revelationeffect
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 15, 2019 17:15:28 GMT
Yeah, when they're implemented well it can add a whole other level of emotional engagement, especially in DA's case where there have historically always been options to romance characters who are responsible for Major Plot Shit. And even beyond that, it's just a pretty neat feature, and as others have said, gives overt opportunity for LGBT protagonists, which is really cool.
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Post by simit on Sept 15, 2019 17:30:15 GMT
Dont think they regretted it, no doubt at the time they thought it a grand idea, but as been previously stated they probably never thought they become as big as they have an i wouldn't be surprised if some writers are tired of writing them or some animators cringing while animating scenes.
I think if Anthem showed anything it was ppl still willing to buy a BioWare game without them but it can also be argued that they hid how bad the games are without them. I'd defer still be willing to buy a BioWare game without romance/companions but they'd really need to up there game by a huge amount in story and especially gameplay.
Taking companions/romance out a DA/ME game now though is probably a huge no, though again i am one that would still try it, and probably left for a new IP if indeed they ever do one in my time.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 15, 2019 21:12:59 GMT
But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand graphic sex scenes, they demand more and more romance options, they demand weddings, they demand certain romanceable characters: dwarves, elves, quarians, AIs, etc. They demand that this character be gay, this one be straight, this one be bi, and so on. But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand 4K resolution and at least 60 fps, they demand the ability to own slaves in the game, they demand that female characters have their chins shaved down and their tits exposed, etc. They demand that this character be white, this one be white, this other one be white, and so on.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 15, 2019 21:28:55 GMT
But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand graphic sex scenes, they demand more and more romance options, they demand weddings, they demand certain romanceable characters: dwarves, elves, quarians, AIs, etc. They demand that this character be gay, this one be straight, this one be bi, and so on. But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand 4K resolution and at least 60 fps, they demand the ability to own slaves in the game, they demand that female characters have their chins shaved down and their tits exposed, etc. They demand that this character be white, this one be white, this other one be white, and so on. I see the words, but put together in that order, they makes no sense.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 15, 2019 22:06:19 GMT
But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand 4K resolution and at least 60 fps, they demand the ability to own slaves in the game, they demand that female characters have their chins shaved down and their tits exposed, etc. They demand that this character be white, this one be white, this other one be white, and so on. I see the words, but put together in that order, they makes no sense. Well I've definitely seen people demand ridiculous things like pessimistpanda said. Some of it I remember being posted in old BSN.
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Post by dielveio on Sept 15, 2019 22:11:18 GMT
Yes
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 15, 2019 22:34:46 GMT
But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand 4K resolution and at least 60 fps, they demand the ability to own slaves in the game, they demand that female characters have their chins shaved down and their tits exposed, etc. They demand that this character be white, this one be white, this other one be white, and so on. I see the words, but put together in that order, they makes no sense. Sorry, let me try again: Many fan whine all time about all game. Romance not only part of game fan whine about. Not even part that fan whine about MOST. You not better than romance fan. Especially not better than gay fan, who ask for same thing you get all time. After big Anthem whine, no fan can say don't whine.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Sept 15, 2019 23:11:01 GMT
Different writers have expressed some regret in the past that it is such a HUGE thing I think this is probably the case for many of the writers at some time or other, even if they generally enjoy adding romance content. I'm sure it can be frustrating to see fans focus on that content to the exclusion of all else; there are some examples in this very thread. Last year, I redid my DAO canon with a new Warden. I played him as gay, but didn't romance anyone. (Though for full disclosure, as Cousland, I was able to portray him as gay in having sex with Dairren.) To my surprise, my character's closest relationship in the game ended up being with Leliana, whom he considered a close friend. I enjoyed that play quite a bit. My DAA Orlesian Warden is also gay; I have some headcanon for this, but obviously can't act that out with romance. In a way, I found the lack of romance liberating for those characters because I didn't have to worry about hitting certain relationship marks and so on. I played that game with complete disregard for perfect relationships and relied solely on dialogue choices; if a character disliked my Warden, then so be it. It felt like the purest roleplay I've ever done. I enjoyed that experience so much that I ended up doing the same with DA2. DA2 falls in a sort of middle ground for me. While I really like Fenris and his romance and have their relationship as continuing headcanon for my Hawke, I don't feel that the romance specifically was essential to my play. The situation is much different for my Inquisitor, who romances Dorian. It took a couple of plays to get things right in my head, but a large part of my Inquisitor's roleplay and my headcanon for the character is built as a contrast for Dorian. My Inquisitor would not exist as he is without Dorian and the romance; I would not have written tens of thousands of words of fanfic without Dorian. Dragon Age: Inquisition is my favorite game in the franchise and my Inquisitor is my favorite DA protagonist, which is a direct result of Dorian, who is my favorite character in the franchise. It's very circumstantial for me. I don't feel that romances are required for me to enjoy the game, but they do have the potential to drastically increase enjoyment, add to my character's roleplay, and contribute a great deal to the replay value, even with romancing the same character repeatedly.
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 15, 2019 23:49:13 GMT
I think any regret should not be that romances are in the game, but that they have become such an important focus. As has been said before, romances are a good opportunity to roleplay. They add personality to characters, and make for a fine addition for side-quests. But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand graphic sex scenes, they demand more and more romance options, they demand weddings, they demand certain romanceable characters: dwarves, elves, quarians, AIs, etc. They demand that this character be gay, this one be straight, this one be bi, and so on. As a result, more and more zots have to be sunk into a portion of the game that not everyone even cares about, rather than just keeping it a fun little bit of SIDE content. Edit: And don't get me wrong, I LIKE romances, and want to see them continue to be put into games. But they shouldn't be the huge focus they have become. I swear the sky is falling when Iakus calls fans entitled. But yeah, this is pretty much on the nose. I like them too, love the fact that I have options as someone who happens to be bisexual when it comes to character choices, but folks take it too far sometimes. That said I doubt they regret it, if anything the only regret is how they have to walk eggshells with it. Just let it be natural.
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Post by Dukemon on Sept 16, 2019 0:46:01 GMT
I am going with the point of view that romances are part of each Bioware rpg. Something the most people expecting, I guess. I do it. In the latest games it is the only way to show any sort of character development for the PC in the story that is growing. The character evolution during a game from Bioware is not really existing. The Warden were able to do so because Bioware gives the player a bunch of dialog choices, no voice acting and a tool kit for new horizons for the own head canon. Bioware was built up Shepard for two games. In the final game Shepard acted like a stranger with a split personality. I mean in game play he is similar to earlier appearances. However, the only character development that works is in a relationship. Ryder did a way better development in one Game in his role as Rookie Leader. Although he had to much Ami Oneliner. But he works better with a relationship, because sibling is in the whole game the Space Sleeping Beauty. Further I would say that Hawke could work without a romance, way better than the Inquisitor. Inquisitor is the most boring PC from Bioware. He has not anything that could changing. It has no matter how often you choose similar kinds of respons. The romances are not more than "Giggling behind a held hand" Atleast the romance with Josephine is a little entertaining.
To answer the question. I guess not, Bioware regrets the romances. The customers should not expect them. Not all of them in each game. In the end I still have the opinion that these romances are the only way to express a character development during a Bioware game. If any, all other decisions get followed consequences in the next game.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 1:03:30 GMT
If they didn't have gay romances, I wouldn't buy their boring games, so if they regret taking my money, then they are welcome to shut down. This made me remember how the option for gay men wasn't there in ME1 or 2. Carrying a character over for 3 games and only given options in the last was really messed up. For fun, I sometimes reorganize the romances. ME1: Gay male options- Bi Kaidan Straight female options- Bi Kaidan Gay female options- Liara Straight male options- Liara Ashley ME2: Gay male options- Bi Kaidan Bi Garrus Gay dude who replaces Jacob (make it Zaeed perhaps) Straight female options- Bi Kaidan Bi Garrus Straight Thane Gay female options- Liara Bi Tali Gay Jack Straight male options- Liara Ashley Bi Tali Straight Miranda ME3: Gay male options- Bi Kaidan Bi Garrus Gay dude who replaces Jacob (make it Zaeed perhaps) Gay Cortez Straight female options- Bi Kaidan Bi Garrus Straight Thane Straight Vega Gay female options- Liara Bi Tali Gay Jack Gay Traynor Straight male options- Liara Ashley Bi Tali Straight Miranda Ace- Kelly
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revelationeffect
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 16, 2019 1:09:14 GMT
I am going with the point of view that romances are part of each Bioware rpg. Something the most people expecting, I guess. I do it. In the latest games it is the only way to show any sort of character development for the PC in the story that is growing. The character evolution during a game from Bioware is not really existing. The Warden were able to do so because Bioware gives the player a bunch of dialog choices, no voice acting and a tool kit for new horizons for the own head canon. Bioware was built up Shepard for two games. In the final game Shepard acted like a stranger with a split personality. I mean in game play he is similar to earlier appearances. However, the only character development that works is in a relationship. Ryder did a way better development in one Game in his role as Rookie Leader. Although he had to much Ami Oneliner. But he works better with a relationship, because sibling is in the whole game the Space Sleeping Beauty. Further I would say that Hawke could work without a romance, way better than the Inquisitor. Inquisitor is the most boring PC from Bioware. He has not anything that could changing. It has no matter how often you choose similar kinds of respons. The romances are not more than "Giggling behind a held hand" Atleast the romance with Josephine is a little entertaining. To answer the question. I guess not, Bioware regrets the romances. The customers should not expect them. Not all of them in each game. In the end I still have the opinion that these romances are the only way to express a character development during a Bioware game. If any, all other decisions get followed consequences in the next game. Really? I’d say Ryder is the least impressive protagonist role play-wise BioWare has ever produced. Their options largely fall into two groupings: stoic professional or emotional goofball, and about the best you could do development-wise is to phase out one type in favor of the other. The Inquisitor certainly isn’t a landmark moment for RP, and is often a bit bland outside of significant dialogues, but there is at least a decent range of emotional options, and you can relatively easily express character development through those. Also generally speaking, with any of the protagonists, exclusively picking only one type of option is liable to give you a very one-note character, and that could go just as easily for the Warden as the Inquisitor.
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 16, 2019 1:15:32 GMT
If they didn't have gay romances, I wouldn't buy their boring games, so if they regret taking my money, then they are welcome to shut down. This made me remember how the option for gay men wasn't there in ME1 or 2. Carrying a character over for 3 games and only given options in the last was really messed up. For fun, I sometimes reorganize the romances. ME1: Gay male options- Bi Kaidan Straight female options- Bi Kaidan Gay female options- Liara Straight male options- Liara Ashley ME2: Gay male options- Bi Kaidan Bi Garrus Gay dude who replaces Jacob (make it Zaeed perhaps) Straight female options- Bi Kaidan Bi Garrus Straight Thane Gay female options- Liara Bi Tali Gay Jack Straight male options- Liara Ashley Bi Tali Straight Miranda ME3: Gay male options- Bi Kaidan Bi Garrus Gay dude who replaces Jacob (make it Zaeed perhaps) Gay Cortez Straight female options- Bi Kaidan Bi Garrus Straight Thane Straight Vega Gay female options- Liara Bi Tali Gay Jack Gay Traynor Straight male options- Liara Ashley Bi Tali Straight Miranda Ace- Kelly Yeah, the ME team has always been pretty shit about that. See also how there was no mlm squad romance in Andromeda until they literally patched back in cut content for bi Jaal. Also how they cut out same-gender romance for Thane, Jack, and Tali in ME2, leaving everyone except Kelly and Liara in the DLC straight. Pretty conspicuous how it’s only ever the LGBT romance content that gets cut with the ME team. And especially the mlm content, too, because that’s more threatening to fragile heterosexuality than wlw, which gets handwaved as “lesbians hot”.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 16, 2019 1:39:56 GMT
Gonna be honest it is a big selling point to me. It was the final straw that made me not buy anthem. I was on the fence and probably wasn't gonna buy it but once I heard it had no romance I just stopped watching stuff on it. Bioware's biggest strength is companions. They do it better then anyone else and the romances are part of that.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 16, 2019 1:44:01 GMT
But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand graphic sex scenes, they demand more and more romance options, they demand weddings, they demand certain romanceable characters: dwarves, elves, quarians, AIs, etc. They demand that this character be gay, this one be straight, this one be bi, and so on. But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand 4K resolution and at least 60 fps, they demand the ability to own slaves in the game, they demand that female characters have their chins shaved down and their tits exposed, etc. They demand that this character be white, this one be white, this other one be white, and so on. Uh I don't remember anyone saying they wanted to own slaves in the game much less demanding it. Not sure what you mean by chins shaved down. And I have heard nothing on people saying everyone should be white. Also I also don't remember anyone saying they wanted woman walking around topless in any serious way. In fact I remember jack getting criticized about running around with just her nipples covered.
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 16, 2019 2:23:26 GMT
But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand 4K resolution and at least 60 fps, they demand the ability to own slaves in the game, they demand that female characters have their chins shaved down and their tits exposed, etc. They demand that this character be white, this one be white, this other one be white, and so on. Uh I don't remember anyone saying they wanted to own slaves in the game much less demanding it. Not sure what you mean by chins shaved down. And I have heard nothing on people saying everyone should be white. Also I also don't remember anyone saying they wanted woman walking around topless in any serious way. In fact I remember jack getting criticized about running around with just her nipples covered. There have been some people, and by that I mean super vocal extreme minorities who regularly get banned and make new accounts (at least on old BSN), who harp on stuff like Cassandra being less attractive in DA:I than she was in DA2 and would go to ridiculous lengths to "prove" that. Pessimistpanda is naturally exaggerating it all though because that's what he does.
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 16, 2019 2:29:31 GMT
But fans have become, let's face it, entitled. They demand 4K resolution and at least 60 fps, they demand the ability to own slaves in the game, they demand that female characters have their chins shaved down and their tits exposed, etc. They demand that this character be white, this one be white, this other one be white, and so on. Uh I don't remember anyone saying they wanted to own slaves in the game much less demanding it. Not sure what you mean by chins shaved down. And I have heard nothing on people saying everyone should be white. Also I also don't remember anyone saying they wanted woman walking around topless in any serious way. In fact I remember jack getting criticized about running around with just her nipples covered. I mean, I have seen all of those things in the past. The slave thing usually comes up during discussions about the ability to be capital-E evil in the games. Lots of dipshits complained a great deal about Cassandra and later Cora being too “masculine”, frequently citing things like chin size. And plenty of people start whining about “forced diversity” whenever a non-white character gets added (this goes for any minority really, but especially when it comes to race). As for the topless thing, that’s more of an exaggeration of the usual discourse about graphic sex scenes, I would imagine.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Sept 16, 2019 2:44:57 GMT
who harp on stuff like Cassandra being less attractive in DA:I than she was in DA2 and would go to ridiculous lengths to "prove" that For those unfamiliar, the poster Steel is referencing actually had charts regarding femininity and skull overlays illustrating how "manly" Cassandra supposedly is. (For what it's worth, I think she's considerably more attractive in DAI than DA2. The next time I play DA2, I might even use one of those "make Cassandra look like her DAI self" mods.)
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Post by slayer299 on Sept 16, 2019 3:07:48 GMT
These topics usually end up with a bunch of straight people going '' what a sad human being you are, a pathetic excuse for a person, for needing your games to have gay romances? You piece of lowlife trash, how dare you require this? I DON'T NEED IT, I DON'T WANT IT, SO WHY DO YOU? Do you really need a GAME to VALIDATE your EXISTENCE? How pathetic, how sad. '' I'd be fine with no romances if it still meant that there were tons of gay romances amongst the NPCs. But honestly, the only reason I started playing Dragon Age was because of the gay romances, and if they take them away I don't think I'd have much of a reason to continue playing. Okay, seriously with the "These topics usually end up with a bunch of straight people" why do you feel the need to go there with people you don't know or have met and start the orientation crap. Did the validity of their opinions (whether they are good or not) get assigned a higher/lower number based on that?
Now I wont say such things aren't said or you haven't seen them or had them pointed at you, but gross assumptions are just beyond stupid or is it okay for anyone to start pigeon-holing you based on your comment that you likek gay romances?
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Romances are a part of human interaction, both in RL and in the RPGs today. I know before they were a side-dish to the main story, but now they seem to be pushed to be the prime focus in the game rather than the story. Another problem with them is the fact that you have loud people yelling and tweeting about this must be in or out for those romances otherwise its "excluding" someone and at some point the devs need to say "thank you for your feedback, *but*, this isn't a game about romances with a just a side of story, but a story that has some romances. Here is some peeks at our story and game that we can share with you (insert marketing person)."
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 16, 2019 3:08:39 GMT
Uh I don't remember anyone saying they wanted to own slaves in the game much less demanding it. Not sure what you mean by chins shaved down. And I have heard nothing on people saying everyone should be white. Also I also don't remember anyone saying they wanted woman walking around topless in any serious way. In fact I remember jack getting criticized about running around with just her nipples covered. I mean, I have seen all of those things in the past. The slave thing usually comes up during discussions about the ability to be capital-E evil in the games. Lots of dipshits complained a great deal about Cassandra and later Cora being too “masculine”, frequently citing things like chin size. And plenty of people start whining about “forced diversity” whenever a non-white character gets added (this goes for any minority really, but especially when it comes to race). As for the topless thing, that’s more of an exaggeration of the usual discourse about graphic sex scenes, I would imagine. I distinctly remember people complaining that Josie's dress "hides her whole body" (not even talking about a sex scene; just the fact that there's no cleavage or sideboob in her normal outfit I guess?? Notice how nobody's complaining about Blackwall or Cullen's clothes hiding anything). And at least one poster whose chief complaint and stated reason for not romancing Josephine was 'cause she's not white. And that's not even getting started on the "beautiful Isabela" mod (aka, white, blonde, blue-eyed mod 😬), complaints about Cassandra and Cora's jawline/hair, complaints from dudes about how the fictional lesbian doesn' meet their standards of hotness, etc. Might seem like an exaggeration to some, but this is pretty much classic BSN stuff.
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Post by phoray on Sept 16, 2019 3:20:02 GMT
No. Maybe admit it can be a double edged sword, but no.
and they dove into Anthem waving their freak no romance flag. I'm not saying that's what bit them, because trying to make something from scratch in 18 months with no plan in place is what bit them. But it sure didn't help.
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 16, 2019 3:29:13 GMT
No. Maybe admit it can be a double edged sword, but no. and they dove into Anthem waving their freak no romance flag. I'm not saying that's what bit them, because trying to make something from scratch in 18 months with no plan in place is what bit them. But it sure didn't help. Honestly I think no romances was the way to go for Anthem, if only because that game didn't need another tacked on mechanic to further divide attention and resources on the developer's side. That said, I'd be curious to know when they made that decision and if they were originally going to include romances in the game before it got rebuilt.
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Nightscrawl
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Sept 16, 2019 5:01:24 GMT
I know before they were a side-dish to the main story, but now they seem to be pushed to be the prime focus in the game rather than the story. Pushed by whom? Not by the writers, since the games can be played perfectly well without a romance. I know some players feel that, for example, the Solas romance is pivotal, but it should be emphasized that those players speak only for themselves and their own experience. I don't particularly like Solas and in fact am not overly interested in anything to do with elves, so his romance adds nothing at all for me. Even if I take my own romance, Dorian, his friendship path is also quite nice. While the romance does add more depth to his character, as you get to see a part of him not revealed on the friend path, it's not meant to be the focus of anything. I've also done the Alistair and Anders romances and feel that their respective games are just fine and fulfilling without those romances as well. All of the romances I've played in the DA games have been exactly what they are: supplementary, optional content. If anything, the focus on romances by players is what gives this impression, but understand that the forum population is not representative of the playerbase as a whole.
[edit] In addition, given that the majority of players only complete the game a single time, and there are also a chunk that never finish at all, it seems silly that they would design a romance to be so very important, particularly one that is gender and race restricted.
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 16, 2019 5:08:06 GMT
I see the words, but put together in that order, they makes no sense. Sorry, let me try again: Many fan whine all time about all game. Romance not only part of game fan whine about. Not even part that fan whine about MOST. You not better than romance fan. Especially not better than gay fan, who ask for same thing you get all time. After big Anthem whine, no fan can say don't whine.
Hm.... where did I put that dictionary?
Romance, like a story, is subject to criticism from multiple groups. It's subjective. Ergo, the whine. Some criticize out of ignorance and some respond with indifference. Which reminds me. Can anyone answer the question "What is the difference between ignorance and indifference" in seven words?
This question was posed to a typical rebellious teenager in high school. Upon insistence by the teacher she finally replied " I don't know and I don't care!" ... which, by all accounts, is an excellent and correct response.
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Conquer Your Dreams
N3
Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: stescooter100
Posts: 938 Likes: 1,360
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Conquer Your Dreams
Say that you love me
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Mar 19, 2017 16:04:04 GMT
March 2017
ste100
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
stescooter100
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Sept 16, 2019 7:33:40 GMT
Maybe they do, maybe not.
Personally I prefer quality over quantity about romances like in W3, where romances felt much more natural as they grow up with your progress. BioWare romances been fine in ME1/DA1 but later they focus too much on it - and they simply fail. To be honest the only romance in ME series (and I did almost all of them) which felt very natural was Tali - ME2 - they way she speaks to and about Shep, they way she behave in his presence, things she said during her personal quest etc. Thane was also nicely done.
I always prefer Miranda for my Shep but this is because of absolutely stunning voice acting from Yvonne Strahowski; Ash was my favourite character in ME1 but after brainwash and plastic surgery she got in ME3 I just lost my interest in that character completely. Also, too many romances just been added for no reason, maybe they even been forced because fans demand them.
I really like that part of their games, but it is not essential for me.
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