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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2024 8:00:17 GMT
Whatever the devs spoiled makes me believe there were probably dragon kings, like Titans. And it's the first war the elves fought, that whole Elgar'nan defeated the sun business. Yavana said Dragons were the blood of the world, (whatever that means) and they ruled the skies. They may also be connected with the Titans directly, being their children above ground whilst the dwarves were below. In the Descent the darkspawn avoided the area closest to the Titan and dragons are said to be resistant to the taint, forming cysts around it (we see this on the "tainted" dragons in the trailer). There has to be a reason why the Evanuris decreed dragon forms as exclusive to the gods and their chosen and this may well be because they were the most powerful forms of their defeated enemies. When Mythal put the titans to sleep and broke their connection to the dwarves it likely broke their hold over the dragons too, which Mythal then claimed. The only thing that mitigates against this is the fact that the codex in the Hissing Wastes suggested that dwarves were fearful of dragons but perhaps that was because they had forgotten their ancient connection with them, just as they had forgotten the Titans except as a vague reference to the Stone. Also, it does seem strange that the elves would ask Elgar'nan to "burn the ground under his gaze" and "bring Winged Death" to the Earth that destroyed their work but may be this was at a later stage, long after the "dragons ruled the skies" when perhaps a Titan had been disturbed in its slumber and caused earthquakes. The codex does specifically reference his use of lightning which can also burn. I would also note how he is referred to as Wrath and Thunder and the latest trailer confirmed the fact that Weisshaupt was beset by dark storm clouds as a prelude to the attack upon it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2024 8:05:39 GMT
I don't think the big war was against the Forgotten Ones. No, I'm sure the big war was against the Titans, and the dragons if the two were connected (see above post) The Forgotten Ones were definitely meant to have been fighting with the Evanuris at the time Fen'Harel shut them away and since he was also said to have betrayed them as they saw him as a friend, I'm fairly certain they were his fellow rebel leaders. Since their names are remembered (or at least the three main ones were) I assume they were collectively known as the Forgotten Ones because the Evanuris ordered their followers to forget them as traitors. Also, we know at least some of their followers survived because they were active in the Dales until the priesthood banished them and then likely ended up in the Tirashan. Could we be seeing them in the game, bearing in mind they weren't just referenced in the Last Court but also in Trespasser. EDIT: Or may be they will keep them back for a subsequent game after the gods have been dealt with. Gelduran said he would wait for their Pride to consume the gods and would then rise in mastery. In other words, he will let Fen'Harel deal with the Evanuris and then take advantage of the power vacuum that would result.
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Post by illuminated11 on Aug 27, 2024 8:31:09 GMT
I was thinking about this too. We know the Evanuris were at war with something, most people assume the Forgotten Ones, but maybe it was originally Great Dragons? And then they enslaved the dragons as victory trophies, and started in fighting once the war was over. I don't think the big war was against the Forgotten Ones. Elgar'nan fought something big, lots of talk about him beating his father the Sun. I don't think it's the actual Sun, but dragons would fit the bill, being in the sky breathing fire. Perhaps the proto elves had a symbiotic relationship with dragons at first, like the dwarves and Titans. I like this because it fits with BioWare’s tendency to flip the master-slave paradigm on its head. So elves originally beholden to dragons, only to instead become their masters. Also, it seems like dragon blood might have something to do with a potential cure for the Joining, and darkspawn are weak to fire.
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Post by illuminated11 on Aug 27, 2024 8:33:43 GMT
Do we think we'll see more of the Sidereal? Like the Forgotten Ones, the Magisters Sidereal have all but been forgotten in recent speculation but since both groups were referenced in a codices in DAI and associated DLC, it is likely the writers haven't forgotten them. I suppose a lot depends on resources. Perhaps they couldn't allow the story to get more complicated than it already was. After all, allegedly they were going to use the Architect in DAI and then decided against it. Still, expect the unexpected! True, there’s already a lot going on. We’re in Tevinter though, I’d be bummed if this was the one game where you don’t get to meet an ancient magister. Also, imagine if you could potentially form an alliance with the magisters and help them free the archdemons from the influence of Ghilan’nain and Elgarnan? There’s so much potential there for drama and betrayal, haha.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 27, 2024 12:18:00 GMT
To go back to my humans were worshipping the Evanuris things. The lore tell use that humans (Neromenians) thought their great heroes and kings reincarnated into dragons and that was the reasons for them to fall into the Old Gods worshipping away from the Maker. Doesn't that sound like the explanation Solas gave about the Evanuris? First general (heroes), then kings and finally gods (dragons). Also, I starting to think that humans are just dwarf/elf descendants and over thousand of years there was enough of them to be their own sub-species. I was thinking about this too. We know the Evanuris were at war with something, most people assume the Forgotten Ones, but maybe it was originally Great Dragons? And then they enslaved the dragons as victory trophies, and started in fighting once the war was over. I don't think the big war was against the Forgotten Ones. Elgar'nan fought something big, lots of talk about him beating his father the Sun. I don't think it's the actual Sun, but dragons would fit the bill, being in the sky breathing fire. Perhaps the proto elves had a symbiotic relationship with dragons at first, like the dwarves and Titans. That one (in bold) might very well turn into an in-setting translation error since Elgar (spirit) and Elgara (sun) are quire similar. And per Cassandra, the stories gets bigger every time it is retold and in her cases it has only been 20ish years...
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Post by illuminated11 on Aug 27, 2024 12:25:51 GMT
To go back to my humans were worshipping the Evanuris things. The lore tell use that humans (Neromenians) thought their great heroes and kings reincarnated into dragons and that was the reasons for them to fall into the Old Gods worshipping away from the Maker. Doesn't that sound like the explanation Solas gave about the Evanuris? First general (heroes), then kings and finally gods (dragons). Also, I starting to think that humans are just dwarf/elf descendants and over thousand of years there was enough of them to be their own sub-species. I don't think the big war was against the Forgotten Ones. Elgar'nan fought something big, lots of talk about him beating his father the Sun. I don't think it's the actual Sun, but dragons would fit the bill, being in the sky breathing fire. Perhaps the proto elves had a symbiotic relationship with dragons at first, like the dwarves and Titans. That one (in bold) might very well turn into an in-setting translation error since Elgar (spirit) and Elgara (sun) are quire similar. And per Cassandra, the stories gets bigger every time it is retold and in her cases it has only been 20ish years... I thought humans came from across the sea though? Or am I mixing them up with the kossith.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2024 13:14:21 GMT
I thought humans came from across the sea though? Or am I mixing them up with the kossith. Both groups did and from roughly the same direction. The Neromenians first made landfall on Par Vollen when it came to the humans, whilst the first Kossith would seem to have made landfall in southern Ferelden and never moved much beyond that location. It was the Qunari that landed on Par Vollen when they came from over the sea. I've often wondered if the human tribes that became the Alamarri, Chasind, Ciriane and Avvar originated from the west side of Thedas rather than breaking off from the Neromenians some time early in their history. Certainly the Alamarri speak of crossing the Frostbacks to escape a Shadow Goddess, which Solas confirmed to be true as he had encountered the spirit they were seeking to escape from. It is unclear how far west the lands extend but we know there was a civilisation of humans and dwarves (but no elves it would seem) across the sea on the west side of Thedas, so they could have come from there but equally from land based origins.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 27, 2024 13:17:45 GMT
To go back to my humans were worshipping the Evanuris things. The lore tell use that humans (Neromenians) thought their great heroes and kings reincarnated into dragons and that was the reasons for them to fall into the Old Gods worshipping away from the Maker. Doesn't that sound like the explanation Solas gave about the Evanuris? First general (heroes), then kings and finally gods (dragons). Also, I starting to think that humans are just dwarf/elf descendants and over thousand of years there was enough of them to be their own sub-species. That one (in bold) might very well turn into an in-setting translation error since Elgar (spirit) and Elgara (sun) are quire similar. And per Cassandra, the stories gets bigger every time it is retold and in her cases it has only been 20ish years... I thought humans came from across the sea though? Or am I mixing them up with the kossith. Kossith/Qunari, but it's easy to confuse since Dalish claims humans are from Par Vollen, which is where the Qunari settled when they came over. In-settings, the origins of humans is disputed by scholars and Alamarri stuff doesn't fit the group that settled up north anyway. Lots of people hopes that DAVe will offer more there, because it's actually the setting greatest mystery. Also, what we know of Par Vollen pre-Qunari is pyramids, suns and horned rulers...
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2024 13:25:27 GMT
Kossith/Qunari, but it's easy to confuse since Dalish claims humans are from Par Vollen, which is where the Qunari settled when they came over. In-settings, the origins of humans is disputed by scholars. The Fog Dancers of Seheron have their own version of these events. They speak of the March of the Four Winds and people lost to the northern islands, suggesting that perhaps the early humans sent flotillas in many directions seeking safe sanctuary. They also speak of their great heroes who "learned at the feet of the elves". That would also suggest a time in antiquity before the elves went into retreat or Tevinter colonised the island. They also speak of an ancient Curse of Nahar, which brought the fog, "and the promise that will one day lift it". Still waiting to learn more about this. They also claim the griffons originated on Seheron. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Seheron is going to feature in the game and unless we encounter a native of the island in the course of our travels, it is unlikely we are going to learn anything new this game.
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Post by dreadcat on Aug 27, 2024 23:33:30 GMT
The Black City’s true purpose I know the most popular theory is that it’s the prison of the Evanuris and I agree with that but I think the true purpose of the Black City is that it contains the source of the Blight itself : the Blighted Heart of a Titan. I agree with the theory that it was a Blighted Titan which the Elves woke up in the Deep Roads causing them to seal it, but I think something else happened : Mythal made a spiritual/psychic connection with the Blighted Titan calming it down and resealing the Blight inside its Heart/Core but the rest of the Evanuris wanted the Blight’s power so they moved this Titan’s Heart into the Golden City, the Evanuris tried to convince Mythal to release the Blight but she refused so they killed her, when Mythal died the psychic link with the Titan broke and the Blight was released from its Heart/Core causing the Golden City to turn Black and become Blighted It doesn't even have to be as complicated as moving the tainted heart to the Golden City in the Fade because to a great extent everything in the Fade tends to mirror the material world. My theory was that the Golden City reflected a real city in the Deep Roads inside a Titan. The Wellspring in the Descent did make me think of the descriptions of Arlathan. The city in the Deep Roads became corrupted and so Solas/Mythal sealed it with magic. However, the city in the Fade still looked Golden because that is how the majority of people knew and remembered it. Solas tricked the Evanuris into his trap by leaving a clue that they could access the ultimate weapon (either the idol or the city itself) through the Fade equivalent. Then he closed that off too. Now everything was safely contained even though city in the Fade gradually took on the attributes of the city in the Deep Roads because of a connection between them (which is why the Black City is always a constant rather than changing as the rest of the Fade does unless under the control of a powerful demon). Then the Magisters broke into the Fade City, revealing what was contained within and their discovery of the truth meant it turned black outwardly as well as inside. They were then transported to the real Black City in the Deep Roads where they had also broken the seals keeping it locked away. Armies of darkspawn that had been locked away were now released on the unsuspecting dwarves and ultimately the surface and the history of Blights began. To deal with the problem likely we first have to deal with the blighted Titan in the Deep Roads and then the tainted city in the Fade. The reason Solas wanted to drop the Veil was likely to help with this because it would awaken the Titans en mass and it would be their actions that would cleanse the world and probably the Fade too, since lyrium, their blood, is the one constant that is found in both places. If that was the case then why did the Old Gods/Evanuris tricked the Tevinter Magisters into entering the Black City instead of just telling them to go to the Deep Roads if the actual/material Black City is just located there? It would have been far easier for the Magisters to have went to the Deep Roads to release the Blight rather than the monumental task of ordering them to breach the Fade to physically enter the Black City. It seems everything in the lore points to the Black City in the Fade to be the center of the Blight rather than the Deep Roads. Even Avernus in DAO stated the answer to the Taint is in the Black City in the Fade. Personally I think the the Black City in the Fade is not just a mirror reflection of the real Black City in the Deep Roads, the one in the Fade is the Black City from the material world that's why it's the only geographical constant in the Fade because it's the only real physical location there while the rest are just Fade mirror images of the material world.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2024 8:13:48 GMT
If that was the case then why did the Old Gods/Evanuris tricked the Tevinter Magisters into entering the Black City instead of just telling them to go to the Deep Roads if the actual/material Black City is just located there? I'm assuming because it wasn't possible to break the seals physically without first breaking them spiritually. That is why Solas likely thought he had created a fail safe prison and containment of the Blight because he never imagined that mere human ages would ever achieve that level of knowledge and power to break into the Black City in the Fade. Even Avernus in DAO stated the answer to the Taint is in the Black City in the Fade. Which was true because not only was one linked to the other but also the gateway to the prison of the gods was through the Black City and they were responsible for the spread of the Blight in the first place. There is definitely something horrific and potentially world destroying in the depths of the Deep Roads. After the vision of the elves heralding Mythal for defeating the Titans, it says a great deal of time passes and then: " A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast. A voice whispers: What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 28, 2024 8:25:18 GMT
Personally I think the the Black City in the Fade is not just a mirror reflection of the real Black City in the Deep Roads, the one in the Fade is the Black City from the material world that's why it's the only geographical constant in the Fade because it's the only real physical location there while the rest are just Fade mirror images of the material world. There is some element of truth in this. Probably it is something along the lines of the Black City being simultaneously in the Fade and the Deep Roads, which as you say gives it its permanence. Maybe that is why the Magisters entered through the Fade but came out in the Deep Roads. The two are connected in some way but I think the corrupted Titan is connected with it. Perhaps Mythal originally created her city within the body of the defeated titan and then it became corrupted, possibly on her death because it was her magic that prevented it from decomposing. Alternatively, she had absorbed the plague that Andruil was carrying when she fought her and killing her released the taint once more. There is definitely a connection between the mining of lyrium and Mythal, so presumably there is likely a connection between red lyrium and her in some way as well. If the blade Solas was using is the same one that can be drawn from the idol, then apparently he would appear to have cleansed it. I think the idol was meant to depict Mythal. Originally it may have been created by the dwarves she controlled to honour her and was uncorrupted lyrium but transformed on her death. So, Solas was able to restore it to its original condition, likely because of the power he now had from Mythal within him.
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Post by illuminated11 on Aug 28, 2024 23:08:23 GMT
Could the corpse of the titan be part of the Deep Roads? Hell, could it BE the Deep Roads?
I'm reminded of the story about the Mountain Father, the one where his heart was stolen. (Ptarmigan=Solas? Could other birds equate to other Evanuris, potentially?) Maybe the heart has to be returned to the body for... something to happen, not sure what.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 28, 2024 23:17:00 GMT
The bit about Arlathan being sunk into the ground suddenly would make a lot more sense it just wasn't the magisters who did it.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 28, 2024 23:58:51 GMT
Could the corpse of the titan be part of the Deep Roads? Hell, could it BE the Deep Roads? I'm reminded of the story about the Mountain Father, the one where his heart was stolen. (Ptarmigan=Solas? Could other birds equate to other Evanuris, potentially?) Maybe the heart has to be returned to the body for... something to happen, not sure what. His heart wasn't stolen, he hide it away, so he didn't have anymore emotions (the whole thing sound like tranquility irc). Also, that story is one of three where Korth The Mountian Father parallel Andruil in a Dalish/Elven legend...which means that Ptarmigan was not Solas, Andruil and him hated each others guts.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 29, 2024 0:01:53 GMT
The bit about Arlathan being sunk into the ground suddenly would make a lot more sense it just wasn't the magisters who did it. The Arbor Wild ruins are also semi sunk into the ground and the magisters didn't fought the elves there.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2024 8:11:13 GMT
The bit about Arlathan being sunk into the ground suddenly would make a lot more sense it just wasn't the magisters who did it. It turns out they also sank beneath the ocean and somehow Maryden knew this as she referenced it in her song. So, clearly much of the destruction pre-dated the actions of the Imperium, which were confined to the Arlathan Forest. What likely happened there was that all the magic in play roused a Titan temporarily from its slumber and caused an earthquake which resulted in the destruction of part of the city which did effectively sink into the ground. The Vints and elves who witnessed this may have genuinely thought it was the human magic that caused it and, regardless, I'm sure the Vints involved were happy to take credit when they returned home to report their "victory". By constantly repeating the story to their elven slaves, to emphasise their superiority over them, this became the accepted version of events that was later repeated by the Keepers in the Dales. Perhaps they just assumed that the elven ruins in the south had been caused by Tevinter too. Besides, the Dalish were probably confused by the fact that the Vints had repurposed a lot of elven ruins and built over them or incorporated them into their own structures, which is why in DAO our Dalish Warden and Tamlen think the ruins they find are of human design with elven artifacts within them, suggesting cohabitation (which may still have been true) but actually the ruins were entirely ancient elven in origin.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 29, 2024 12:19:39 GMT
The bit about Arlathan being sunk into the ground suddenly would make a lot more sense it just wasn't the magisters who did it. It turns out they also sank beneath the ocean and somehow Maryden knew this as she referenced it in her song. So, clearly much of the destruction pre-dated the actions of the Imperium, which were confined to the Arlathan Forest. What likely happened there was that all the magic in play roused a Titan temporarily from its slumber and caused an earthquake which resulted in the destruction of part of the city which did effectively sink into the ground. The Vints and elves who witnessed this may have genuinely thought it was the human magic that caused it and, regardless, I'm sure the Vints involved were happy to take credit when they returned home to report their "victory". By constantly repeating the story to their elven slaves, to emphasise their superiority over them, this became the accepted version of events that was later repeated by the Keepers in the Dales. Perhaps they just assumed that the elven ruins in the south had been caused by Tevinter too. Besides, the Dalish were probably confused by the fact that the Vints had repurposed a lot of elven ruins and built over them or incorporated them into their own structures, which is why in DAO our Dalish Warden and Tamlen think the ruins they find are of human design with elven artifacts within them, suggesting cohabitation (which may still have been true) but actually the ruins were entirely ancient elven in origin. I think the Magisters just took credit for it a few centuries after it happened. We have example of people in power rewritting history like that currently on the planet and I think a few example in-settings in DA too. There are a few codices with things like " this showed up in the glory age and we have no actual proof it really happened in -300 AE". DAI has multiple sources that mention pre-Tevinter were scavengers/took over after everything fell appart. I mean at this point is either you believe Abelas or 1000 years of Tevinter rewriting their own history. And the Brecelian ruins had cohabitation, it's more clear when doing the main quest in the region than the Dalish origin. If I remember properly the Arcane Warrior conversation and some ambient dialogue brings it up.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2024 12:48:59 GMT
And the Brecelian ruins had cohabitation, it's more clear when doing the main quest in the region than the Dalish origin. If I remember properly the Arcane Warrior conversation and some ambient dialogue brings it up. Wasn't that a different ruin though? You couldn't access it without the oak branch from the Poet Tree. Or do you think they were interconnected? Problem is we don't know at what point in history either. They could have been built by one group of elves and then occupied at a later date by another group with humans. However, we know there had to be some cohabitation at one time because how else would the ancient elven lament about the effects of Fen'Harel's action to obtain their freedom (so likely his followers) end up in an Alamaari War poem and later a Ferelden lullaby? I think it is probably that some of the rebels did not enter Uthenera to await his return but instead got on with their lives and interacted with the humans that had been freed by it as well because previously they seem to have simply been regarded as prey for Andruil to hunt.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 29, 2024 13:05:55 GMT
And the Brecelian ruins had cohabitation, it's more clear when doing the main quest in the region than the Dalish origin. If I remember properly the Arcane Warrior conversation and some ambient dialogue brings it up. Wasn't that a different ruin though? You couldn't access it without the oak branch from the Poet Tree. Or do you think they were interconnected? Problem is we don't know at what point in history either. They could have been built by one group of elves and then occupied at a later date by another group with humans. Not the same ruin exactly, but probably interconnected. And the human ghost in there spoke elven.
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Post by dreadcat on Aug 30, 2024 1:55:16 GMT
Personally I think the the Black City in the Fade is not just a mirror reflection of the real Black City in the Deep Roads, the one in the Fade is the Black City from the material world that's why it's the only geographical constant in the Fade because it's the only real physical location there while the rest are just Fade mirror images of the material world. There is some element of truth in this. Probably it is something along the lines of the Black City being simultaneously in the Fade and the Deep Roads, which as you say gives it its permanence. Maybe that is why the Magisters entered through the Fade but came out in the Deep Roads. The two are connected in some way but I think the corrupted Titan is connected with it. Perhaps Mythal originally created her city within the body of the defeated titan and then it became corrupted, possibly on her death because it was her magic that prevented it from decomposing. Alternatively, she had absorbed the plague that Andruil was carrying when she fought her and killing her released the taint once more. There is definitely a connection between the mining of lyrium and Mythal, so presumably there is likely a connection between red lyrium and her in some way as well. If the blade Solas was using is the same one that can be drawn from the idol, then apparently he would appear to have cleansed it. I think the idol was meant to depict Mythal. Originally it may have been created by the dwarves she controlled to honour her and was uncorrupted lyrium but transformed on her death. So, Solas was able to restore it to its original condition, likely because of the power he now had from Mythal within him. Yeah possible, can I ask something: are there codex entries or instances of people being called or dreaming about the Black City after the Magisters Sidereal entered it?
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 30, 2024 8:46:33 GMT
Yeah possible, can I ask something: are there codex entries or instances of people being called or dreaming about the Black City after the Magisters Sidereal entered it? More pertinent is surely how they saw it before then? Afterwards, people started seeing it as a Black City, hence them connecting the two events, although I believe they didn't get the real explanation until Andraste started having her visions. It must have been Golden to those viewing the Fade before the Magisters entered or why would Corypheus expect it to be Golden when he got there? Yet everyone sees it as Black now and his memories confirm it was always Black inside if not evident from viewing it from the outside. That trailer in 2022 also seemed to show that the Golden City only turned Black around the time the Veil was created but, as I say above, it clearly didn't appear that way on the outside or Corypheus and Co would never have been duped into thinking it was Golden before they got there. The connection with the elven gods was also always there in the codices because the Dalish called it the Eternal City and believed it was the home of their gods where they were imprisoned by Fen'Harel. However, it is not clear if they knew it had changed appearance or when this occurred. Likewise, the Avvar would seem to associate the city in the Fade with the home of their gods and their legends do speak of a time when it was accessible from the world and then cut off (suggesting their ancestors witnessed the event). However, their legends do not say whether it was Golden, whether they were aware of the change or when it occurred. I don't know if that is significant or not. Perhaps it is not mentioned because either the writers did not bother with that detail or no one actually asked the Avvar about this in game. Still they are an offshoot of the Alamaari, the people of Andraste, so quite possibly she already knew the city in the Fade was Black but it was only after her communing with the Maker that she learned the reason why. Remember it seems almost certain she was a mage but the Chantry have downplayed that idea for centuries so it seemed like she only learned these things from the Maker rather than witnessing things in the Fade herself as a mage.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 30, 2024 11:51:42 GMT
Likewise, the Avvar would seem to associate the city in the Fade with the home of their gods and their legends do speak of a time when it was accessible from the world and then cut off (suggesting their ancestors witnessed the event). However, their legends do not say whether it was Golden, whether they were aware of the change or when it occurred. We don't actually have the Avvar original version of the tale, just a scholar take on it. It does use the term loafty thought and the sentence suggest it's for the height, but maybe it was also for how it looked*. The Avvar have another tale that says it was where Lake Calenhad is now and that it was destroyed leaving behind a huge crater**. Which makes it kinda confusing...since if it was put up in the Sky/Fade, how was it destroyed leaving a huge crater behind.... *https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Constellation:_Belenas **ttps://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Lake_Calenhad
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 30, 2024 12:45:12 GMT
We don't actually have the Avvar original version of the tale, just a scholar take on it. I thought this was the Avvar version of the tale as recounted to the scholar: According to Avvar legend, Korth the Mountain-Father kept his throne at the peak of the mountain Belenas, which lay at the center of the world and was so lofty that from it, he could see all the corners of the earth and sky.
Over time, bold young Avvar would challenge each other to scale the mountain of the gods. At first, Korth found this amusing, and he delighted in the valor of their failed attempts to enter his hold. Then Sindri Sky-Breaker, boldest of the heroes of old, succeeded in climbing to the summit and stood in the Hall of the Mountain-Father in the flesh. Korth, being a good sport, gave Sindri a hero's welcome, and the mortal returned to the Frostbacks with tales of gods and gifts from Korth, and soon more and more heroes were barging into the hall of the Mountain-Father demanded to be showered with honors. Korth grew weary of throwing banquets, and the other gods began to fear his temper. So Korth spoke to the Lady of the Skies and lifted Belenas from the earth into her realm, which could not be reached even by the most intrepid climber, and there he dwells in peace.
Also, presumably Skyhold must have been occupied by Avvar/Alamaari at one point or at least identified by them since the "hold" is a term that appears in their language to suggest a dwelling place: hence Kinloch Hold, Sky hold, etc. The actual name of the place in elvish meant "the place where the sky was held back", so the Avvar either knew the elvish name or it has similar associations for them. As for the entry on Lake Calenhad, the details I find most interesting is that the destruction/removal of Belenas from the world was associated with a battle between Korth and a giant serpent. Whilst the sex of the god is different that sounds like the story of Andruil fighting with Mythal in the form of a serpent and it likely was not long after their battle that Mythal was murdered. It may also be significant that the ancient Tevinter living in the south associated the lake with Razikale and members of her priesthood sought answers to her silence in the Frostbacks. Then there is the story about Korth burying his heart beneath the earth, after which he became cruel until his heart was restored to him. Again, that sounds like Andruil going crazy after visiting the Void/Abyss (possibly beneath the earth in the Deep Roads or some other dimension), inflicting her lands with the plague and gradually becoming unrecognisable (in appearance or nature?) so that the other gods feared she might start hunting them, which is when Mythal took action and stole her memory of the way to the Void (symbolically binding her heart within her chest as suggested in the Avvar tale). Obviously the identities of the gods and the details do vary but there are significant similarities. Also, elements of an ancient elven lament winding up in an Alamaari war poem and ultimately a Ferelden lullaby suggest there were links between at least some of the ancient elves of the south and the barbarians. As the elven version was forgotten over time, the Alaamari introduced elements of their own and the stories altered as a result, the final version being developed by the Avvar after they broke away and remained isolated in the Frostbacks.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 1, 2024 18:43:48 GMT
On the previous discussion about the Elven ruins in the Brecilian forest during Nature of the Beast. I remembered correctly that there was a human ghost in there (no pointy ear on the boy, the lady ghost don't seem to have them either) speaking Elven. Also, the ruins were lived in by Elves (a table ritual describe elves and the Arcane Warrior was an elf, also the statues inside, but those are reused a lot in DAO) and the Arcane Warrior saying the place was used by the Elders for their long sleep.
But it seems I forgot the most important knowledge from the Arcane Warrior conversation: the place was built by humans.
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