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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 12:35:19 GMT
Entitled you are to your own opinion; not your own "facts". They patched the game for several months, and continued to support MP for much longer. BioWare devs did a weekly twitch stream for at least 6 months after release, answering questions and taking player input. They did an extra balance update over a year after the 3-2-1-2017 release, and I think the weekly/monthly special missions continue to this day. You sound distressed. If you have a P.O Box I can send you the Andromeda book that features Closure™. But that is the result of one of the choices BioWare presented, they’re not going to deny other players just to appease the people who chose the destroy option. Nobody said they'd have to. There are many ways to handle it. The problem is that for most fans there simply isn't a primary Shepard in the sense that Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers are the primary identities for their respective characters. Shepard isn't a character, Shepard is a space where the player creates a character. If you're going to "bring back Shepard", what exactly are you bringing back? All of them? Conceptually impossible Oh, gee. It's not like we went through three games with Shepard. It would be impossible to accomplish the same thing a fourth time. Other than that, tl;dr.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 13, 2020 17:15:23 GMT
But what is this really arguing? That a new protagonist and setting, regardless of quality, is simply doomed to poor reception and sales on that alone? Is the fanbase so saturated with stupid babies, that can only be pacified with a specific binky, so numerous and influential that the creative team are essentially shackled to the whims of their fickleness? You can say that, sure. You can reduce it to a narrative that belittles the fans, but recent memory proves this isn't a good tactic. On the other hand, you can call it love, dedication, admiration, passion. You generally want your franchise to be healthy, you need the fanbase to be solid, you need good word of mouth and good will. How much of those does Bioware have right now? If these things don't matter, as you claim and it all comes down to fans being just that gosh darn dumb, why are we still getting Batman comics with Bruce Wayne? What happened to Riri Williams' Ironheart? Why is Tony Stark back? And yes, Riri has a two-part coming in 2020, but Tony Stark is back as Iron Man, who had been replaced by Riri. Why does Halo keep coming back to Master Chief? Why is CD-Project Red returning to The Witcher? Because it's what the people want, because it sells and because a company's main goal is to make money, to keep people employed and to move product. Does that mean that Mass Effect is stuck to Shepard forever? What if I told you no? Because I do believe there is a future for Mass Effect without Shepard. I just can't see it happening now. Ryder 2.0 and Andromeda 2 will just get people ready for the next "my face is tired" meme. That game will be dead before it hits the shelves. But you can use the old to introduce the new. It's going to be tough, it's going to take time, there will be failures along the way, but you need to give people a transitive period. If you're to change too much, too fast, people will reject it, as they did with Andromeda. You can argue that they didn't, but it's the only game Bioware has made in 13 years now that got no support, other than a patch or two and no DLC. Even Anthem enjoyed more support than Andromeda, so something definitely went wrong there, even if we don't have all the data for it. If so, then perhaps Mass Effect is fucked, caught in a death loop of creative bankruptcy, and best left to finally die its final death. Perhaps that would be a preferable fate, at this point. But Bioware can't afford to let it die. There's also the problem if whether EA can afford to keep it alive, but that is a conversation for another time. Now, I can actually see EA making this sort of consideration, that fans aren't necessarily concerned for substance so long as they can exploit that nostalgia factor, and we're dumb sheep that'll buy their shit and congratulate them for actually publishing a game that isn't laden with their normal predatory monetization schemes (all while they also congratulate themselves in masturbatory fashion). They can bring Shepard back, because Shepard is an icon they can recycle and repackage and charge us extra to contrive its continued existence. The question though is whether or not this result is actually *good* as a game The implication that it can't be a good game, because they will bring Shepard back, is like saying the next [insert franchise here] will be back because they brought [iconic character] back. You can make it and you can sell it with or without [iconic character]. But not when the brand is damaged. Bob Iger put Star Wars movies on hiatus indefinitely, after the franchise collapse with the Sequel Trilogy and Terminator: Dark Fate put that franchise on ice, just like Andromeda put Mass Effect. Which means that at this point, you can't sell this franchises to the public, unless you do something drastic. Going for Andromeda 2 or a Milky Way Mass Effect, set 100 years after the Reaper War, or 1000 years after the Reaper War is just doing what you did last time and ignoring the problem. Which is begging a repetition of what Bioware got last time. At that point, yes, it is better to make a new franchise; you'll have a better time selling it. But if you want the franchise, if you want to keep it, you go back, you fix it, you make it whole and then you start making plans how to move on from there. Yet in all the criticisms I see in commentary and reviews, the core of the major complaints with Andromeda seem to revolve around the game's general quality in and of itself, not its departure from the familiar faces and setting. It seems to me that the familiarity of Shepard and the Milky Way is more the assumed reason why the game loses so much good will, despite the fact that graphical performance issues and overall writing strength (or lack thereof) are the things that seem to have hurt Andromeda the most. So which is it really? Which factor plays into how poorly the game was received? More than that, if the game actually had stellar writing, beautiful animation and a compelling story, would it have suffered nearly as much as it did? I do see the superhero comparison as a tad problematic though. With properties like Batman and Captain America, the story is first and foremost about that character. Their origins and how it affects their worldview and motivation to become what they are is central to the story, regardless of what the overarching plot is. That's not really true of Mass Effect. Shepard's mindset doesn't really matter, neither does their origin. It's just cursory details to add context and history to plant the character in the universe, but Shepard in and of itself is not at all essential to what makes the franchise function, whereas there is no Batman without Bruce Wayne first being inspired by the frightening image of bats to create the mantle in the first place. I understand this doesn't change the attachment people have to the character, but the effect of moving away from Shepard is unequal to changing out Bruce Wayne or Steve Rogers, or even Tony Stark. It's worth mentioning that Geralt will likely not see a reprisal in the next Witcher game; only the franchise itself is going forward. Considering that Geralt's sendoff is considered to be actually satisfying, it's a fair bet that CDPR will just leave it at that. But if the goal is to wean people off of Shepard to ease them into a new stage in the franchise, I don't believe an entire new game featuring this character is really going to do it anyway. It'll just be a disjointed mess that leaves the original writing flub that led us here intact. In truth, the only solution I see that would actually accomplish this goal would be to straight up have the games remastered, with an entirely restructured conclusion. So long as that ending remains intact, it'll never be free from it, at least for those who consider the trilogy entirely damaged by it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 13, 2020 17:25:55 GMT
But that is the result of one of the choices BioWare presented, they’re not going to deny other players just to appease the people who chose the destroy option. Nobody said they'd have to. There are many ways to handle it. The problem is that for most fans there simply isn't a primary Shepard in the sense that Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers are the primary identities for their respective characters. Shepard isn't a character, Shepard is a space where the player creates a character. If you're going to "bring back Shepard", what exactly are you bringing back? All of them? Conceptually impossible Oh, gee. It's not like we went through three games with Shepard. It would be impossible to accomplish the same thing a fourth time. Other than that, tl;dr. There are a lot of ways to handle it, but I'm willing to bet that the path of least resistance would be something that, perhaps unknowingly, just straight up canonizes MEHEM. Relays intact, Shepard alive, the geth still exist, the whole 9 yards. I'm sure some people will hate it, as many are wont to do, but they'll get over it and buy it too.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 13, 2020 17:31:11 GMT
The problem is that for most fans there simply isn't a primary Shepard in the sense that Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers are the primary identities for their respective characters. Shepard isn't a character, Shepard is a space where the player creates a character. If you're going to "bring back Shepard", what exactly are you bringing back? All of them? Conceptually impossible Oh, gee. It's not like we went through three games with Shepard. It would be impossible to accomplish the same thing a fourth time. Other than that, tl;dr. When someone's just pointed out that you're ignoring the problems with your preferred course of action, proudly proclaiming that you're not actually reading the objections to that preferred course of action isn't a very convincing rhetorical strategy. Are you actively trying to not be taken seriously? In all honesty, I have no idea what you're trying to do here.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 13, 2020 17:37:00 GMT
Nobody said they'd have to. There are many ways to handle it. Oh, gee. It's not like we went through three games with Shepard. It would be impossible to accomplish the same thing a fourth time. Other than that, tl;dr. There are a lot of ways to handle it, but I'm willing to bet that the path of least resistance would be something that, perhaps unknowingly, just straight up canonizes MEHEM. Relays intact, Shepard alive, the geth still exist, the whole 9 yards. I'm sure some people will hate it, as many are wont to do, but they'll get over it and buy it too. It's conceivably the satisficing alternative. Although I think we'd lose more than a few people; putting in a canon ending has always been unpopular. I'm personally OK with doing that, although putting in a fake canon ending is something I don't like and won't pay full price for. I figure I'd play it on EA Access eventually, though. I still think this is inferior to an outright reboot, though, assuming that our projected release date is over five years from now.
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Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Mousestalker
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Post by mousestalker on Feb 13, 2020 17:41:00 GMT
I don't think anyone at Bioware wants to do another Shepard ME game at this point. At least I haven't seen, heard or read anything that would indicate otherwise.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 13, 2020 17:43:40 GMT
Agreed. OTOH, sirpetrakus' entire point is that the devs have been wrong about lots of stuff and are destroying the company, so this isn't really an objection to the position that the franchise needs more Shepard. It might be an argument that the franchise needs to die, though. Making devs work on a project they don't like and don't believe in doesn't have a great track record.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 13, 2020 17:50:22 GMT
I don't think anyone at Bioware wants to do another Shepard ME game at this point. At least I haven't seen, heard or read anything that would indicate otherwise. Yeah I don' think the ywantto either and also I don't think it's in the bests interests of the franchise either tbh.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 18:09:30 GMT
Yet in all the criticisms I see in commentary and reviews, the core of the major complaints with Andromeda seem to revolve around the game's general quality in and of itself, not its departure from the familiar faces and setting I've seen many complaints as to how inferior the new cast feels compared to the old one and it is an inevitable comparison. It seems to me that the familiarity of Shepard and the Milky Way is more the assumed reason why the game loses so much good will The problem isn't that Shepard or the Milky Way wasn't there. The problem is that what we found in Andromeda was inferior, which begs the question why we went there in the first place. From a game/story perspective. There's nothing wrong with Andromeda in itself as an idea. So which is it really? Which factor plays into how poorly the game was received? It is not a single factor. Fans had argued all the way up to that point with Bioware on how they handled a multitude of IPs, including ME itself. There was predisposition involved and one that Bioware and EA banked they could weather. It culminated with ME3 and DA:I did pretty good, after all. Except they failed to realize that this diffused in general disinterest. More than that, if the game actually had stellar writing, beautiful animation and a compelling story, would it have suffered nearly as much as it did? I think it would have been better received and it could have done a little better financially, but overall no. You see, what hurt The Rise of Skywalker the most, for example, wasn't that it was a bad movie. People went and saw the previous bad Star Wars movies and TRoS probably feels more like a Star Wars movie than any other in the Disney films. What made it the least successful of the three mainline series was disinterest. And that disinterest was caused by a single thing that the previous movie did, which didn't sit well with the fans and the media/company targeting them afterward. Sounds a bit familiar? I'd say it does. So I'd wager had Andromeda been a good game, it may have done better, but not by much. I do see the superhero comparison as a tad problematic though. With properties like Batman and Captain America, the story is first and foremost about that character. Their origins and how it affects their worldview and motivation to become what they are is central to the story, regardless of what the overarching plot is. That's not really true of Mass Effect. Shepard's mindset doesn't really matter, neither does their origin. It's just cursory details to add context and history to plant the character in the universe, but Shepard in and of itself is not at all essential to what makes the franchise function I'd argue the opposite. Shepard is exactly the Superhero of the Mass Effect Universe. He is the Superman to the Justice League, the Captain America to the Avengers, only he takes the form of you; the player, thrown smack dab in the middle of an exciting new universe, full of hi-tech, aliens and fantasy. How Shepard experiences the universe is essential, because it is how you experience it, through his eyes. whereas there is no Batman without Bruce Wayne first being inspired by the frightening image of bats to create the mantle in the first place. I understand this doesn't change the attachment people have to the character, but the effect of moving away from Shepard is unequal to changing out Bruce Wayne or Steve Rogers, or even Tony Stark. While there has been Batman, without Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson wore the cowl most recently and Captain America, without Steve Rogers, Falcon carried the Captain's shield for a while now, we've just gone back to the familiarity that people loved, time and again. And as such, we went to Ryder who, had he been better written, the public may not have ... I won't say rejected, but heavily criticized at the very least, then we may have had a fonder memory of at the helm, but we didn't. And we can definitely distance ourselves even further from Shepard, either by having more Ryder or a new protagonist again, chances are we will be less popular and less familiar, to the point that carrying the name of Mass Effect will be more a detriment than a boon. Even so, I've already quoted how Andromeda was planned as a standalone story from the start and how the game's reception put an end in any future Mass Effect plans entirely. It's worth mentioning that Geralt will likely not see a reprisal in the next Witcher game; only the franchise itself is going forward. Considering that Geralt's sendoff is considered to be actually satisfying, it's a fair bet that CDPR will just leave it at that. I don't think you can have a Witcher game without the Witcher. CDPR stated "Witcher 4", which means not a side story, but a direct sequel. Witcher 3 is, probably, a great sendoff. I wouldn't know, didn't really like the games and I didn't even finish 2, but they all were outstanding hits, both critically and financially, so if there's money on the table, as a company you are obligated to do what you can to take it. We just had Rambo 5 and Creed 2, the seventh movie in the Rocky series. Or is it the eighth? And we've sent off these characters a couple of times already. Quite competently, too. I don't doubt Geralt will return. But if the goal is to wean people off of Shepard to ease them into a new stage in the franchise, I don't believe an entire new game featuring this character is really going to do it anyway. It'll just be a disjointed mess that leaves the original writing flub that led us here intact. In truth, the only solution I see that would actually accomplish this goal would be to straight up have the games remastered, with an entirely restructured conclusion. So long as that ending remains intact, it'll never be free from it, at least for those who consider the trilogy entirely damaged by it. I'd disagree. The Devil may Cry series, for example, did an admirable job "weaning" us off from Dante with Nero, as the new protagonist. It is not entirely done with him, but I believe that the best thing it has done is not rushing it, not forcing it and building something up, side by side, to inherit the franchise. Mass Effect didn't do that. It, instead, pulled us out and drove us to an entirely new galaxy, where nothing familiar existed. Comic books, while having the benefit of being much cheaper to produce, handle that much better, by introducing new characters, expanding, building up and out their brands, without retiring the old and familiar. Because you don't have to. People like that familiarity to be there, because they care for it and need it treated with respect, for their memories, their love, their dedication, their time and money. You don't have to kill the past to move forward, just keep it to the side, possible to pop up at any time, even if it doesn't and you will fare much better.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 18:15:25 GMT
When someone's just pointed out that you're ignoring the problems with your preferred course of action, proudly proclaiming that you're not actually reading the objections to that preferred course of action isn't a very convincing rhetorical strategy. Are you actively trying to not be taken seriously? In all honesty, I have no idea what you're trying to do here. Who are you?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 18:17:41 GMT
I don't think anyone at Bioware wants to do another Shepard ME game at this point. At least I haven't seen, heard or read anything that would indicate otherwise. Bioware no longer do what they want. It's all corporate now. Has been for over a decade now.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 18:23:03 GMT
Agreed. OTOH, sirpetrakus' entire point is that the devs have been wrong about lots of stuff and are destroying the company, so this isn't really an objection to the position that the franchise needs more Shepard. It might be an argument that the franchise needs to die, though. Making devs work on a project they don't like and don't believe in doesn't have a great track record. Yes. Bioware in general needs a lot of work, in order to be fixed. Mass Effect needs extra work, in addition to that. But you won't do it, doubling down on a direction that further alienates the franchise. You can only lose people after rebooting a soft reboot. If that's your option, it isn't worth making the attempt. You can fix it, if you go back and it's the only way ME will be healthy again, but you'll have to put in the work and since Bioware is making another Mass Effect, they may as well put in the work. Or they won't and it will be financially non viable again.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 13, 2020 18:44:59 GMT
It's worth mentioning that Geralt will likely not see a reprisal in the next Witcher game; only the franchise itself is going forward. Considering that Geralt's sendoff is considered to be actually satisfying, it's a fair bet that CDPR will just leave it at that. I don't think you can have a Witcher game without the Witcher. CDPR stated "Witcher 4", which means not a side story, but a direct sequel. Witcher 3 is, probably, a great sendoff. I wouldn't know, didn't really like the games and I didn't even finish 2, but they all were outstanding hits, both critically and financially, so if there's money on the table, as a company you are obligated to do what you can to take it. We just had Rambo 5 and Creed 2, the seventh movie in the Rocky series. Or is it the eighth? And we've sent off these characters a couple of times already. Quite competently, too. I don't doubt Geralt will return. I'll say this much: Geralt has some pretty definitive ends you can choose from in 3. I get they can make bank off of the old icon, but there's a point I feel where a protagonist's story should just end indefinitely, or else the narrative simply starts to lose itself in the fatigue. I'm glad that the Warden never came back for this reason. The voice actor for Geralt has said that he feels Geralt's time is over in the franchise, suggesting that they should move forward with Ciri, since she actually has story left to work from. I would be willing to bet that something like this is the likelier outcome, with Geralt now being an NPC, taking a mentor-like role in a new game. I doubt fans would have much objection to that, so long as the Geralt they depict is up to snuff.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 13, 2020 18:49:20 GMT
Yet in all the criticisms I see in commentary and reviews, the core of the major complaints with Andromeda seem to revolve around the game's general quality in and of itself, not its departure from the familiar faces and setting. Of all the reveiws I've read and heard on youtube about Andromeda, the number 1 complaint was the characters were boring, dull. There are a lot of ways to handle it, but I'm willing to bet that the path of least resistance would be something that, perhaps unknowingly, just straight up canonizes MEHEM. Relays intact, Shepard alive, the geth still exist, the whole 9 yards. I'm sure some people will hate it, as many are wont to do, but they'll get over it and buy it too. I have nothing against the mod nor MrFob who created the mod, but it never interested me since I play the trilogy on the ps3. If Bioware were to go that route, I wouldn't have a problem. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware choose's to have the genophage cured instead of sabotaged.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 18:53:53 GMT
I'll say this much: Geralt has some pretty definitive ends you can choose from in 3. I get they can make bank off of the old icon, but there's a point I feel where a protagonist's story should just end indefinitely. The voice actor for Geralt has said that he feels Geralt's time is over in the franchise, suggesting that they should move forward with Ciri, since she actually has story left to work from. I would be willing to bet that something like this is the likelier outcome, with Geralt now being an NPC, taking a mentor-like role in a new game. I doubt fans would have much objection to that, so long as the Geralt they depict is up to snuff. No matter the capacity at which Geralt will return, you can't make a Witcher game, without Geralt. And I wouldn't say anything a VA has to say has a standing in what the devs do. Hale and Meer are both on record for saying they'd be back to voice Shepard. Do I take that as meaning we'll get Shepard in the next game? No. But I'd trade that to get Shepard, over Geralt, if that were so.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 19:02:27 GMT
Of all the reveiws I've read and heard on youtube about Andromeda, the number 1 complaint was the characters were boring, dull. As I've said before, more so than Shepard himself, its the crew that came along with him that made Mass Effect. And remember how happy people were that next to none of them returned for ME3? Quite the contrary you say? I am inclined to agree. And Andromeda only gave us some dull and "conveniently" characterized squadmates. And by "conveniently" I mean inconsistent, but in order to have them act in a manner that was convenient to what the writers wanted them to do or say, as per the occasion. A terrible way to go about writing them.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 13, 2020 19:06:48 GMT
Yet in all the criticisms I see in commentary and reviews, the core of the major complaints with Andromeda seem to revolve around the game's general quality in and of itself, not its departure from the familiar faces and setting. Of all the reveiws I've read and heard on youtube about Andromeda, the number 1 complaint was the characters were boring, dull. There are a lot of ways to handle it, but I'm willing to bet that the path of least resistance would be something that, perhaps unknowingly, just straight up canonizes MEHEM. Relays intact, Shepard alive, the geth still exist, the whole 9 yards. I'm sure some people will hate it, as many are wont to do, but they'll get over it and buy it too. I have nothing against the mod nor MrFob who created the mod, but it never interested me since I play the trilogy on the ps3. If Bioware were to go that route, I wouldn't have a problem. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware choose's to have the genophage cured instead of sabotaged. But then that kind of supports my point. Characters being dull is a problem independent of fan familiarity. If anything, a dull Garrus or Tali (heh, ME1 Tali more like), would just be worse even if the level of quality was exactly the same. The genophage would most definitely be saved, with Wrex canonized as the leader.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 19:18:07 GMT
But then that kind of supports my point. Characters being dull is a problem independent of fan familiarity. If anything, a dull Garrus or Tali (heh, ME1 Tali more like), would just be worse even if the level of quality was exactly the same. I'd say that is both a problem and, in itself, a solution. A new character, to an inexperienced writer, can be difficult to write. They can be inconsistent, they can be boring or unimaginative. They may also just not resonate with their audience. Garrus is Garrus. He is established, he is familiar, liked and defined. Unless you are a complete and total hack of a writer and even so, peer reviews should remedy that, you should be able to write three lines worth of Garrus. Which is about 3 lines more than any Andromeda character got. That is, by extension, better. Which brings me to my other point; even if you don't believe Shepard is the solution to ME's problem, his crew is. Unless you want to argue Bioware has nothing but hack writers left, so with that you have to also agree that everything Bioware has made the past 10 years or so, is utter shit, in terms of writing, meaning that Ryder, Peebee, Liam, Cora are all shit as well.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 13, 2020 19:27:22 GMT
But if you go back to Shepard and the Milky Way, you run the risk of angering those who liked Andromeda and their characters.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 13, 2020 19:36:42 GMT
I don't think anyone at Bioware wants to do another Shepard ME game at this point. At least I haven't seen, heard or read anything that would indicate otherwise. Bioware no longer do what they want. It's all corporate now. Has been for over a decade now. Seessh that thread. You guys really think down on people who like Bioware games do you?
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The homeostatic problem-solving structure
8860
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Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
8,560
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
4,808
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 13, 2020 19:42:12 GMT
But if you go back to Shepard and the Milky Way, you run the risk of angering those who liked Andromeda and their characters. But you know hey nobody liked it, youtube guy said so, and and heres some evidence... the circle continues
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Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 13, 2020 19:46:10 GMT
But then that kind of supports my point. Characters being dull is a problem independent of fan familiarity. If anything, a dull Garrus or Tali (heh, ME1 Tali more like), would just be worse even if the level of quality was exactly the same. I'd say that is both a problem and, in itself, a solution. A new character, to an inexperienced writer, can be difficult to write. They can be inconsistent, they can be boring or unimaginative. They may also just not resonate with their audience. Garrus is Garrus. He is established, he is familiar, liked and defined. Unless you are a complete and total hack of a writer and even so, peer reviews should remedy that, you should be able to write three lines worth of Garrus. Which is about 3 lines more than any Andromeda character got. That is, by extension, better. Which brings me to my other point; even if you don't believe Shepard is the solution to ME's problem, his crew is. Unless you want to argue Bioware has nothing but hack writers left, so with that you have to also agree that everything Bioware has made the past 10 years or so, is utter shit, in terms of writing, meaning that Ryder, Peebee, Liam, Cora are all shit as well. One thing I'm certain of, even with a Shepard-centric game, is that a fair amount of newness in the roster is guaranteed, and kind of necessary. The arcs of the old crew is kind of spent, and even if you had decent writers to work off of the old crew as a foundation, there would be a little bit of a ceiling in terms of intrigue. They might be more interesting for new players just getting into this, but as one who has been familiar with Garrus, Tali, Liara, James, Ash/Kaiden etc., I'd be pretty bored if I just had them again. Depicting a lasting relationship and having them experience new adventures works better in a more passive medium, but in a game where I interact and try to dive into companions' stories and background, just having that familiar cast member would just be treading old ground.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 20:23:35 GMT
Seessh that thread. You guys really think down on people who like Bioware games do you? No, I have nothing against the people, but I have everything against the quality of modern Bioware games and if someone wants to debate me, because of "subjectivity", they are welcome to their opinion and while their subjective opinion is a subjective fact, it is not an objective fact. To put it in broader terms, Bioware cannot cash in on your subjective opinion. But you know hey nobody liked it, youtube guy said so, and and heres some evidence... the circle continues If people agree with youtube guy, maybe youtube guy is making a good case. Maybe youtube guy's case is correct and if EA drops said game, maybe youtube guy had the right idea all along. Maybe Bioware should hire youtube guy, just to help steer them away from doing what youtube guy was arguing against. Avoiding bad calls eventually helps people make a good call. Sounds like youtube guy has a good head on his shoulders. I like youtube guy.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 13, 2020 20:33:48 GMT
One thing I'm certain of, even with a Shepard-centric game, is that a fair amount of newness in the roster is guaranteed, and kind of necessary. The arcs of the old crew is kind of spent, and even if you had decent writers to work off of the old crew as a foundation, there would be a little bit of a ceiling in terms of intrigue. They might be more interesting for new players just getting into this, but as one who has been familiar with Garrus, Tali, Liara, James, Ash/Kaiden etc., I'd be pretty bored if I just had them again. Depicting a lasting relationship and having them experience new adventures works better in a more passive medium, but in a game where I interact and try to dive into companions' stories and background, just having that familiar cast member would just be treading old ground. While you can say that and I would honestly like to move away from ALL the characters you named, the original Avengers, for example were Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Ant-Man and Wasp. And in the time since, the avengers have included these characters in some capacity, but also expanded and cycled around these characters, giving fresh takes along the way, introducing new arcs, new challenges and keeping the characters fresh and interesting all the way. And consider, if you please, the amount of content these comic books have churned out throughout the decades with these characters and the vast amount of content that has been produced of them, in comparison to how little Garrus, Tali and Liara, for example, there is. You may consider them depleted, I'd argue we've barely scraped the surface.
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The Smiling Knight
538
0
May 18, 2024 14:19:13 GMT
21,894
smilesja
13,737
August 2016
smilesja
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Post by smilesja on Feb 13, 2020 20:34:34 GMT
Yes they can, If I like the game, I'll buy it as a way of expressing my subjective opinion.
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