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Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2019 19:46:58 GMT
True enough. But like a shot of morphine, it eased the pain for a lot of people while not actually doing anything to address the overall problem. As effective as treating a bullet wound with a band aid.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on May 10, 2019 20:32:31 GMT
True enough. But like a shot of morphine, it eased the pain for a lot of people while not actually doing anything to address the overall problem. As effective as treating a bullet wound with a band aid. For you. Many peoples only complaints about ME3 is the ending didn’t give the characters a good enough send off. That stupid DLC solved that for them. I don’t get it, but piles of people seem to have thought that.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2019 21:58:02 GMT
A lot of people liked it. It still didn't fix the problem with ME3. Many peoples only complaints about ME3 is the ending didn’t give the characters a good enough send off. That stupid DLC solved that for them. Judging from how the general gaming public is treating Bioware, I'd argue a lot of people are still very mad about something and I'm going to guess that character send off isn't exactly it. Or maybe it still is, in part.
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Post by Iakus on May 10, 2019 22:04:15 GMT
A lot of people liked it. It still didn't fix the problem with ME3. Many peoples only complaints about ME3 is the ending didn’t give the characters a good enough send off. That stupid DLC solved that for them. Judging from how the general gaming public is treating Bioware, I'd argue a lot of people are still very mad about something and I'm going to guess that character send off isn't exactly it. Or maybe it still is, in part. I think the lack of a proper send-off was part of it. But only a part.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2019 22:19:45 GMT
I think the lack of a proper send-off was part of it. But only a part. Then breaking characterization and making memes after memes in the Citadel DLC shouldn't have helped at all.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on May 10, 2019 22:20:54 GMT
A lot of people liked it. It still didn't fix the problem with ME3. Many peoples only complaints about ME3 is the ending didn’t give the characters a good enough send off. That stupid DLC solved that for them. Judging from how the general gaming public is treating Bioware, I'd argue a lot of people are still very mad about something and I'm going to guess that character send off isn't exactly it. Or maybe it still is, in part. Eh I remember the original BioWare boards around this time. It went everyone mad to like 1/2 mad after the extended cut, to less mad and quite a few happy after citadel. I thought both did nothing for fixing core issues to the endings and game, but I became the minority on that. A loud minority but the minority.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2019 22:41:23 GMT
Eh I remember the original BioWare boards around this time. It went everyone mad to like 1/2 mad after the extended cut, to less mad and quite a few happy after citadel. I thought both did nothing for fixing core issues to the endings and game, but I became the minority on that. A loud minority but the minority. Or, possibly, most people gave up on the forums, because they got tired of waiting or saw nothing of value was being added and left. Rest assured, though, people will still carry the grudge, the divide in the fanbase is real and simply driving it away from one place on to the next, won't stop it from existing. It hasn't stopped for at least 7 years now, it's not going to go away any time soon.
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Post by Iakus on May 11, 2019 0:56:51 GMT
I think the lack of a proper send-off was part of it. But only a part. Then breaking characterization and making memes after memes in the Citadel DLC shouldn't have helped at all. After the unrelenting grimdark that was ME3, the "you're too stupid to understand our genius" Extended Cut, not to mention the railroaded idiocy of Shepard and Insane Troll Logic of Starbrat, some people were desperate for any bit of humor or silliness, no matter how poorly placed. Heck there's at least one mod out there designed to make Citadel the "real" ending of the game. Makes it playable after the ending and removes any mention of an ongoing Reaper war. Essentially turning the dlc into a victory celebration. Stupid? Sure, but again, a shot of morphine to make you forget your arm's been chopped off.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on May 11, 2019 0:57:37 GMT
Eh I remember the original BioWare boards around this time. It went everyone mad to like 1/2 mad after the extended cut, to less mad and quite a few happy after citadel. I thought both did nothing for fixing core issues to the endings and game, but I became the minority on that. A loud minority but the minority. Or, possibly, most people gave up on the forums, because they got tired of waiting or saw nothing of value was being added and left. Rest assured, though, people will still carry the grudge, the divide in the fanbase is real and simply driving it away from one place on to the next, won't stop it from existing. It hasn't stopped for at least 7 years now, it's not going to go away any time soon. Damn right. I still hold a grudge, even if I understand why Citadel is so beloved.
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Post by garrusfan1 on May 11, 2019 1:10:45 GMT
Eh I remember the original BioWare boards around this time. It went everyone mad to like 1/2 mad after the extended cut, to less mad and quite a few happy after citadel. I thought both did nothing for fixing core issues to the endings and game, but I became the minority on that. A loud minority but the minority. Or, possibly, most people gave up on the forums, because they got tired of waiting or saw nothing of value was being added and left. Rest assured, though, people will still carry the grudge, the divide in the fanbase is real and simply driving it away from one place on to the next, won't stop it from existing. It hasn't stopped for at least 7 years now, it's not going to go away any time soon. How many people were on the old BSN? was it even ten thousand? They sold over a million copies of andromeda if I remember right and probably made a good profit on anthem as well. So I would say the fanbase over all forgot or bought it anyway. I hate the ME3 ending and have complained about it for years. I liked andromeda but it had ALOT of problems and I said it was nowhere near as good as the trilogy pre ending. I never played anthem because it didn't appeal to me so I can't comment on it. However I think people confuse the internet with real people. It's for the most part a vocal minority where as the majority don't care. How many articles have you seen where somewhere in the title it says "twitter blows up".
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Post by garrusfan1 on May 11, 2019 1:11:34 GMT
Or, possibly, most people gave up on the forums, because they got tired of waiting or saw nothing of value was being added and left. Rest assured, though, people will still carry the grudge, the divide in the fanbase is real and simply driving it away from one place on to the next, won't stop it from existing. It hasn't stopped for at least 7 years now, it's not going to go away any time soon. Damn right. I still hold a grudge, even if I understand why Citadel is so beloved. I loved citadel but it didn't make up for the ending.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 11, 2019 8:09:12 GMT
Stupid? Sure, but again, a shot of morphine to make you forget your arm's been chopped off. Not stupid, but fake. Damn right. I still hold a grudge, even if I understand why Citadel is so beloved. You are just one example of many I have come across. How many people were on the old BSN? was it even ten thousand? Sure, but these people were influencers. When DA:O released, it sold OK for a Bioware opening, but it kept selling consistently, to the point that, in 10 weeks, it had sold around 2 million copies and that had nothing to do with EA marketing, just people spreading around a good word for a good game. DA2 had a stronger opening week and then sales fell off a cliff, barely passing 1 million copies in the 10 week timeframe. You are also disregarding other online communities that had their own Bioware followings and were equally vocal, just not on BSN. They sold over a million copies of andromeda Great. It sold just as much as DA2, with 4 times the development time. probably made a good profit on anthem as well Apparently, Inside Gaming have been tracking reports of Anthem sales and have come to the conclusion of a 3-3.6 million copies sold, both digital and physical, so its actually even less than what I was told. By all accounts, it sold well in its first week and then fell off a cliff as well. And while 3 million copies sold would be an otherwise great number, not for EA though, the game had received an amazing marketing campaign, I've seen pictures of Anthem taking up every billboard in Times Square and I heard people say that those where there for a like a whole month before release. With a seven year development cycle and the marketing campaign behind it, the return of investment was probably minimal for Anthem. Also, the bad press Anthem has generated post launch, definitely not worth it. It's for the most part a vocal minority where as the majority don't care I disagree. I think there was a solid fanbase that promoted these games, putting in good words, spreading the word around and getting these games noticed, more than people think they did. Now these same people, that used to be your BDF, are gone and have either gone silent or are very vocal about the shortcomings of newer Bioware games. This divide in the fanbase started as a wound, that was allowed, if not encouraged, to grow and in the past few years, it has started to fester. If it is not treated, it will eventually kill Bioware. We have reached a critical point and I'm quite curious if Bioware is even aware of what's going on, let alone having a plan to handle it.
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Post by themikefest on May 11, 2019 11:30:14 GMT
You mean the fanservice pandering of stuff like the Citadel DLC? Citadel wouldn't have been needed or wanted if they hadn't f*cked up ME3 to begin with. Remember on the old BSN somone created a thread asking what people would like for a dlc before Citadel was announced? I posted that I would like to have a crucible dlc. Even today I would have preferred having a dlc like that instead of having Citadel even though the dlc was ok.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 11, 2019 11:53:28 GMT
I posted that I would like to have a crucible dlc. Even today I would have preferred having a dlc like that instead of having Citadel Like touring the Crucible and checking its insides? Or a DLC addressing the Crucible firing options?
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Post by themikefest on May 11, 2019 12:20:05 GMT
I posted that I would like to have a crucible dlc. Even today I would have preferred having a dlc like that instead of having Citadel Like touring the Crucible and checking its insides? Or a DLC addressing the Crucible firing options? Learning the origins of the plans.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 11, 2019 12:36:39 GMT
Learning the origins of the plans. Would we also learn the lack of a user friendly UI for the Crucible? Oh, yeah, you can definitely fire this puppy up. Gotta die first, thoughI mean, what manner of engineer designed this? The creator of Kagero: Deception?
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Post by Sondergaard on May 11, 2019 22:28:26 GMT
Like touring the Crucible and checking its insides? Or a DLC addressing the Crucible firing options? Learning the origins of the plans. That's what ME2 should have been about. Finding a way to stop the Reapers, not farting about with Collectors, with the Crucible plans the reward for the Suicide Mission.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 11, 2019 22:43:58 GMT
That's what ME2 should have been about. Finding a way to stop the Reapers, not farting about with Collectors, with the Crucible plans the reward for the Suicide Mission. What would that leave for ME3, then?
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Post by themikefest on May 11, 2019 22:54:03 GMT
Learning the origins of the plans. That's what ME2 should have been about. Finding a way to stop the Reapers, not farting about with Collectors, with the Crucible plans the reward for the Suicide Mission. Would not have been hard.
1) I would have had a mission to investigate the weapon that created the Great Rift and knocked out the derelict reaper. Have A/K join Shepard. On the planet, they encounter wildlife they have to deal with. They find the weapon, at least what's left of it. It's massive. While searching, an underground bunker is located. Inside, plans are found which seem to be for the weapon outside. The plans could be an early version of the crucible.
2) During the suicide mission, there is a secret area that can be explored. Shepard finds plans for something that might help. They're downloaded onto the omni tool. When Shepard gets back to Earth, he/she passes the plans to Hackett who has people decipher them.
3) Anderson or Hackett asks t'soni to checkout the ruins on Mars to see if she can find anything. Don't know why that wasn't asked after the events of ME1 and/or after the SR1 was destroyed.
4) Keep the collectors in the game, but have them as a long side mission. The plot for ME2 is to head to darkspace to locate where the reapers hibernate for 50,000 years and to find out if there's anything that may give a clue as to destroying the reapers.
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Post by garrusfan1 on May 11, 2019 23:04:07 GMT
That's what ME2 should have been about. Finding a way to stop the Reapers, not farting about with Collectors, with the Crucible plans the reward for the Suicide Mission. What would that leave for ME3, then? twenty hours of kai leng most likely.
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Post by Sondergaard on May 11, 2019 23:20:02 GMT
That's what ME2 should have been about. Finding a way to stop the Reapers, not farting about with Collectors, with the Crucible plans the reward for the Suicide Mission. What would that leave for ME3, then? A better story that followed on naturally from ME2. Preferably without Cerberus.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 11, 2019 23:35:50 GMT
twenty hours of kai leng most likely. A better story that followed on naturally from ME2. Preferably without Cerberus. Well, if you found the Crucible plans in ME2 then you'd have the weapon ready, by the time the Reapers reached the Milky Way, so all you'd have to do is fire it. That would end the Reaper threat and then what? I mean, that would be anticlimactic as fuck and would leave the rest of the game empty. I'd probably still have preferred that to the ME3 we got, but I don't think it would have gone that well, at the time.
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Post by themikefest on May 11, 2019 23:50:56 GMT
Why would finding the plans ME2 lead to having the device ready to be used? Have it where it takes a lot of time to decipher the plans and to build it. The other thing is they have to convince the council that the Citadel is needed to use the device. Without any proof the reapers are on their way or when they will show up, they would likely deny having the device dock with the Citadel. Since no one knows when the reapers show up, have it where they learn the details of the plans and start building it just as the reapers show up.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 12, 2019 0:00:51 GMT
Why would finding the plans ME2 lead to having the device ready to be used? Have it where it takes a lot of time to decipher the plans and to build it. The other thing is they have to convince the council that the Citadel is needed to use the device. Without any proof the reapers are on their way or when they will show up, they would likely deny having the device dock with the Citadel. Since no one knows when the reapers show up, have it where they learn the details of the plans and start building it just as the reapers show up. So, basically, the same ME3 we got the first time, excluding Mars.
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Post by themikefest on May 12, 2019 0:15:53 GMT
Why would finding the plans ME2 lead to having the device ready to be used? Have it where it takes a lot of time to decipher the plans and to build it. The other thing is they have to convince the council that the Citadel is needed to use the device. Without any proof the reapers are on their way or when they will show up, they would likely deny having the device dock with the Citadel. Since no one knows when the reapers show up, have it where they learn the details of the plans and start building it just as the reapers show up. So, basically, the same ME3 we got the first time, excluding Mars. You did say what would that leave ME3, right?
Mars still can be included. Have it where t'soni is there trying to find any information that would explain how to use the device once it's docked with the Citadel.
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