BioWare has had some amazing bugs in their games no matter what engine they used, long before they got to using Frostbite. And some of those bugs look like the actual thought behind the code was flawed, not the code itself, let alone the engine. Some examples:
BG2: the timers of Jaheira's romance where sometimes based on time passed in the game world and sometimes on real time. It should be clear before implementation that this would very likely lead to trouble. It was fixed by a fan mod that BioWare eventually integrated into their game.
ME3MP (PC): the AI's accurracy versus moving targets was based on the host's frame rate, which BioWare's apparently console-centric developers had assumed to be always 30 FPS. This "30 FPS hardcoded" school of thought would later return in DAI's cut scenes on PC.
DAI: the banter bug. BioWare capitulated to it and added manually activated banter to Trespasser. Oh, and that key bug in MP that took a while because everyone was on vacation.
MEAMP: Single player save games affected multiplayer difficulty in some way, I forgot the details. It was fixed fairly quickly.
Anthem: Weapons of a certain type could be generated with random bonuses for weapons of another type, like a pistol with a bonus to sniper damage.
I think it's quite unfair to single out Frostbite like that. Many of their "greatest hits" don't seem to be engine specific.
ME3MP (PC): the AI's accurracy versus moving targets was based on the host's frame rate, which BioWare's apparently console-centric developers had assumed to be always 30 FPS. This "30 FPS hardcoded" school of thought would later return in DAI's cut scenes on PC.
It's kinda amazing how FPS can have an input on AI and balance coding. I remember when Destiny 2's Forsaken DLC dropped, and the Raid exotic (One Thousand Voices) would do more damage if the FPS was higher.
DAI: the banter bug. BioWare capitulated to it and added manually activated banter to Trespasser. Oh, and that key bug in MP that took a while because everyone was on vacation.
I still remember the vast salt field that accumulated in the Official Forums to this day.
EDIT: Back on subject: I think the prevailing problems with the engine largely had to do with BioWare needing to make all the assets to support an open-world RPG from scratch, in an engine that wasn't built for such a thing. In some ways, they're running blind in terms of how effective - and optimized - certain programmed elements will function. It also seems that, based on developer comments, basic operations that someone would like to employ in Frostbite takes significantly longer than other competitors in the game engine department. These same operations would also be more prone to failure.
I don't think there's anything wrong with saying no engine comes without flaws, or that developers simply didn't take the effort in squashing certain bugs; Unreal has its own fair share of issues. There's also the notion of bad developmental direction/design as well. Such statements can also exist with the idea that Frostbite, by and large, posed as a significant enough impediment to BioWare's game development, and likely needed to be altered to better serve the RPG genre before being brought into play.
The problem I have with the whole Frostbite discussion that has started to happen is that its being done by online people without any evidence besides pointing out problems and then assuming its Frostbite. Followed by looking at something from another developer using another game engine and then proclamations on how BioWare could have used that game engine not had any problems with their games. Any game engine for BioWare to use was going to require a lot of modifications to work and I don't see how Frostbite was going to require any more work for BioWare then Unreal or another game engine. People just seem to think that making a RPG style game is automatically more different then any other game out there, but if you look at the core functions I don't think its really that much more difficult then Battlefield in how they make shooter style games now. I would like to know if looking at the base functionality where the big differences are. Open world I don't think is that much different then the the world for a FPS on an open space, combat is pretty close to the same, powers can be a modified combat system which is more about more animations then functionality for its still press a button for an offense ability to happen, the big difference for what BioWare offers compared to Battlefield is the companion system which is something that would need to be developed from the ground up for not many studios offer party-based options in their games.
Due to some of the reporting from Kotaku it sounds like the one thing Frostbite was not developed for was procedural generate content which they couldn't get to work. Just as much as people want to point to other studios using other game engines to try and show that Frostbite is the problem they seem to want to ignore that we could point to other EA studios using Frostbite and not having their games have the same problems as BioWare.
The problem I have with the whole Frostbite discussion that has started to happen is that its being done by online people without any evidence besides pointing out problems and then assuming its Frostbite. Followed by looking at something from another developer using another game engine and then proclamations on how BioWare could have used that game engine not had any problems with their games. Any game engine for BioWare to use was going to require a lot of modifications to work and I don't see how Frostbite was going to require any more work for BioWare then Unreal or another game engine. People just seem to think that making a RPG style game is automatically more different then any other game out there, but if you look at the core functions I don't think its really that much more difficult then Battlefield in how they make shooter style games now. I would like to know if looking at the base functionality where the big differences are. Open world I don't think is that much different then the the world for a FPS on an open space, combat is pretty close to the same, powers can be a modified combat system which is more about more animations then functionality for its still press a button for an offense ability to happen, the big difference for what BioWare offers compared to Battlefield is the companion system which is something that would need to be developed from the ground up for not many studios offer party-based options in their games.
Due to some of the reporting from Kotaku it sounds like the one thing Frostbite was not developed for was procedural generate content which they couldn't get to work. Just as much as people want to point to other studios using other game engines to try and show that Frostbite is the problem they seem to want to ignore that we could point to other EA studios using Frostbite and not having their games have the same problems as BioWare.
The only "evidence" I can think of is Manveer Heir (if I didn't misspell his name, I'm gonna be truly shocked) said once that Frosbite was horrible to work on compared to UE4. Another core thing is inventory management and storage, that apparently was no easy task (?) since it came later on for Inquisition, even though storage was an obvious feature to have, Mike Gamble implied back then in a tweet that it wasn't easier to implement. Even though in games like BF there's a pseudo inventory, is not the one you get in an RPG. I do agree though, it's not like Frosbite developed for shooters is infinitely different than having the engine run an RPG. At the end of the day you still have maps, camera angles can be worked on (and BF games have free camera for spectator already, so tac camera shouldn't have been such a bitch imo, like it is in Inquisition), and most is still the same. Unlike racing games or sport games I suppose on a lesser degree.
Me personally, if I worked on Unreal [insert version here] before, I think the natural thing to do would be to go to the newer version, not switching to another brand. Unless I hated Unreal from the get go and wanted nothing to do with it ever again. Of course this was already discussed before, whether or not EA forced Frosbite, budget and what have you. That's just my personal taking.
But I think at the end of the day all the issues just came with the fact that nobody thought (or wanted) they should have taken the time to first develop the engine and tools to do what they wanted to do and then start working on the game/s. Whatever engine you have if you spend the time on it, technically you could use it for anything you want assuming your people can do it. Whether or not you want it, you can, or it's worth it, it's a different discussion.
RIP old BioWare - 1995-2016. I used to be a fan, now I'm just toxic.
The problem I have with the whole Frostbite discussion that has started to happen is that its being done by online people without any evidence besides pointing out problems and then assuming its Frostbite. Followed by looking at something from another developer using another game engine and then proclamations on how BioWare could have used that game engine not had any problems with their games. Any game engine for BioWare to use was going to require a lot of modifications to work and I don't see how Frostbite was going to require any more work for BioWare then Unreal or another game engine. People just seem to think that making a RPG style game is automatically more different then any other game out there, but if you look at the core functions I don't think its really that much more difficult then Battlefield in how they make shooter style games now. I would like to know if looking at the base functionality where the big differences are. Open world I don't think is that much different then the the world for a FPS on an open space, combat is pretty close to the same, powers can be a modified combat system which is more about more animations then functionality for its still press a button for an offense ability to happen, the big difference for what BioWare offers compared to Battlefield is the companion system which is something that would need to be developed from the ground up for not many studios offer party-based options in their games.
Due to some of the reporting from Kotaku it sounds like the one thing Frostbite was not developed for was procedural generate content which they couldn't get to work. Just as much as people want to point to other studios using other game engines to try and show that Frostbite is the problem they seem to want to ignore that we could point to other EA studios using Frostbite and not having their games have the same problems as BioWare.
The only "evidence" I can think of is Manveer Heir (if I didn't misspell his name, I'm gonna be truly shocked) said once that Frosbite was horrible to work on compared to UE4. Another core thing is inventory management and storage, that apparently was no easy task (?) since it came later on for Inquisition, even though storage was an obvious feature to have, Mike Gamble implied back then in a tweet that it wasn't easier to implement. Even though in games like BF there's a pseudo inventory, is not the one you get in an RPG. I do agree though, it's not like Frosbite developed for shooters is infinitely different than having the engine run an RPG. At the end of the day you still have maps, camera angles can be worked on (and BF games have free camera for spectator already, so tac camera shouldn't have been such a bitch imo, like it is in Inquisition), and most is still the same. Unlike racing games or sport games I suppose on a lesser degree.
Me personally, if I worked on Unreal [insert version here] before, I think the natural thing to do would be to go to the newer version, not switching to another brand. Unless I hated Unreal from the get go and wanted nothing to do with it ever again. Of course this was already discussed before, whether or not EA forced Frosbite, budget and what have you. That's just my personal taking.
But I think at the end of the day all the issues just came with the fact that nobody thought (or wanted) they should have taken the time to first develop the engine and tools to do what they wanted to do and then start working on the game/s. Whatever engine you have if you spend the time on it, technically you could use it for anything you want assuming your people can do it. Whether or not you want it, you can, or it's worth it, it's a different discussion.
I think that is a fair assessment that there wasn't enough time to fully develop the tools, but I do wonder if there was at least a trickle down effect for them since game development regardless of game there seems to be a lot more crossover from other genres. Such as the story mode that has been added to FIFA and Madden.
I never paid attention to what Manveer Heir said and be shocked you spelled it correctly. What I read it felt like he was soliciting for people to fund his new studio by giving money for his crowdfunding games at the beginning and I didn't feel like sticking for the entire infomercial. Everything I did read about what he said felt like giving the internet what they wanted so he wasn't the racist people proclaimed him to be.
The only "evidence" I can think of is Manveer Heir (if I didn't misspell his name, I'm gonna be truly shocked) said once that Frosbite was horrible to work on compared to UE4. Another core thing is inventory management and storage, that apparently was no easy task (?) since it came later on for Inquisition, even though storage was an obvious feature to have, Mike Gamble implied back then in a tweet that it wasn't easier to implement. Even though in games like BF there's a pseudo inventory, is not the one you get in an RPG. I do agree though, it's not like Frosbite developed for shooters is infinitely different than having the engine run an RPG. At the end of the day you still have maps, camera angles can be worked on (and BF games have free camera for spectator already, so tac camera shouldn't have been such a bitch imo, like it is in Inquisition), and most is still the same. Unlike racing games or sport games I suppose on a lesser degree.
Me personally, if I worked on Unreal [insert version here] before, I think the natural thing to do would be to go to the newer version, not switching to another brand. Unless I hated Unreal from the get go and wanted nothing to do with it ever again. Of course this was already discussed before, whether or not EA forced Frosbite, budget and what have you. That's just my personal taking.
But I think at the end of the day all the issues just came with the fact that nobody thought (or wanted) they should have taken the time to first develop the engine and tools to do what they wanted to do and then start working on the game/s. Whatever engine you have if you spend the time on it, technically you could use it for anything you want assuming your people can do it. Whether or not you want it, you can, or it's worth it, it's a different discussion.
I think that is a fair assessment that there wasn't enough time to fully develop the tools, but I do wonder if there was at least a trickle down effect for them since game development regardless of game there seems to be a lot more crossover from other genres. Such as the story mode that has been added to FIFA and Madden.
I never paid attention to what Manveer Heir said and be shocked you spelled it correctly. What I read it felt like he was soliciting for people to fund his new studio by giving money for his crowdfunding games at the beginning and I didn't feel like sticking for the entire infomercial. Everything I did read about what he said felt like giving the internet what they wanted so he wasn't the racist people proclaimed him to be.
Did people proclaim he was racist ? I think he did it, according to the definition of proclaim
a: to declare publicly, typically insistently, proudly, or defiantly and in either speech or writing b: to give outward indication of
I think that is a fair assessment that there wasn't enough time to fully develop the tools, but I do wonder if there was at least a trickle down effect for them since game development regardless of game there seems to be a lot more crossover from other genres. Such as the story mode that has been added to FIFA and Madden.
I never paid attention to what Manveer Heir said and be shocked you spelled it correctly. What I read it felt like he was soliciting for people to fund his new studio by giving money for his crowdfunding games at the beginning and I didn't feel like sticking for the entire infomercial. Everything I did read about what he said felt like giving the internet what they wanted so he wasn't the racist people proclaimed him to be.
Did people proclaim he was racist ? I think he did it, according to the definition of proclaim
a: to declare publicly, typically insistently, proudly, or defiantly and in either speech or writing b: to give outward indication of
I guess I just worded that badly, for I was meaning he was trying to get people to change their minds about him because he was giving the internet what they believed about EA to try and improve his reputation. I don't think he was successful for I haven't really heard of him since that interview. Some of his comments just left me with a "that doesn't sound true" for something like the $15,000 on Andromeda's MP just seems like it would be more then enough to have unlocked everything multiple times over and also how did he gain access to that information in the first place.
Did people proclaim he was racist ? I think he did it, according to the definition of proclaim
a: to declare publicly, typically insistently, proudly, or defiantly and in either speech or writing b: to give outward indication of
I guess I just worded that badly, for I was meaning he was trying to get people to change their minds about him because he was giving the internet what they believed about EA to try and improve his reputation. I don't think he was successful for I haven't really heard of him since that interview. Some of his comments just left me with a "that doesn't sound true" for something like the $15,000 on Andromeda's MP just seems like it would be more then enough to have unlocked everything multiple times over and also how did he gain access to that information in the first place.
He was talking about ME3MP (not Andromeda) where some people were dropping huge amounts of money.
I guess I just worded that badly, for I was meaning he was trying to get people to change their minds about him because he was giving the internet what they believed about EA to try and improve his reputation. I don't think he was successful for I haven't really heard of him since that interview. Some of his comments just left me with a "that doesn't sound true" for something like the $15,000 on Andromeda's MP just seems like it would be more then enough to have unlocked everything multiple times over and also how did he gain access to that information in the first place.
He was talking about ME3MP (not Andromeda) where some people were dropping huge amounts of money.
Yep. Nothing he said was very surprising and it all made sense.
Game companies target whales because whales spend lots of money. But whales aren't good enough any more, it's all about superwhales now.
I guess I just worded that badly, for I was meaning he was trying to get people to change their minds about him because he was giving the internet what they believed about EA to try and improve his reputation. I don't think he was successful for I haven't really heard of him since that interview. Some of his comments just left me with a "that doesn't sound true" for something like the $15,000 on Andromeda's MP just seems like it would be more then enough to have unlocked everything multiple times over and also how did he gain access to that information in the first place.
He was talking about ME3MP (not Andromeda) where some people were dropping huge amounts of money.
That makes even less sense to me now for at least by my opinion of the game there less things to purchase and it doesn't answer the question of where he got that information for unless I am mistaken it wasn't in a leadership role. It still feels like to me that he was giving people what they wanted to hear for nobody else has confirmed how much people were spending in ME3MP and you would think if he was talking about it that openly it would have been leaked to someone like Jason Schreier.
Now just to be clear I really don't know what to make of what he said for it doesn't make sense to me and there hasn't been anything else to confirm or disprove what he said since.
He was talking about ME3MP (not Andromeda) where some people were dropping huge amounts of money.
That makes even less sense to me now for at least by my opinion of the game there less things to purchase and it doesn't answer the question of where he got that information
He spent many years at Bioware Montreal and worked on the multiplayer version of ME3 before heading over to Andromeda.
And he said he saw someone drop $15,000 on multiplayer cards.
Mass Effect 3’s multiplayer mode employs a trading card-style unlock system, where you purchase “packs” of mystery items that include one-time-use boosts, new weapons, new characters, and new appearance customization options (don’t get excited — they’re mainly just different colors).
Had I not stolen the $100 out of GamesBeat editor-in-chief Dan Hsu’s wallet, I’d be feeling pretty gypped right now. After 50 packs of the best Mass Effect 3 multiplayer has to offer, I still don’t have a single level 10 weapon, I don’t even have all of the available characters (which there aren’t that many to begin with), and I didn’t pick up any of my favorite weapons from the campaign.
I’m sure there will be those who purchase just a couple packs and get some awesome stuff, while others will go on to have worse luck than I did. That’s the problem with gambling. But according to our little test, the odds are stacked against you in Mass Effect 3.
The problem with lootbox style systems, $100 can net you... something or pretty much nothing at all.
And considering $100 netted these guys almost nothing, why wouldn't it be unfeasible that a rich person, with more money than they can spend and even worse luck, did that 150 times?
That makes even less sense to me now for at least by my opinion of the game there less things to purchase and it doesn't answer the question of where he got that information
He spent many years at Bioware Montreal and worked on the multiplayer version of ME3 before heading over to Andromeda.
And he said he saw someone drop $15,000 on multiplayer cards.
Mass Effect 3’s multiplayer mode employs a trading card-style unlock system, where you purchase “packs” of mystery items that include one-time-use boosts, new weapons, new characters, and new appearance customization options (don’t get excited — they’re mainly just different colors).
I know he worked there, but it doesn't automatically mean he has access to that type of information. You don't see any other developer from a company going out and spreading that type of information to the public good terms or not. Getting to that specific level of detail can become a privacy concern because you are going down to the individual unless someone there needed to be fired for sharing information they shouldn't have. My experiences with user information is that it becomes need to know and unless you need to know specifics like that you don't get the information you get general information such as the averages or what boxes users bought overall. Not that one person spent that much money on products. Like I said I don't know how get got that information and that makes me question it based on my experiences in the work force.
He spent many years at Bioware Montreal and worked on the multiplayer version of ME3 before heading over to Andromeda.
And he said he saw someone drop $15,000 on multiplayer cards.
Mass Effect 3’s multiplayer mode employs a trading card-style unlock system, where you purchase “packs” of mystery items that include one-time-use boosts, new weapons, new characters, and new appearance customization options (don’t get excited — they’re mainly just different colors).
I know he worked there, but it doesn't automatically mean he has access to that type of information. You don't see any other developer from a company going out and spreading that type of information to the public good terms or not. Getting to that specific level of detail can become a privacy concern because you are going down to the individual unless someone there needed to be fired for sharing information they shouldn't have. My experiences with user information is that it becomes need to know and unless you need to know specifics like that you don't get the information you get general information such as the averages or what boxes users bought overall. Not that one person spent that much money on products. Like I said I don't know how get got that information and that makes me question it based on my experiences in the work force.
Wouldn't a person's purchase history be available on their account? I very much doubt you'd need to be in a leadership position to know that sort of information.
Developers don't tend to burn bridges if they want to continue working in that industry, no. There's a couple of exceptions but otherwise devs tend to keep their heads down and noses to the grindstone. Which is why it took an incredibly long time for burnout cases (from all companies) to be made public knowledge.
No names were leaked so I don't think privacy concerns were breached.
I know he worked there, but it doesn't automatically mean he has access to that type of information. You don't see any other developer from a company going out and spreading that type of information to the public good terms or not. Getting to that specific level of detail can become a privacy concern because you are going down to the individual unless someone there needed to be fired for sharing information they shouldn't have. My experiences with user information is that it becomes need to know and unless you need to know specifics like that you don't get the information you get general information such as the averages or what boxes users bought overall. Not that one person spent that much money on products. Like I said I don't know how get got that information and that makes me question it based on my experiences in the work force.
Wouldn't a person's purchase history be available on their account? I very much doubt you'd need to be in a leadership position to know that sort of information.
Developers don't tend to burn bridges if they want to continue working in that industry, no. There's a couple of exceptions but otherwise devs tend to keep their heads down and noses to the grindstone. Which is why it took an incredibly long time for burnout cases (from all companies) to be made public knowledge.
No names were leaked so I don't think privacy concerns were breached.
Speaking only from my personal experience you need the user's authorization to access their account information you don't go browsing that information. You will have access to look it up, but the contracts I have signed its a breach of the customer's expectation of privacy to access their information when they are not aware of it. When I was in college I worked at an ISP call center and there were several firing because there were people that looking up the information on celebrities that used their services.
The thing is talking about how it impacted you is one thing just like when talking basic telemetrics of player information. The case of burnout those employees are talking about how the job conditions are about you. This case to me is a problem because he was talking about users and their information and purchase habits which goes against everything I have experienced with keeping user information private.
Privacy is more they public release of player information, its access to information without a person's consent. Its why the EU has the laws they have in place now to make it mandatory for companies to show you what they have done with your information, what information they have on you, and you have the right to tell them to delete it. For going to look at player information that is stored on their accounts is also things like complete home addresses, purchasing habits, credit card information, and other information that can be used to identify you or in some cases potentially cause identification theft such as the personal questions for account restoration.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Star Wars Fallen Order looks incredible so I would be absolutely fine with a Dragon Age game that was made with Unreal 4. BioWare should be free to use whatever engine they feel allows them to create content for their games at a pace and ease that also allows them to polish that content and make it better (instead of all the problems we've all read about with Frostbite).
I'm not sure Fallen Order makes the best case for U4.
Granted, indoors, and scenes with a lot of metal or stone (which are easier to deal with) it does a great job with, the main character models looked good, and it had some nice particle fx. But outdoors, and especially areas with vegetation, were not that great. Heavy-handed distance fog, lower res textures and low poly environments were pretty apparent, and I ran the game maxed out on the PC. Now, that could be just FO's implementation, but to compare, here's Battlefront II.
Yeah I have to agree I think i tdepensd on what you'er looking t odo really when it comes to things like people and faces I think Unreal probably does a better job also for more closed environments like what we were exploring throughout Shepards trilogy then yes Unreal probably has the advantyag ebut if you want a game that has beautiful open world style environments then Frostbite is probably the way to go. Frostbite has always srtuggled a little bit with faces an dfacial animations compared with other engines. Though I do think they have improved it a little bit it's still not perfect. I do thin kthat Frostbite's poen world environments aer gorgeous. Fo rexample th eintro to Skyhold in DAI still blows m eawa ywithhow beautiful it is. Also I'm still amazed a thow beautiful places like the Hinterlands look as well. Same with MEA too in th ecutscenes when we firs tarrive on planets like Havarl, Elaaden even Habitat 7 were really well done. Even NFS Heat has some really nice looking environments fo ryou to race in. Both in the city and in the countryside.
I think if you're looking moe rfor a more balanced engine then perhaps the one Square Enix have used for the Tomb Raider reboot games as again those games aer probably some of the best all round games I've seen as it does both pretty well. As it has some pretty environments and some pretty decent facial animations as well
But I think for the most par tBiowaer have managed OK with the Frostbite engine I think it's the mismanagement of the projects themselves that hav ebeen the problem rather than the engine they're using.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The only "evidence" I can think of is Manveer Heir (if I didn't misspell his name, I'm gonna be truly shocked) said once that Frosbite was horrible to work on compared to UE4. Another core thing is inventory management and storage, that apparently was no easy task (?) since it came later on for Inquisition, even though storage was an obvious feature to have, Mike Gamble implied back then in a tweet that it wasn't easier to implement. Even though in games like BF there's a pseudo inventory, is not the one you get in an RPG. I do agree though, it's not like Frosbite developed for shooters is infinitely different than having the engine run an RPG. At the end of the day you still have maps, camera angles can be worked on (and BF games have free camera for spectator already, so tac camera shouldn't have been such a bitch imo, like it is in Inquisition), and most is still the same. Unlike racing games or sport games I suppose on a lesser degree.
Me personally, if I worked on Unreal [insert version here] before, I think the natural thing to do would be to go to the newer version, not switching to another brand. Unless I hated Unreal from the get go and wanted nothing to do with it ever again. Of course this was already discussed before, whether or not EA forced Frosbite, budget and what have you. That's just my personal taking.
But I think at the end of the day all the issues just came with the fact that nobody thought (or wanted) they should have taken the time to first develop the engine and tools to do what they wanted to do and then start working on the game/s. Whatever engine you have if you spend the time on it, technically you could use it for anything you want assuming your people can do it. Whether or not you want it, you can, or it's worth it, it's a different discussion.
I think that is a fair assessment that there wasn't enough time to fully develop the tools, but I do wonder if there was at least a trickle down effect for them since game development regardless of game there seems to be a lot more crossover from other genres. Such as the story mode that has been added to FIFA and Madden.
I never paid attention to what Manveer Heir said and be shocked you spelled it correctly. What I read it felt like he was soliciting for people to fund his new studio by giving money for his crowdfunding games at the beginning and I didn't feel like sticking for the entire infomercial. Everything I did read about what he said felt like giving the internet what they wanted so he wasn't the racist people proclaimed him to be.
WellI do know that Bioware did help build the mechanics Fifa used in the Journey's mechanics. (The Alex Hunter story mode)
The problem I have with the whole Frostbite discussion that has started to happen is that its being done by online people without any evidence besides pointing out problems and then assuming its Frostbite. Followed by looking at something from another developer using another game engine and then proclamations on how BioWare could have used that game engine not had any problems with their games. Any game engine for BioWare to use was going to require a lot of modifications to work and I don't see how Frostbite was going to require any more work for BioWare then Unreal or another game engine. People just seem to think that making a RPG style game is automatically more different then any other game out there, but if you look at the core functions I don't think its really that much more difficult then Battlefield in how they make shooter style games now. I would like to know if looking at the base functionality where the big differences are. Open world I don't think is that much different then the the world for a FPS on an open space, combat is pretty close to the same, powers can be a modified combat system which is more about more animations then functionality for its still press a button for an offense ability to happen, the big difference for what BioWare offers compared to Battlefield is the companion system which is something that would need to be developed from the ground up for not many studios offer party-based options in their games.
Due to some of the reporting from Kotaku it sounds like the one thing Frostbite was not developed for was procedural generate content which they couldn't get to work. Just as much as people want to point to other studios using other game engines to try and show that Frostbite is the problem they seem to want to ignore that we could point to other EA studios using Frostbite and not having their games have the same problems as BioWare.
The only "evidence" I can think of is Manveer Heir (if I didn't misspell his name, I'm gonna be truly shocked) said once that Frosbite was horrible to work on compared to UE4. Another core thing is inventory management and storage, that apparently was no easy task (?) since it came later on for Inquisition, even though storage was an obvious feature to have, Mike Gamble implied back then in a tweet that it wasn't easier to implement. Even though in games like BF there's a pseudo inventory, is not the one you get in an RPG. I do agree though, it's not like Frosbite developed for shooters is infinitely different than having the engine run an RPG. At the end of the day you still have maps, camera angles can be worked on (and BF games have free camera for spectator already, so tac camera shouldn't have been such a bitch imo, like it is in Inquisition), and most is still the same. Unlike racing games or sport games I suppose on a lesser degree.
Me personally, if I worked on Unreal [insert version here] before, I think the natural thing to do would be to go to the newer version, not switching to another brand. Unless I hated Unreal from the get go and wanted nothing to do with it ever again. Of course this was already discussed before, whether or not EA forced Frosbite, budget and what have you. That's just my personal taking.
But I think at the end of the day all the issues just came with the fact that nobody thought (or wanted) they should have taken the time to first develop the engine and tools to do what they wanted to do and then start working on the game/s. Whatever engine you have if you spend the time on it, technically you could use it for anything you want assuming your people can do it. Whether or not you want it, you can, or it's worth it, it's a different discussion.
IIRC the whole Mass Effect trilogy was made with Unreal Engine 3, it's been a while since UE4 has been released and games made with it look good (for instance Jedi: Fallen Order). What's more important is that Bioware and other studios are able to make really good games in pretty short time periods when using UE and they can't do that when using Frostbite. We know it's not only because of the engine they're using, but we also know it has been an important factor.
Agreed. And if only they've took their time with ME3, it would be the best game there is.
I'm genuinely baffled why EA went all in to make all of their studios to use Frostbite, yet refuse to provide proper support to build dev tools for various game genres.
They should have developed their own engine. They have the resources to do so.
Öööö.... do you know how much it takes time to do so? No, neither do I, but it seems to take quite a lot of time to do a new engine from a scratch especially these days when end users want everything & the kitchen sink as flashy shiny shine effects. Not a good idea anymore I'm afraid for the size the games are.
[ LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI ] Waiting for ME5 - Look's like sometime in 2186, everything went to hell. We got out just ahead of it! MEA & ME1 (>>>> 3 > 2) -- DAI > DAO > DA2 -- 3500h+ & maxed out all 02/2020 in MEAMP, APEX 137001+, DAIMP (555/723/200), ANTHEM, SW BF II - Drinking tears of MP lamers since DooM & Quake in 90's softknees.bandcamp.com/ Go go go! I will destroy you! Watch out! Enemies everywhere! You must die!
I'm genuinely baffled why EA went all in to make all of their studios to use Frostbite, yet refuse to provide proper support to build dev tools for various game genres.
So many issues would have been avoided.
If you look beyond BioWare I haven't seen the whining about Frostbite hurting any other game under the EA umbrella and there have been plenty. So this to me seems to be a BioWare issue so I think the blame is misplaced onto EA just because they are the publisher and nobody seems to want to make BioWare responsible for their own actions or inaction. We also know that EA did provide support for they have had people from Dice travelling to the different studios to help them with their Frostbite development, but with BioWare and Anthem it was reported they moved on before release because they were scheduled already to help get FIFA ready.
They should have developed their own engine. They have the resources to do so.
Do they? Building a game engine is a lot more work then developing tools and modules for a pre-existing one. Not to mention the dedicated people to get one to work and keep it updated and maintained. Combined that with what has been visible on Frostbite do you really think it would have turned out well?
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Newsflash for you: even the Internet's favorite gaming darling CDPR has and probably still do have some major bugs in all 3 Witcher games and here is another newsflash for you: there will be major bugs in Cyberpunk 2077.
Honestly I've had fewer major bugs with BioWare than with most other AAA developers/publishers.
M etoo tbh aside from MEA most of the games I've played from Biowaer have been pretty bug free. There is one bug that annoys me in the ME trilogy in that sometimes my Shepard kind of gets stuck in the air and can't move and I have t orelod and another in DAI wher when sometimes I click on an ability the Inquisitor doesn't move to carry that ability out but other than that there's never been anything I could say is too gamebreaking. End of the day I tend to ignore them because I enjoy the games in general too much.
The mid-air jump while talking bug in DAI is the most annoying one I can think of and it's also one I know how to get out of or fix too finish the dialogue and hit jump button again to get out of it.
My personal mottoes:
1) I would rather be hated for being honest than being loved as a liar.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
They should have developed their own engine. They have the resources to do so.
Do they? Building a game engine is a lot more work then developing tools and modules for a pre-existing one. Not to mention the dedicated people to get one to work and keep it updated and maintained. Combined that with what has been visible on Frostbite do you really think it would have turned out well?
EA owns DICE who made the Frostbite engine, so EA owns the Frostbite engine and wants all their studios to use it because they don't have to pay license fees to other companies for using their engines. So they "encourage" all of their studios like BioWare to use the Frostbite engine so it can be shown to be flexible, easy-to-use, and so on so one day EA can make the Frostbite engine easy to use they can also turn around and license the Frostbite engine to other companies.
My personal mottoes:
1) I would rather be hated for being honest than being loved as a liar.