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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 21:20:11 GMT
Having the Crucible fail to work is one ending that wasn't an option in ME3 and it allows the Reaper war to just continue into another episode with a different hero. Or after Shepard learns the thing is part of the Citadel and controls the reapers, he/she refuses. Shepard calls for a shuttle. Back on the SR2, he/she explains to Hackett that destroying the Citadel might stop the harvest. Shepard jumps in the drivers seat, and while listening to AC/DC - Highway To He**, at full volume, excellent , sends the station into the sun. After that, the reapers are seen heading back to darkspace. ... and in the next ME, Shepard's personality is just like Ryder's... excellent. He hops aboard the Quarian ark (which hadn't left yet because of the geth/quarian war) and winds up in Andromeda to be become Robin to Ryder's Batman... excellent.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 29, 2019 21:22:43 GMT
They ultimately CHOSE to write Andromeda Because the fanbase wanted a sequel. and they obviously had a plan to continue that story Which died with Bioware Montreal. Now, that plan is gone. They did not ultimately choose to write a prequel But that wasn't the plan. And evidently, plans change. A prequel has not been published. One could be done if they choose that. It's not my preference, but I would probably prefer it over a Shepard continuation with a canon ME3 ending choice. Good for you, I am happy for you. This fixes the problems that I have raised in my post only in part, though. As in we save ourselves from the outright ridicule of an Andromeda 2. If they put Shepard in a prequel, people could still be very disappointed... because it would essentially eliminate 2 of the 3 Shepard backstories (spacer, colonist, earthborn) and 2 of the 3 personality backgrounds (war hero, sole survivor, ruthless). But Shepard is neither the problem, nor the solution of it, in himself. PS: It doesn't necessarily end the same way. That's up to Bioware to tell the story... devise a different way to get out of the situation they set up for the franchise. Yes, it does. The Curcible doesn't fire either way, it would still be retconning the ending and also being a "fuck you" by making the refusal ending canon, one that isn't even possible in the base game. If anything, this should go even more against your belief, from what you've told me so far.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 29, 2019 21:29:06 GMT
Voyeger STILL lasted 7 seasons... bringing it back for Season 2 of it, didn't forever trash the franchise. Andromeda can still be continued and wind up being successful. It's not the insta-turnoff that people like to claim it would be. Franchise names are regularly used for spin offs that are very different from the originals. It's not an unforgivable "sin" that Bioware used Mass Effect in Andromeda's name. I am in favor of an Andromeda 2 (if there is an Andromeda 2, I'd say the less they mention the milky way the better. Just make it it's own thing and focus on what happens in Andromeda itself.)
But that's not how this conversation started. You brought Voyager into this by saying this: And sure, they do. I don't have a problem with them telling a completely new story than Shepard's. On the contrary, I was completely happy and in favor of that. The problem is how badly they changed the entire lore when making that new story.
My point is that Andromeda had a whole set of different issues than Voyager had. The two are not comparable at all. And sure, franchise names are often misused and that doesn't make it better for any of them. And even then, I have barely ever seen a spin-of that was kicked it's "mother frnachise" lore in the teeth as much as Andromeda did. Hell, even the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies are integrated better into ST lore. Or look at Stargate Atlantis. ANother SciFi series that sent their spin-off into another galaxy but they set it up in a way so it was logical for them to go there and get there.
The Andromeda background story feels like it was written by someone who didn't give a shit in about 3 minutes. Now that we are through the worst of it, I am not of the opinion that this should prevent it from continuing now but I will maintain that it was a huge mess and I can understand anyone who can't push their suspension of disbelief up to eleven and get over it as easily as you seem to be able to or to just take it and move on as I would be willing to do.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 29, 2019 21:32:41 GMT
Or after Shepard learns the thing is part of the Citadel and controls the reapers, he/she refuses. Shepard calls for a shuttle. Back on the SR2, he/she explains to Hackett that destroying the Citadel might stop the harvest. Shepard jumps in the drivers seat, and while listening to AC/DC - Highway To He**, at full volume, excellent , sends the station into the sun. After that, the reapers are seen heading back to darkspace. ... and in the next ME, Shepard's personality is just like Ryder's... excellent. He hops aboard the Quarian ark (which hadn't left yet because of the geth/quarian war) and winds up in Andromeda to be become Robin to Ryder's Batman... excellent. My Shepard would smack the little duck around like a ragdoll, then knock him/her to ground, then watch as little Ryder curls up in a fetal position and start sucking their thumb.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 21:42:30 GMT
They ultimately CHOSE to write Andromeda Because the fanbase wanted a sequel. and they obviously had a plan to continue that story Which died with Bioware Montreal. Now, that plan is gone. They did not ultimately choose to write a prequel But that wasn't the plan. And evidently, plans change. A prequel has not been published. One could be done if they choose that. It's not my preference, but I would probably prefer it over a Shepard continuation with a canon ME3 ending choice. Good for you, I am happy for you. This fixes the problems that I have raised in my post only in part, though. As in we save ourselves from the outright ridicule of an Andromeda 2. If they put Shepard in a prequel, people could still be very disappointed... because it would essentially eliminate 2 of the 3 Shepard backstories (spacer, colonist, earthborn) and 2 of the 3 personality backgrounds (war hero, sole survivor, ruthless). But Shepard is neither the problem, nor the solution of it, in himself. PS: It doesn't necessarily end the same way. That's up to Bioware to tell the story... devise a different way to get out of the situation they set up for the franchise. Yes, it does. The Curcible doesn't fire either way, it would still be retconning the ending and also being a "fuck you" by making the refusal ending canon, one that isn't even possible in the base game. If anything, this should go even more against your belief, from what you've told me so far. AFAIK, Mac Walters (who the fans seems to blame for the writing) didn't leave with Bioware Montreal. He didn't start out as Lead Writer on Andromeda, but he is the one who allegedly drove it to completion in those last 18 months of development. I don't think the overall story plan died with Bioware Montreal at all. Ultimately, we'll all have to just see what happens... if the public likes the Shepard they wake up (if THEY decide to go that route). It's still not my preference.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 29, 2019 21:48:57 GMT
Having the Crucible fail to work is one ending that wasn't an option in ME3 and it allows the Reaper war to just continue into another episode with a different hero. Or after Shepard learns the thing is part of the Citadel and controls the reapers, he/she refuses. Shepard calls for a shuttle. Back on the SR2, he/she explains to Hackett that destroying the Citadel might stop the harvest. Shepard jumps in the drivers seat, and while listening to AC/DC - Highway To He**, at full volume, excellent , sends the station into the sun. After that, the reapers are seen heading back to darkspace. That kills everyone on the Citadel so pass.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 21:50:18 GMT
Voyeger STILL lasted 7 seasons... bringing it back for Season 2 of it, didn't forever trash the franchise. Andromeda can still be continued and wind up being successful. It's not the insta-turnoff that people like to claim it would be. Franchise names are regularly used for spin offs that are very different from the originals. It's not an unforgivable "sin" that Bioware used Mass Effect in Andromeda's name. I am in favor of an Andromeda 2 (if there is an Andromeda 2, I'd say the less they mention the milky way the better. Just make it it's own thing and focus on what happens in Andromeda itself.)
But that's not how this conversation started. You brought Voyager into this by saying this: And sure, they do. I don't have a problem with them telling a completely new story than Shepard's. On the contrary, I was completely happy and in favor of that. The problem is how badly they changed the entire lore when making that new story.
My point is that Andromeda had a whole set of different issues than Voyager had. The two are not comparable at all. And sure, franchise names are often misused and that doesn't make it better for any of them. And even then, I have barely ever seen a spin-of that was kicked it's "mother frnachise" lore in the teeth as much as Andromeda did. Hell, even the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies are integrated better into ST lore. Or look at Stargate Atlantis. ANother SciFi series that sent their spin-off into another galaxy but they set it up in a way so it was logical for them to go there and get there.
The Andromeda background story feels like it was written by someone who didn't give a shit in about 3 minutes. Now that we are through the worst of it, I am not of the opinion that this should prevent it from continuing now but I will maintain that it was a huge mess and I can understand anyone who can't push their suspension of disbelief up to eleven and get over it as easily as you seem to be able to or to just take it and move on as I would be willing to do.
You're reading specifics into my statement that simply aren't there. The only point I was making with Voyager is that company's use franchise names for spin offs that are significantly different from the originals all the time. Lakus was implying that not using the name would have made Andromeda more easily accepted. I say that's the problem of the fans, not the company. It's up to the fans to be as open-minded about a pilot as a sequel and the fans loss if they don't give something a fair shake just because of their own preconceived ideas. Voyager had 7 seasons.... a similar run to both TNG and DSN.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 21:53:18 GMT
... and in the next ME, Shepard's personality is just like Ryder's... excellent. He hops aboard the Quarian ark (which hadn't left yet because of the geth/quarian war) and winds up in Andromeda to be become Robin to Ryder's Batman... excellent. My Shepard would smack the little duck around like a ragdoll, then knock him/her to ground, then watch as little Ryder curls up in a fetal position and start sucking their thumb. Again... your Shepard is dead or existing in an alternate reality along with all of mine.. We're talking about Bioware's canon Shepard. The moment Bioware writes the sequel, anything you did creating "your Shepard" gets left on the cutting room floor. You may or may not like the "new Shepard" they resurrect. Writing the story forward yourself in any way, shape or form at this point is a total waste of time... it's an "alternate reality."
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 29, 2019 21:58:12 GMT
I am in favor of an Andromeda 2 (if there is an Andromeda 2, I'd say the less they mention the milky way the better. Just make it it's own thing and focus on what happens in Andromeda itself.)
But that's not how this conversation started. You brought Voyager into this by saying this: And sure, they do. I don't have a problem with them telling a completely new story than Shepard's. On the contrary, I was completely happy and in favor of that. The problem is how badly they changed the entire lore when making that new story.
My point is that Andromeda had a whole set of different issues than Voyager had. The two are not comparable at all. And sure, franchise names are often misused and that doesn't make it better for any of them. And even then, I have barely ever seen a spin-of that was kicked it's "mother frnachise" lore in the teeth as much as Andromeda did. Hell, even the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies are integrated better into ST lore. Or look at Stargate Atlantis. ANother SciFi series that sent their spin-off into another galaxy but they set it up in a way so it was logical for them to go there and get there.
The Andromeda background story feels like it was written by someone who didn't give a shit in about 3 minutes. Now that we are through the worst of it, I am not of the opinion that this should prevent it from continuing now but I will maintain that it was a huge mess and I can understand anyone who can't push their suspension of disbelief up to eleven and get over it as easily as you seem to be able to or to just take it and move on as I would be willing to do.
You're reading specifics into my statement that simply aren't there. The only point I was making with Voyager is that company's use franchise names for spin offs that are significantly different from the originals all the time. Lakus was implying that not using the name would have made Andromeda more easily accepted. I say that's the problem of the fans, not the company. It's up to the fans to be as open-minded about a pilot as a sequel and the fans loss if they don't give something a fair shake just because of their own preconceived ideas. Voyager had 7 seasons.... a similar run to both TNG and DSN. And I say that Voyager is a crappy example for your point because as a spin-off, there was no reason to say it's not Star Trek. It fits directly into the DS9 season that was on at the time.
The Andromeda Initiative as described to have been carried out in the 2170s and 80s did not fit into the ME universe of the time. Therefore, I completely get lakus' argument of saying it would have been better off not being part of ME in the first place but something independent.
In the end, "the company" (i.e. the creators of a franchise) and the fans are of course interdependent. I don't think you can say that there is a clear cut case where it is "the problem" of just the fans or just the company. If they are no longer on the same page, it's always a problem for both.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 29, 2019 22:05:44 GMT
AFAIK, Mac Walters (who the fans seems to blame for the writing) didn't leave with Bioware Montreal. He didn't start out as Lead Writer on Andromeda, but he is the one who allegedly drove it to completion in those last 18 months of development. I don't think the overall story plan died with Bioware Montreal at all. Ultimately, we'll all have to just see what happens... if the public likes the Shepard they wake up (if THEY decide to go that route). It's still not my preference. It wasn't Mac's plan t have Montreal closed down and all the writing staff that was there be either shifted or let go. Personally, I don't care for Mac, he did what he (and Casey) thought was best at the time. It was crunch and Bioware magic didn't work that well. But that is still not the problem. Bioware needs to sell games and not cause shitstorms/bad PR, at least as far as EA goes. Certain Bioware games have failed on at least one of those two fronts. And Bioware has failed to get on top of the situation on multiple occasions. This had led to Bioware not realizing their full potential, as far as sales go, at least. I won't even get on the critical reception/PR part. I've been, among other things, speaking about the divide in the fanbase. I've seen that divide begin and grow since DA2, sometimes with greater strides, depending on the reception of a new Bioware release, it grew exponentially with the ME3 ending debacle, (I was there for the "hold the line threads" that were reaching hundreds of pages within a few days) and seven years later it still hasn't healed, if anything, it grew larger with Andromeda and Anthem. Bioware, right now, has so many open fronts that they just need a pause from it all, something to get people back with them again. Imagine if Bioware went out tomorrow and made an announcement and just shut everybody up. Or even better, made people talk about them in an excited, hopeful manner again. All the big youtube channels are nothing but critical of them, nowadays. Imagine if you turned everything around with just that and you went to work at Bioware the next day. Imagine how relieved you'd be, how hopeful and excited you'd be to work on something knowing that people are behind it so much. Now imagine doing the same thing after announcing Andromeda 2. I'm sorry, but it's just not there.
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Post by river82 on Apr 29, 2019 22:18:07 GMT
Anthem was released literally half finished. Usually this is hyperbole for a game that's almost complete and just needs a touch up here and there, but not so with Anthem, there's no content in the game and the loot system (a main part of the game) was tacked on as an afterthought and is horrible. If anyone is promoting the idea that the fans didn't allow Bioware to get a fresh start in Anthem then they're pushing an agenda, there was excitement leading up to release then ... abject disappointment.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 29, 2019 23:16:31 GMT
Oh crap the star trek arguments are coming out...this will be ugly
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Post by river82 on Apr 29, 2019 23:44:35 GMT
Oh crap the star trek arguments are coming out...this will be ugly Star Trek is horrible anyway because it's not science fantasy
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 30, 2019 20:00:25 GMT
They need to hire someone that knows Mass Effect lore/story/everything inside-out and knows how to untangle it all and then go from there. If they add even more nonsense to these games I'm going to be disappointed. Yeah, BioWare are very dumb when it comes to making mistakes and not learning from them. Also they don't believe in editing and look over things before they release the game.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 30, 2019 20:17:36 GMT
Because the fanbase wanted a sequel. Which died with Bioware Montreal. Now, that plan is gone. But that wasn't the plan. And evidently, plans change. Good for you, I am happy for you. This fixes the problems that I have raised in my post only in part, though. As in we save ourselves from the outright ridicule of an Andromeda 2. But Shepard is neither the problem, nor the solution of it, in himself. Yes, it does. The Curcible doesn't fire either way, it would still be retconning the ending and also being a "fuck you" by making the refusal ending canon, one that isn't even possible in the base game. If anything, this should go even more against your belief, from what you've told me so far. AFAIK, Mac Walters (who the fans seems to blame for the writing) didn't leave with Bioware Montreal. He didn't start out as Lead Writer on Andromeda, but he is the one who allegedly drove it to completion in those last 18 months of development. I don't think the overall story plan died with Bioware Montreal at all. Ultimately, we'll all have to just see what happens... if the public likes the Shepard they wake up (if THEY decide to go that route). It's still not my preference.
I can think of several ideas that would be a great for MEA2 and one that does includes bringing Shepard (kinda) into the Andromeda galaxy and taking the franchise into a new direction. Going back to the Milky Way Galaxy is just bad fanservice pandering and that will hurt and/or kill the series dead faster than anything.
Either go forward or don't bother.
That is why I love Star Wars: The Last Jedi, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Transformers: Beast Machines, and the 13th Doctor because they are taking chances and moving their respective franchise forward not wallowing in nostalgia for bad fanservice pandering, if I want that I'll watch Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Star Trek 11, and Transformers: Animated. and if I want to play Commander Shepard's story you know what I'll do:
1) I turn of my Xbox One S, Xbox 360, or PS3. 2) I put in the disc to ME1, ME2, or ME3 into the console.
3) I play the game.
See it's not hard at all.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 30, 2019 20:41:13 GMT
I can think of several ideas that would be a great for MEA2 and one that does includes bringing Shepard (kinda) into the Andromeda galaxy I'm going to say it again, Shepard, in himself, is neither the problem of Mass Effect, nor the solution. But you should go ahead and explain your idea. Going back to the Milky Way Galaxy is just bad fanservice pandering and that will hurt and/or kill the series dead faster than anything. Why is it bad and why will it kill the series faster? I don't think it can do it faster than Andromeda. I mean, Andromeda did a really good job at it. We got the news, what? Two months after release that it was dead? Go forward or don't bother. I love Star Wars: The Last Jedi and Star Trek: Discovery because they are taking chances and moving their respective franchise forward not wallowing in nostalgia for bad fanservice pandering, if I want that I'll watch Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Star Trek, and Transformers: Animated. It's good that you love a lot of these things, I am very happy that you have things that you enjoy, but that's not related to the issue here. There is a very, very, very good chance that Andromeda 2 will get buried and blasted to oblivion, by gaming outlets and media youtubers, on the day of its announcement. And I'm talking massively blasted. Don't believe me? Look at what a blast they are having with Anthem right now. This will be happening on the same basis, throughout Andromeda 2's development cycle, all the way to release and unless it's absolutely stellar, not just on par with OT, but stellar, you're goddamn right it's going to get memed to oblivion. If you do that, right now, you're going to be signing Bioware's death certificate.
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Post by alanc9 on May 1, 2019 15:12:33 GMT
You're reading specifics into my statement that simply aren't there. The only point I was making with Voyager is that company's use franchise names for spin offs that are significantly different from the originals all the time. Lakus was implying that not using the name would have made Andromeda more easily accepted. I say that's the problem of the fans, not the company. It's up to the fans to be as open-minded about a pilot as a sequel and the fans loss if they don't give something a fair shake just because of their own preconceived ideas. Voyager had 7 seasons.... a similar run to both TNG and DSN. And I say that Voyager is a crappy example for your point because as a spin-off, there was no reason to say it's not Star Trek. It fits directly into the DS9 season that was on at the time.
The Andromeda Initiative as described to have been carried out in the 2170s and 80s did not fit into the ME universe of the time. Therefore, I completely get lakus' argument of saying it would have been better off not being part of ME in the first place but something independent.
That part of the argument has always been a bit weak. The ODSY drive doesn't violate any known physical principles in the MEU -- it does what Reapers can do, only not quite as well. Inventing the drive in the mid-2170s is late enough for the structure of MW colonization to not have significantly changed from how the trilogy presents things. The Nexus is a bit much to swallow. OTOH, the Cerberus base is both huge and, apparently, mobile, so there's precedent. The really hard part is explaining why the SR-1 and SR-2 wouldn't have had the new-style drive.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 1, 2019 15:13:22 GMT
My Shepard would smack the little duck around like a ragdoll, then knock him/her to ground, then watch as little Ryder curls up in a fetal position and start sucking their thumb. Again... your Shepard is dead or existing in an alternate reality along with all of mine.. We're talking about Bioware's canon Shepard. The moment Bioware writes the sequel, anything you did creating "your Shepard" gets left on the cutting room floor. You may or may not like the "new Shepard" they resurrect. Writing the story forward yourself in any way, shape or form at this point is a total waste of time... it's an "alternate reality." Not sure I entirely agree. There has to be some allowances, like which squadmates survived, who you romanced, the fate of the krogan and rachni (both of which could be around, after a fashion, so long as it's not too far into the future) and so forth.
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2019 15:26:25 GMT
And I say that Voyager is a crappy example for your point because as a spin-off, there was no reason to say it's not Star Trek. It fits directly into the DS9 season that was on at the time.
The Andromeda Initiative as described to have been carried out in the 2170s and 80s did not fit into the ME universe of the time. Therefore, I completely get lakus' argument of saying it would have been better off not being part of ME in the first place but something independent.
That part of the argument has always been a bit weak. The ODSY drive doesn't violate any known physical principles in the MEU -- it does what Reapers can do, only not quite as well. Inventing the drive in the mid-2170s is late enough for the structure of MW colonization to not have significantly changed from how the trilogy presents things. The Nexus is a bit much to swallow. OTOH, the Cerberus base is both huge and, apparently, mobile, so there's precedent. The really hard part is explaining why the SR-1 and SR-2 wouldn't have had the new-style drive. Not to mention there was absolutely no indication that anything like the ODSY drives exist in the ME setting or that there was any inclination to develop them. Quite the opposite in fact. The galaxy totally relied on the relay network. And this, I suspect was deliberate on the part of the Reapers: " Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire" The relay network is left in place deliberately to keep the galaxy dependent on this mode of travel, and to keep organic life trapped in the box for easy harvesting. But then come along superspecial humanity who, within a single generation of being on the galactic stage, with their can-do spirit and indomitable will, develop a technology that renders the Reaper's billion-year old system that hasn't once failed totally obsolete
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Post by AnDromedary on May 1, 2019 15:41:26 GMT
The "physics" of ODSY are not and never were the issue. The issue is that it invalidates a lot of essential premises that were necessary for the trilogy plot to function. Why did we need the mu relay to get to Illos? Because there were no viable routes with discharge sites to get there otherwise, despite the fact that expeditions did try in the past. Why can't we just hide from the reapers, somewhere where there are no relays? Because we have a lot of trouble getting there. Hell, if the arks can just fly FTL for 630 years, we could ahve done the same in the MW, fly in circles and never be caught because not even the reapers can track us in FTL. Or what about the star kid? The entire premise of the cycles depends on the fact that our galaxy is an isolated system. If we can just fly in between galaxies and if the take-over of AIs is basically inevitable in any of them, then all the cycles do is to stagnate the milky way until an outside AI invader with a billion years of extra evolution rolls over us (reapers included). Why wouldn't Shepard throw that one at the catalyst?
There is much more to say, about ODSY and all the other issues. I have written a lot of posts about this back in the day and I'm not going to repeat all of it here. Suffice it to say that Andromeda is a mess.
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2019 15:50:28 GMT
The "physics" of ODSY are not and never were the issue. The issue is that it invalidates a lot of essential premises that were necessary for the trilogy plot to function. Why did we need the mu relay to get to Illos? Because there were no viable routes with discharge sites to get there otherwise, despite the fact that expeditions did try in the past. Why can't we just hide from the reapers, somewhere where there are no relays? Because we have a lot of trouble getting there. Hell, if the arks can just fly FTL for 630 years, we could ahve done the same in the MW, fly in circles and never be caught because not even the reapers can track us in FTL. Or what about the star kid? The entire premise of the cycles depends on the fact that our galaxy is an isolated system. If we can just fly in between galaxies and if the take-over of AIs is basically inevitable in any of them, then all the cycles do is to stagnate the milky way until an outside AI invader with a billion years of extra evolution rolls over us (reapers included). Why wouldn't Shepard throw that one at the catalyst? There is much more to say, about ODSY and all the other issues. I have written a lot of posts about this back in the day and I'm not going to repeat all of it here. Suffice it to say that Andromeda is a mess.
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Post by alanc9 on May 1, 2019 16:35:14 GMT
That part of the argument has always been a bit weak. The ODSY drive doesn't violate any known physical principles in the MEU -- it does what Reapers can do, only not quite as well. Inventing the drive in the mid-2170s is late enough for the structure of MW colonization to not have significantly changed from how the trilogy presents things. The Nexus is a bit much to swallow. OTOH, the Cerberus base is both huge and, apparently, mobile, so there's precedent. The really hard part is explaining why the SR-1 and SR-2 wouldn't have had the new-style drive. Not to mention there was absolutely no indication that anything like the ODSY drives exist in the ME setting or that there was any inclination to develop them. Quite the opposite in fact. The galaxy totally relied on the relay network. You'd still use the network even with ODSY drives. Taking several years to fly between clusters won't ever be economically feasible even if technically possible. The ODSY drive, remember, doesn't make bypassing the relay network possible, because it was always possible. Fuel scooping and drive charge dumping are things in the MEU and always have been. Going from, say, three years down to one year for a hypothetical off-network trip will never be competitive against a relay network which can accomplish the same trip in seconds.
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2019 20:39:22 GMT
Not to mention there was absolutely no indication that anything like the ODSY drives exist in the ME setting or that there was any inclination to develop them. Quite the opposite in fact. The galaxy totally relied on the relay network. You'd still use the network even with ODSY drives. Taking several years to fly between clusters won't ever be economically feasible even if technically possible. The ODSY drive, remember, doesn't make bypassing the relay network possible, because it was always possible. Fuel scooping and drive charge dumping are things in the MEU and always have been. Going from, say, three years down to one year for a hypothetical off-network trip will never be competitive against a relay network which can accomplish the same trip in seconds. Given how rare garden worlds are supposed to be, I question that. If they could find habitable worlds off the relay network, you can bet ODSY drives would have been both developed AND used.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 4, 2019 23:06:12 GMT
The "physics" of ODSY are not and never were the issue. The issue is that it invalidates a lot of essential premises that were necessary for the trilogy plot to function. Why did we need the mu relay to get to Illos? Because there were no viable routes with discharge sites to get there otherwise, despite the fact that expeditions did try in the past. or maybe because it would take too long to get there without the relay. Whether there are viable routes is AFAIK, unknown since the route would go through uncharted space. IIRC, the Citadel's typical resident population is ~ 13M, and the migrant fleet is composed of some 50K ships carrying 17M passengers. Earth's population was listed as 11B. I've no idea what kind of populations the other planets or colonies held, but it was said that trillions of lives were at stake. How are you going to build and supply enough ships to accommodate that many people for centuries? The Andromeda Initiative was a massive undertaking, but it took only 100K people and they were in stasis during the trip. I remember thinking the quarians picked a helluva time to try to re-take Rannoch, and that they'd be better off staying with the fleet. Other people argued that their ships were already really old and in need of repairs and maintenance. I'm quite curious about the Jardaan. Could an ultra-evolved species eventually die out on their own?
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Post by Polka Dot on May 4, 2019 23:20:43 GMT
The really hard part is explaining why the SR-1 and SR-2 wouldn't have had the new-style drive. But why would they? The Normandy needs a fast, nimble drive that works with its stealth system. Existing cargo, transport, and military ships operate only in charted space and use the relay network. There may be some deep space exploration probes out there with ODSY drives mapping uncharted areas and dropping comm buoys to relay the info they gather. I'd be surprised if there weren't.
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