Did Geth Heretics ever really exist?

Interesting hypothesis.

The only comment I can make off the top of my head is that "Dr. Archer's Geth" are neither heretics nor "normal". They are under the control of the David-Geth hybrid mind AI, that was driven crazy by the Overlord experiment.

But still, it's a feasible interpretation as far as I can see. After all, we never really interact with the geth other than through Legion as far as I can remember.

That's a really simplistic take on the issue. We're talking lore and not just writing decisions of the team. Unless someone admits to lying how would you know they lied, unless entire scene is built up to that. 

Legion has an obsession with Shepard. It goes so far that he replaced his plate with an N7 suit piece. That is damaged. He lies about not having data available. He lies to Xen about now knowing certain things. He lies to Shepard about going to Geth Pilot base to overwrite some Geth platforms. The entire focus on Shepard by Legion showcases a deeper goal and reasoning being present than just encountering a random Geth.

Part 3 is anything but. Legion claims Geth never wanted to fight but no one ever tried to negotiate with them or come to a settlement. Which is factually incorrect. It can be safely assumed that Quarians tried to surrender and we do know that council sent diplomatic envoys to the Geth which were killed. Also any ship entering Geth space, on purpose or by accident is destroyed. Doesn't leave much to interpretation. And considering they are a concensus that means the destruction of ships and killing of envoys was the decision of Geth as a whole and they bear responsibility for it. 

It's not really a counter-intelligence operation since all he needs to do is convince a single person of it. He does not need to fool the Alliance or Council or Citadel races. He needs to simply convert a man who makes the ultimate decision onto his side. His ability to use his intelligence to put opponents into a trap is best shown on Geth Dreadnought when he disables weapons and BARRIERS baiting Quarians into attacking while Shepard is still onboard. 


When it happened doesn't matter. Geth are immortal and a consciousness. Geth who massacred Quarians are still alive. They are still part of the concensus. Literal platforms from that period can still be alive. What Geth did was worse than what Hitler did by a measure of several thousand times worse, and they are still alive. Would you forgive an immortal Hitler and come to the side of Nazi's that exterminated billions themselves because a random German claims their actions don't matter, he'll just brainwash them a bit and they'll be as good as new?

Outside of Geth space? Sure. But what about inside it. Haestrom. Council envoys sent to Geth space. Merchants wondering in. All of them dead. 

Legions presents the "True Geth" as ones not wanting conflict with Organics and some kind of peaceful hippies, Quarians are bad for not talking with us and asking to come back type of deal. 

And none of which is relevant to organics. Or shows regret for billions genocided

Leaving meta out, there is not any evidence to support the idea that Legion was a crazed one-off stalker bot who had a singular agenda differing from the rest of Geth.

It also seems odd that Legion would think the best chance of success for 'obtaining Reaper code' is to go into organic space and help Shepard with his mission against the Collectors (aka Reaper proxies).


I did not make the claim that Legion or Geth are incapable of lying.

What is the evidence that he lied about the fighter squadron mission? It seems like a circular argument where we have assumed that Legion has lied all along, which proves that he lied about this mission.

What is made clear time and time again is that the Geth understand the concept of self preservation, and as such will defend themselves. Legion does not deny this.

I do not recall Legion saying what you are claiming, at least not in relation to this topic. True geth are obviously capable of killing organics, but they did not go out of their way to do so after the Morning War. This is why the codex states "With the gap in contact between the quarian war and the arrival of Sovereign, the only proven fact about the geth is that they were isolationists for centuries. They never ventured outside the Perseus Veil, but no organic ship that entered their territory ever returned." And why Kaidan makes his comment on Eden Prime. Only those who violated Geth territory were killed.


I said operation because in order for Shepard to have any motivation to go there, Legion would have had to convince the Geth on that server to launch the squadron against the liveships in the first place.

This mission isn't even mandatory, Shepard never has to enter the consensus. Why doesn't Legion put more effort into convincing Shepard to take this mission if you avoid it? He never makes an alternate plan to deceive Shepard in this way. That seems odd if he really had the agenda you are giving him.

Legion disabled the dreadnought so it would no longer destroy Quarian ships, not to cause the Quarians to attack it while everyone was on board. That wouldn't make sense for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that Legion's destruction would end this hypothetical, personal mission.


None of this is evidence that Legion lied about there being two groups of Geth in the present. The game tells you that there was only one group of Geth until they were contacted by Sovereign several hundred years after the Morning War. Whatever atrocities Geth committed also does not have any bearing on whether there was a split between those that wanted to follow the Reapers and those that didn't.

Stupid, or indoctrinated? You make the call!

We have no evidence they were killed or, if they were killed, were killed by non-heretic geth. All we know is they never returned.

Sovereign could have killed them for all we know, as he was trying to convince the geth to hop on his bandwagon. Or maybe they were turned into husks, same as what happened to the crew of the ship we find in ME1.

Now that you said this… they wanted to study the organics, so capturing the trespassers if possible could be their preferred option. Suddenly, this scene makes a lot more sense:

When a single 0 change to 1 are enough to create the heretics, then sure. It's entirely plausible that they exist.