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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 14, 2020 19:39:06 GMT
I was fine with how they handled most of the ME2 characters in ME3, though Kelly absolutely got screwed over. T_T I agree. If the crew survived, there was no reason why Kelly and Gabby and Ken couldn't have been said to have joined the Alliance with Joker's recommendation and been already aboard the ship helping with the retrofits (since they already knew the ship). Traynor and Adams could have been solely substitute characters if the crew or part of the crew died in ME2, just as Dr. Michel could sub in for Dr. Chakwas, if she was killed (eliminating the big debate for sending Chakwas to the labs). Garrus could have been left off the squad, and he and Tali could have had direct substitutes for their roles the same way Legion did, with them just being available for certain missions related to their home-world story arc.worlds. Liara could have had the same treatment and the game could have rolled with just James and Javik as regulars on Shepard's squad. The only shipboard romance scenes available could have been with either Ashley or Kaidan and/or Kelly/Traynor and/or Cortez/James and Javik (through the DLC as a full romance). The rest of the romances could have been scenes on the Citadel (as it is with Miranda). I wouldn’t want Samantha to be a sub for Kelly. I’ve talked with others about this, and we think it would have been better if Kelly was a psychologist on the ship since that’s what she studied and the game could have her checking on others and trying to help them. I also would want any romance scene with her to keep the ambiguity of the sexual aspect of the romance. But yeah she should have had more on that front, at least in the Citadel DLC instead of being the only LI not in it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 14, 2020 19:40:44 GMT
Imagine the SM where only Jacob is scripted to die. Endless entertainment going forward, I'd say.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 14, 2020 19:41:29 GMT
I wouldn’t want Samantha to be a sub for Kelly. Unless she's into that sort of thing. Can't really stop consenting adults.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 14, 2020 19:42:22 GMT
I wouldn’t want Samantha to be a sub for Kelly. I'm not sure a Justicar would even be into that sort of thing. It says Samantha, not Samara. Also didn’t mean in that way.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 14, 2020 19:44:23 GMT
I'm not sure a Justicar would even be into that sort of thing. It says Samantha, not Samara. Also didn’t mean in that way. Goshdarn you, catching me before the edit. The internet's just too fast for me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 19:45:02 GMT
I agree. If the crew survived, there was no reason why Kelly and Gabby and Ken couldn't have been said to have joined the Alliance with Joker's recommendation and been already aboard the ship helping with the retrofits (since they already knew the ship). Traynor and Adams could have been solely substitute characters if the crew or part of the crew died in ME2, just as Dr. Michel could sub in for Dr. Chakwas, if she was killed (eliminating the big debate for sending Chakwas to the labs). Garrus could have been left off the squad, and he and Tali could have had direct substitutes for their roles the same way Legion did, with them just being available for certain missions related to their home-world story arc.worlds. Liara could have had the same treatment and the game could have rolled with just James and Javik as regulars on Shepard's squad. The only shipboard romance scenes available could have been with either Ashley or Kaidan and/or Kelly/Traynor and/or Cortez/James and Javik (through the DLC as a full romance). The rest of the romances could have been scenes on the Citadel (as it is with Miranda). I wouldn’t want Samantha to be a sub for Kelly. I’ve talked with others about this, and we think it would have been better if Kelly was a psychologist on the ship since that’s what she studied and the game could have her checking on others and trying to help them. I also would want any romance scene with her to keep the ambiguity of the sexual aspect of the romance. But yeah she should have had more on that front, at least in the Citadel DLC instead of being the only LI not in it. I would be hard pressed to explain why the Alliance would take on an ex-Cerberus yoeman (whose previous official job was handling Shepard's messages) as a psychologist in charge of ascertaining the mental well being of an Alliance crew based only on what she studied in school. Her being ex-Cerberus would, in my mind automatically disqualify her from being placed in such a position within the Alliance ranks. She doesn't even have the benefit of having been in the Alliance before hooking up with Cerberus to fall back on.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 14, 2020 19:46:52 GMT
I wouldn’t want Samantha to be a sub for Kelly. I’ve talked with others about this, and we think it would have been better if Kelly was a psychologist on the ship since that’s what she studied and the game could have her checking on others and trying to help them. I also would want any romance scene with her to keep the ambiguity of the sexual aspect of the romance. But yeah she should have had more on that front, at least in the Citadel DLC instead of being the only LI not in it. I would be hard pressed to explain why the Alliance would take on an ex-Cerberus yoeman whose previous official job was handling Shepard's messages as a psychologist in charge of ascertaining the mental well being of an Alliance crew based only on what she studied in school. Her being ex-Cerberus would, in my mind automatically disqualify her from being placed in such a position within the Alliance ranks. Have it be like with Gabby and Ken, where you use your status to bust them out and put them on your crew.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 19:50:06 GMT
I would be hard pressed to explain why the Alliance would take on an ex-Cerberus yoeman whose previous official job was handling Shepard's messages as a psychologist in charge of ascertaining the mental well being of an Alliance crew based only on what she studied in school. Her being ex-Cerberus would, in my mind automatically disqualify her from being placed in such a position within the Alliance ranks. Have it be like with Gabby and Ken, where you use your status to bust them out and put them on your crew. Except that Shepard can currently be not in favor of her practicing psychology in ME2 and, as I added above, she's not former Alliance and not subject to military arrest in the first place. Gabby and Ken are ex-Alliance, so they are looking a military charges or reinstatement (if approved by Shepard).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 14, 2020 19:55:56 GMT
Have it be like with Gabby and Ken, where you use your status to bust them out and put them on your crew. Except that Shepard can currently be not in favor of her practicing psychology in ME2 and, as I added above, she's not former Alliance and not subject to military arrest in the first place. Gabby and Ken are ex-Alliance, so they are looking a military charges or reinstatement (if approved by Shepard). Wouldn’t that put people like Joker, Gabby, and Ken in even worse a position since besides working for Cerberus they also were traitors to the Alliance? When surrendering, that could have been part of the deal with leniency. And again, you’re a Spectre so you can do whatever you want. Also she’d hardly be the only ex-Cerberus person the Alliance and Citadel are willing to work with. We have multiple quests about it. Also why say she’d be in Samantha’s place of you now think she’d never be allowed on the Normandy?
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 14, 2020 20:02:42 GMT
I would be hard pressed to explain why the Alliance would take on an ex-Cerberus yoeman whose previous official job was handling Shepard's messages as a psychologist in charge of ascertaining the mental well being of an Alliance crew based only on what she studied in school. Her being ex-Cerberus would, in my mind automatically disqualify her from being placed in such a position within the Alliance ranks. Have it be like with Gabby and Ken, where you use your status to bust them out and put them on your crew. The question then though becomes what role she would serve on an Alliance ship. In ME2, her role made more sense since we were collecting a grab bag of weirdos of varying strengths of personality to observe. Gabby and Ken had clear roles essential to the ship itself, but with so few companions in ME2, she might feel out of place. I'm just curious as to how she managed to be free while Gabby and Ken got snagged up by the Alliance.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 20:03:50 GMT
Except that Shepard can currently be not in favor of her practicing psychology in ME2 and, as I added above, she's not former Alliance and not subject to military arrest in the first place. Gabby and Ken are ex-Alliance, so they are looking a military charges or reinstatement (if approved by Shepard). Wouldn’t that put people like Joker, Gabby, and Ken in even worse a position since besides working for Cerberus they also were traitors to the Alliance? When surrendering, that could have been part of the deal with leniency. And again, you’re a Spectre so you can do whatever you want. Also she’d hardly be the only ex-Cerberus person the Alliance and Citadel are willing to work with. We have multiple quests about it. Also why say she’d be in Samantha’s place of you now think she’d never be allowed on the Normandy? Being ex-Alliance is the only reason it comes up with Joker (who is under guard when brought to the ship at EDI's request). Dr. Chakwas is ex-Alliance and states that she got off the hook by having taken a proper leave of absence and her seniority also probably helped to get her off the hook.
Kelly isn't ex-Alliance, so the Alliance cannot arrest her just for being a member of Cerberus. You'll also notice that Garrus, Tali, and the others are not under arrest at all. It's because they were not Alliance to start with. Jacob avoids it by being still with Cerberus and disappearing with the scientists. Jack isn't subject to arrest, but her biotic skill causes her to be recruited by the Alliance.
I actually don't think the Alliance would put her onto the Normandy at all. It would have to be an invitation by Shepard (similar to Dr. Chakwas). If Kelly is dead, there would have to be a scene where perhaps Anderson would recommend Traynor to Shepard to serve as his/her Yoeman and he/she would have the option to accept or reject her as well... just as it is possible for Shepard to run through ME3 without having any doctor onboard.
Conversely, Traynor's role could have been revamped and made a choice between her and Liara (as intel gatherers), with Kelly having no replacement at all. If dead or if unwilling to invite her onboard, Shepard would just have to manage without any sort of yoeman.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 14, 2020 20:12:30 GMT
Imagine the SM where only Jacob is scripted to die. Endless entertainment going forward, I'd say. The way they've treated Jacob in ME3 had some racist overtones.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 14, 2020 20:16:32 GMT
If the crew survived, there was no reason why Kelly and Gabby and Ken couldn't have been said to have joined the Alliance with Joker's recommendation and been already aboard the ship helping with the retrofits (since they already knew the ship). Why Moreau's recomendation? He joined Cerberus to fly. He didn't care about their background. Traynor as a substitute? For who? No one before her knew comms like her. I agree. If he survives ME2, have him play as Victus' secretary. After the genophage has been dealt with, he heads back with Victus. If he's dead, it will be same as it's currently in ME3. Tali didn't need to be on the squad for peace to happen. Have her fill the role that Xen and Raan have in the game. If she's dead in ME3, then ME3 plays out the same I would send her to Hackett after Mars since at that time, she had the most knowledge about the protheans and can help translate the plans. When it comes time for From Ashes dlc and Thessia, she joins, but not as a squadmate. I would agree if Javik wasn't dlc. I would also not have the hologram become a platform. No need for it. Since Vega is new, why not have two other squadmates that are new? After talking with the council, the asari councilor recommends taking an asari commando and the salarian councilor suggests taking an engineer. I wouldn’t want Samantha to be a sub for Kelly. I’ve talked with others about this, and we think it would have been better if Kelly was a psychologist on the ship since that’s what she studied and the game could have her checking on others and trying to help them. Yep. It's something I've mentioned before a few times. The idea can work for ME4.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 14, 2020 20:17:37 GMT
Imagine the SM where only Jacob is scripted to die. Endless entertainment going forward, I'd say. The way they've treated Jacob in ME3 had some racist overtones. The random knockup in just within 6 months is kind of hilarious. I'm like, a little too on the nose, eh BioWare?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 20:21:38 GMT
If the crew survived, there was no reason why Kelly and Gabby and Ken couldn't have been said to have joined the Alliance with Joker's recommendation and been already aboard the ship helping with the retrofits (since they already knew the ship). Why Moreau's recomendation? He joined Cerberus to fly. He didn't care about their background. Traynor as a substitute? For who? No one before her knew comms like her. I agree. If he survives ME2, have him play as Victus' secretary. After the genophage has been dealt with, he heads back with Victus. If he's dead, it will be same as it's currently in ME3. Tali didn't need to be on the squad for peace to happen. Have her fill the role that Xen and Raan have in the game. If she's dead in ME3, then ME3 plays out the same I would send her to Hackett after Mars since at that time, she had the most knowledge about the protheans and can help translate the plans. When it comes time for From Ashes dlc and Thessia, she joins, but not as a squadmate. I would agree if Javik wasn't dlc. I would also not have the hologram become a platform. No need for it. Since Vega is new, why not have two other squadmates that are new? After talking with the council, the asari councilor recommends taking an asari commando and the salarian councilor suggests taking an engineer. I wouldn’t want Samantha to be a sub for Kelly. I’ve talked with others about this, and we think it would have been better if Kelly was a psychologist on the ship since that’s what she studied and the game could have her checking on others and trying to help them. Yep. It's something I've mentioned before a few times. The idea can work for ME4. Why Moreau's - he worked with them and, at the time, he's the one aboard the ship.
I'm going to ignore the rest of your drivel since I've already addressed some of it in my response to Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 14, 2020 20:30:37 GMT
Have it be like with Gabby and Ken, where you use your status to bust them out and put them on your crew. The question then though becomes what role she would serve on an Alliance ship. In ME2, her role made more sense since we were collecting a grab bag of weirdos of varying strengths of personality to observe. Gabby and Ken had clear roles essential to the ship itself, but with so few companions in ME2, she might feel out of place. I'm just curious as to how she managed to be free while Gabby and Ken got snagged up by the Alliance. As I said above, she could be the ship psychiatrist. Every person on the ship go through a lot during the game where having one on board could be useful.Plus could lead to insight in the characters for the player. Basically, to use Lexi from MEA as an example who does both instead Chakwas/Michel handle physical while Kelly handles emotional.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 14, 2020 20:41:06 GMT
The question then though becomes what role she would serve on an Alliance ship. In ME2, her role made more sense since we were collecting a grab bag of weirdos of varying strengths of personality to observe. Gabby and Ken had clear roles essential to the ship itself, but with so few companions in ME2, she might feel out of place. I'm just curious as to how she managed to be free while Gabby and Ken got snagged up by the Alliance. As I said above, she could be the ship psychiatrist. Every person on the ship go through a lot during the game where having one on board could be useful.Plus could lead to insight in the characters for the player. Basically, to use Lexi from MEA as an example who does both instead Chakwas/Michel handle physical while Kelly handles emotional. I would've especially enjoyed hearing her thoughts on Javik.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 14, 2020 20:44:21 GMT
Why Moreau's - he worked with them and, at the time, he's the one aboard the ship. My Shepard worked with them. Had no problem with them. So she/he doesn't need any recomendation from the pilot. Shepard would use their spectre status to have them on the ship So you only addressed some your drivel, but not all.
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Post by burningcherry on Feb 14, 2020 21:21:25 GMT
Are you arguing that no old crewmate should have been left out of any of the games? Because then you are making my argument for me. I mean, I get what you are trying to accomplish, but it in no way contradicts my case. It just further solidifies my case throughout the trilogy and how Bioware mismanaged the IP. Quite the opposite, I think that no one deserves a place anywhere, still fun to make point that leaving the old crew behind was nothing new but already became the series's usual way to go.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 22:49:17 GMT
Why Moreau's - he worked with them and, at the time, he's the one aboard the ship. My Shepard worked with them. Had no problem with them. So she/he doesn't need any recomendation from the pilot. Shepard would use their spectre status to have them on the ship So you only addressed some your drivel, but not all. Stop being silly. I'm referring to them already being appointed to Anderson's staff on Normandy while Shepard is still in detention. That is, Shepard comes aboard to find them already on the ship. Just as Shepard had no say in whether or not the Alliance recruited Jack to Grissom Academy. But, if you prefer the "spectre authorization" for everything, then I revised the idea (in my response to Hanako Ikezawa ) so that such a choice could be implemented without the concept of somehow freeing Kelly from Alliance-related charges when she was never in the Alliance.
To address your other drivel. The idea of Garrus acting as Victus' secretary is just stupid.
Since Traynor was a new character, her role could be revamped and her skill set adjusted accordingly to fit any need in the game. For example, she could have been introduced as having appropriate combat skills to replace Liara's as a full member of the squad (also set out in my response to Hanako Ikezawa )
...and some of your drivel wasn't even in response to me, but responding to other people.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 15, 2020 18:11:52 GMT
My Shepard worked with them. Had no problem with them. So she/he doesn't need any recomendation from the pilot. Shepard would use their spectre status to have them on the ship So you only addressed some your drivel, but not all. Stop being silly. I'm referring to them already being appointed to Anderson's staff on Normandy while Shepard is still in detention. That is, Shepard comes aboard to find them already on the ship. Just as Shepard had no say in whether or not the Alliance recruited Jack to Grissom Academy. But, if you prefer the "spectre authorization" for everything, then I revised the idea (in my response to Hanako Ikezawa ) so that such a choice could be implemented without the concept of somehow freeing Kelly from Alliance-related charges when she was never in the Alliance.
To address your other drivel. The idea of Garrus acting as Victus' secretary is just stupid.
Since Traynor was a new character, her role could be revamped and her skill set adjusted accordingly to fit any need in the game. For example, she could have been introduced as having appropriate combat skills to replace Liara's as a full member of the squad (also set out in my response to Hanako Ikezawa )
...and some of your drivel wasn't even in response to me, but responding to other people.
Yeah Garrus is a soldier and a damn good one. He's not someone for sitting at a desk taking notes he wants to be where the action is as that's when he's at his best. I think the Primarch knew this which was why he gave permission to Garrus to stay and act as a liason betewen the Alliance an the Turians from aboard the Normandy. I tend to use Garrus a lot in the trilogy especially in ME2 and 3. Also he works well with Liara's Biotic talents and Tali's technical prowess as well. As I tend to use those 3 a lot in my team combinations of course that also depends really on what my Shepard is as well. But generally speaking those 3 are my go to squadmates especially for the bigger more important missions.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 15, 2020 19:28:59 GMT
Garrus is the God of War and Death!
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Post by Phantom on Feb 15, 2020 20:01:01 GMT
Garrus is the God of War and Death! that is beautiful. thank you Hanako.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 15, 2020 20:48:08 GMT
Stop being silly. I'm referring to them already being appointed to Anderson's staff on Normandy while Shepard is still in detention. That is, Shepard comes aboard to find them already on the ship. Ok. So why wouldn't Anderson talk to Shepard about who he/she would have on the staff? He says he trusts Shepard. He's spoken to Shepard while under house arrest. If he trusts Shepard, a recommendation from Moreau is unnecessary. So drivel is your new word? Have you ever posted any drivel? Would assistant or advisor work for you? On Menae, Vakarian says without Victus down here, we have a good chance to lose this moon, yet he's willing to leave to help Shepard even though Shepard already has enough on the roster. He wasn't needed as a squadmate. The game proves that if he dies in ME2. If anything, Victus would ask Garrus to join him to help him deal with all information being received about his species and whatever else.
As much as I would like for Traynor to replace t'soni, that wouldn't work. Why? If Vega is on the roster and Sam on the roster, that's 2 human's on the roster out of 3. Fans would not be thrilled about that. The other is Traynor would be better as an engineer than as a biotic. This is somnething that was talked about on the old forum about if certain characters were to be squadmates. If anything, replace Vega with a turian soldier, one recommended by the turian councilor, and have Traynor take the spot of the hologram. There was no reason for it to have a platform. As I said, I would have the asari councilor suggest taking a commando since t'soni would be sent to Hackett. With Vega, have him and A/K switch roles. Vega wasn't happy about leaving Earth. On Mars, instead of A/K getting seriously injured, the evabot is dealt with before causing any problems. On the Citadel, Vega tells Shepard he's going to hang around waiting for a ship to takew him back to Earth. After completing a mission or two, Shepard see's Vega talking with Udina. Vega is assigned to security detail for the council. Shepard faces him during the coup. After that, Shepard can ask if Vega wants to join or not. No kidding. Part of my reply was to one other poster. Is there a reason you brought that up? Or was it because it gave you another chance to use the word drivel?
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 15, 2020 21:41:52 GMT
Are you arguing that no old crewmate should have been left out of any of the games? Because then you are making my argument for me. I mean, I get what you are trying to accomplish, but it in no way contradicts my case. It just further solidifies my case throughout the trilogy and how Bioware mismanaged the IP. Quite the opposite, I think that no one deserves a place anywhere, still fun to make point that leaving the old crew behind was nothing new but already became the series's usual way to go. It's almost as if the folks incensed about ME2 characters not having major roles in ME3 didn't notice the ME1 characters who got sidelined for ME2...
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