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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2024 23:07:30 GMT
Who would've had the most to gain from the Blights? I mean, if it was a cordinated attack, who would've gained from Tevinter and the Dwarven Empires being destroyed and most of the population being killed in the process? the most likely candidate is the Evanuris since the Blights weaken the Veil but then there could be something in the deep that also wants to be free and the Old God Dragons are their seals.
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catcher
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Post by catcher on Sept 19, 2024 1:47:03 GMT
The Primeval Thaig has a unique ring called the "carved ring of the Vhenadahl" as loot and Solas claims to be the master of the idol in Tevinter Nights. Both these suggest the Thaig had elven habitants at some point. Missed the ring so that is one point I will accede. I still don't remember any of the statues being of the elven variety seen often in DA:O and they had the models. Neither were there comments from Varric or other companions about any elven component to the setting eventhough there were comments in the Breccilian Ruins about them being mixture of elven and human elements. The Claws of Dumat do appear quite liberally in the thaig but I'll talk more about them later. The codex for it says that it's not mentioned at all in the memories and they are supposed to go back as far as the 1st Thaig, But Valdasine staff being there suggest it is that specific thaig. That codex also says the Dwarves who found it in 8:48 believe it could only have been built via magic (also it suggest the idol was taken from there in 8:48...how did it go back? or there was a set?). The Gates of Segrummar had magic involved, so magic being used for the Primeval Thaig might not be out of the ordinary back then: dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Note:_The_Gates_of_Segrummar. As I said, I tend to think this is indeed Valdasine Thaig, but I also think the magic in question is NOT due to the elves. Total theory but hang with me here. One clue is from all the way back in DA:O at the Assembly in Orzamarr, all the deshyrs wield staves as their badge of office (apparently). Why? Then there is the staff itself for which the lore says That woring is oddly specific, don't you think. Then, in Descent we learn that dwarves can have magic-like powers like the Sha-Brytol and later Valta. Then there are mysteries of magic like Sandal and later Dagna. In short, I think that long forgotten King of Dwarves (unnamed in the lore), knew a secret that was continually suppressed through the ages, that dwarves had done 'real' magic and had lost that ability. No elves, egg-headed or otherwise need apply. There are multiple (techncially) none-dwarven statues in that place. One looks very similar to the "The Claw of Dumat" in Here Lies the Abyss fade section (named after the codex dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Note:_The_Claws_of_Dumat) in DAI. Similar statues can be found elsewhere in-game. Near Heidrun Thaig in The Descent (Heidrun Thaig sit atop an empty "old god" prison). I believe the dwarven structure under Lake Calenhad (Crestwood map) also has some and that dwarven area has ambient dialogue that suggest something is wrong architecturally about it f I remember correctly. First, a minor correction. The caves of Crestwood that connect to the Dwarven outpost are not under Lake Calenhad. The lake there is an artificial one created and drained with the control of a dam. Crestwood is north of Calenhad. Second, I don't remember there being any unusual states or commentary in the Drawven Outpost section of Crestwood and I'm pretty sure I checked there thoroughly when doing a tour looking for precisely that. I am open to proof that I just don't remember correctly. I'm old and it doesn't take much to distract me. There are many parallels between Heidrun and Valdasine but that suggests little about some kind of elvish connection. If we assume that the 'Claws of Dumat' were inspired directly by one of the corrupted Evanuris imitating Dumat, maybe that's a possibility but we saw nothing like that in the Deep Roads section of Trespasser. Maybe that's because that was a 'Mythal and Fen'Harel' area? What we can surmise out of the two is that there seems to be some kind of link between lyrium abundance, the presence of these 'Claws of Dumat' statues, Rock Wraiths, and possibly Archdemon prisons. The Forbidden Oasis has a different statue in a similar style in there somewhere I think too, but it's multi-culture-central. And the Astranium caves seems to be using similar metal/design too...and that means Razikale's Reach fits too. Basically, it's a Dwarven-Elven-Tevinterish Thaig. Now that, I'm pretty sure I would have remembered. What area of the Forbidden Oasis specifically was it found in because I don't remember anything like that, even inside the Pride Vault of the Ancient Elven Temple. The whole temple interior is actually kind of bland architecturally IIRC. Astrarium caves should match Razikale's Reach (and indeed any typical Tevene buildings like Coracovus or the Still Ruins) with their very angular designs but they are visually quite distinct from Elven (Dales or older) and Dwarven structures. All in all, Dwarves have been piss poor at keeping their history books and they had either Elven and/or early Tevinter help to build things. We already know from Valta that the perfect Memories are a myth that can be altered for the right price or prestige or threat. Really no surprise there. Some of the inconsistencies in DA2 are surprising though since that's within the same game. Since the Valdasine entry does not mention an idol but the Primeval Thaig entry does means the Fen'Harel (or something else) placed it there later. Note that all almost all the lyrium veins in the thaig are corrupted to red while the ones under Heidrun are not. I'm pretty sure that the red lyrium idol is placed in Valdasine later after the final sealing and before the poor scavenger got there. How it got back, or if there were more and that's one of the reasons red is popping up everywhere in Inquisition, is a mystery that's not the fault of the dwarves. It is a puzzle. Good talking with you.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 19, 2024 2:14:26 GMT
Now that, I'm pretty sure I would have remembered. What area of the Forbidden Oasis specifically was it found in because I don't remember anything like that, even inside the Pride Vault of the Ancient Elven Temple. The whole temple interior is actually kind of bland architecturally IIRC. Astrarium caves should match Razikale's Reach (and indeed any typical Tevene buildings like Coracovus or the Still Ruins) with their very angular designs but they are visually quite distinct from Elven (Dales or older) and Dwarven structures. I went to the Forbidden Oasis recently and it's more the material than actually the statue that is similar finally. I actually took pics of all the statues in the Forbidden Oasis a few days ago: bsn.boards.net/post/1647857The blackish metal statues are mostly among Tevinter structures outside those Thaigs and Dwarves usually use stone as material (except for the Legion of the Dead mausoleum in Bownammar). As for the Thaig under the water, I think it's Varric who mention that the lack of lights is weird. It's been 3 months since I played it, I'll get back there soon enough on my current PT.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 19, 2024 7:51:28 GMT
Who would've had the most to gain from the Blights? Those who can control the blighted creatures. We know there are darkspawn drones that simply just seem to be there mindlessly to serve the Arch-demon or its proxy. However, we also know there are intelligent darkspawn that do seem to have a degree of free will, although ultimately we don't know how much Corypheus may have been in thrall to Dumat since he seemed so in tune to his god that they were even able to use its corpse to entrap him. So, when Hawke freed him from his prison, he was still confused and questioning his god but oddly enough, after "killing" him which allowed him to transfer to a new body, his mind was much clearer and he was no longer in thrall to Dumat, except right at the end when he lost faith in himself, so reverted to his original "faith" in Dumat. Interestingly, Urthemiel also seemed to be freed of whatever controlled his mind when you do the dark ritual or at the very least transferred his consciousness to the control of someone else. He was apparently plagued by dreams, possibly sent by Flemeth/Mythal or how could she assure him he would no longer have them when the old god soul left him? The Architect was also able to free the darkspawn of their subservience to the "song" of the Old Gods but in the case of the Mother this sent her mad, although that could have had something to do with her situation as a brood-mother. After all, they were originally ordinary females of their respective races, captured and abused in multiple ways to transform them into what they are. If their mind is freed from the call of the Arch-demon, perhaps all that is left is the memory of what was done to them. No wonder they would go insane as a result. The Arch-demons/Old Gods may also have been an extension of or subservient to the Evanuris who controlled the Blight/tainted creatures in ancient times. So, essentially, whoever was behind the Blights originally, the object was worship and subservience when it came to destroying those that stood in their way. The taint gave them power and control over the minds of those infected with it, it killed or transformed those who opposed them when they came into contact with it. Even the Architect's original solution to the problem of co-existence with a hostile world was to transform everyone into darkspawn. Hence, in ancient times when Solas and his buddies discovered what the Evanuris had been doing, they sealed the caverns in the Deep Roads and he said: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all." In that respect he was saving the world and all living things from destruction by the Blight but ended up destroying the magical world of the elves as a result. In wanting to restore that by removing the Veil, he was trying to recover what once was and possibly was hoping to use the magical power unleashed to cleanse the world of the Blight once and for all, so in his mind he wasn't destroying the world (despite the carnage that might have ensued) but healing it. At least, that is how I understand the situation in advance of further revelations.
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Post by q5tyhj on Sept 19, 2024 13:19:44 GMT
Who would've had the most to gain from the Blights? I mean, if it was a cordinated attack, who would've gained from Tevinter and the Dwarven Empires being destroyed and most of the population being killed in the process? I don't think the end goal of the tainted "would-be-gods" is to kill everyone. They want to be worshipped and scare the mass into doing it like Corypheus was doing. As Solas says about the cult in the Hinterlands (paraphrasing): make sense that people would worship the Breach in the hope of appeasing it. Now thought, I actually have the crazy theory that the Taint itself wants to wipe out all life and is manipulating those that contact it to achieve that goal. I've seen people think of the Taint as some sort of bacteria or fungus, but I think it is an antibody and humans, elves, dwarve, qunari are seen as the bacteria/virus to eliminate. one theory I like is that blight is like a sickness or corruption that develops when a Titan is sundered from its "children" (and/or its heart) and is no longer able to maintain the "balance": the Evanuris hunted down Titans and removed their hearts to make their orbs, and the damaged Titans develop this infection (Blight) that leads to... bad stuff. But so its sort of a biological or physiological function of Titans that has run amok due to the Evanuris harvesting the Titans body parts (their heart, specifically) for their magical uses.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 19, 2024 14:48:21 GMT
But so its sort of a biological or physiological function of Titans that has run amok due to the Evanuris harvesting the Titans body parts (their heart, specifically) for their magical uses. I think it definitely had something to do with the misuse of magic originally, may be even the magic they used to kill or tame the Titans. When we visit the Sacred Ashes site at the beginning of the game, Varric expresses surprise at finding red lyrium there and he and Cassandra are so busy speculating between them that they completely miss Solas' contribution that it likely had something to do with the magical explosion corrupting the lyrium. We know from DAO and Oghran that the whole mountain was basically a pile of lyrium so the explosion would explain the exposed lyrium and Solas gave a reason why it was tainted. Also, it would seem that the Temple may originally have been dedicated to Mythal and then repurposed and that made for another connection with the Evanuris and one of the principles connected with the conquest of the Titans.
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