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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 5, 2019 17:33:39 GMT
You sure don't like the idea of the Crucible, but without something like it, you are sitting ducks. Tell you what; the Shadow Broker had the plans all long. Liara finds them in LotSB. So now you are rid of Mars. You are now one main mission short in ME3 and can't recruit EDI's infiltration unit. Unless you shoe horn it early enough in one of the other main missions, so you don't miss out on her and alleviate the poor party selection you have in ME3. So you have to make a different mission that involves it and why you need to take it up on the ship. So you pretty much end up using the same resources for something else and you end up with the same Priority Earth mission. We've changed nothing.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 5, 2019 18:13:41 GMT
You sure don't like the idea of the Crucible, but without something like it, you are sitting ducks. Tell you what; the Shadow Broker had the plans all long. Liara finds them in LotSB. So now you are rid of Mars. You are now one main mission short in ME3 and can't recruit EDI's infiltration unit. Unless you shoe horn it early enough in one of the other main missions, so you don't miss out on her and alleviate the poor party selection you have in ME3. So you have to make a different mission that involves it and why you need to take it up on the ship. So you pretty much end up using the same resources for something else and you end up with the same Priority Earth mission. We've changed nothing. Better idea: Let's have a Skynet Vs Starkid game trilogy. "who wins, you'll lose" 😈
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Post by themikefest on Nov 5, 2019 18:47:29 GMT
You sure don't like the idea of the Crucible, but without something like it, you are sitting ducks. Tell you what; the Shadow Broker had the plans all long. Liara finds them in LotSB. So now you are rid of Mars. You are now one main mission short in ME3 and can't recruit EDI's infiltration unit. Unless you shoe horn it early enough in one of the other main missions, so you don't miss out on her and alleviate the poor party selection you have in ME3. So you have to make a different mission that involves it and why you need to take it up on the ship. So you pretty much end up using the same resources for something else and you end up with the same Priority Earth mission. We've changed nothing. Mars could still happen. Instead of going there to get the plans, Shepard heads to Mars to get t'soni who went to Mars to find any answers to explain the plans. Shepard shows up to gather what information t'soni has found just as Cerberus shows up.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 5, 2019 20:14:07 GMT
I thought the point was to get rid of something, though. To free up more zots for a better Priority:Earth. Or was that just a side effect?
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Post by Iakus on Nov 5, 2019 21:18:54 GMT
You sure don't like the idea of the Crucible, but without something like it, you are sitting ducks. Only because Bioware couldn't be bothered to advance the storyline in ME2. Even in ME1 it was established that the Reapers were not invincible. Sovereign NEEDED the geth to support it in its run to the Citadel. The Destiny Ascension is not crippled/killed but a Reaper, after all, but by the geth. In addition, Sovereign's connection to Saren proved to be a weakness capable of crippling it. Perhaps the Reapers had other such exploitable weaknesses. Not to mention the Citadel had THREE FREAKING YEARS to dissect and study Sovereign's remains. Also not to mention it had never been established just how many Reapers there were and, until Arrival, how long it would take for them to reach Citadel space. Something other than a LITERAL magic wand could have been come up with. If only Bioware had a clue what the hell they were doing.
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Post by burningcherry on Nov 5, 2019 21:48:16 GMT
Scourge weaponry was a great idea but 5 years too late.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 5, 2019 22:18:54 GMT
Scourge weaponry was a great idea but 5 years too late. Scourge? Hell, Remtech. Kinetic barriers won't do sh*t against beam weapons.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 23:12:35 GMT
Okay, how would you have defeated the Reapers?
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 6, 2019 0:27:33 GMT
I presume he'd start by having fewer Reapers. Their numbers aren't revealed to be overwhelming until the final minute of ME2. (Even the retcon of having some of those maybe being only destroyer-class didn't make fighting them practical.)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 6, 2019 1:07:02 GMT
I presume he'd start by having fewer Reapers. Their numbers aren't revealed to be overwhelming until the final minute of ME2. (Even the retcon of having some of those maybe being only destroyer-class didn't make fighting them practical.) Sovereign in ME1 talks about how overwhelming their force is. "Our numbers will darken the skies of every world."
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Post by Iakus on Nov 6, 2019 1:08:32 GMT
Okay, how would you have defeated the Reapers? Probably by abandoning mass effect technology and finding another way. The Reaper's trap is getting the galaxy dependent on their technology and pulling the rug out from under them. Specifically, developing directed energy weapons, a new form of FTL technology, etc.
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Post by Phantom on Nov 6, 2019 2:48:08 GMT
Rough idea, Reapers have their own Space station that they get repairs and among other things. Possible of a portal to an Pocket Universe that lays a Eldritch Abomination that meet and made an deal with the Leviathans of Old and Harbinger becomes the true Big Bad of Mass Effect while each Leviathans of Old did have their role to play. The Leviathan that would become Harbinger is the true Evil that cons both his species and the Eldritch Abomination.
By Either destroy an important section of the Reaper Space Station or sealing the Portal between Pocket Universe and ours forever.
Eldritch Abomination works on Blue and Orange Morality that loves finding way to improving Species of all stripes while being respectful of their wishes. His world view is very much alien and so his appearance.
Keep in mind this can be improved and work with any Player Character.
Also Yes I would have a Harbinger Boss Battle that your player character forces Harbinger into his more Reaper humanoid Avatar into an Boss Battle
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 6, 2019 4:00:06 GMT
To Iakus' post, I'd add that some sort of FTL sensor would be a vital tech to have against Reapers, assuming MEU physics allow it. There's a real problem in the MEU with planets not being defensible from fleets which can get into weapon range undetectably. This gives a huge advantage to the side which doesn't live on planets.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 6, 2019 4:30:38 GMT
I presume he'd start by having fewer Reapers. Their numbers aren't revealed to be overwhelming until the final minute of ME2. (Even the retcon of having some of those maybe being only destroyer-class didn't make fighting them practical.) Sovereign in ME1 talks about how overwhelming their force is. "Our numbers will darken the skies of every world." Vigil even says how big their force was. We knew in ME1 it would be a hard fight.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 6, 2019 13:20:39 GMT
Mars could still happen. Instead of going there to get the plans, Shepard heads to Mars to get t'soni who went to Mars to find any answers to explain the plans. Shepard shows up to gather what information t'soni has found just as Cerberus shows up. And then you get the same game, that doesn't even allocate more resources to get a better Priority Earth, like gothpunkboy89 wanted, because that is all the issue he has with ME3. I thought the point was to get rid of something, though. To free up more zots for a better Priority:Earth. Or was that just a side effect? Yes, that was gothpunkboy89's idea. Only because Bioware couldn't be bothered to advance the storyline in ME2. They did, but not in the main game. They did that with Arrival. But even so, there was no guarantee that the Reapers would get there in 6 months, as they do by the start of ME3. Furthermore, an entirely re-written ME2 doesn't help ME3's case, unless we deal with half the stuff that ME3 does in ME2, leaving us with half of ME3 to play. But developing half a game, in order to make 3 very polished missions, still only leaves you with half a game and adding more missions, removes time and resources from the missions that would end up very polished. So you end up with more or less the same game and no guarantee that anything will indeed be made better. The only thing you are most likely to achieve this way, is make a worse ME2, with an ME3 that achieves the same thing and causes the same ending backlash, which remains unmitigated by no matter how good Priority: Earth is, unless that polish changes the ending itself. Which would still end up in Mac railroading you into his Artistic Vision. Even in ME1 it was established that the Reapers were not invincible. Sovereign NEEDED the geth to support it in its run to the Citadel. The Destiny Ascension is not crippled/killed but a Reaper, after all, but by the geth. That was more because he needed troops on the ground to activate the Relay that the Keepers didn't, so that the rest of the Reaper fleet could pass through. Their ships' fire power was also much appreciated by Sovereign, I am sure, but I doubt Sovereign really cared. In addition, Sovereign's connection to Saren proved to be a weakness capable of crippling it. Perhaps the Reapers had other such exploitable weaknesses. I had been thinking that, since ME1.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 6, 2019 16:26:20 GMT
Okay, how would you have defeated the Reapers? Well, one idea that ME2 gave me, would be a hive mind. A large goo brain, basically, as per the ME2 Reaper showed us. But the Reapers themselves, in most cases, are just husks, operated remotely by chunks of the goo brain. In Sovereign's case, there was an autonomous goo brain that possibly got overloaded and fried, or when Citadel forces went through it, just didn't realize what that goo was. Other than genetic material, I guess. Of which, ew. So there is a Reaper brain, a very advanced collective of previous galactic civilizations, that remotely manipulates the Reaper husks. Through that, you get an explanation for the phenomenon of indoctrination and why a dead God still dreams; a catastrophic failure of a Reaper husk, doesn't mean the brain isn't talking to, or through it, just that its mechanical parts aren't working. It also keeps the goo and therefore the civilizations it has harvested away from harm and why individual Reaper husks getting destroyed is not an issue. The Human Reaper is a fallback plan, since the Collectors aren't powerful enough on their own to try again to activate the Citadel relay. For lack of any other Reaper in the system, after the destruction of Sovereign, the fringe Alliance system human settlements were ripe for the harvesting and since Harbinger was too busy controlling the Collector General, he could not assume direct control of the new Reaper Husk. So ME3 rolls around and through cross referencing of our knowledge of the goo now, compared to what was found in Sovereign, we found out about the Reaper husk control mechanism and its function, so we find out about their means of operation and a method to disrupt it, possibly by Mordin. So our first mission is to disrupt a lone Reaper, rendering it non-functional, then we board it and clean it up of whatever husks populate it, before bringing it back for further research. The Normandy, as we already know, would be ideal for such an assignment and by the time the Reaper would be able to locate us, our disruptor would immobilize it. This would also have the effect of shielding us from Indoctrination effects. Retrieving said Reaper reveals, lo and behold, that there is no goo in this one, but rather a receiver/transmitter, indicating a remote unit controlling the husk. Which makes sense as it doesn't jeopardize the civilization that was harvested to create the Reaper. After various operations throughout the galaxy, trying to destabilize the Reaper offensive and possibly cross reference our data over various immobilized Reapers, some of which we win, others lose, we are able to lock in to the origin of the Reaper signal and find the Master Brain, which is heavily guarded, by a large Reaper force. Final mission, we take the Normandy in a stealth mission, assisted by the few Quarian ships that also have a similar Tantalus drive, for improved odds, most of which will get destroyed in the effort, while the rest of our forces engage the Reapers to draw their attention away from us. So we board the Reaper Brain Collective is a mission similar to the SM, but since we've already had the SM, we now know the right choices to make, so this time the mechanics won't take place, instead we get a few cinematics of whoever is with us, in various stages of the level. The Final Battle is a monstrous techno-organic hydra/squid thing with freaking laser beams that shoots sharks out of its eyes, I don't fucking know. Exaggerate. All because we found out what the goo was. In b4 Hanako, alan etc all go nope again, because they don't like the idea that nobody dies in the end. Because nobody has to. We'll have some heroic sacrifices throughout the game, let the final battle not be a tragic event the destroys the Milky Way forever. Let Shepard fly in the galaxy forever in our minds and then jump to Andromeda. Or make a 90% Unexplored Milky Way Initiative, I don't care. Sombrero Initiative that'll fly to the Sombrero Galaxy. We'll kill La Kettcarachas™, drinking Techquilas™ and Marwaritas™, as we ally ourselves with the Mexangara™ and never go back to the Milky Way again.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 6, 2019 16:48:04 GMT
In b4 Hanako, alan etc all go nope again, because they don't like the idea that nobody dies in the end. Wait, what?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 6, 2019 16:55:35 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 6, 2019 16:57:19 GMT
Where did you ever get the idea that I don't like endings where nobody dies? That's one of the main reasons I don't choose Destroy: because I don't like people dying.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 6, 2019 17:00:29 GMT
Where did you ever get the idea that I don't like endings where nobody dies? That's one of the main reasons I don't choose Destroy: because I don't like people dying. Would you take my idea over the Crucible?
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Post by Iakus on Nov 6, 2019 17:28:42 GMT
They did, but not in the main game. They did that with Arrival. But even so, there was no guarantee that the Reapers would get there in 6 months, as they do by the start of ME3. Furthermore, an entirely re-written ME2 doesn't help ME3's case, unless we deal with half the stuff that ME3 does in ME2, leaving us with half of ME3 to play. But developing half a game, in order to make 3 very polished missions, still only leaves you with half a game and adding more missions, removes time and resources from the missions that would end up very polished. So you end up with more or less the same game and no guarantee that anything will indeed be made better. The only thing you are most likely to achieve this way, is make a worse ME2, with an ME3 that achieves the same thing and causes the same ending backlash, which remains unmitigated by no matter how good Priority: Earth is, unless that polish changes the ending itself. Which would still end up in Mac railroading you into his Artistic Vision. Oh, believe me, ME3 needs a total rewrite. But what I would really like would be an ME2 that actually bridged ME1 and ME3, and wasn't just a bunch of side missions. Sovereign had Saren and the tank-bred krogan to handle that.Vigil even states that the Reapers were not invincible, and could be brought down with sufficient firepower. Thus the reason why they hit the relay network first (in every harvest but this one, it seems) reapers were ambush predators, masters at the sudden decapitating strike. But vulnerable to a toe-to-toe battle.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 6, 2019 18:01:30 GMT
They did, but not in the main game. They did that with Arrival. But even so, there was no guarantee that the Reapers would get there in 6 months, as they do by the start of ME3. Furthermore, an entirely re-written ME2 doesn't help ME3's case, unless we deal with half the stuff that ME3 does in ME2, leaving us with half of ME3 to play. But developing half a game, in order to make 3 very polished missions, still only leaves you with half a game and adding more missions, removes time and resources from the missions that would end up very polished. So you end up with more or less the same game and no guarantee that anything will indeed be made better. The only thing you are most likely to achieve this way, is make a worse ME2, with an ME3 that achieves the same thing and causes the same ending backlash, which remains unmitigated by no matter how good Priority: Earth is, unless that polish changes the ending itself. Which would still end up in Mac railroading you into his Artistic Vision. Oh, believe me, ME3 needs a total rewrite. But what I would really like would be an ME2 that actually bridged ME1 and ME3, and wasn't just a bunch of side missions. Sovereign had Saren and the tank-bred krogan to handle that.Vigil even states that the Reapers were not invincible, and could be brought down with sufficient firepower. Thus the reason why they hit the relay network first (in every harvest but this one, it seems) reapers were ambush predators, masters at the sudden decapitating strike. But vulnerable to a toe-to-toe battle. It's surprising how some people didn't realise that....
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 6, 2019 18:10:31 GMT
Oh, believe me, ME3 needs a total rewrite. But what I would really like would be an ME2 that actually bridged ME1 and ME3, and wasn't just a bunch of side missions. I don't know if that would demonstrably help. ME2 was, either by design or by accident, a well received game and considering what we got after it, I don't know if getting a different ME2 would have worked in ME2's favour. I mean, we'd still get cramped hallways and chest high walls, because that was the trend at the time. At least the way it was structured, narratively and cinematically, it was all so very tight knit that it worked. A difficult endeavor under different circumstances. Sovereign had Saren and the tank-bred krogan to handle that.Vigil even states that the Reapers were not invincible, and could be brought down with sufficient firepower. Thus the reason why they hit the relay network first (in every harvest but this one, it seems) reapers were ambush predators, masters at the sudden decapitating strike. But vulnerable to a toe-to-toe battle. Sovereign was clearly a class above that.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 6, 2019 18:34:19 GMT
And then you get the same game, that doesn't even allocate more resources to get a better Priority Earth, like gothpunkboy89 wanted, because that is all the issue he has with ME3. A better Priority Earth. Hmmm. Get rid of the goodbyes. Get rid of the suicide run, I mean beam run. Have all squadmates involved in the fight. Show some of the war assets in action. In b4 Hanako, alan etc all go nope again Post whatever idea you want. Don't worry about what others say about it. Some will like the idea. Some won't, and some will just shrug their shoulders. Sovereign had Saren and the tank-bred krogan to handle that.Vigil even states that the Reapers were not invincible, and could be brought down with sufficient firepower. Yet the reaper wasn't taking any damage, even after losing it's shields, until an itsy-bitsy-tennie-weenie frigate, with a fighter on each side, destroy the reaper. Along comes ME3 showing a ship fire two shots at a reaper destroying two of it's legs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 18:34:24 GMT
This alternate plan of yours sounds like some kind of conventional victory. Which this game said was impossible.
Also, why does there have to be a final boss?
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