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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 31, 2019 17:09:54 GMT
So you were angry about not seeing some reveals about a character you didn't care about? I found it absurd, basically. If that makes me angry, sure. I just wish Solas was left out, completely. I wish he'd fuck off to somewhere, never to be seen again. Shit, I don't even know what Fen'Harel is, or why should I care about him. Especially since its Solas. All game content is paywalled, in one place or another. I'd expect game and sequel critical content to be in the base game. Trespasser, which is admittedly the real ending to DA:I, I'd have expected it to be in DA:I, not paywalled into some DLC. The most critical information we get about Solas is in the base game. Most everything else is essentially details that will likely get recapped in a sequel anyway. We know he was lying about who he was and we find out exactly who he is in the post credits. What more is necessary as a setup for a proper sequel? I suppose an argument could be made for the Inquisition's fate itself, but the base game always led the player to believe that the organization as it stood was always meant to be temporary in some way anyhow. Ultimately this depends on how the next game sets all of this up and establishes the transition between the world states.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 31, 2019 17:15:21 GMT
Yet, if ems is high enough, when checking on war assets in the war room, it will say a 50/50 chance against the reapers. That's just part of the game narrative, but that doesn't really have to do with the other theaters of war in the events of ME3. Any place where the reaper forces are the most focused are essentially doomed. Palaven and Thessia are good examples. There's nothing Shepard or anyone else can do there except extract someone or something important and get out before they die. Those places are toast, and no amount of infantrymen are going to change that. Everything happening is just slowing them down a little bit so Hackett's fleet can hide out and continue building the Crucible. Given how many Reapers were out there, they shouldn't have even been able to do that. The galaxy was f*cked as soon as the Reapers hit the relay network.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2019 17:15:27 GMT
What more is necessary as a setup for a proper sequel? I don't know. I guess I am not happy that we get more of a character I really, really had a hard time even remotely considering the entire game. If our main antagonist turned out to be, what was her name, scout Harding? I'd believe it a whole lot more. Solas? No way. |
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 31, 2019 17:16:43 GMT
What more is necessary as a setup for a proper sequel? I don't know. I guess I am not happy that we get more of a character I really, really had a hard time even remotely considering the entire game. If our main antagonist turned out to be, what was her name, scout Harding? I'd believe it a whole lot more. Solas? No way. If the issue is simply with the character itself, then I guess there's no helping that.....unless of course, we get to kill that character. Then I suppose some solace can be gotten from it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2019 17:20:13 GMT
I don't know. I guess I am not happy that we get more of a character I really, really had a hard time even remotely considering the entire game. If our main antagonist turned out to be, what was her name, scout Harding? I'd believe it a whole lot more. Solas? No way. If the issue is simply with the character itself, then I guess there's no helping that.....unless of course, we get to kill that character. Then I suppose some solace can be gotten from it. I just don't care about Solas. The idea of having to deal with him again, is just meh. And saving the killing of Solas for the end is just ... that's not what I want to be doing an entire game; trying to find a way to kill Solas. Off with his head in the first 5 minutes and then let's get to the Dragons.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 31, 2019 17:21:19 GMT
That's just part of the game narrative, but that doesn't really have to do with the other theaters of war in the events of ME3. Any place where the reaper forces are the most focused are essentially doomed. Palaven and Thessia are good examples. There's nothing Shepard or anyone else can do there except extract someone or something important and get out before they die. Those places are toast, and no amount of infantrymen are going to change that. Everything happening is just slowing them down a little bit so Hackett's fleet can hide out and continue building the Crucible. Given how many Reapers were out there, they shouldn't have even been able to do that. The galaxy was f*cked as soon as the Reapers hit the relay network. Why not? The game doesn't really represent this as well as I'd like, but the sheer enormity of space leaves massive holes for something small to run around undetected for good periods of time, even with a massive fleet of killer spaceships. Putting aside the convenient (inconvenient?) plot power of the Collector ship's sensors in the ME2 prologue, it's not unbelievable that a relatively tiny stealth ship could quickly pop in for a short while and pop out. On the ground they'd just be another ant in a swarm of ants firing at the sky. Technically, I'd say the galaxy was fucked the moment Shepard opened his/her big mouth about having to stop the reapers at the end of ME1. Oh good, a sequel hook. We're doomed I tells ya. DOOooooOOoooomed.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 31, 2019 17:23:46 GMT
So you were angry about not seeing some reveals about a character you didn't care about? I found it absurd, basically. If that makes me angry, sure. I just wish Solas was left out, completely. I wish he'd fuck off to somewhere, never to be seen again. Shit, I don't even know what Fen'Harel is, or why should I care about him. Especially since its Solas. All game content is paywalled, in one place or another. I'd expect game and sequel critical content to be in the base game. Trespasser, which is admittedly the real ending to DA:I, I'd have expected it to be in DA:I, not paywalled into some DLC. But the absurd part was in DAI proper anyway, wasn't it? Sounds like you didn't like where they went with Solas, which means that the whole concept of Trespasser and DA4 won't work for you. In that case, you should be glad about how things worked out, since you didn't buy Trespasser and don't have to buy DA4. As for "critical,"you're using that word in a way I don't understand. What do you actually mean by it? I reserve that term for things which I actually need to play and enjoy playing my character in the game-world. No Bio DLC has ever withheld something critical from me.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2019 17:26:06 GMT
Yet, if ems is high enough, when checking on war assets in the war room, it will say a 50/50 chance against the reapers. That's just part of the game narrative, but that doesn't really have to do with the other theaters of war in the events of ME3. Any place where the reaper forces are the most focused are essentially doomed. Palaven and Thessia are good examples. There's nothing Shepard or anyone else can do there except extract someone or something important and get out before they die. Those places are toast, and no amount of infantrymen are going to change that. Everything happening is just slowing them down a little bit so Hackett's fleet can hide out and continue building the Crucible. Agreed. That's kinda why in my theory (2 pages back in my initial post about this), I was hoping for a three front war, where yes, in any direct confrontation with either of the other parties you would likely loose, so the goal is to fight delaying actions and such, to get the others to clash as often as possible while they clash as little as possible with your own forces. Shepard in his stealth ship with an elite team of saboteurs and commandos would have been pretty well suited for that.
And even in ME3 as it is, this is kinda still the premise, right? We are supposed to fight battles to delay the reaper advance long enough for the crucible to be finished, to prevent them from converting/indoctrinating the geth/quarians and the krogan and add those to our troops instead of theirs and to deny the reapers quick victories on both, Tuchanka and Rannoch. Both Menae/Palaven and Thessia are pretty much done for by the time we get there and we are mainly there to extract some vital assets before the places go down for good.
That's all cool. What pisses me off in ME3 is just that the whole Cerberus plot-BS comes in and keeps distracting us from that vital task, which I thought was pretty stupid. I'd have rather spent my time disturbing reaper activity on Illium, maybe help with a last ditch evacuation of Irune, Help an insurrection against an indoctrinated government in a Terminus colony or sneak onto Harbinger to sabotage his systems.
(And before anyone comes and says "but Cerberus provided different enemy types so we didn't have to fight husks all the time", well, I say with indoctrination established and with the codex even mentioning subdued populations on reaper controlled planets, those different enemy types could just as well have been indoctrinated mercs or military forces from reaper controlled planets, which they send against us and which would potentially have allowed for even more variety.)
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Post by Iakus on Jul 31, 2019 17:28:29 GMT
Given how many Reapers were out there, they shouldn't have even been able to do that. The galaxy was f*cked as soon as the Reapers hit the relay network. Why not? The game doesn't really represent this as well as I'd like, but the sheer enormity of space leaves massive holes for something small to run around undetected for good periods of time, even with a massive fleet of killer spaceships. Putting aside the convenient (inconvenient?) plot power of the Collector ship's sensors in the ME2 prologue, it's not unbelievable that a relatively tiny stealth ship could quickly pop in for a short while and pop out. On the ground they'd just be another ant in a swarm of ants firing at the sky. Technically, I'd say the galaxy was fucked the moment Shepard opened his/her big mouth about having to stop the reapers at the end of ME1. Oh good, a sequel hook. We're doomed I tells ya. DOOooooOOoooomed. Because the number of Reapers out there means they could send hundreds, if not thousands of ships to each homeworld AND secure the Citadel simultaneously. Remember just a dozen Reapers were able to take on and defeat/drive off three SA fleets and destroy Arcturus Station. Ten times that could lock down anything in the system, including the relay. Which they wouldn't have to do because they captured the Citadel first thing just like they did EVERY SINGLE TIME BEFORE NOW! The only reason Shepard doesn't die on Earth is the Reapers were holding the Idiot Ball to beat all Idiot Balls.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2019 17:33:00 GMT
I found it absurd, basically. If that makes me angry, sure. I just wish Solas was left out, completely. I wish he'd fuck off to somewhere, never to be seen again. Shit, I don't even know what Fen'Harel is, or why should I care about him. Especially since its Solas. I'd expect game and sequel critical content to be in the base game. Trespasser, which is admittedly the real ending to DA:I, I'd have expected it to be in DA:I, not paywalled into some DLC. But the absurd part was in DAI proper anyway, wasn't it? Sounds like you didn't like where they went with Solas, which means that the whole concept of Trespasser and DA4 won't work for you. In that case, you should be glad about how things worked out, since you didn't buy Trespasser and don't have to buy DA4. As for "critical,"you're using that word in a way I don't understand. What do you actually mean by it? Ah well, forget about it.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2019 17:41:48 GMT
If the issue is simply with the character itself, then I guess there's no helping that.....unless of course, we get to kill that character. Then I suppose some solace can be gotten from it. I just don't care about Solas. The idea of having to deal with him again, is just meh. And saving the killing of Solas for the end is just ... that's not what I want to be doing an entire game; trying to find a way to kill Solas. Off with his head in the first 5 minutes and then let's get to the Dragons. I don't care about the elf either, but I'm curious as to what will be done in the next DA game when dealing with him. It's one of the reasons why I'm looking forward to the next da game.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 31, 2019 17:43:53 GMT
Why not? The game doesn't really represent this as well as I'd like, but the sheer enormity of space leaves massive holes for something small to run around undetected for good periods of time, even with a massive fleet of killer spaceships. Putting aside the convenient (inconvenient?) plot power of the Collector ship's sensors in the ME2 prologue, it's not unbelievable that a relatively tiny stealth ship could quickly pop in for a short while and pop out. On the ground they'd just be another ant in a swarm of ants firing at the sky. Technically, I'd say the galaxy was fucked the moment Shepard opened his/her big mouth about having to stop the reapers at the end of ME1. Oh good, a sequel hook. We're doomed I tells ya. DOOooooOOoooomed. Because the number of Reapers out there means they could send hundreds, if not thousands of ships to each homeworld AND secure the Citadel simultaneously. Remember just a dozen Reapers were able to take on and defeat/drive off three SA fleets and destroy Arcturus Station. Ten times that could lock down anything in the system, including the relay. Which they wouldn't have to do because they captured the Citadel first thing just like they did EVERY SINGLE TIME BEFORE NOW! The only reason Shepard doesn't die on Earth is the Reapers were holding the Idiot Ball to beat all Idiot Balls. To be fair, the reapers were holding the idiot ball the moment Sovereign spoke.
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Post by Phantom on Jul 31, 2019 17:48:32 GMT
Cerberus was increasingly unbelievable. Some sort of shadow empire. Must have had some kind of magic credit spring to finance all the secret bases. Even fleets! TIM found the Star Forge. It is known. So IF T.I.M. found the Star Forge, So does it make him Revan for doing that. Also I have known to make jokes that ME3 Cerberus is the Second Coming of Sith Empire.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2019 17:50:34 GMT
Why not? The game doesn't really represent this as well as I'd like, but the sheer enormity of space leaves massive holes for something small to run around undetected for good periods of time, even with a massive fleet of killer spaceships. Putting aside the convenient (inconvenient?) plot power of the Collector ship's sensors in the ME2 prologue, it's not unbelievable that a relatively tiny stealth ship could quickly pop in for a short while and pop out. On the ground they'd just be another ant in a swarm of ants firing at the sky. Technically, I'd say the galaxy was fucked the moment Shepard opened his/her big mouth about having to stop the reapers at the end of ME1. Oh good, a sequel hook. We're doomed I tells ya. DOOooooOOoooomed. Because the number of Reapers out there means they could send hundreds, if not thousands of ships to each homeworld AND secure the Citadel simultaneously. Remember just a dozen Reapers were able to take on and defeat/drive off three SA fleets and destroy Arcturus Station. Ten times that could lock down anything in the system, including the relay. Which they wouldn't have to do because they captured the Citadel first thing just like they did EVERY SINGLE TIME BEFORE NOW! The only reason Shepard doesn't die on Earth is the Reapers were holding the Idiot Ball to beat all Idiot Balls. I am usually someone who likes to think of ways to explain what happened with assumptions, rather than trying to use logic to go for plot hole. i.e. if I do find a plot hole, I try very hard to find a way to come up with a reason why ti may not be one.
Therefore, my theory on why the reapers did not go for the Citadel instantly is because they couldn't be sure that they would actually be able to capture it. Because what if they fly into the Serpent Nebula? The council would immediatly close the arms and as far as we know, once that happens, not even the reapers can get through the quantum shielded outer shell. Sure, they could lay down a siege or something but goven the size of the station, we don't really know how long they could last and even if they don't last but still never open the arms, the reapers effectively lost the Citadel for good. Therefore, they wait until they can get someone on the inside to facilitate their goals there (whether that was actually TIM in the end (which would be stupid) or someone else is enver made entirely clear IIRC). Once they can be reasonably sure that they can attack without fear that the station will just close on them, they do just that.
As for their numbers, I don't think we know how many of them there are actually. We usually only see a few dozen at once at the most. But even if there are a few hundred or even thousand, I'd still argue that space is freaking big and given the you can't track a vessel traveling at FTL and that you can't track anything if you are flying in FTL yourself, securing just one solar system like SOL is a tough job. Even ME1 established that the reapers were not infinitely powerful like you describe. Even with full control over the Citadel and the relay network, subduing the prothean empire fully took them centuries. ME3 takes place entirely within the first year of their arrival.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 31, 2019 17:51:39 GMT
Because the number of Reapers out there means they could send hundreds, if not thousands of ships to each homeworld AND secure the Citadel simultaneously. Remember just a dozen Reapers were able to take on and defeat/drive off three SA fleets and destroy Arcturus Station. Ten times that could lock down anything in the system, including the relay. Which they wouldn't have to do because they captured the Citadel first thing just like they did EVERY SINGLE TIME BEFORE NOW! The only reason Shepard doesn't die on Earth is the Reapers were holding the Idiot Ball to beat all Idiot Balls. To be fair, the reapers were holding the idiot ball the moment Sovereign spoke. Not to that degree. Sovereign you could pass off as being a trash-talking antagonist. But the Reapers as a whole had Every Single Advantage and still screwed it up by the numbers.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 31, 2019 17:54:08 GMT
Because the number of Reapers out there means they could send hundreds, if not thousands of ships to each homeworld AND secure the Citadel simultaneously. Remember just a dozen Reapers were able to take on and defeat/drive off three SA fleets and destroy Arcturus Station. Ten times that could lock down anything in the system, including the relay. Which they wouldn't have to do because they captured the Citadel first thing just like they did EVERY SINGLE TIME BEFORE NOW! The only reason Shepard doesn't die on Earth is the Reapers were holding the Idiot Ball to beat all Idiot Balls. I am usually someone who likes to think of ways to explain what happened with assumptions, rather than trying to use logic to go for plot hole. i.e. if I do find a plot hole, I try very hard to find a way to come up with a reason why ti may not be one.
Therefore, my theory on why the reapers did not go for the Citadel instantly is because they couldn't be sure that they would actually be able to capture it. Because what if they fly into the Serpent Nebula? The council would immediatly close the arms and as far as we know, once that happens, not even the reapers can get through the quantum shielded outer shell. Sure, they could lay down a siege or something but goven the size of the station, we don't really know how long they could last and even if they don't last but still never open the arms, the reapers effectively lost the Citadel for good. Therefore, they wait until they can get someone on the inside to facilitate their goals there (whether that was actually TIM in the end (which would be stupid) or someone else is enver made entirely clear IIRC). Once they can be reasonably sure that they can attack without fear that the station will just close on them, they do just that.
As for their numbers, I don't think we know how many of them there are actually. We usually only see a few dozen at once at the most. But even if there are a few hundred or even thousand, I'd still argue that space is freaking big and given the you can't track a vessel traveling at FTL and that you can't track anything if you are flying in FTL yourself, securing just one solar system like SOL is a tough job. Even ME1 established that the reapers were not infinitely powerful like you describe. Even with full control over the Citadel and the relay network, subduing the prothean empire fully took them centuries. ME3 takes place entirely within the first year of their arrival.
The end of ME3 pretty well demonstrates the Reapers could have taken the Citadel at any time. As for numbers, keep in mind that the dozen Reapers that took on three fleets was just a small squadron from the "main force" heading for Earth. the SA's major choke point and main defense of Earth barely registered as a speed bump to them.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 31, 2019 17:58:06 GMT
To be fair, the reapers were holding the idiot ball the moment Sovereign spoke. Not to that degree. Sovereign you could pass off as being a trash-talking antagonist. But the Reapers as a whole had Every Single Advantage and still screwed it up by the numbers. Not to that degree at that very moment, but it basically took the idiot ball and went for that touchdown when it decided to bumrush the Citadel. I guess this is more of a retroactive stupification of the character with the events of ME2 and 3, but just the same, Sovereign basically bought the reapers a big red pair of clown shoes to die in.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2019 18:00:19 GMT
he end of ME3 pretty well demonstrates teh Reapers could have taken the Citadel at any time. I say it doesn't demonstrate anything of the kind. We don't see how the reapers took over the Citadel. For all we know, they finally got an indoctrinated saboteur inside in position to prevent the arms from being closed, which they might not have before.
Yes, fleet vs. fleet, the organics will loose miserably. That is established very quickly in the game. But it is also established that the organics very quickly switch tactics to more of a hit & run guerrilla type warfare, which would make it much harder for the superior reaper forces to control the space they have already conquered.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 18:26:40 GMT
he end of ME3 pretty well demonstrates teh Reapers could have taken the Citadel at any time. I say it doesn't demonstrate anything of the kind. We don't see how the reapers took over the Citadel. For all we know, they finally got an indoctrinated saboteur inside in position to prevent the arms from being closed, which they might not have before. 1) Yes, fleet vs. fleet, the organics will loose miserably. That is established very quickly in the game. But it is also established that the organics very quickly switch tactics to more of a hit & run guerrilla type warfare, which would make it much harder for the superior reaper forces to control the space they have already conquered. The thing is, in the battle with Sovereign, the arms don't close until after Sovereign is inside them, so they don't even offer much of a defense anyways back in ME1. If the arms are the Citadel's intended defense, the sequence in ME1 is off. First, the crew of the Destiny Ascension indicates that the arms can't close. Then we see Saren reach the console and he closes the arms behind Sovereign. When Shepard reaches the console, its his job to open the arms to let the fleet have access to Sovereign. If what it takes to overtake the Citadel is to prevent the arms from closing, then Sovereign's geth fleet were able to accomplish that within the first few minutes of the battle at the end of ME1. Saren's access to close the arms was not actually needed to take the Citadel. All Sovereign perhaps needed was a larger geth fleet that could have fought off the Alliances 5th fleet. Since a small number of reapers decimated 3 SA fleets in ME3, I agree with Iakus, the Reapers in any number could have taken the Citadel at any time... and their stated MO from the previous harvest was to take it first.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2019 18:33:29 GMT
I say it doesn't demonstrate anything of the kind. We don't see how the reapers took over the Citadel. For all we know, they finally got an indoctrinated saboteur inside in position to prevent the arms from being closed, which they might not have before. 1) Yes, fleet vs. fleet, the organics will loose miserably. That is established very quickly in the game. But it is also established that the organics very quickly switch tactics to more of a hit & run guerrilla type warfare, which would make it much harder for the superior reaper forces to control the space they have already conquered. The thing is, in the battle with Sovereign, the arms don't close until after Sovereign is inside them, so they don't even offer much of a defense anyways back in ME1. The sequence in ME1 is off. The crew of the Destiny Ascension first indicates that the arms can't close. Then we see Saren reach the console and he closes the arms. When Shepard reaches the console, its his job to open the arms to let the fleet have access to Sovereign. If what it takes to overtake the Citadel is to prevent the arms from closing, then Sovereign's geth fleet were able to accomplish that within the first few minutes of the battle at the end of ME1. I'd have to watch the sequence in ME1 again to get the exact timing but wasn't Saren already on the Citadel, when Sovereign and the geth arrived? Maybe he and the geth that came with him could delay the closing of the arms. Also, in ME1, Sovereign has st least some element of surprise and the council's first response is to be evacuated, which would take time. This may no longer be the strategy they'd try to employ in ME3 )or at least the reapers may think so). In any case, if there is a chance they could be blocked from the Citadel, they may have a logical reason to decide not to go for it right away and rather wait until they get an indoctrinated servant into position to make their eventual attack fool proof. After all, even without the Citadel, as all of us seem to be in general agreement, they dominate the battlefield pretty well in general. In their eyes, an immediate attack may just not be worth the risk.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 18:41:24 GMT
The thing is, in the battle with Sovereign, the arms don't close until after Sovereign is inside them, so they don't even offer much of a defense anyways back in ME1. The sequence in ME1 is off. The crew of the Destiny Ascension first indicates that the arms can't close. Then we see Saren reach the console and he closes the arms. When Shepard reaches the console, its his job to open the arms to let the fleet have access to Sovereign. If what it takes to overtake the Citadel is to prevent the arms from closing, then Sovereign's geth fleet were able to accomplish that within the first few minutes of the battle at the end of ME1. I'd have to watch the sequence in ME1 again to get the exact timing but wasn't Saren already on the Citadel, when Sovereign and the geth arrived? Maybe he and the geth that came with him could delay the closing of the arms. Also, in ME1, Sovereign has st least some element of surprise and the council's first response is to be evacuated, which would take time. This may no longer be the strategy they'd try to employ in ME3 )or at least the reapers may think so). In any case, if there is a chance they could be blocked from the Citadel, they may have a logical reason to decide not to go for it right away and rather wait until they get an indoctrinated servant into position to make their eventual attack fool proof. After all, even without the Citadel, as all of us seem to be in general agreement, they dominate the battlefield pretty well in general. In their eyes, an immediate attack may just not be worth the risk. Even if they've lost the element of surprise, they have the numbers this time around. Using your premise, they already have slews to indoctrinated from any of the various species in the galaxy who have free access to the Citadel. In ME1, Anderson is able to infiltrate Citadel Control by himself in order to free the Normandy. Security is tighter by the time of ME3, but not insurmountably tight, since ME2 continually pokes holes in it... allowing Shepard to even have a discussion with the Citadel guard about "geth infiltration" with a geth standing behind him.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2019 18:50:24 GMT
I'd have to watch the sequence in ME1 again to get the exact timing but wasn't Saren already on the Citadel, when Sovereign and the geth arrived? Maybe he and the geth that came with him could delay the closing of the arms. Also, in ME1, Sovereign has st least some element of surprise and the council's first response is to be evacuated, which would take time. This may no longer be the strategy they'd try to employ in ME3 )or at least the reapers may think so). In any case, if there is a chance they could be blocked from the Citadel, they may have a logical reason to decide not to go for it right away and rather wait until they get an indoctrinated servant into position to make their eventual attack fool proof. After all, even without the Citadel, as all of us seem to be in general agreement, they dominate the battlefield pretty well in general. In their eyes, an immediate attack may just not be worth the risk. Even if they've lost the element of surprise, they have the numbers this time around. Using your premise, they already have slews to indoctrinated from any of the various species in the galaxy who have free access to the Citadel. In ME1, Anderson is able to infiltrate Citadel Control by himself in order to free the Normandy. Security is tighter by the time ME3, but not insurmountably tight, since ME2 continually pokes holes in it... allowing Shepard to even have a discussion with the Citadel guard about "geth infiltration" with a geth standing behind him. Well, by ME3, we see that they contain any newcomers who are not extensively vetted in the refugee area. There is an indoctrinated Hanar in the embassies, but one can assume that, especially once the war starts, they are beefing up security extensively especially around areas like the tower and whatever area the arms control, so even that hanar or most other agents that slip though probably couldn't have gotten there. We can also assume that after the end of ME1, they investigated the systems surrounding the tower a little more closely and didn't just go along with the keepers as much anymore (the fact that they din't do this before is one of the greatest issues I have with ME1 btw).
As for the reaper's numbers, given that they'd still have to come through the mass relay choke points to the Citadel (which is one of it's defenses as mentione in Revelation early on), greater numbers may not matter much. If the arms are closed, they are closed.
Again, I like to try and imagine how the plot as was might be logical and IMO, there is a way that it is. The fact that you kinda have to knot your brain into getting there two or three times over isn't exactly an indication of great writing, I'll admit, but I do think one can justify the reaper's strategy with a few extra assumptions of some circumstances that aren't explicitly explained and things that may happen off screen. (BTW, it's why I never liked smudboy's ME2 videos and the like, he was doing kind of the opposite than I usually am, assuming the worst case, where the plot amkes as little sense as possible.)
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2019 19:00:22 GMT
Surrounding the Citadel while the arms are closed is a big win for the reapers. No ship can enter or leave. What would Shepard do? It's possible he/she could talk to the holo council to let them know about the device, then be reinstated as spectre. The turian councilor says to go to Menae. How long will that take? Is there a relay that can be used to get Shepard to Palaven in the same amount of time instead of using the one near the Citadel? There would be no coup from Cerberus. Or maybe there will be? Doubt it. Definitely no Citadel dlc. The other thing is the thing itself. Is it able to control any part of the Citadel? After talking to Shepard, the ramps to the red and blue are raised while the ramp is extended for the green. If the thing didn't do that, then what/who did? It's possible it could do something that would open the arms allowing the reapers in.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 19:00:46 GMT
Even if they've lost the element of surprise, they have the numbers this time around. Using your premise, they already have slews to indoctrinated from any of the various species in the galaxy who have free access to the Citadel. In ME1, Anderson is able to infiltrate Citadel Control by himself in order to free the Normandy. Security is tighter by the time ME3, but not insurmountably tight, since ME2 continually pokes holes in it... allowing Shepard to even have a discussion with the Citadel guard about "geth infiltration" with a geth standing behind him. Well, by ME3, we see that they contain any newcomers who are not extensively vetted in the refugee area. There is an indoctrinated Hanar in the embassies, but one can assume that, especially once the war starts, they are beefing up security extensively especially around areas like the tower and whatever area the arms control, so even that hanar or most other agents that slip though probably couldn't have gotten there. We can also assume that after the end of ME1, they investigated the systems surrounding the tower a little more closely and didn't just go along with the keepers as much anymore (the fact that they din't do this before is one of the greatest issues I have with ME1 btw).
As for the reaper's numbers, given that they'd still have to come through the mass relay choke points to the Citadel (which is one of it's defenses as mentione in Revelation early on), greater numbers may not matter much. If the arms are closed, they are closed.
Again, I like to try and imagine how the plot as was might be logical and IMO, there is a way that it is. The fact that you kinda have to knot your brain into getting there two or three times over isn't exactly an indication of great writing, I'll admit, but I do think one can justify the reaper's strategy with a few extra assumptions of some circumstances that aren't explicitly explained and things that may happen off screen. (BTW, it's why I never liked smudboy's ME2 videos and the like, he was doing kind of the opposite than I usually am, assuming the worst case, where the plot amkes as little sense as possible.)
I'll rephrase... By the very start of ME3, the Reapers have a number of indoctrinated subjects available to them... at least access to having a number since they've had the Collectors at work abducting "specimens" even prior to the start of ME2 and before they settled down to the policy of just abducting humans. They also have the numbers inside the galaxy at the very start of ME3 to attack the Citadel first... rather than attacking the Batarians (who are of no real consequence by all accounts) and then the Turian and Human home worlds... but leaving Thessia alone until later.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2019 19:15:09 GMT
Well, by ME3, we see that they contain any newcomers who are not extensively vetted in the refugee area. There is an indoctrinated Hanar in the embassies, but one can assume that, especially once the war starts, they are beefing up security extensively especially around areas like the tower and whatever area the arms control, so even that hanar or most other agents that slip though probably couldn't have gotten there. We can also assume that after the end of ME1, they investigated the systems surrounding the tower a little more closely and didn't just go along with the keepers as much anymore (the fact that they din't do this before is one of the greatest issues I have with ME1 btw).
As for the reaper's numbers, given that they'd still have to come through the mass relay choke points to the Citadel (which is one of it's defenses as mentione in Revelation early on), greater numbers may not matter much. If the arms are closed, they are closed.
Again, I like to try and imagine how the plot as was might be logical and IMO, there is a way that it is. The fact that you kinda have to knot your brain into getting there two or three times over isn't exactly an indication of great writing, I'll admit, but I do think one can justify the reaper's strategy with a few extra assumptions of some circumstances that aren't explicitly explained and things that may happen off screen. (BTW, it's why I never liked smudboy's ME2 videos and the like, he was doing kind of the opposite than I usually am, assuming the worst case, where the plot amkes as little sense as possible.)
I'll rephrase... By the very start of ME3, the Reapers have a number of indoctrinated subjects available to them... at least access to having a number since they've had the Collectors at work abducting "specimens" even prior to the start of ME2 and before they settled down to the policy of just abducting humans. They also have the numbers inside the galaxy at the very start of ME3 to attack the Citadel first... rather than attacking the Batarians (who are of no real consequence by all accounts) and then the Turian and Human home worlds... but leaving Thessia alone until later. I understood you above. Yet, no matter how many indoctrinated people there may be you can't say with 100% certainty that they had any indoctrinated servant at the start of ME3, who would have been in a position to reach the arm controls on the Citadel.
As far as not attacking the batarians goes, well, they were in batarian space when they arrived. If the Alpha Relay were still operational, they could have gone straight from the Bahak system to the Citadel (which might very well have been their plan, who knows). However, since that relay was destroyed, they probably had to go through several relays and assuming that the batarians at the very least monitor - but more likely defend - their relays (and that the council probably monitors very closely any relays that connect council space to batarian space, given their strained relationship), there really may not have been any element of surprise to be had, even if they went straight for the Citadel.
As for the asari, it is mentioned in the game that the asari begin fighting the reapers long before they attack Thessia. Might just take them a while to get that far with confidence. On the galaxy map, you can see a clear progression of reaper controlled territories as the game plays out. Again, ME3 takes place over a fairly short time frame. As powerful as the reapers are, they can't do everything at once either and without knowing their exact reasoning, it's tough to say if their reasons for delaying one attack vs. another is foolish or not.
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