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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 10, 2023 9:00:14 GMT
And given some of the word choice in marketing the 'right' decision could easily be one that might come with a heavy cost associated with it...or a situation where we are so much in the shadows behind the scenes where doing the right thing won't give us any thanks. We'll just be known as 'Rook' like Solas is Fen'Harel. There has always been some element of this with our PC. The Hero of Ferelden is remembered as such, even though they could have been an absolute evil bastard in reality. The Champion of Kirkwall is depicted on the docks as a warrior more like Andraste, even though they could be a mage and not actually killed the Arishok at all. We could see how the image of the Herald was being spun to suit a narrative, regardless of who we really were and whether we approved or not. However, at the end of the day, in each of these cases we are ultimately perceived by the people as the "hero" of that episode in history. So, it would be a twist if our latest PC is genuinely trying to do what is best for the world but, like Fen'Harel, ultimately is remembered as the villain of the story. Or may be those words of Solas in the Behind the Scenes video was just him trying to manipulate us with this suggestion.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 10, 2023 11:24:05 GMT
And given some of the word choice in marketing the 'right' decision could easily be one that might come with a heavy cost associated with it...or a situation where we are so much in the shadows behind the scenes where doing the right thing won't give us any thanks. We'll just be known as 'Rook' like Solas is Fen'Harel. There has always been some element of this with our PC. The Hero of Ferelden is remembered as such, even though they could have been an absolute evil bastard in reality. The Champion of Kirkwall is depicted on the docks as a warrior more like Andraste, even though they could be a mage and not actually killed the Arishok at all. We could see how the image of the Herald was being spun to suit a narrative, regardless of who we really were and whether we approved or not. However, at the end of the day, in each of these cases we are ultimately perceived by the people as the "hero" of that episode in history. So, it would be a twist if our latest PC is genuinely trying to do what is best for the world but, like Fen'Harel, ultimately is remembered as the villain of the story. Or may be those words of Solas in the Behind the Scenes video was just him trying to manipulate us with this suggestion. Two levels to your post. On the one hand I kind of can see where you are coming from. After all, upon reflection, the Hero of Ferelden did kind of engage in some of the clandestine shadow wars that I am expecting for DA 4 given that they were running around in the back country opposing Loghain for a bit. But I really do agree on the 'hero' angle. Which is also kind of the point because I see this as being a thankless task where they have to do a lot of this stuff behind the scenes where the title actually replaces and supplants the name we have. Because in all of Dragon Age to this point our title has pretty much just been for gameplay convenience to deal with the multiple names and other issues but Inquisition actually drew attention to it. But given the very public nature of the Inquisition, and the Inquisitor, and that they were very public. Their name is well known to all of Thedas. So it is likely 'Rook' will be something different since Solas drew attention to it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 10, 2023 14:36:26 GMT
So it is likely 'Rook' will be something different since Solas drew attention to it. Likely "Rook" was a placeholder name, like Joplin and Morrison, which they retained when play testing sections of the game to keep the real identity secret. Likewise that image on the pink book. The PC has probably been "Rook" from the earliest days of development and this may have been an in-house joke because of Solas' skill at chess and may be because there will be an element of moving around like pieces on a chess board in order to thwart him. However, I very much doubt we will end up as "Rook" and was surprised when so many commentators assumed as much after the "leak" based off the earlier pink book. I have no doubt we will be given a title that will be our generic identity and may also have a second title that we acquire over time, as we did with The Warden/Hero; Hawke/Champion and Herald/Inquisitor. After all, the only reason Hawke was their initial identity was because they limited the PC to being from one race and one family, so we had no choice in the matter, whilst with DAO and DAI we had a variety of races, backgrounds and family name, so we had to be given a title that would cover all. Assuming we will be allowed different races/backgrounds to choose from once again, that would suggest a generic title that we are referred to once more. Unless they are really going to push the chess metaphor, I don't see "Rook" as being sufficiently inspiring to be our ongoing title by which other characters refer to us, even if they do go with it being a code name to hide our identity from Solas. To be honest I would find it irritating, which is why a sincerely hope I am right about it being a placeholder. I would be prefer something like them reviving the "Black Fox", a figure of legend who allegedly disappeared with his band of merry men in Arlathan Forest. Perhaps the new Black Fox would solve the mystery of the old one, just like we did with the Inquisitor. Actually a fox would be an appropriate name considering they are meant to be cunning and clever creatures. There also seems to be a theme of creature names with regard to the factions in game, what with the Crows and the Shadow Dragons, the latter's leader being the Viper, whilst it is possible to see people refer to the Grey Wardens as the Griffons. My other problem with "Rook" is that it recalls a comedy sketch from and old show in the U.K., where a couple were at a restaurant called the Rook, where the menu was shaped like a Rook and everything on it contained Rook, so if they called our character "Rook" I would keep thinking of this.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 13, 2023 12:41:09 GMT
Are the Snakes in the Tevinter image of the teaser significant?
They are covering the eastern side of Tevinter on the map. Snakes have long been associated with Tevinter iconography. This is odd because in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC, the snake people seem to be associated with the southern barbarians, who were in opposition to the "Moon men" aligned with Tevinter. The researcher in JoH seems to think the Snake Kings are connected with the Titans because he thinks it is their activity that causes earthquakes. There was a strange group of reptilian fire worshipers in the Descent, so may be the Snake People revered the Titans. That would suggest that perhaps the "Moon men" were elves that worked with Tevinter against them. Of course all those entries could have simply been a gigantic red herring to keep us speculating about nothing important.
However, there is another entry found in JoH connected with the ruins of Razikale. We are never told exactly when the priesthood came there but it would seem around the time that Cory and Co were active because the priesthood mention people fighting over a non existent throne. Clearly the Imperium had the throne of the Archon so may be they were referring to the throne in the Golden/Black City. Another entry, which could be from a different time period, says this:
If the Imperium has fallen, we shall build it anew. This citadel shall be a new Minrathous, and we who serve the Twisted Path shall be its Magisterium. Praise to Razikale—may our raised voices reach her and bring her back to us at last.
This presumably refers to the 1st Blight and the priesthood came here during the period before the Grey Wardens were established, when things definitely looked bleak as the darkspawn appeared unstoppable. They had also stopped receiving communications from the north, so assumed the worst. We know the Old Gods fell silent the moment Dumat emerged, so this would fit with them trying to make contact again, as referred to in other codices. I found the reference to the Twisted Path interesting. A second entry says this:
To She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom, we dedicate this citadel. Dragon of Mystery, bestow upon your faithful servants your ineffable truth. Grant us your eyes to pierce the darkness and souls to bear the wounds of your labyrinth.
The Twisted Path is presumably referring to the labyrinth of Razikale that they must follow in order to make contact. I seem to recall there was a similar reference to a twisted labyrinth in the Descent, which could only be seen from the Fade. So could Razikale be connected in someway with the Snake People and the twisted path recalls the coils of a snake? Is that why the priesthood came here seeking her? Is that why snakes are so prominent in Tevinter iconography because they were originally associated with Razikale, the patron goddess of the kingdom of Tevinter and in particular its capital Minrathous? There was another reference to Razikale in the Western Approach, a stone carving idol, so it would seem the writers were preparing us perhaps for a bigger revelation in DA:D or even the return of the goddess.
I would also note that in Masked Empire, Briala has to follow the path of a labyrinth in order to access the control console of the eluvians. Also, in the hidden chamber where Solas depicted the Titan being attacked, the codex entry says this:
in the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. before recording the words of what would seem to be a priest of Mythal celebrating her victory over the Pillars of the Earth (Titans).
So are snakes in some way connected with the magic of the ancient elves, in particular Mythal? Or was someone else responsible for the runes and the labyrinth? June perhaps?
Anyway, given these references to shifting coils like snakes, labyrinths and the Twisted Path, those snakes shown over Tevinter in the teaser would appear to be significant.
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Post by asen0311 on Jan 9, 2024 15:14:00 GMT
First post on here after being an insane lurker for ages.
Very random thought while starting my new DAI play (just finished replaying DAO and DA2 at breakneck pace after the December teaser).
If some beings can have a spirit/fade form and an earthly material form, if the Void is another overlapping/parallel realm/plane/whatever of existence - in theory couldn't a being have a Void form? So something like some Evanuris or the Forgotten Ones - couldn't they have all 3 forms? Was thinking about this with Falon'din's early game statues and having recently read that Lovecraftian vibes short story set in Tevinter.
EDIT: this has also led me down the matcha-fueled rabbit hole of - if Tranquil can be cut off from the Fade, could someone only be cut off from the Void? And is that what Mythal did to Andruil?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 10, 2024 8:26:24 GMT
If some beings can have a spirit/fade form and an earthly material form, if the Void is another overlapping/parallel realm/plane/whatever of existence - in theory couldn't a being have a Void form? This is an interesting theory. The problem is they have left somewhat ambiguous exactly what the Void is. Clearly it was physically accessible in ancient times but then there was no barrier between the Waking world and the Fade then either. Apparently you needed to know how to get there, though, and this knowledge wasn't generally available. It is interesting that you should mention Falon'Din because there is a codex entry where it states an ancient elven belief about him: Falon’Din had no fear of the night and would walk where the People could not live.Could it be that there is a mistake in the translation concerning the word "night" and in fact that should say the "Void" or at least "Darkness". This could also explain his true association is not with guiding people through the Fade but the Void, and that it may have been his idea originally that Andruil should try hunting there. There is a definite association between Darkness, the Void and the Blight. The Dalish believe the Blight originated in Banalhan, which translates as "place of Nothing", in other words the Void, and Andruil is said to have returned from the Void with a plague that infected her lands and steadily drove her mad. Bearing in mind what we discover in the Temple of Mythal concerning her dealings with Andruil and Falon'Din, and that their shrines are located in the same part of the Temple, that suggests there was some sort of association between them. There is also a Dalish story about Falon'Din carrying a sick deer into the Fade where Dirthamen could not follow him. There seems no reason why Dirthamen could not enter the Fade but the Void would be a different matter and could the sick deer be referring to Andruil? Is the reason Falon'Din was immune to the Void because of his mental link with Dirthamen? Then again, given the aggression and desire for war that we are told about both in the Temple and Trespasser, perhaps he was adversely affected by his prolonged exposure to it. Strangely enough, given the Forgotten Ones were said to inhabit the Void, I did wonder if Falon'Din was the one who could walk in both camps rather than Fen'Harel and, likewise, he was the true betrayer because he engineered the death of Mythal, who up to then did appear to be his arch nemesis. This brings me on to a related topic and that is the role of spirits generally. It is hinted in Tevinter Nights that Fen'Harel appears to have many spirits working for him and it occurs to me that they may well be the main reason he could succeed in his plans or alternatively have them backfire on him. I was pondering on how various people gained access to the knowledge required to use certain items, like Corypheus and the orb or the Tevinter mage and the idol and then it hit me, they found a spirit/demon willing to divulge the information. From what we understand, it was also voices in his dreams, in other words spirits, that gave Corypheus the idea of going to the Black City. This unleashed the Blight on the world. So, what if the spirits talking to him were not speaking from the Fade but the Void? Presumably when Solas raised the Veil, it cut off both the Fade and the Void from the Waking World. The Eternal City (also known as the Golden or Black City) was said to be the home of the gods by the elves and would seem to be either where they were locked away or the gateway to their prison. Even if your theory about two different spirits is not correct, Solas claims to have imprisoned them somewhere that would be an eternal torment. What better place than the Void? If the Old God dragons are some sort of physical form of the Evanuris, rendered tranquil by the loss of the spirit in the Void, then breaking into the Black City freed the spirit to reunite with the dragon,forming the Arch-demon. However, killing the dragon through the dark ritual released the spirit and allowed it to reconnect with the Fade, thus curing it of its madness. This was, after all, a ritual likely devised by Mythal rather than Flemeth on her own initiative. Something like that anyway.
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Post by asen0311 on Jan 10, 2024 16:45:33 GMT
If some beings can have a spirit/fade form and an earthly material form, if the Void is another overlapping/parallel realm/plane/whatever of existence - in theory couldn't a being have a Void form? This is an interesting theory. The problem is they have left somewhat ambiguous exactly what the Void is. Clearly it was physically accessible in ancient times but then there was no barrier between the Waking world and the Fade then either. Apparently you needed to know how to get there, though, and this knowledge wasn't generally available. It is interesting that you should mention Falon'Din because there is a codex entry where it states an ancient elven belief about him: Falon’Din had no fear of the night and would walk where the People could not live.Could it be that there is a mistake in the translation concerning the word "night" and in fact that should say the "Void" or at least "Darkness". This could also explain his true association is not with guiding people through the Fade but the Void, and that it may have been his idea originally that Andruil should try hunting there. There is a definite association between Darkness, the Void and the Blight. The Dalish believe the Blight originated in Banalhan, which translates as "place of Nothing", in other words the Void, and Andruil is said to have returned from the Void with a plague that infected her lands and steadily drove her mad. Bearing in mind what we discover in the Temple of Mythal concerning her dealings with Andruil and Falon'Din, and that their shrines are located in the same part of the Temple, that suggests there was some sort of association between them. There is also a Dalish story about Falon'Din carrying a sick deer into the Fade where Dirthamen could not follow him. There seems no reason why Dirthamen could not enter the Fade but the Void would be a different matter and could the sick deer be referring to Andruil? Is the reason Falon'Din was immune to the Void because of his mental link with Dirthamen? Then again, given the aggression and desire for war that we are told about both in the Temple and Trespasser, perhaps he was adversely affected by his prolonged exposure to it. Strangely enough, given the Forgotten Ones were said to inhabit the Void, I did wonder if Falon'Din was the one who could walk in both camps rather than Fen'Harel and, likewise, he was the true betrayer because he engineered the death of Mythal, who up to then did appear to be his arch nemesis. This brings me on to a related topic and that is the role of spirits generally. It is hinted in Tevinter Nights that Fen'Harel appears to have many spirits working for him and it occurs to me that they may well be the main reason he could succeed in his plans or alternatively have them backfire on him. I was pondering on how various people gained access to the knowledge required to use certain items, like Corypheus and the orb or the Tevinter mage and the idol and then it hit me, they found a spirit/demon willing to divulge the information. From what we understand, it was also voices in his dreams, in other words spirits, that gave Corypheus the idea of going to the Black City. This unleashed the Blight on the world. So, what if the spirits talking to him were not speaking from the Fade but the Void? Presumably when Solas raised the Veil, it cut off both the Fade and the Void from the Waking World. The Eternal City (also known as the Golden or Black City) was said to be the home of the gods by the elves and would seem to be either where they were locked away or the gateway to their prison. Even if your theory about two different spirits is not correct, Solas claims to have imprisoned them somewhere that would be an eternal torment. What better place than the Void? If the Old God dragons are some sort of physical form of the Evanuris, rendered tranquil by the loss of the spirit in the Void, then breaking into the Black City freed the spirit to reunite with the dragon,forming the Arch-demon. However, killing the dragon through the dark ritual released the spirit and allowed it to reconnect with the Fade, thus curing it of its madness. This was, after all, a ritual likely devised by Mythal rather than Flemeth on her own initiative. Something like that anyway. Re: Falon'Din - this was a bit of my train of thought as well. If he was the guide of the dead pre-Veil....where was he guiding them? Since the Fade didn't exist as it currently does, we have to at least somewhat assume the Void. Your last bit about the Archdemons and the Black City words much better something I was rambling with a friend about yesterday in regards to the Void and the Fade as well. I'm also reminded of that early very eldritch Archdemon design from one of the game guides? I know I've seen it around. The other thing that may connect to this (or not at all) is the fact that we always (?) see reference to the Evanuris reaching out in dreams to humans and never (?) to elves. What you said about Corypheus makes my brainworms about humans having a connection to the Void, but elves being somehow severed from it seem more plausible.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 10, 2024 17:05:58 GMT
The other thing that may connect to this (or not at all) is the fact that we always (?) see reference to the Evanuris reaching out in dreams to humans and never (?) to elves. What you said about Corypheus makes my brainworms about humans having a connection to the Void, but elves being somehow severed from it seem more plausible. Even if it wasn't the Evanuris, it always seemed a bit strange to me that straight after the Veil was raised, when it should have been more difficult for mages to connect with the Fade, was the time that the human Dreamers arose and hooked up with the beings that gave them their knowledge. If these spirits were speaking from the Void rather than the Fade, it could account for why they were connecting with humans rather than elves, that according to Corypheus (and Solas?) are specifically connected to the Fade. However, the Dalish also claim there were elves in the time of the Dales that worshiped the Forgotten Ones in order to obtain forbidden power, so it is possible that they made contact with the spirits of the Void too, considering that is where the Forgotten Ones are said to hang out. According to the Last Court, there are some odd elves over in the west in the Tirashan Forest that could be a remnant of these Forgotten Ones worshipers.
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Post by asen0311 on Jan 10, 2024 17:30:39 GMT
The other thing that may connect to this (or not at all) is the fact that we always (?) see reference to the Evanuris reaching out in dreams to humans and never (?) to elves. What you said about Corypheus makes my brainworms about humans having a connection to the Void, but elves being somehow severed from it seem more plausible. Even if it wasn't the Evanuris, it always seemed a bit strange to me that straight after the Veil was raised, when it should have been more difficult for mages to connect with the Fade, was the time that the human Dreamers arose and hooked up with the beings that gave them their knowledge. If these spirits were speaking from the Void rather than the Fade, it could account for why they were connecting with humans rather than elves, that according to Corypheus (and Solas?) are specifically connected to the Fade. However, the Dalish also claim there were elves in the time of the Dales that worshiped the Forgotten Ones in order to obtain forbidden power, so it is possible that they made contact with the spirits of the Void too, considering that is where the Forgotten Ones are said to hang out. According to the Last Court, there are some odd elves over in the west in the Tirashan Forest that could be a remnant of these Forgotten Ones worshipers. Ahhh I always forget about those little guys in the Tirashan. If we don't visit that and Nevarra (for what I'm sure the Mortalitasi know/theorize about the Void) in DA4 I'll be so sad.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 3, 2024 3:39:37 GMT
I was going to post this in the Grey Warden thread, but is it possible for the Grey Wardens to have been attacked by the unknown Red Lyrium attackers/darkspawn before the current timeline/leak? I only ask because Weisshaupt is very close to Tevinter - meaning it would've likely been assaulted by darkspawn at the same time too. There's also the chance it could've happened in the early years when the Wardens were still finding their feet and when Tevinter was distracted - unable to send their assistance. So maybe during the time of the First Exalted March? That would mean either the Darkspawn seized their chance during the confusion or they actively worked with the Alamarri Tribes, elves and the Maker Cult
I could use your help gervaise21 I can't seem to find anything that says Weisshaupt was directly attacked in the past post Blight 2
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 3, 2024 8:21:40 GMT
I could use your help gervaise21 I can't seem to find anything that says Weisshaupt was directly attacked in the past post Blight 2 Not Weisshaupt itself but the Anderfels certainly were attacked during the 4th Blight. That split the Grey Warden forces between the Anderfels and the Free Marches/Antiva. For some reason the middle portion of Thedas seems particularly prone to Blights as well. The Free Marches/Nevarra area, together with southern Tevinter and northern Orlais were the main focus in the 3rd Blight. So that would make it four Blights in a row really, since the Silent Plains were ravaged during the 1st Blight; northern Orlais (plus Montsimmard - which could have been an outlier) and Nevarra, southern Tevinter in the 2nd Bight. Despite darkspawn being able to travel pretty quickly, the Arch-demons don't really capitalize on this. On the whole, they seem to emerge from the Deep Roads, travel to a particular location and then stay pretty much in that area. This is just as well or during the earlier Blights, which were the longest, by rights the majority of the surface should have been corrupted. Also, despite the base camp of the Arch-demon taking much longer to recover, the surrounding areas seem to get back to normal pretty quickly. Antiva and the Free Marches were flourishing again before long after the 4th Blight. If they had not, why would the Qun bother invading? I've also wondered what happened up in Rivain. Considering where the Arch-demon was killed, it never really moved far from Antiva City/northern Antiva. Rivain was just across the bay but it didn't seem to have suffered that much incursion, otherwise there would be no Rivaini Seer culture left. Were they the reason it remained safe? This is why the Anderfels does seem unique in that the darkspawn never really leave the area and it has been a blighted wasteland ever since the 1st Blight. Could that actually be connected with the Grey Wardens' HQ being there? Are darkspawn attracted to them? Or is it the presence of the Arch-demon remains that are stored there? Certainly, it was the corpse of Dumat that was used to entice Corypheus into their prison down south, so could it have had a similar draw on darkspawn and possibly other intelligent darkspawn up north? Incidentally, I wonder if the strange phenomena in Treviso that the latest trailer hints at have anything to do with the Old Gods/Arch-demons? Andoral arose in northern Antiva and something seemed to keep him based in that general area. Was it some shrine to him? Or was it something else that attracted him, such as a load of red lyrium or something else, possibly over which a later structure was built, such as a Circle tower? Now if we do end up going to Nevarra, perhaps there is going to be a connection between the locations based on the Old Gods/Arch-demons. Dumat arose in southern Tevinter and was killed on the Silent Plains; Zazikel arose in the Anderfels although he died near Starkhaven, Toth arose near Marnas Pell (something odd was happening near there in the Missing) and was killed at Hunter Fell, which is not far from Nevarra City and the Necropolis; whilst Andoral arose in northern Antiva and died at Ayesleigh just across the Rialto Bay from Treviso. The only outlier to all these was Urthemial down in Ferelden. Perhaps there was a specific reason for that, although he did seem to stay based in the Lothering area, which isn't far from Lake Calenhad, which had some strange magical legends attached to it. This is part of the reason that the Circle tower was established there because of its strong connection with magical ritual. Incidentally, I've always considered it odd that the Mortalitasi were established in Nevarra some 250 years after the founding of the Chantry, when allegedly everyone in southern Thedas and Tevinter for that matter was meant to be signed up to the new religion. It was an order founded by a Tevinter mage working with Casper Pendargast, with magical burial practices totally at odds with the Chantry religion. So, was she really reviving an old cult that existed in the area in Ancient Tevinter? In fact, given where the Arch-demon arose and died in the 3rd Blight, could the activities of the Mortalitasi have been connected with that in some way? I definitely think that given Solas' strong identification with spirits and the apparent affinity and loyalty they have with Fen'Harel, having a city full of the corpses of ancient warriors occupied by spirits could turn out to be a very bad idea.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 4, 2024 2:04:19 GMT
Are the Snakes in the Tevinter image of the teaser significant? They are covering the eastern side of Tevinter on the map. Snakes have long been associated with Tevinter iconography. This is odd because in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC, the snake people seem to be associated with the southern barbarians, who were in opposition to the "Moon men" aligned with Tevinter. The researcher in JoH seems to think the Snake Kings are connected with the Titans because he thinks it is their activity that causes earthquakes. There was a strange group of reptilian fire worshipers in the Descent, so may be the Snake People revered the Titans. That would suggest that perhaps the "Moon men" were elves that worked with Tevinter against them. Of course all those entries could have simply been a gigantic red herring to keep us speculating about nothing important. However, there is another entry found in JoH connected with the ruins of Razikale. We are never told exactly when the priesthood came there but it would seem around the time that Cory and Co were active because the priesthood mention people fighting over a non existent throne. Clearly the Imperium had the throne of the Archon so may be they were referring to the throne in the Golden/Black City. Another entry, which could be from a different time period, says this: If the Imperium has fallen, we shall build it anew. This citadel shall be a new Minrathous, and we who serve the Twisted Path shall be its Magisterium. Praise to Razikale—may our raised voices reach her and bring her back to us at last.This presumably refers to the 1st Blight and the priesthood came here during the period before the Grey Wardens were established, when things definitely looked bleak as the darkspawn appeared unstoppable. They had also stopped receiving communications from the north, so assumed the worst. We know the Old Gods fell silent the moment Dumat emerged, so this would fit with them trying to make contact again, as referred to in other codices. I found the reference to the Twisted Path interesting. A second entry says this: To She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom, we dedicate this citadel. Dragon of Mystery, bestow upon your faithful servants your ineffable truth. Grant us your eyes to pierce the darkness and souls to bear the wounds of your labyrinth.The Twisted Path is presumably referring to the labyrinth of Razikale that they must follow in order to make contact. I seem to recall there was a similar reference to a twisted labyrinth in the Descent, which could only be seen from the Fade. So could Razikale be connected in someway with the Snake People and the twisted path recalls the coils of a snake? Is that why the priesthood came here seeking her? Is that why snakes are so prominent in Tevinter iconography because they were originally associated with Razikale, the patron goddess of the kingdom of Tevinter and in particular its capital Minrathous? There was another reference to Razikale in the Western Approach, a stone carving idol, so it would seem the writers were preparing us perhaps for a bigger revelation in DA:D or even the return of the goddess. I would also note that in Masked Empire, Briala has to follow the path of a labyrinth in order to access the control console of the eluvians. Also, in the hidden chamber where Solas depicted the Titan being attacked, the codex entry says this: in the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. before recording the words of what would seem to be a priest of Mythal celebrating her victory over the Pillars of the Earth (Titans). So are snakes in some way connected with the magic of the ancient elves, in particular Mythal? Or was someone else responsible for the runes and the labyrinth? June perhaps? Anyway, given these references to shifting coils like snakes, labyrinths and the Twisted Path, those snakes shown over Tevinter in the teaser would appear to be significant. Did the whole cycle of snakes, dragons and rebirth originate in Tevinter or Avvar first? I was thinking recently how the whole dragon rebirth stuff seems aligned with Old Gods being reborn anew into Darkspawn - unless a Warden comes along. With Flemeth taking the OGB soul from Kieran, I wonder if it was possible for OGBs in the past to extend their lifestyles by occupying a new vessel - like Corypheus. Which I think, means potentially that there are still Old God Babies in Theadas running around the place
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 4, 2024 8:56:28 GMT
Did the whole cycle of snakes, dragons and rebirth originate in Tevinter or Avvar first? I think it would be more appropriate to say that the belief began with the barbarian tribes. If the Dalish are to be believed, all humans arrived by sea in the north and then presumably spread southwards. However, it is equally possible that there were multiple entry points in coastal locations. After all, the first Kossith arrived in Thedas from over the sea in southern Ferelden, yet the Qunari arrived first on Par Vollen, which is curious if that was the first landfall of the humans as well. There is also an entire ocean to the west of the landmass we are familiar with and apparently a human/dwarf civilisation across the sea there that long had trade links with the western port settlements. That suggests to me that the southern barbarians may have had their origins across the sea to the west. The Avvar claim that they (the Alamarri) originally lived on the west side of the Frostbacks but were driven over the mountains into Ferelden from fear of the Shadow Goddess. Solas confirmed this story was true in one of his monologues about what he saw in the Fade. If there is another Continent across the sea, possibly it is the same landmass that both the Neromenians and Alamarri originated from but they fled in different directions or perhaps were not fleeing anything but intent on exploration. Anyway, both the Neromenians and the Alamarri believed in reincarnation. The Neromenians specifically believed that their heroes were reborn as dragons. Given the Andraste Cult at Haven believed something similar about her, it is easy to see the connection between the two barbarian cultures. Then in JoH we are given more detail about what the Avvar (who descend from the Alamarri) actually understand about this process. It is also interesting that they say the reborn individual does not remember their former life except in fragmented memories and through dreams. (This would suggest that possibly the Architect had been reborn at least once). This process is also different from the one where they call one of their gods (spirits) into a mortal vessel so it can assist them in the Waking World. This is what they did with Hakkon and when we kill the dragon we free the spirit to return to the Fade. However, it retains its identity, unlike Solas' friend where we didn't just kill the mortal body but the spirit itself. This, of course, sounds a lot like what happened with Mythal after her "death". Then instead of finding someone to call her out into a creature, such as a dragon, she found a willing vessel to receive her in Flemeth, whom she then taught how to shapeshift. Essentially, what I have concluded from all the lore on the matter is that in Thedas no one is truly dead, not even if you see the body. It is possible for the spirit/soul to enter the Fade and wait there to be "reborn", by any number of means, or short cut the process by jumping to a willing host or soulless vessel on death of the mortal body. So, you are correct, theoretically there could be any number of OGBs running around the place or Magisters Sidereal or ancient heroes. It is entirely at the discretion of the writers. If one of our future companions talks of strange visions and fragmented memory recall then be prepared for a "surprise".
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 18, 2024 1:59:04 GMT
Is it possible the Tevinter Magisters have a great deal of Avvar-Blood within them considering the Razikale high-priestess was likely an Avvar?
I was thinking how the Tevinter-Avvar relations could've soothed after Blight 1 began. Considering the scale of Dumat's destruction and how succesful the Avvars were in fighting back the Vints, would Tevinter have offered a "Service = Citizenship" path the Avvar mages could take to help them fight against Dumat?
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 18, 2024 13:03:22 GMT
I was thinking how the Tevinter-Avvar relations could've soothed after Blight 1 began. It wasn't that big an issue back then. Yes, the Vints had outposts down south but likely these were abandoned once the Blight started because it would have been difficult to maintain communication lines and the focus for the Magisters would have been defense of their core Empire, not some freezing cold outpost on its fringes. Also, the Avvar were isolationists. It was the Alamaari with whom the Vints had most contact. During the first 100 years of the Blight, the problems in what is now Ferelden were concerned with the conflict between the lowland Alamaari and the highlander Avvar, rather than the Blight itself. Then after the death of Dumat, the Vints sought to re-establish southern bases, likely in order to acquire resources from places largely untouched by the Blight. Also, by then the dwarf thaigs had fragmented and largely been lost, so their only real source of lyrium was now Orzammar. I must admit this always struck me as odd, that Kal-Sharok should have been lost to everyone until the Dragon Age. There seemed some hint in the codices that perhaps Tevinter knew it had survived and either kept this information secret at the request of Kal-Sharok or thought to benefit by not revealing it to the wider world, particularly Orzammar. It does seem weird, though, that Tevinter wouldn't have tried to maintain contact considering it was far nearer to them than Orzammar. There has to be some reason why the Ambassadoria didn't know (or did they?) and I'm hoping that we get some rational explanation for the mystery of their survival that has been around since DAO.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 18, 2024 22:33:06 GMT
I was thinking how the Tevinter-Avvar relations could've soothed after Blight 1 began. It wasn't that big an issue back then. Yes, the Vints had outposts down south but likely these were abandoned once the Blight started because it would have been difficult to maintain communication lines and the focus for the Magisters would have been defense of their core Empire, not some freezing cold outpost on its fringes. Also, the Avvar were isolationists. It was the Alamaari with whom the Vints had most contact. During the first 100 years of the Blight, the problems in what is now Ferelden were concerned with the conflict between the lowland Alamaari and the highlander Avvar, rather than the Blight itself. Then after the death of Dumat, the Vints sought to re-establish southern bases, likely in order to acquire resources from places largely untouched by the Blight. Also, by then the dwarf thaigs had fragmented and largely been lost, so their only real source of lyrium was now Orzammar. I must admit this always struck me as odd, that Kal-Sharok should have been lost to everyone until the Dragon Age. There seemed some hint in the codices that perhaps Tevinter knew it had survived and either kept this information secret at the request of Kal-Sharok or thought to benefit by not revealing it to the wider world, particularly Orzammar. It does seem weird, though, that Tevinter wouldn't have tried to maintain contact considering it was far nearer to them than Orzammar. There has to be some reason why the Ambassadoria didn't know (or did they?) and I'm hoping that we get some rational explanation for the mystery of their survival that has been around since DAO. Maybe that would go hand-in-hand with the theories that Kal-Sharok is the home to the remaining Magister Sidereal? I'm not sure if that's enough to keep it on the down low from the rest of Thedas though - but maybe the dwarves and the Magisters have worked together on a government that suits them away from either side of the chantry?
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 19, 2024 9:47:27 GMT
but maybe the dwarves and the Magisters have worked together on a government that suits them away from either side of the chantry? A group of Old God cultists would work for me. That could have involved individual Magisters working to their own agenda or even a Magister Sidereal. Kal-Sharok had never been happy about King Stonehammer shifting his power base to Orzammar and I really don't see him doing that because he was worried about the Imperium. The dwarves have always been on good terms with them. Kal-Sharok knew something more though. They destroyed Cad'Halash because they helped the elves of Arlathan after the destruction of the city in the forest. I'm sure all the dwarf concept art is related to Kal-Sharok and will be very disappointed if we don't at least have a companion from there who can tell us more. However, given Kal-Sharok is the oldest of the Thaigs (aside from the Ancient Thaig in DA2) and was closest to the action during the 1st Blight, there have to be some secrets there that are relevant to the latest plot. There is nothing in the Memories of Orzammar to trace to the ancient times of the elves but the Memories didn't start there and in any case, Memories can be changed.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 20, 2024 2:28:40 GMT
Is it possible for an Old God baby to give their Old God soul to someone else and "become" a normal person? In DAI we saw Flemeth drag the Old God soul out of Kieran, meaning she must have have some ancient magic powers to do that - but what if Kieran wanted to give it someone else instead?
And would it work on a Grey Warden? Obviously a Warden killing an Archdemon takes it's soul and both die, but that's *technically* after killing it. Not someone else giving it willingly to them.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 20, 2024 13:09:41 GMT
Is it possible for an Old God baby to give their Old God soul to someone else and "become" a normal person? I suppose we will understand the process better when we discover what in the hell happened between Flemeth and Solas. Did he take the soul or did Mythal simply abandon Flemeth? What did Flemeth put into the eluvian before he turned up? Was that Flemeth's soul or just a piece of Mythal? What about Urthemiel's soul that she took from Kieran? In that world state there were potentially 3 souls inhabiting Flemeth's body, although she seemed to suggest that Flemeth and Mythal had been together so long they had merged together to be almost indistinguishable. Then there is Anders. Justice was inhabiting a dead body that he had merely animated, so was the only soul/spirit there but then he transferred to Anders with the latter's permission. Some years back DG said that there was no reason why Justice couldn't leave Anders, it was just that neither of them wanted him to go. If you kill Anders, DG also said that Justice would live on. Would that be by reviving his corpse after you left the scene or simply returning to the Fade? We should also not forget the case of the Avvar and their way of training mages, which is to deliberate use a friendly spirit to possess them, which presumably keeps them safe from demons. Then usually, except in the case of the girl in JoH, once they are sufficiently advanced in their training, they have a ritual that causes the spirit to depart and return to the Fade. In her case she didn't want the spirit to leave, so she was banished from the community. Finally, there are the Rivaini Seers, who are said to become deliberately possessed in order to gain wisdom and so far as we know the spirit never leaves. So, it would certainly seem that if both parties mortal and spirit are willing, the spirit/soul can enter or leave when they choose. The spirit/soul of an OGB is probably strong and knowledgeable enough that it could transfer to another host if it wanted to. It is just that prior to encountering Flemeth, it had no incentive to. It was also implied that originally Flemeth/Mythal was planning on doing the opposite and transferring to Kieran (who after all had a much younger body). However, after Morrigan guilt tripped her, she opted for taking the OGB soul instead, which was presumably happy to do so. I assume the reason the transfer of Flemeth/Mythal to Solas then occurred is because he was still younger and in better condition (having been in hibernation for millennia) than Flemeth. Also, the bodies of ancient elves may differ from that of normal mortals because they weren't born but took on the shape on leaving the Fade, which then became more permanent over time so long as they stayed in the Waking World. It was also possible for these bodies to be healed or sustained through entering Uthenera but each time they left it would age/deteriorate/become just a little bit more mortal.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 22, 2024 2:57:29 GMT
Could Leliana and Morrigan be distantly related to each other?
I know I know I keep harping on Andraste/Flemeth being related to each other, but if they were and Leliana was Andrastes descendant (as fans think) then that would mean the two are cousins?
I was thinking in a codex entry how Leliana had the strongest Blight resistance to the taint - could there be a reason behind this? Maybe an Archdemon soul? :happy:
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Post by githcheater on Mar 22, 2024 3:13:10 GMT
Could Leliana and Morrigan be distantly related to each other? Imagine the drama at a family reunion or during holiday get togethers.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 22, 2024 11:27:39 GMT
Could Leliana and Morrigan be distantly related to each other? It is certainly possible. Flemeth has had multiple daughters so at least one of them could have had started her own line further back in time, which resulted in Leliana. Alternatively, Leliana's mother could have been Flemeth's daughter by a different father a few years earlier. Funnily enough, I don't recall Leliana ever speaking of her father, only her mother. That would suggest that possibly he was only used for sex and then played no further part in her upbringing, as was clearly the case with Morrigan. May be Leliana's mother was a "failed" project, a daughter who rejected Flemeth at an early age. Leliana could well have a magical bloodline since she experienced that vision immediately before meeting with the Warden and they are generally more likely to occur in either mages or people with magical ancestors. For example, Drakon claimed to have had a vision from the Maker and whilst he was not a mage, he was the grandson of a Tevinter Magister. Certainly, both Leliana's parents were from Ferelden as in Masked Empire PW writes that she had features that were distinctly that of a native of Ferelden, whatever that was meant to mean, since it didn't specifically relate to her red hair. This being the case, the other possibility for her resistance to the Blight could be that she is a descendant of Calenhad via an illegitimate line. In fact she could even be the daughter of Maric. Since Goldana believed he had fathered a child by her mother and he had Alistair by Fiona, he clearly couldn't keep it in his pants after the death of his Queen and possibly before that too.
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Mar 23, 2024 8:22:57 GMT
These are dark times,door to door Evangelical Qunari are banging on your door wanting to preach the gospel of the Qun,Mad wizards are summoning milkshake stealing Dragon gods but You are a Schleet,you own the night your only mission is to lay as many eggs in the eyes of suitable hosts as your prowl the back alleys of Minrathous. This is the true version of the game,Dragon age Schleet thunder!
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 23, 2024 18:54:35 GMT
Could humans be descendants of a 5th Race we haven't learned of yet? I haven't read WoT but as far as I know humans came from the North and descended downwards - is it possible they could've also ascended upwards at the same time from the Uncharted Territories?
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 24, 2024 6:47:36 GMT
I thought over how a First Warden relationship with a Magister Sidereal could play out - would it just be cordial and a friendship between the two? Or would it be like Vader and Sidious where the First Warden is just a figurehead to the Commanders while the Magister is really in control?
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