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Post by vertigomez on Jun 7, 2018 17:33:38 GMT
Only speaking for myself, but: it's not something we can really compare to anything in the real world, because in the real world we don't have to worry about mind-controlling blood mages or demonic possession. Fenris has a very reasonable attitude towards magic and mages; he acknowledges that there are good mages - strong mages - but believes that even the most well-intentioned will resort to blood magic/consorting with demons/otherwise abusing others with their power if it means, say... protecting those they love or just surviving. And that's not even touching on all the just-plain-horrible mages we run into over the course of the game, or the Merrill-Marethari situation, Anders blowing up a church, Corypheus...
The only time I imagine it hurts to hear stuff like that is after he kills Hadriana, when he says: "What does magic touch that it doesn't spoil?" and Hawke just gives him this incredulous look. It could be that Hawke takes that as a personal affront; or Hawke could be hurt on Fenris's behalf, thinking It hasn't spoiled you because it's painful to think that Fenris sees himself as ruined or spoiled because of what was done to him.
I dunno. I get where he's coming from just like I get Sera's distrust of magic and her desire for mages to just sit on their hands and not do shit like.... shove spirits into dead bodies and bungle the timeline so everyone dies horribly and painfully. Still romanced them both with mages.
But then, my Fenris-romancing Hawke was a moderate sort of dude who sent mages back to the Circle if he thought they were a danger to others and disavowed Anders' actions; he and Fenris met in the middle and learned to love each other as people first.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 8, 2018 3:11:18 GMT
I apologize if I've asked this before, but how does mage Hawke get over the fact that Fenris hates mages? I mean... it's easy for the player to analyse it in a cold, detached and objective way. People will tell you about how his past experiences make it acceptable/tolerable. But if you put yourself in Hawke's shoes, it isn't that easy. Imagine if a woman meets a guy who starts ranting about how terrible women are because his brother was murdered by a woman, his ex-girlfriend cheated on him, etc etc. She will think "Okay, I understand where those feelings are coming from, but I still think you're a jerk". It's hard, but can. Hawke even can befriend with him. I was not able to imagine the rivalry with him, while I played as pro-mage, I always went for the friendship, and never lost him. Because he's a good man. Angry, but wants to get rid of his anger (QB after he killed Hadriana) He doesn't really hate the mages, he fears from them, and this is understandable. Because of while Hawke was pursued and forced to hide what is s/he, Hawke was never inside the Circle, so: he doesn't have the worst experience, Hawke able to understand a pursued man. Hawke's Southern-Andrastian, at least grew up in this culture. Probably not a big fan of Tevinter, I don't think s/he would able to accept the slavery or the human sacrifice – so: even a mage Hawke can understand Fenris' positions. But yes, this is a very controversial feeling, because while Fenris seems sometimes very practical and it seems he respects Hawke, seems still blames the magic for everything. And if Hawke handles it badly, there is the rivalry. It's about Hawke's temper and frustration. Why Fenris left him? Because he's a mage? Fenris didn't say anything. Hawke's not a psychiatrist, just a man, who was pursued too. Hawke understands Fenris, only wants Fenris to understand him too. This is why the rivalry works with Fenris. Hawke doesn't hurt him, but can show his disappointment. So: this is a hard romance with a mage, but not impossible. If Hawke supports him, he will trust in Hawke and he shows his trust. Not once he shows his loyalty and softer side. He has humour, and takes Hawke's humour. He also able to fight for Hawke. – just as Hawke able to fight for him. He able to fight for the mages – he doesn't care about Southern-Thedas politics, and his goal not to close every mage – his goal to live freely. With Hawke. Sometimes he proves, how open-minded is he. Much more than many others: "It was a suggestion, not a condemnation" This would my favourite line with him – sadly I never let Anders kill Ella...
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 16, 2018 21:37:05 GMT
This gives me life.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 17, 2018 19:09:13 GMT
Since I'm playing DA2 again while redoing my canon, I updated my Fenris marking mod and thought to let you all know. Get it on the Nexus.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 18, 2018 9:58:25 GMT
It's been four years since I've done a full play of DA2. I seem to remember that there are two versions of Fenris's big kiss in Act 2, and that I liked the second one, but don't remember much beyond that (or how to trigger it).
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Post by Catilina on Jun 18, 2018 11:56:49 GMT
It's been four years since I've done a full play of DA2. I seem to remember that there are two versions of Fenris's big kiss in Act 2, and that I liked the second one, but don't remember much beyond that (or how to trigger it). The glowing kiss known as rivalry kills, but I'm not sure it's only availabe in the rivalry. It depends on the order of the converstaionst (QB) and the quest. If Hawke speaks with him twice, he will visit Hawke and kiss Hawke. If he only once speaks with Hawke, he will visit Hawke, and speaks with hawke, but leave without kiss. after that, Hawke visits him, and he will visit Hawke again.
So, perhaps it possible the glowing kiss in friendship (at least I heard this), but I never succeeded. And probably the second conversation's timing depend on the approval too. Just as most of the QBs.
Rivalry romance (glowing kiss):
Friendship romance (not glowing kiss):
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Post by Iddy on Jun 18, 2018 13:09:59 GMT
I'm nearly done with DAO and will be starting DA2 soon. Maybe I'll go the rivalry path with Fenris, since it seems to be the one where he gets the most character development.
Come to think of it, that is the case with most companions. Isabela learns to be responsible, Anders reevaluates his methods, Merrill realizes the risk she took wasn't worth it, etc.
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Post by phoray on Jun 18, 2018 13:19:15 GMT
but how does mage Hawke get over the fact that Fenris hates mages? Fenris fears and distrusts mages. Especially in an emotional moment, it may seem like he hates them. But he doesn't hate them. He hates what people have done to him in his life, and they just happened to be mages. Remove the magic from Danarius and Hadriana, give him the same events, and you'd have an elf that just distrusted rich people who abuse their power and think it's okay to own and sacrifice slaves. He likes and trusts Bethany if Bethany is alive. He likes and trust Hawke if Hawke is a mage. If Merril weren't trying to get that mirror fixed by talking to demons, he would likely have let himself trust her as well. Fenris presents a rough spiky exterior as a self protective measure but honestly, if someone is consistently a good steady person in his presence for years, he likes them, plain and simple. It's just most people aren't going to stick around to get pricked a couple of times. A mage Hawke who is an extension of myself has always perceived his "hate" as the above. Fear and distrust based on previous repeated experiences in his life about a certain kind of toxic people. But the more you get to know him, the more his walls come down- his fear isn't meant to offend you. And even he bemoans that he can't let that fear go even though he desperately wants to. Can't even start a relationship with you in full sincerity because he values you too much to start something like that while he's unwhole, disjointed, confused about who he even is.
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Post by phoray on Jun 18, 2018 13:22:08 GMT
Maybe I'll go the rivalry path with Fenris I disagree that he gets the most growth from a rivalry. It's in friendship that he becomes the most calm, relaxed, accepting. In Rivalry, it's like you're constantly keeping him angry and depressed. He even says his "Revenge tastes like Ashes." This doesn't mean you have to agree with him about mages, to get the friendship points. Just don't take him on any mage saving missions- nearly anything that would make Anders happy makes Fenris grumpy
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Post by Iddy on Jun 18, 2018 13:23:28 GMT
Maybe I'll go the rivalry path with Fenris I disagree that he gets the most growth from a rivalry. It's in friendship that he becomes the most calm, relaxed, accepting. In Rivalry, it's like you're constantly keeping him angry and depressed. He even says his "Revenge tastes like Ashes." This doesn't mean you have to agree with him about mages, to get the friendship points. Just don't take him on any mage saving missions- nearly anything that would make Anders happy makes Fenris grumpy Inquisition ended ninjamancing by making the companions omniscient.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 18, 2018 13:24:08 GMT
The glowing kiss known as rivalry kills, but I'm not sure it's only availabe in the rivalry. I don't think it's rivalry only, as I know I previously arranged things to see it on my other characters, who friendmanced Fenris. What does QB stand for? If Hawke speaks with him twice, he will visit Hawke and kiss Hawke. If he only once speaks with Hawke, he will visit Hawke, and speaks with hawke, but leave without kiss. after that, Hawke visits him, and he will visit Hawke again. Visit when? Before or after the quest?
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Post by Iddy on Jun 18, 2018 13:25:59 GMT
but how does mage Hawke get over the fact that Fenris hates mages? Fenris fears and distrusts mages. Especially in an emotional moment, it may seem like he hates them. But he doesn't hate them. He hates what people have done to him in his life, and they just happened to be mages. Remove the magic from Danarius and Hadriana, give him the same events, and you'd have an elf that just distrusted rich people who abuse their power and think it's okay to own and sacrifice slaves. He likes and trusts Bethany if Bethany is alive. He likes and trust Hawke if Hawke is a mage. If Merril weren't trying to get that mirror fixed by talking to demons, he would likely have let himself trust her as well. Fenris presents a rough spiky exterior as a self protective measure but honestly, if someone is consistently a good steady person in his presence for years, he likes them, plain and simple. It's just most people aren't going to stick around to get pricked a couple of times. A mage Hawke who is an extension of myself has always perceived his "hate" as the above. Fear and distrust based on previous repeated experiences in his life about a certain kind of toxic people. But the more you get to know him, the more his walls come down- his fear isn't meant to offend you. And even he bemoans that he can't let that fear go even though he desperately wants to. Can't even start a relationship with you in full sincerity because he values you too much to start something like that while he's unwhole, disjointed, confused about who he even is. True enough, though I still would expect Hawke to be offended before s/he learns more about him.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 18, 2018 13:52:44 GMT
I'm nearly done with DAO and will be starting DA2 soon. Maybe I'll go the rivalry path with Fenris, since it seems to be the one where he gets the most character development. Come to think of it, that is the case with most companions. Isabela learns to be responsible, Anders reevaluates his methods, Merrill realizes the risk she took wasn't worth it, etc. The rivalry with Fenris not really about Hawke wants to "fix" Fenris. Yes, can accelerate the process of getting rid of his "hatred" (it's not really hatred, rather fear) and revalue his opinion, but this also happens in the friendship too – only slowly. It's rather about Hawke's temper. With Merrill, the rivalry can be disrespectful – if Hawke refuses to give him the knife. Merrill's rivalry is good with a Hawke who doesn't trust her/blood magic – but I can't imagine in romance. With Isabela? I never succeeded it – I no really played a Hawke who was responsible for anything. My Hawke is an apostate's (apostate) son. He's an outlaw – and never wants to be anything else, even when becoming a Champion. How s/he can teach Isabela anything? An outlaw? It would be hypocrisy in his/her position. Even if Hawke would want to be lawful, the law wouldn't let him/her be lawful. The law rejects Hawke's kind/family. But ofc. with Isabela, the rivalry working. But she will be a better person in friendship too – perhaps Hawke her only true friend, and she can appreciate it. Anyway, the rivalry's not bad with her, only I didn't succeed. I can imagine even in romance. Anders? Anders hates to blow up the Chantry, this is clear in friendship too – and he blows up the Chantry in rivalry too. One thing's different: he can't take the responsibility in the rivalry – he blames Justice for everything. This isn't that a character development. Inthe rivalry, only thing happens: Anders become miserable. A man, who can't take the responsibility, only wants to die and lost his faith. Justice will not disappear. In rivalry Anders and Justice also rivalize – and this rivalry will consume both of them. With a templar-hearted or/and a Hawke who fears the spirits/thinks, Justice's a demon the rivalry's natural way. But not in romance. The rivalmance not a love with him, only a sexual obsession and dominance fight. So: do the rivalry with a character, who dislike him/his opinions, but not because of this will fix him or makes him "better person", because it's not. Do it, if your character's personality and views fit this concept. But the rivalry does not develop his character. But of course, according to the to writer's suggestion the rivalry path's the "right" path. I suppose the friendship/rivalry system is very good, I would love an improved version, but this one bleeding from 1000 wounds. By the way: Aveline's rivalry's very good!
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Post by Catilina on Jun 18, 2018 14:00:23 GMT
The glowing kiss known as rivalry kills, but I'm not sure it's only availabe in the rivalry. I don't think it's rivalry only, as I know I previously arranged things to see it on my other characters, who friendmanced Fenris. What does QB stand for? If Hawke speaks with him twice, he will visit Hawke and kiss Hawke. If he only once speaks with Hawke, he will visit Hawke, and speaks with hawke, but leave without kiss. after that, Hawke visits him, and he will visit Hawke again. Visit when? Before or after the quest? He visits Hawke after the quest in every situation, but for the romance needs the QB (questioning beliefs) conversation. Hawke can do it before or after the quest (perhaps it depends on the approval too as well). The point: After the quest Fenris will leave hawke, and later, when Hawke go home, Fenris will wait for Hawke in the hall. If the QB's done, Fenris will start the hard kiss romance. If the QB's not done yet, he will leave, and wait Hawke in his mansion. After the QB done, Fenris will visit Hawke again. And got the softer kiss scene.
Perhaps it just me, but I always got the glowing kiss in rivalry, and the softer kiss in friendship.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 18, 2018 14:01:27 GMT
Fenris fears and distrusts mages. Especially in an emotional moment, it may seem like he hates them. But he doesn't hate them. He hates what people have done to him in his life, and they just happened to be mages. Remove the magic from Danarius and Hadriana, give him the same events, and you'd have an elf that just distrusted rich people who abuse their power and think it's okay to own and sacrifice slaves. He likes and trusts Bethany if Bethany is alive. He likes and trust Hawke if Hawke is a mage. If Merril weren't trying to get that mirror fixed by talking to demons, he would likely have let himself trust her as well. Fenris presents a rough spiky exterior as a self protective measure but honestly, if someone is consistently a good steady person in his presence for years, he likes them, plain and simple. It's just most people aren't going to stick around to get pricked a couple of times.
A mage Hawke who is an extension of myself has always perceived his "hate" as the above. Fear and distrust based on previous repeated experiences in his life about a certain kind of toxic people. But the more you get to know him, the more his walls come down- his fear isn't meant to offend you. And even he bemoans that he can't let that fear go even though he desperately wants to. Can't even start a relationship with you in full sincerity because he values you too much to start something like that while he's unwhole, disjointed, confused about who he even is.
True enough, though I still would expect Hawke to be offended before s/he learns more about him. And this is why the rivalry's very good in romance with Fenris. It's depend on Hawke's temper.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 18, 2018 14:25:34 GMT
He visits Hawke after the quest in every situation, but for the romance needs the QB (questioning beliefs) conversation. Hawke can do it before or after the quest (perhaps it depends on the approval too as well). The point: After the quest Fenris will leave hawke, and later, when Hawke go home, Fenris will wait for Hawke in the hall. If the QB's done, Fenris will start the hard kiss romance. If the QB's not done yet, he will leave, and wait Hawke in his mansion. After the QB done, Fenris will visit Hawke again. And got the softer kiss scene.
Perhaps it just me, but I always got the glowing kiss in rivalry, and the softer kiss in friendship. OH! Thanks. I'm pretty sure I delayed Questioning Beliefs then. I'll probably test it to be sure.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 21, 2018 20:34:28 GMT
I've only ever done Fenris romance on the friendship path but I'm pretty sure I've got both versions. I think the softer kiss one was my first run when I was almost locked in on the rivalry path at the end of Act One and so took the entirety of Act 2 to get to the point where he kissed me. I even lost my mother but didn't get the scene with him comforting me because my friendship meter/romance wasn't far enough advanced. At the time I didn't even know your love interest would comfort you because I got Averline and of course she is a friend.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2018 7:16:33 GMT
One of my favorite scenes with Fenris is after Hawke's mother dies and Fenris tell Hawke: " I don't know what to say but I'm here" I loved it as well but sadly my first Hawke didn't get to hear it. Still that is because I played the game without any meta knowledge, so how was I to know that my mother would die at the end of that quest? Naturally I assumed it was dependent on getting there in time, so finding there was nothing you could have done was a bit of a let down. Then subsequent games I made sure that I didn't trigger the final part of that quest until after I had advanced my romance with Fenris to the point where we were considered an item.
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Post by Rascoth on Jun 23, 2018 19:14:33 GMT
Unfortunately, DeviantArt of original artist - millibayley - seems to be no longer active.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Post by phoray on Jun 27, 2018 0:54:42 GMT
^^^^^^ If only I could draw.
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Apr 13, 2024 10:00:53 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 27, 2018 22:17:00 GMT
He looks like Dante from Devil May Cry to be more specific. With his white hair, greatsword and deep voice Is that the game, that made an action hero out of Dante Alighieri? I hate that thing, poor Dante deserves better, first he is exiled from Florence and now he is turned into a devil fighting templar kind of superhero. But at least, I know, which character you mean Well someone was a huge fan of Dante that the character is based on.
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N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MissyBender
Posts: 418 Likes: 1,288
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Sept 26, 2022 20:44:37 GMT
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pensieve on Jun 28, 2018 9:29:44 GMT
^^^^^^ If only I could draw. +1 I'm going back to school next year and I'm definitely using Fenris as a model for my art class
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Post by vertigomez on Jul 1, 2018 18:07:10 GMT
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Post by Rascoth on Jul 1, 2018 20:32:24 GMT
^ That last one, so true. With most companions tbh Though Varric has priority
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 16, 2018 1:38:35 GMT
So this Fenris dialogue mod exists. It "Restores the 'So you've never ...' M!Hawke dialogue option in Act 2's Questioning Beliefs that would previously only fire for F!Hawke (despite being voiced and animated for both genders)." I wish there was an alternative for the line referencing being a man after you have sex.
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