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Post by ahglock on Mar 7, 2020 2:29:32 GMT
Then slow down? I mean come out of light speed a bit out of the solar system, heck come to a complete stop. Scan things. Send some Fighters to scout. Then have the Hyperion move ahead. slow down? How fast is a ship moving after using a relay vs a ship coming out of ftl? Why I ask? Look at ME3. All those ships used the relay to head to Earth. Within a very short time, fighters are seen attacking. They were deployed right after the carrier used the relay. So why couldn't the Hyperion do the same? I don't know if it was ever mention how many fighters on the ship, but a couple could stay with the ship while a few scout ahead. How hard is that? The issue I have is when the player is introduced to Kosta on the shuttle heading to Habitat 7. Having the pathfinder team and fighter pilots wake up a few days before arrival so they can do equipment checks, run over a few scenarios of what to do, and just get the kinks out your body after traveling for so long. Once the ship arrives, and out of ftl, the fighters are deployed with the pathfinder team on standby just in case they are needed. Lets say they were able to avoid the scourge. What would that mean? It would remove the reason why the sibling isn't able to join the team. That could be easily fixed by having that sibling complaining of dizziness, and a few other symptoms that would prevent him/her from joining the team. I agree. I'm just rolling with the argument that the hyperion is moving stupid fast when it comes out of FTL, and saying even if that is true they would have options. Like just slow down, or come out of FTL still in dark space a few days out and cautiously enter the galaxy. Send out scouts while still far out. Dropping out of FTL when almost right on top of the planet, with your teams having like a 30 minute lead time seems silly. But, that was pretty much the entire plot of MEA, a series of idiot ball transfers in order to give the player something to fix.
And yeah the sibling could have been benched for a variety of reasons, stasis sickness, maybe injured during a drill.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 12:45:42 GMT
slow down? How fast is a ship moving after using a relay vs a ship coming out of ftl? Why I ask? Look at ME3. All those ships used the relay to head to Earth. Within a very short time, fighters are seen attacking. They were deployed right after the carrier used the relay. So why couldn't the Hyperion do the same? I don't know if it was ever mention how many fighters on the ship, but a couple could stay with the ship while a few scout ahead. How hard is that? The issue I have is when the player is introduced to Kosta on the shuttle heading to Habitat 7. Having the pathfinder team and fighter pilots wake up a few days before arrival so they can do equipment checks, run over a few scenarios of what to do, and just get the kinks out your body after traveling for so long. Once the ship arrives, and out of ftl, the fighters are deployed with the pathfinder team on standby just in case they are needed. Lets say they were able to avoid the scourge. What would that mean? It would remove the reason why the sibling isn't able to join the team. That could be easily fixed by having that sibling complaining of dizziness, and a few other symptoms that would prevent him/her from joining the team. I agree. I'm just rolling with the argument that the hyperion is moving stupid fast when it comes out of FTL, and saying even if that is true they would have options. Like just slow down, or come out of FTL still in dark space a few days out and cautiously enter the galaxy. Send out scouts while still far out. Dropping out of FTL when almost right on top of the planet, with your teams having like a 30 minute lead time seems silly. But, that was pretty much the entire plot of MEA, a series of idiot ball transfers in order to give the player something to fix.
And yeah the sibling could have been benched for a variety of reasons, stasis sickness, maybe injured during a drill.
You're pulling the '30 minutes of lead time" out of your arse. We don't know how much time transpired between when we see the ships come out of FTL and when we see Scott wake up. Medical teams were awakened before the pathfinder team and we don't know how long it takes to actually wake someone up from start to finish. It could take several hours.
Again, the ship has traversed 634 years worth of space relying on its sensors. Visuals in space are not effective (per ME1). Scout ships would be a waste of time since their sensors would not detect anything that Hyperion's would not and the pilots would not be able to spot anything at an effective enough distance to matter.
As for sub-light speeds in space... We are shown ships coming out of FTL at the Charon Relay, which is NOT in orbit around earth. It's distance from earth is significant (5.1723 billion kms), yet the fleet covers that distance in a very short time... so, they are still moving "stupid fast." It takes a fair bit of time (it would take roughly 35 minutes at light speed) to get the crucible to dock with the Citadel and Hackett describes how vulnerable it is because it moves so slowly. Slowing down is not a great idea.
What if an attack on Hyperion came from the rear by some alien species that sensed when they came out of FTL and decided to ambush them from behind? With your "scout ship" suggestion, the Hyperion would be a sitting duck - fighters deployed chasing mythical "birds in the bush" ahead that they could not see or sense any better than Hyperion, while Hyperion sits stalled in space waiting for them to return... all because a fan doesn't like that Ryder and Kosta first introduced themselves to each other on the shuttle... which was merely a writing device to introduce the character to the player... and it would not make much difference at all to the story if they introduced themselves earlier or, like Cora, the dialogue instead indicated to us that they already knew each other.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 7, 2020 13:36:03 GMT
Would have been better if those Arks had a small escort/defense fleet inside those ships, ready to deploy. But... Mass Effect doesn't do military logic, only the Rule of Kool. There is nothing wrong with the Rule of Kool. I love it and Mass Effect and Sci Fi does need the Rule of Cool to keep the fiction element Yeah that's I think the primary reason why they didit tha tway asme as why thing swere done in the wa ythey were doine in the trilogy as we;l fo rthe dramatic effect. The games and stories wouldn't be where they are without it.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 7, 2020 15:50:26 GMT
But, that was pretty much the entire plot of MEA, a series of idiot ball transfers in order to give the player something to fix. Why would that be any different from the trilogy?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 7, 2020 17:49:09 GMT
But, that was pretty much the entire plot of MEA, a series of idiot ball transfers in order to give the player something to fix. Why would that be any different from the trilogy? I tisn't as near as I can tell.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 7, 2020 20:57:57 GMT
It takes a fair bit of time (it would take roughly 35 minutes at light speed) to get the crucible to dock with the Citadel and Hackett describes how vulnerable it is because it moves so slowly. Slowing down is not a great idea. Can you post a link of Hackett describing that?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 21:51:48 GMT
It takes a fair bit of time (it would take roughly 35 minutes at light speed) to get the crucible to dock with the Citadel and Hackett describes how vulnerable it is because it moves so slowly. Slowing down is not a great idea. Can you post a link of Hackett describing that? He clearly tells Shepard that "The Crucible won't stay safe for long once we begin the attack."
Then later, when talking with Anderson and Shepard just before launching the attack: "Once we see those arms, Shield Fleet will escort The Crucible to the Citadel. But timing will be critical. We don't have enough fire power to keep the Crucible safe for long. Again, 35 minutes is the minimum at full light speed that it would take to get the Crucible from the Charon Relay to the Citadel orbiting earth... so put 2 and 2 together. An entire Alliance fleet of warships is said to have difficulty keeping one large object safe for all of 35 minutes (best case). The slower it moves, the longer they have to defend it.
The AI comes out of FTL as close to their destination as possible to keep the ships as safe as possible for as long as possible. They can travel at FTL way faster than any of their fighters could) unless all of them were equipped with ODSY drives (which is doubtful since Tempest is a special prototype). Once the ship drops out of FTL, an attack from any direction is possible since the ship can then most likely be detected on alien sensors. Once out of FTL, the ship would still have to move slower than the fighters to enable the fighters to get ahead of them. The sub-light speeds are still too high for a visual to be effective. By the time a pilot sees the obstacle, they've covered the distance to have hit it. The slower they go, the more vulnerable they are to other forms of attack from the rear or from their flanks.
Could they have awakened people earlier. Sure, but why do it? There is nothing that launching "scout ships" would have accomplished... other than getting a bunch of fighters stuck in the scourge as well. The problem was it wasn't visible on sensors... until they got the Tempest on Nexus after Kallo had done a bunch of learning about the "angry cloud."
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Post by themikefest on Mar 7, 2020 22:34:51 GMT
He clearly tells Shepard that "The Crucible won't stay safe for long once we begin the attack." Then later, when talking with Anderson and Shepard just before launching the attack: "Once we see those arms, Shield Fleet will escort The Crucible to the Citadel. But timing will be critical. We don't have enough fire power to keep the Crucible safe for long. Again, 35 minutes is the minimum at full light speed that it would take to get the Crucible from the Charon Relay to the Citadel orbiting earth... so put 2 and 2 together. An entire Alliance fleet of warships is said to have difficulty keeping one large object safe for all of 35 minutes (best case). The slower it moves, the longer they have to defend it. How much time was wasted for the goodbyes at the forward operating base? Shepard says to Anderson every minute wasted is more time for the reapers to gather strength. How much time was wasted after the destroyer was destroyed while Anderson moved like he was back on the block instead of moving with a purpose? How much time would have been saved if he went to the beam instead of going back to Shepard while the destroyer was dealing with Shepard? Oh that's right, he needed Shepard for the touchy-feely scene. How much time was wasted for the what-the-crap evac scene? During all that time wasted, the fleets are taking damage. Get rid of that, more ships would be available to protect the crucible. Don't know what you're saying with the 35 minute thing since the fleet doesn't come under attack until it's near Earth. Once near Earth, Hackett receives a message that someone made it. From that point on, they have to keep the crucible safe until the arms are opened. Fortunately for them, the reapers aren't a very good shot otherwise a couple shots would have destroyed the crucible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 23:00:23 GMT
He clearly tells Shepard that "The Crucible won't stay safe for long once we begin the attack." Then later, when talking with Anderson and Shepard just before launching the attack: "Once we see those arms, Shield Fleet will escort The Crucible to the Citadel. But timing will be critical. We don't have enough fire power to keep the Crucible safe for long. Again, 35 minutes is the minimum at full light speed that it would take to get the Crucible from the Charon Relay to the Citadel orbiting earth... so put 2 and 2 together. An entire Alliance fleet of warships is said to have difficulty keeping one large object safe for all of 35 minutes (best case). The slower it moves, the longer they have to defend it. How much time was wasted for the goodbyes at the forward operating base? Shepard says to Anderson every minute wasted is more time for the reapers to gather strength. How much time was wasted after the destroyer was destroyed while Anderson moved like he was back on the block instead of moving with a purpose? How much time would have been saved if he went to the beam instead of going back to Shepard while the destroyer was dealing with Shepard? Oh that's right, he needed Shepard for the touchy-feely scene. How much time was wasted for the what-the-crap evac scene? During all that time wasted, the fleets are taking damage. Get rid of that, more ships would be available to protect the crucible. Don't know what you're saying with the 35 minute thing since the fleet doesn't come under attack until it's near Earth. Once near Earth, Hackett receives a message that someone made it. From that point on, they have to keep the crucible safe until the arms are opened. Fortunately for them, the reapers aren't a very good shot otherwise a couple shots would have destroyed the crucible. It wasn;t me who brought up the momentum thing upon exiting the Charon relay... which is the context under which this discussion is based. We see the fleets exit the Charon relay and they appear to drop out of FTL immediately (since they become visible). I did make a math error... at light speed, it takes 35 * 8.3 minutes to get from Pluto to Earth (I forgot to multiply the AUs by 8). Still, as you say, it doesn't come under attack until it gets close to earth. Still, Hackett says "once we see those arms"... "timing will be critical, we don't have enough fire power to keep the Crucible safe for long." It's vulnerable... and Hyperion would be vulnerable in the same way traveling at sub-light speeds.
You're focusing on a threat ahead, when ahead is not necessarily where the threat would come from.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 8, 2020 1:57:10 GMT
He clearly tells Shepard that "The Crucible won't stay safe for long once we begin the attack." Then later, when talking with Anderson and Shepard just before launching the attack: "Once we see those arms, Shield Fleet will escort The Crucible to the Citadel. But timing will be critical. We don't have enough fire power to keep the Crucible safe for long. Again, 35 minutes is the minimum at full light speed that it would take to get the Crucible from the Charon Relay to the Citadel orbiting earth... so put 2 and 2 together. An entire Alliance fleet of warships is said to have difficulty keeping one large object safe for all of 35 minutes (best case). The slower it moves, the longer they have to defend it. How much time was wasted for the goodbyes at the forward operating base? Shepard says to Anderson every minute wasted is more time for the reapers to gather strength. How much time was wasted after the destroyer was destroyed while Anderson moved like he was back on the block instead of moving with a purpose? How much time would have been saved if he went to the beam instead of going back to Shepard while the destroyer was dealing with Shepard? Oh that's right, he needed Shepard for the touchy-feely scene. How much time was wasted for the what-the-crap evac scene? During all that time wasted, the fleets are taking damage. Get rid of that, more ships would be available to protect the crucible. Don't know what you're saying with the 35 minute thing since the fleet doesn't come under attack until it's near Earth. Once near Earth, Hackett receives a message that someone made it. From that point on, they have to keep the crucible safe until the arms are opened. Fortunately for them, the reapers aren't a very good shot otherwise a couple shots would have destroyed the crucible. Oh man, I can imagine how much less I’d like the game if I couldn’t take the time for the farewell dialogues, particularly Javik’s.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 8, 2020 3:33:01 GMT
Oh man, I can imagine how much less I’d like the game if I couldn’t take the time for the farewell dialogues, particularly Javik’s. As I've said many times before about this. Have them on the Normandy just like the crew had their goodbyes.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 8, 2020 7:17:38 GMT
Oh man, I can imagine how much less I’d like the game if I couldn’t take the time for the farewell dialogues, particularly Javik’s. As I've said many times before about this. Have them on the Normandy just like the crew had their goodbyes. That’s where I have to disagree. I don’t believe the Normandy really works here, especially for certain scenes. I don’t think the final dialogues would have been as effective without the dire backdrop and the view of the beam off in the distance. The Normandy pickup at the beam run is pretty oddly placed, but it’s only there because of the fact that everyone mysteriously teleports to the Normandy in the first place.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 8, 2020 11:49:22 GMT
That’s where I have to disagree. I don’t believe the Normandy really works here, especially for certain scenes. I don’t think the final dialogues would have been as effective without the dire backdrop and the view of the beam off in the distance. I disagree with your disagree. If the goodbyes are done on the Normandy, the effectiveness of the dialogue would be similar if they're done just before the fleets use the relay. Javik can see all the fleets ready to head out saying everyone is together to fight the reapers and there's likely to be a tomorrow. It's crap. The dialogue choices are crap. Shepard says you're in no condition to fight. Get to the med bay. Why? Throughout the trilogy, Shepard is able to use medigel to heal a squadmate. The other option is having Shepard saying, I need to know someone will survive. What? You don't stop the reapers no one will survive. What I would have done is Shepard tells the squadmates to stay put, then they call for a shuttle once the area clears. As the shuttle shows up, one of the squadmates looks back to see Shepard going up the beam with Anderson a few steps behind. What that does is give confirmation that someone did make it up to the Citadel instead of some message Hackett receives after the player hears over the comms that no one made it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 13:57:24 GMT
That’s where I have to disagree. I don’t believe the Normandy really works here, especially for certain scenes. I don’t think the final dialogues would have been as effective without the dire backdrop and the view of the beam off in the distance. I disagree with your disagree. If the goodbyes are done on the Normandy, the effectiveness of the dialogue would be similar if they're done just before the fleets use the relay. Javik can see all the fleets ready to head out saying everyone is together to fight the reapers and there's likely to be a tomorrow. It's crap. The dialogue choices are crap. Shepard says you're in no condition to fight. Get to the med bay. Why? Throughout the trilogy, Shepard is able to use medigel to heal a squadmate. The other option is having Shepard saying, I need to know someone will survive. What? You don't stop the reapers no one will survive. What I would have done is Shepard tells the squadmates to stay put, then they call for a shuttle once the area clears. As the shuttle shows up, one of the squadmates looks back to see Shepard going up the beam with Anderson a few steps behind. What that does is give confirmation that someone did make it up to the Citadel instead of some message Hackett receives after the player hears over the comms that no one made it. I like the placement of the goodbyes. I would have liked for everyone to have been at the FOB in person instead...then it just seems like Shepard to bump into them while walking from the shuttle to HQ to speak with Anderson... and there would be no appearance of wasting time since, even in a rush, it would be reasonable for Shepard to stop briefly to talk with people when walking right by them. As a bonus, they could have given Shepard the opportunity to pick his final squad from members of the ME2 as well (not because it would be great procedure, but to pander to those who felt ME2 squads were unjustly shunted aside. Samantha could have also been at the FOV setting up or trouble-shooting the comms. LI's could then have each had a "final kiss" version, much like that given to Ashley or Kaidan (scenes I particularly love that are more impactful because they are standing amid the rubble of London at the time). Of course, a dick Shepard would still have the option to not talk to anyone, just as he/she does right now.
I agree with your comments about the Normandy pickup. It should never have been added. Instead, I would have had Normandy crash on earth... with no sign of anyone leaving the ship. Fade to black. End of ME3, unknown who survived, if anyone; and unknown what battlefield they were on at the end of the final battle. The fate of Shepard's two squadmates also being unknown... never shown whether or not they survived Harbinger's blast. Then, with this "no closure" cliffhanger ending... they should have just ended the franchise... abandoned like people want them to abandon ME:A's story midstream.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 8, 2020 20:24:39 GMT
That’s where I have to disagree. I don’t believe the Normandy really works here, especially for certain scenes. I don’t think the final dialogues would have been as effective without the dire backdrop and the view of the beam off in the distance. I disagree with your disagree. If the goodbyes are done on the Normandy, the effectiveness of the dialogue would be similar if they're done just before the fleets use the relay. Javik can see all the fleets ready to head out saying everyone is together to fight the reapers and there's likely to be a tomorrow. It's crap. The dialogue choices are crap. Shepard says you're in no condition to fight. Get to the med bay. Why? Throughout the trilogy, Shepard is able to use medigel to heal a squadmate. The other option is having Shepard saying, I need to know someone will survive. What? You don't stop the reapers no one will survive. What I would have done is Shepard tells the squadmates to stay put, then they call for a shuttle once the area clears. As the shuttle shows up, one of the squadmates looks back to see Shepard going up the beam with Anderson a few steps behind. What that does is give confirmation that someone did make it up to the Citadel instead of some message Hackett receives after the player hears over the comms that no one made it. It really just comes down to personal preference and how the imagery affects the gravity of the conversation. There’s a sense of finality in actually being in the ruins of London that the Normandy just wouldn’t capture, so to each his own I guess. Doesn’t really matter why the Normandy scene doesn’t work, because it’s just a bandaid over a gaping wound that is the entire final cutscene. I’m guessing that it was easier to just tack on that extra scene than rework the entire final sequence.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 8, 2020 20:28:16 GMT
I disagree with your disagree. If the goodbyes are done on the Normandy, the effectiveness of the dialogue would be similar if they're done just before the fleets use the relay. Javik can see all the fleets ready to head out saying everyone is together to fight the reapers and there's likely to be a tomorrow. It's crap. The dialogue choices are crap. Shepard says you're in no condition to fight. Get to the med bay. Why? Throughout the trilogy, Shepard is able to use medigel to heal a squadmate. The other option is having Shepard saying, I need to know someone will survive. What? You don't stop the reapers no one will survive. What I would have done is Shepard tells the squadmates to stay put, then they call for a shuttle once the area clears. As the shuttle shows up, one of the squadmates looks back to see Shepard going up the beam with Anderson a few steps behind. What that does is give confirmation that someone did make it up to the Citadel instead of some message Hackett receives after the player hears over the comms that no one made it. I like the placement of the goodbyes. I would have liked for everyone to have been at the FOB in person instead...then it just seems like Shepard to bump into them while walking from the shuttle to HQ to speak with Anderson... and there would be no appearance of wasting time since, even in a rush, it would be reasonable for Shepard to stop briefly to talk with people when walking right by them. As a bonus, they could have given Shepard the opportunity to pick his final squad from members of the ME2 as well (not because it would be great procedure, but to pander to those who felt ME2 squads were unjustly shunted aside. Samantha could have also been at the FOV setting up or trouble-shooting the comms. LI's could then have each had a "final kiss" version, much like that given to Ashley or Kaidan (scenes I particularly love that are more impactful because they are standing amid the rubble of London at the time). Of course, a dick Shepard would still have the option to not talk to anyone, just as he/she does right now.
I agree with your comments about the Normandy pickup. It should never have been added. Instead, I would have had Normandy crash on earth... with no sign of anyone leaving the ship. Fade to black. End of ME3, unknown who survived, if anyone; and unknown what battlefield they were on at the end of the final battle. The fate of Shepard's two squadmates also being unknown... never shown whether or not they survived Harbinger's blast. Then, with this "no closure" cliffhanger ending... they should have just ended the franchise... abandoned like people want them to abandon ME:A's story midstream.
I don’t really know the ins and outs of how these reworks truly function, but I’m guessing they were trying to work around the present framework of the original ending, that being the Normandy crashing on some weird planet regardless. I don’t think the Normandy should have crashed at all. I mean, it’s the fastest ship in the fleet, yet these slow ass Alliance cruisers somehow make it ok. If anything, the Normandy should have been one of the ships that made it to the rendezvous point, but again, this would require replacing the entire final animation sequence on top of the supplemental material added for the extended cut slides. The overly ambiguous ending was basically the main thing that made me hate the ending so much. If it stayed like that, I would have simply abandoned the MET for good.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 21:26:24 GMT
I like the placement of the goodbyes. I would have liked for everyone to have been at the FOB in person instead...then it just seems like Shepard to bump into them while walking from the shuttle to HQ to speak with Anderson... and there would be no appearance of wasting time since, even in a rush, it would be reasonable for Shepard to stop briefly to talk with people when walking right by them. As a bonus, they could have given Shepard the opportunity to pick his final squad from members of the ME2 as well (not because it would be great procedure, but to pander to those who felt ME2 squads were unjustly shunted aside. Samantha could have also been at the FOV setting up or trouble-shooting the comms. LI's could then have each had a "final kiss" version, much like that given to Ashley or Kaidan (scenes I particularly love that are more impactful because they are standing amid the rubble of London at the time). Of course, a dick Shepard would still have the option to not talk to anyone, just as he/she does right now.
I agree with your comments about the Normandy pickup. It should never have been added. Instead, I would have had Normandy crash on earth... with no sign of anyone leaving the ship. Fade to black. End of ME3, unknown who survived, if anyone; and unknown what battlefield they were on at the end of the final battle. The fate of Shepard's two squadmates also being unknown... never shown whether or not they survived Harbinger's blast. Then, with this "no closure" cliffhanger ending... they should have just ended the franchise... abandoned like people want them to abandon ME:A's story midstream.
I don’t really know the ins and outs of how these reworks truly function, but I’m guessing they were trying to work around the present framework of the original ending, that being the Normandy crashing on some weird planet regardless. I don’t think the Normandy should have crashed at all. I mean, it’s the fastest ship in the fleet, yet these slow ass Alliance cruisers somehow make it ok. If anything, the Normandy should have been one of the ships that made it to the rendezvous point, but again, this would require replacing the entire final animation sequence on top of the supplemental material added for the extended cut slides. The overly ambiguous ending was basically the main thing that made me hate the ending so much. If it stayed like that, I would have simply abandoned the MET for good. What I was driving for here was an ending that clearly ended the squad and crew and Shepard. Shepard makes no decision at all because Shepard doesn't make it to the beam. If they wanted toensure that fans could feel that Shepard died a hero, then they could have had him/her get hit while managing to get Anderson to the beam. The final scene of the game would be Anderson ascending the beam and perhaps Hackett still saying "someone made it." However, what Anderson finds beyond the beam and what happens next would have been left for the next ME.
Of course, it's too late for that sort of cliffhanger lead into a next game with a new protagonist. They went with having the player decide the fate of the galaxy because they intended ME3 to be the finale for both Shepard's story and the franchise.
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Post by NotN7 on Mar 9, 2020 1:04:30 GMT
I like the placement of the goodbyes. I would have liked for everyone to have been at the FOB in person instead...then it just seems like Shepard to bump into them while walking from the shuttle to HQ to speak with Anderson... and there would be no appearance of wasting time since, even in a rush, it would be reasonable for Shepard to stop briefly to talk with people when walking right by them. As a bonus, they could have given Shepard the opportunity to pick his final squad from members of the ME2 as well (not because it would be great procedure, but to pander to those who felt ME2 squads were unjustly shunted aside. Samantha could have also been at the FOV setting up or trouble-shooting the comms. LI's could then have each had a "final kiss" version, much like that given to Ashley or Kaidan (scenes I particularly love that are more impactful because they are standing amid the rubble of London at the time). Of course, a dick Shepard would still have the option to not talk to anyone, just as he/she does right now.
I agree with your comments about the Normandy pickup. It should never have been added. Instead, I would have had Normandy crash on earth... with no sign of anyone leaving the ship. Fade to black. End of ME3, unknown who survived, if anyone; and unknown what battlefield they were on at the end of the final battle. The fate of Shepard's two squadmates also being unknown... never shown whether or not they survived Harbinger's blast. Then, with this "no closure" cliffhanger ending... they should have just ended the franchise... abandoned like people want them to abandon ME:A's story midstream.
I don’t really know the ins and outs of how these reworks truly function, but I’m guessing they were trying to work around the present framework of the original ending, that being the Normandy crashing on some weird planet regardless. I don’t think the Normandy should have crashed at all. I mean, it’s the fastest ship in the fleet, yet these slow ass Alliance cruisers somehow make it ok. If anything, the Normandy should have been one of the ships that made it to the rendezvous point, but again, this would require replacing the entire final animation sequence on top of the supplemental material added for the extended cut slides. The overly ambiguous ending was basically the main thing that made me hate the ending so much. If it stayed like that, I would have simply abandoned the MET for good. so you know the original ending was red, white, blue red destroy blue control white reapers win, the evac cut scene was the director cut because of the fall back from the original ending, and that was how did Garrus get back on the Nornandy then all went black. (sorry but willing to further explain if asked)
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 9, 2020 8:13:11 GMT
I don’t really know the ins and outs of how these reworks truly function, but I’m guessing they were trying to work around the present framework of the original ending, that being the Normandy crashing on some weird planet regardless. I don’t think the Normandy should have crashed at all. I mean, it’s the fastest ship in the fleet, yet these slow ass Alliance cruisers somehow make it ok. If anything, the Normandy should have been one of the ships that made it to the rendezvous point, but again, this would require replacing the entire final animation sequence on top of the supplemental material added for the extended cut slides. The overly ambiguous ending was basically the main thing that made me hate the ending so much. If it stayed like that, I would have simply abandoned the MET for good. What I was driving for here was an ending that clearly ended the squad and crew and Shepard. Shepard makes no decision at all because Shepard doesn't make it to the beam. If they wanted toensure that fans could feel that Shepard died a hero, then they could have had him/her get hit while managing to get Anderson to the beam. The final scene of the game would be Anderson ascending the beam and perhaps Hackett still saying "someone made it." However, what Anderson finds beyond the beam and what happens next would have been left for the next ME.
Of course, it's too late for that sort of cliffhanger lead into a next game with a new protagonist. They went with having the player decide the fate of the galaxy because they intended ME3 to be the finale for both Shepard's story and the franchise.
I can see that being pretty interesting, insofar that the nuclear fallout both online and off would be hysterical. My bitter disappointment would at least be offset by the entertainment value of the misery of the fan base. To be honest the whole heroic death thing doesn’t really affect me anymore, since it’s a trope that’s done to death. I suppose these days, an honest to goodness optimistic ending that isn’t chock full of ass-pulls can be a pretty tall order. Cynicism is our god now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 11:11:35 GMT
What I was driving for here was an ending that clearly ended the squad and crew and Shepard. Shepard makes no decision at all because Shepard doesn't make it to the beam. If they wanted toensure that fans could feel that Shepard died a hero, then they could have had him/her get hit while managing to get Anderson to the beam. The final scene of the game would be Anderson ascending the beam and perhaps Hackett still saying "someone made it." However, what Anderson finds beyond the beam and what happens next would have been left for the next ME.
Of course, it's too late for that sort of cliffhanger lead into a next game with a new protagonist. They went with having the player decide the fate of the galaxy because they intended ME3 to be the finale for both Shepard's story and the franchise.
I can see that being pretty interesting, insofar that the nuclear fallout both online and off would be hysterical. My bitter disappointment would at least be offset by the entertainment value of the misery of the fan base. To be honest the whole heroic death thing doesn’t really affect me anymore, since it’s a trope that’s done to death. I suppose these days, an honest to goodness optimistic ending that isn’t chock full of ass-pulls can be a pretty tall order. Cynicism is our god now. Awhile I go, I gave out a "peaceful ending" solution... negotiated settlement between Shepard and the Reapers... about as optimistic an ending you can get. It wasn't liked either. Shepard is in a war. ME3 is based on the concept of war. Heroic death might be an overdone trope, but it what happens in war. Totally annihilating ones enemies is not an "optimistic ending" and it is also a trope that has been done to death.
ME:A had an optimistic ending... people didn't like it either.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 9, 2020 12:07:20 GMT
I like the placement of the goodbyes. I would have liked for everyone to have been at the FOB in person instead...then it just seems like Shepard to bump into them while walking from the shuttle to HQ to speak with Anderson... and there would be no appearance of wasting time since, even in a rush, it would be reasonable for Shepard to stop briefly to talk with people when walking right by them. How long is briefly? The issue I have is while the goodbyes are happening, regardless of how briefly you want to call it, the fleets are taking damage lessening the chance of having the crucible docked with the citadel. Of course a goody-two shoe Shepard would still have the option to ignore everyone as well. After the cut was released, I came up with an alternative that centered around Steve. As folks know, talking to Steve throughout ME3, even on the Citadel, will survive in London. The shuttle crashes near the fob. He suffers minor injuries. He makes it to the base without encountering any of the uglies. While there, Shepard talks with him, a goodbye, while Cortex is being treated for his injuries. During the beam run, Cortex can see Harbinger firing it's beams of doom. Once the reaper flies away, Steve gets in the nearest shuttle to head to the beam to pick up any survivors. Both squadmates are picked up. One of the squadmates looks back at the beam in time to see Shepard go up the beam with Anderson a few steps behind. This scenario could have been used even before the cut was released. What if Cortex dies? Then have character #whatever show up instead with the shuttle. Another suggestion I had was using the conduit on Ilos. Instead of all the fleets heading to Earth, Shepard travels to Ilos, along with the ME2 squadmates, to get on the Citadel. Once they arrive, they encounter Cerberus. Cerberus already has the conduit powered up and using it. After Cerburus is taken care of, Shepard and all squadmates use the relay. Once on the Citadel, they see C-sec, Cerberus and the uglies fighting each other. This is where the player can see the citadel war assets in action. Shepard encounters Bailey who says that a guy in a fancyy suit headed in that direction. Before using the relay, Shepard informs Hackett who sends the fleets to Earth followed by the crucible. The reason why this wouldn't work is because of Anderson. He is needed on the Citadel for the touchy-feely scene.
I also created a thread asking posters what is your Priority Earth.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 9, 2020 12:18:16 GMT
I don’t really know the ins and outs of how these reworks truly function, but I’m guessing they were trying to work around the present framework of the original ending, that being the Normandy crashing on some weird planet regardless. I don’t think the Normandy should have crashed at all. I mean, it’s the fastest ship in the fleet, yet these slow ass Alliance cruisers somehow make it ok. If anything, the Normandy should have been one of the ships that made it to the rendezvous point, but again, this would require replacing the entire final animation sequence on top of the supplemental material added for the extended cut slides. I would guess that Bioware thought it would be cool to have the beam chasing the SR2. If you notice, the ships are seen flying by that damaged relay unless ems was below 1750. What could have happened is the SR2 is seen flying with those ships. There could be a memorial scene with Hackett, and the other fleet commanders present paying their respects to Shepard. If ems is above 3100, the memorial scene still takes place, but Hackett is putting up Anderson's nameplate. signaling that Shepard didn't die. Of course that couldn't happen because of the SR2 being on the unknown planet before the cut.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 9, 2020 12:19:03 GMT
It’s hard to fault the FOB dialogues for wasting time when there are big stretches of ME3 that do that throughout the game. Heck it’s part of the reason some people hate the Citadel DLC.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 9, 2020 13:33:51 GMT
I can see that being pretty interesting, insofar that the nuclear fallout both online and off would be hysterical. My bitter disappointment would at least be offset by the entertainment value of the misery of the fan base. To be honest the whole heroic death thing doesn’t really affect me anymore, since it’s a trope that’s done to death. I suppose these days, an honest to goodness optimistic ending that isn’t chock full of ass-pulls can be a pretty tall order. Cynicism is our god now. Awhile I go, I gave out a "peaceful ending" solution... negotiated settlement between Shepard and the Reapers... about as optimistic an ending you can get. It wasn't liked either. Shepard is in a war. ME3 is based on the concept of war. Heroic death might be an overdone trope, but it what happens in war. Totally annihilating ones enemies is not an "optimistic ending" and it is also a trope that has been done to death.
ME:A had an optimistic ending... people didn't like it either.
I can see a peaceful ending working in the right hands, but it requires a huge rewrite of prior events so that there’s an adequate payoff. The Crucible would definitely need to go in that case, since it functions like an override. Personally I would still have an enemy to kill, but it would just be the singular ancient AI caught in its own death loop of faulty logic, like VIKI in I Robot.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:30:39 GMT
I like the placement of the goodbyes. I would have liked for everyone to have been at the FOB in person instead...then it just seems like Shepard to bump into them while walking from the shuttle to HQ to speak with Anderson... and there would be no appearance of wasting time since, even in a rush, it would be reasonable for Shepard to stop briefly to talk with people when walking right by them. How long is briefly? The issue I have is while the goodbyes are happening, regardless of how briefly you want to call it, the fleets are taking damage lessening the chance of having the crucible docked with the citadel. Of course a goody-two shoe Shepard would still have the option to ignore everyone as well. After the cut was released, I came up with an alternative that centered around Steve. As folks know, talking to Steve throughout ME3, even on the Citadel, will survive in London. The shuttle crashes near the fob. He suffers minor injuries. He makes it to the base without encountering any of the uglies. While there, Shepard talks with him, a goodbye, while Cortex is being treated for his injuries. During the beam run, Cortex can see Harbinger firing it's beams of doom. Once the reaper flies away, Steve gets in the nearest shuttle to head to the beam to pick up any survivors. Both squadmates are picked up. One of the squadmates looks back at the beam in time to see Shepard go up the beam with Anderson a few steps behind. This scenario could have been used even before the cut was released. What if Cortex dies? Then have character #whatever show up instead with the shuttle. Another suggestion I had was using the conduit on Ilos. Instead of all the fleets heading to Earth, Shepard travels to Ilos, along with the ME2 squadmates, to get on the Citadel. Once they arrive, they encounter Cerberus. Cerberus already has the conduit powered up and using it. After Cerburus is taken care of, Shepard and all squadmates use the relay. Once on the Citadel, they see C-sec, Cerberus and the uglies fighting each other. This is where the player can see the citadel war assets in action. Shepard encounters Bailey who says that a guy in a fancyy suit headed in that direction. Before using the relay, Shepard informs Hackett who sends the fleets to Earth followed by the crucible. The reason why this wouldn't work is because of Anderson. He is needed on the Citadel for the touchy-feely scene.
I also created a thread asking posters what is your Priority Earth. Perhaps you would prefer then if the ex-squad mate walked beside Shepard while they are talking? Even amid a battle, only a total dick of a commander would bump into a person they commanded and not at least say hello or salute... briefly. As I said, even as it is, you have the option to walk by everyone and not talk to them. You're complaining about somethings that's optional and there for other people who want to have goodbyes in a freakin' game. Head canon your head canon however you like. I don't give a rip about your precise Steve scenario. It was certainly possible for him to be located at the FOB along with any of the other ME2 squad mates and Samantha. In principle, a goodbye in person would have been more satisfying than the "holo" conversations we got.
I head canon that a little time was needed to load missiles on the tanks.
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