:45:03 GMT
The original was made by Troika, a studio long since gone extinct. I don't have much hope for the sequel because different minds behind it. Eh, there was exactly one remarkable thing about the first one (the first half was a decent adaptation of the tabletop and let you get by with few to no combat skills), and it was otherwise a very clunky game. A proof-of-concept that should be easy to improve upon, if you will. For a game by the actual developers of Bloodlines, we have The Outer Worlds. For a 2004 game it offered quite good freedom and choice + consequence. It's a key reason it became a cult classic. If that proof of concept offers a polished game that reduces the amount of in-world reactivity and options you have as a player, then the game is a bust as a sequel imo.
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Post by Gwydden on Mar 24, 2019 23:04:42 GMT
For a 2004 game it offered quite good freedom and choice + consequence. It's a key reason it became a cult classic. If that proof of concept offers a polished game that reduces the amount of in-world reactivity and options you have as a player, then the game is a bust as a sequel imo. Obviously I'd want a sequel to offer and even improve upon the one really good thing from the original, but I wouldn't overstate the first one's merits. My experience of it was that the first half was pretty cool, because I got to roleplay a type of protagonist unusual in CRPGs, but the second half was an absolutely atrocious, mostly linear series of dungeon runs that seemed to come from a completely different game. So for me, that second half is already the Bloodlines "franchise" at its absolute worst, and there is so much that could be improved about the first half (the gameplay and the writing, for starters) that I am reticent to call it amazing and pretend improving upon it would even be that hard. It is extremely risky to make a sequel to a cult classic, because some fans of the original will inevitably be harsh on it for failing to live up to the nostalgic fantasy in their heads. I feel like I can give this a fair shake, though.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Mar 24, 2019 23:21:00 GMT
That sucks. I still see non voiced protagonist in a game full of voice acting as a weird decision in this day and age, feels like cutting corners to me. Which i guess it was one of the reasons going from his tweet. Do you want a game with the amount of choices and background exclusive dialogues that Bloodines 1 had or max of 2-3 options that is the same for everyone and watered down story reactivity? Bloodlines 1 had exclusives options based on the clans you choose with the Malkavian having every lines being unique (+ some extra stuff too). A Ventrue shouldn't sound like a Nostferatu or a Brujah either. That means every clan would need their own male and female voice actors. That's 14 actors just for the playable character. That also means they have to process 14 actors worth of recording to put it in the game (that actually takes more time than recording it). No studio in this "day and age" would pay for that. They would strip down all the choices so all they need is a male and female actors. Bloodlines 2 has more dialogue choices than the first game according to Brian Mitsoda and they have 6 "clans" slots on the official website and more to come post release (for free). They went with what the fans of the first game wanted: role-playing options and story reactivity. On top of it, like I mentioned previously, I doubt the game has a AAA budget, that's not Paradox's market.
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Upggrade
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Post by Upggrade on Mar 24, 2019 23:29:13 GMT
Anybody see Razorfists video about this? Better than even chance we're getting politics rammed down our throats. Because everyone loves that.
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Post by river82 on Mar 24, 2019 23:31:07 GMT
Bloodlines 2 has more dialogue choices than the first game according to Brian Mitsoda and they have 6 "clans" slots on the official website and more to come post release (for free). They went with what the fans of the first game wanted: role-playing options and story reactivity.
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Kymira
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Post by Kymira on Mar 25, 2019 0:04:50 GMT
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Mar 25, 2019 0:57:00 GMT
Anybody see Razorfists video about this? Better than even chance we're getting politics rammed down our throats. Because everyone loves that. If someone can't stand politics, I have no idea why they would be interested in a Vampire the Masquerade game to start with. It's all about the various vampire clans and vampire organisation political (in)-fighting. Also, I suggest that people read the article right here (and not just the sensationalist title) that some people are cherry picking to hell and back over the "politics" stuff. I have yet to see one of them quote the political issues mentioned in it. Probably because art vs commerce and tradition vs technology doesn't work that well as click bait. Or that the interview itself mention the devs making sure all side are covered and to let the player pick their stand on it. Also, based on 5e tradition vs technology is plain Camarilla vs Anarch.
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Post by vella on Mar 25, 2019 9:36:03 GMT
I am really exited over this. I will definitely follow it closely. Dunno if I should pre-order or not though
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Post by Upggrade on Mar 25, 2019 10:12:41 GMT
Anybody see Razorfists video about this? Better than even chance we're getting politics rammed down our throats. Because everyone loves that. If someone can't stand politics, I have no idea why they would be interested in a Vampire the Masquerade game to start with. It's all about the various vampire clans and vampire organisation political (in)-fighting. Also, I suggest that people read the article right here (and not just the sensationalist title) that some people are cherry picking to hell and back over the "politics" stuff. I have yet to see one of them quote the political issues mentioned in it. Probably because art vs commerce and tradition vs technology doesn't work that well as click bait. Or that the interview itself mention the devs making sure all side are covered and to let the player pick their stand on it. Also, based on 5e tradition vs technology is plain Camarilla vs Anarch. Inter-clan politics in the game world is one thing, and can be very interesting, telling me a character practices Islam and is also openly gay and his whole deal is standing up for oppressed minorities is a whole other thing.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 25, 2019 11:20:03 GMT
I am really exited over this. I will definitely follow it closely. Dunno if I should pre-order or not though I have a policy when it comes to pre-orders and that is I wait until about a week prior to launch and if the game still has my interest at that time and I know I will be buying near launch I will pre-order for the cheesy bonuses.
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Post by Aliaspig on Mar 25, 2019 11:23:49 GMT
If someone can't stand politics, I have no idea why they would be interested in a Vampire the Masquerade game to start with. It's all about the various vampire clans and vampire organisation political (in)-fighting. Also, I suggest that people read the article right here (and not just the sensationalist title) that some people are cherry picking to hell and back over the "politics" stuff. I have yet to see one of them quote the political issues mentioned in it. Probably because art vs commerce and tradition vs technology doesn't work that well as click bait. Or that the interview itself mention the devs making sure all side are covered and to let the player pick their stand on it. Also, based on 5e tradition vs technology is plain Camarilla vs Anarch. Inter-clan politics in the game world is one thing, and can be very interesting, telling me a character practices Islam and is also openly gay and his whole deal is standing up for oppressed minorities is a whole other thing. You clearly have no actual problem with politics in media since you referenced a YouTube channel that is literally all political videos. The difference is you don't want politics you don't agree with to be shown in the game in any kind of favorable way. When I don't agree with politics in my media I stop engaging with it. I don't try to derail a thread on a forum by crying about how it's "being shoved down my throat". And I sure as hell don't relate it to a violent act, because I'm not dramatic. The existence of a wide array of characters with different beliefs and lives shouldn't be considered a personal affront to you. Those people are real. And they've been left out of media long enough. This is the last reply I will make to you. I'm not interested in an argument, nor am I interested to derail the topic anymore than you already have. Have a nice day.
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Post by kali073 on Mar 25, 2019 11:46:56 GMT
Brian Mitsoda confirmed that the player character is not voiced on twitter. Question, do the links only work if it someone who has never visited the page before? Or only if the clicker also creates an account? From what I've read elsewhere, just clicking on the link is enough. There is an awful lag on your embraces count increasing though (that gotten worst over the weekend), Paradox will have a tech team look into it Monday. Oh that's great! Currently I haven't had any embraces count even though I know people have pressed my link. But there were/are several wonky things with the accounts. When I first made an account, I didn't get a confirmation email. Some people said there was an hour lag for many so I didn't think much of it and did the quests and sent the link to a friend. She made an account but nothing showed up in my "embraces". I requested another confirmation mail and then shut down the page. The confirmation email didn't arrive. So I left my phone and made an account through my desktop computer usi g the same email and password. The email came within 2 min but none of my progress had counted so I started over. Today I noticed that the webpage on my phone doesn't acknowledge that I've found all the "blodpacks". So on my computer I have 160 blood points but on my phone I have 100 bp and when I click the final blodpack it gives me an error message - likely because I already "found" it on my computer. On the subject of silent protagonist, in this case I prefer it. Voiced is fine for a more defined characters, like Geralt or Shephard, but for something like this (6 possible protagonists, 12 if you count male/female, and more on the way) I prefer a silent one. About Rudi, I don't see how he's that much different from any other anarch? Like Nines dislikes wealthy/powerful people beause they affected him when he was alibe during the depression, Rudi dislikes those that discriminate against minorities beause what he experienced while alive. The blurb on his character might be a bit in-your-face but it's a text page of his personal info, what can you expect? If we meet him in the game I don't think he'll introduce himself with: "I'm black, gay, and fight for minorities." because people don't talk that way. They'll introduce him in a more organic way - if he's even in the game.
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Post by vella on Mar 25, 2019 11:47:21 GMT
Here is my link. www.bloodlines2.com/?ref=1c5b7be1ad83Any idea which clans will be included or not? I see six spots for clans in the website but the previous game had seven clans. Which one will be dropped in your opinion? Gangrel? Malkavians? Toreador? I really hope Malkavians will be included. I played all my games as Malkavian and wasn't that much interested to even try the game with any other clan. I am crazy that way I understand the trickyness of Malkavian dialogue will need extra effort from the devs which means extra money. I will keep my fingers crossed.
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Post by azarhal on Mar 25, 2019 12:26:08 GMT
Brian Mitsoda confirmed that the player character is not voiced on twitter. From what I've read elsewhere, just clicking on the link is enough. There is an awful lag on your embraces count increasing though (that gotten worst over the weekend), Paradox will have a tech team look into it Monday. Oh that's great! Currently I haven't had any embraces count even though I know people have pressed my link. But there were/are several wonky things with the accounts. When I first made an account, I didn't get a confirmation email. Some people said there was an hour lag for many so I didn't think much of it and did the quests and sent the link to a friend. She made an account but nothing showed up in my "embraces". I requested another confirmation mail and then shut down the page. The confirmation email didn't arrive. So I left my phone and made an account through my desktop computer usi g the same email and password. The email came within 2 min but none of my progress had counted so I started over. Today I noticed that the webpage on my phone doesn't acknowledge that I've found all the "blodpacks". So on my computer I have 160 blood points but on my phone I have 100 bp and when I click the final blodpack it gives me an error message - likely because I already "found" it on my computer. On the subject of silent protagonist, in this case I prefer it. Voiced is fine for a more defined characters, like Geralt or Shephard, but for something like this (6 possible protagonists, 12 if you count male/female, and more on the way) I prefer a silent one. About Rudi, I don't see how he's that much different from any other anarch? Like Nines dislikes wealthy/powerful people beause they affected him when he was alibe during the depression, Rudi dislikes those that discriminate against minorities beause what he experienced while alive. The blurb on his character might be a bit in-your-face but it's a text page of his personal info, what can you expect? If we meet him in the game I don't think he'll introduce himself with: "I'm black, gay, and fight for minorities." because people don't talk that way. They'll introduce him in a more organic way - if he's even in the game. You have to logout/login to get the current status of the account. It doesn't appear to do live update and sometimes just use your computer cache it seems. For the record, Rudi's page circulating around has nothing to do with Bloodlines 2. It's from one of the 5e table top manuals which is meant to describe NPCs and events for the storytellers (aka gamemasters). I doubt he's going to be in the game, his not America based.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Mar 25, 2019 12:37:28 GMT
Here is my link. www.bloodlines2.com/?ref=1c5b7be1ad83Any idea which clans will be included or not? I see six spots for clans in the website but the previous game had seven clans. Which one will be dropped in your opinion? Gangrel? Malkavians? Toreador? I really hope Malkavians will be included. I played all my games as Malkavian and wasn't that much interested to even try the game with any other clan. I am crazy that way I understand the trickyness of Malkavian dialogue will need extra effort from the devs which means extra money. I will keep my fingers crossed. My guess is Gangrel, Whitewolf lost the trademark to a wrestler (David William Heath) and they made them independent of everyone in 5e which is kinda the equivalent of stashing them in a corner (there are still Gangrel NPCs though). That might also explain why 2 of the 3 starting abilities seems based on the Protean Discipline. There won't be a Gangrel clan to join, but by remaining "thin-blood" it will be like playing as one (and yes it is confirmed you don't have to join a clan). One previewer said Malkavian were in. Chris Avellone might have said they were in too. There is a Nosferatu in the "not gameplay" trailer. I don't see the Toreador left out of whole "art vs commerce" argument. Brujah are poster boys and girls for the Anarchs. Tremere are the mage class. Ventrue are the "classic" vampire. Based on the image on the website: Toreador Ventrue Brujah (who frenzied) Tremere Nosferatu (might also represent the Malkavian) Malkavian (remains to be seen what "bonus" means) It's possible the "bonus" is no clan, in that case Brujah seems the most expendable.
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 25, 2019 13:17:14 GMT
Can't wait. I played the original so long ago and fell in love with the tabletop game even though I rarely had a group to play it with in my hometown. Had very ambiguous feelings about the new 5E core book. The layout and writing generally feel sloppy, and annoyingly political at times. All the characters in the art look like models wearing silly ugly haute couture outfits rather than real clothes, even the Nosferatu, and everything about it just screams "sexy modern elegance" with very little of the cynicism and the brutality and ugliness that used to be a part of the setting. It had some great mechanical ideas too, but I hope the video game will dial it back a bit. Also hope that a potential Malkavian character won't be as much of a nutcase as in the first game. It's fine to play a character who's a bit nutty and prophetic, but I want to play an actual person with those challenges rather than a one-dimensional ball of crazy. I'll probably change my mind a dozen times over in the next year, but at the moment I'm building a dock-working Nossie huckster in anticipation.
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Post by CitizenChris on Mar 25, 2019 13:21:34 GMT
Here is my link. www.bloodlines2.com/?ref=1c5b7be1ad83Any idea which clans will be included or not? I see six spots for clans in the website but the previous game had seven clans. Which one will be dropped in your opinion? Gangrel? Malkavians? Toreador? I really hope Malkavians will be included. I played all my games as Malkavian and wasn't that much interested to even try the game with any other clan. I am crazy that way I understand the trickyness of Malkavian dialogue will need extra effort from the devs which means extra money. I will keep my fingers crossed. One thing I do hope is that the emphasis is on dialogue rather than the combat. My worry is that they are making this game basically play like Dishonored, where the RPG mechanics don’t really factor into how well you do in combat and dialogue trees are virtually nonexistent. Or rather, they are pretty simple. So far, I have a little more faith in the Outer World’s being a game that feels like a return to form in regards to western RPGs. But we’ll see how it turns out with this one.
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Post by bshep on Mar 25, 2019 13:24:05 GMT
That sucks. I still see non voiced protagonist in a game full of voice acting as a weird decision in this day and age, feels like cutting corners to me. Which i guess it was one of the reasons going from his tweet. Do you want a game with the amount of choices and background exclusive dialogues that Bloodines 1 had or max of 2-3 options that is the same for everyone and watered down story reactivity? I never said that neither did i implied it. What i said was that this seemed likely a move to reduce production cost which Brian reply seems to imply may have been one of the reasons. Bloodlines 1 had exclusives options based on the clans you choose with the Malkavian having every lines being unique (+ some extra stuff too). A Ventrue shouldn't sound like a Nostferatu or a Brujah either. That means every clan would need their own male and female voice actors. That's 14 actors just for the playable character. That also means they have to process 14 actors worth of recording to put it in the game (that actually takes more time than recording it). No studio in this "day and age" would pay for that. They would strip down all the choices so all they need is a male and female actors. Bloodlines 2 has more dialogue choices than the first game according to Brian Mitsoda and they have 6 "clans" slots on the official website and more to come post release (for free). They went with what the fans of the first game wanted: role-playing options and story reactivity. On top of it, like I mentioned previously, I doubt the game has a AAA budget, that's not Paradox's market. That is a kind of exageration. If you start outside of any one of 6 clans with the possiblity to join one or more of them, or not join at all, then two voice actors (one male and another female) could do the voice acting. Voice modulation is a necessity in this type of profession and the range of it could be expanded via software to accomodate the diferences between the types of vampires. But you are right on mentioning they likely don't have the budget to voice the main character on a RPG.
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Post by azarhal on Mar 25, 2019 14:02:02 GMT
Do you want a game with the amount of choices and background exclusive dialogues that Bloodines 1 had or max of 2-3 options that is the same for everyone and watered down story reactivity? I never said that neither did i implied it. What i said was that this seemed likely a move to reduce production cost which Brian reply seems to imply may have been one of the reasons. Bloodlines 1 had exclusives options based on the clans you choose with the Malkavian having every lines being unique (+ some extra stuff too). A Ventrue shouldn't sound like a Nostferatu or a Brujah either. That means every clan would need their own male and female voice actors. That's 14 actors just for the playable character. That also means they have to process 14 actors worth of recording to put it in the game (that actually takes more time than recording it). No studio in this "day and age" would pay for that. They would strip down all the choices so all they need is a male and female actors. Bloodlines 2 has more dialogue choices than the first game according to Brian Mitsoda and they have 6 "clans" slots on the official website and more to come post release (for free). They went with what the fans of the first game wanted: role-playing options and story reactivity. On top of it, like I mentioned previously, I doubt the game has a AAA budget, that's not Paradox's market. That is a kind of exageration. If you start outside of any one of 6 clans with the possiblity to join one or more of them, or not join at all, then two voice actors (one male and another female) could do the voice acting. Voice modulation is a necessity in this type of profession and the range of it could be expanded via software to accomodate the diferences between the types of vampires. But you are right on mentioning they likely don't have the budget to voice the main character on a RPG. The vampire clans affiliation are based on blood curses that affect the vampire at a psychological and physical level. Voice modulation wouldn't help. It's not pitch that needs to be changed, it's the intonation, the way the words are spoken. A Ventrue should have a "posh" way of saying things while a Brujah should sound passionate/angry. Even if they use only 2 actors, they will have to record everything multiple times spoken differently for each clans which doesn't reduce the cost in anyway because voice actors are paid based on how much time they spend in the booth to record, not the amount of unique text lines they read. Using software to manipulate every lines of dialogue is going to take more time than having an actor do it. And yes, you implied you wanted less dialogues choices when you said you wanted a voiced protagonist, because the only thing that came with RPGs switching to voiced protagonist is less role-playing choices, shorter games and fixed protagonist...and that's from AAA games. The moment a game doesn't bother with voicing the protagonist, the dialogue choices and role-play options explode, Pathfinder Kingmaker is the latest example of that (and that wasn't AAA either). The other choice is that you are implying is that game should have the largest AAA budget ever.
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Post by bshep on Mar 25, 2019 15:28:05 GMT
The vampire clans affiliation are based on blood curses that affect the vampire at a psychological and physical level. Voice modulation wouldn't help. It's not pitch that needs to be changed, it's the intonation, the way the words are spoken. A Ventrue should have a "posh" way of saying things while a Brujah should sound passionate/angry. Even if they use only 2 actors, they will have to record everything multiple times spoken differently for each clans which doesn't reduce the cost in anyway because voice actors are paid based on how much time they spend in the booth to record, not the amount of unique text lines they read. Using software to manipulate every lines of dialogue is going to take more time than having an actor do it. And yes, you implied you wanted less dialogues choices when you said you wanted a voiced protagonist, because the only thing that came with RPGs switching to voiced protagonist is less role-playing choices, shorter games and fixed protagonist...and that's from AAA games. The moment a game doesn't bother with voicing the protagonist, the dialogue choices and role-play options explode, Pathfinder Kingmaker is the latest example of that (and that wasn't AAA either). The other choice is that you are implying is that game should have the largest AAA budget ever. And that is perfectly possible so long as one have the budget (Bioware is proof of that) which this company doesn't as i have mentioned before. I will even remind you that Mark Meer was able to change his voice so much during the Mass Effect trilogy that it sounded like someone else when he was voicing minor characters and that was without help from any kind of software to modulate voices.
And by the way my comment was very straightforward so stop trying to see way too much into it and to keep affirming that i said or implied things that i did not.
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Post by azarhal on Mar 25, 2019 15:45:24 GMT
The vampire clans affiliation are based on blood curses that affect the vampire at a psychological and physical level. Voice modulation wouldn't help. It's not pitch that needs to be changed, it's the intonation, the way the words are spoken. A Ventrue should have a "posh" way of saying things while a Brujah should sound passionate/angry. Even if they use only 2 actors, they will have to record everything multiple times spoken differently for each clans which doesn't reduce the cost in anyway because voice actors are paid based on how much time they spend in the booth to record, not the amount of unique text lines they read. Using software to manipulate every lines of dialogue is going to take more time than having an actor do it. And yes, you implied you wanted less dialogues choices when you said you wanted a voiced protagonist, because the only thing that came with RPGs switching to voiced protagonist is less role-playing choices, shorter games and fixed protagonist...and that's from AAA games. The moment a game doesn't bother with voicing the protagonist, the dialogue choices and role-play options explode, Pathfinder Kingmaker is the latest example of that (and that wasn't AAA either). The other choice is that you are implying is that game should have the largest AAA budget ever. And that is perfectly possible so long as one have the budget (Bioware is proof of that) which this company doesn't as i have mentioned before. I will even remind you that Mark Meer was able to change his voice so much during the Mass Effect trilogy that it sounded like someone else when he was voicing minor characters and that was without help from any kind of software to modulate voices.
And by the way my comment was very straightforward so stop trying to see way too much into it and to keep affirming that i said or implied things that i did not.
Bloodlines 1 has more dialogues choices than any BioWare games since they moved to voiced protagonist without even counting the clan exclusive stuff. Did you even play Bloodlines 1?
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