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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 25, 2020 2:29:24 GMT
I still think they could just do something like the Black Ark Theory, where the ODSY Drive was created by the Mysterious Benefactor through reverse engineering a Reaper or Collector drive since those have the same abilities. As for where and how they got it, well that just adds to the mystery of them that we'll slowly unravel.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 2:36:46 GMT
It is presumed that given the Andromeda Initiative was founded and funded by humans, they were the driving force behind the ODSY drive. Since without that, the entire project was a colossal waste of time. Clearly Jien Garson had an idea as to how to get to Andromeda from the start. And comparing the Tantalus to the ODSY is like comparing a paper boat to a cruise ship. Yeah the Tantalus drive can run longer than most other drive cores, but the ODSY is the next best thing to a perpetual motion machine. It renders the ENTIRE Reaper trap completely irrelevant. And in a billion years or more of harvests, however many thousands, perhaps millions of sapient species that have arisen in all those eons, it's only NOW that such a drive is developed? Oh, and those Prothean scientists didn't develop the mini-relay in isolation, the Protheans had already managed to reverse-engineer the relays and were in the process of building their first prototype when the invasion came. in other words, the relay was already there. Yep - IT IS PRESUMED... which means it could be absolutely way off base. It was the Geth who developed the scanning technology that enabled the AI to target Heleus and gave Jien Garson the idea to go there. False. Initially the AI was using asari astronomical surveys and using predictive models to determine where viable worlds could be found. The geth scans came later, where they discovered the Heleus Cluster[/div]
False. Listen to Vigil's lore dump
"Before the Reapers attacked, we Protheans were on the cusp of unlocking the mysteries behind mass relay technology. Ilos was a top-secret facility Here, researchers worked to create a small-scale version of a mass relay. One that linked directly to the Citadel, the hub of the relay network."
In a galaxy where species fight over worlds to settle, you'd think an ODSY drive would be a bit more popular if it was that simple...
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 25, 2020 2:44:49 GMT
Who says it wasn't popular?
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 5:17:21 GMT
Who says it wasn't popular? You mean besides the complete lack of any mention of this space magic prior to MEA?
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Post by shermos on Jan 25, 2020 14:40:37 GMT
Is RGB still a thing in the Milky Way? If so, then f*ck that noise.
Not really. I'm suggesting to let time make it irrelevant. Only Shepard was present for the star child talk on the Citadel and he either died or was so badly injured he likely coundn't recall much. Even people who could still be alive 600 years later to give a personal account like Liara and Grunt wouldn't know much. The Reapers were stopped. There needn't be much more explanation than that.
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Post by shermos on Jan 25, 2020 15:40:58 GMT
I still think they could just do something like the Black Ark Theory, where the ODSY Drive was created by the Mysterious Benefactor through reverse engineering a Reaper or Collector drive since those have the same abilities. As for where and how they got it, well that just adds to the mystery of them that we'll slowly unravel.
I agree with Iakus that the ODSY Drive breaks the established lore in a big way, but I could live with an explanation like this if it is part of an ME: Next plot. Finding out more about this "Benefactor" is one of the most interesting plot threads from MEA imo. More interesting to me than the main plot actually.
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Post by traks on Jan 25, 2020 15:42:37 GMT
Both galaxies of course should be connected via Mass Relays in the future. Otherwise the whole foundation of the Andromeda Initiative doesn't make sense. Why go to Andromeda to discover the secrets of another galaxy if you don't want to bring your discoveries back to the Milky Way?
But for that to happen eventually, three things have to happen first: the Milky Way side has to find out how to build Mass Relays and in Andromeda we have to find out who the benefactor is and reestablish communication with the MW while also finding a way to contain/defeat the threats of Andromeda (Kett, scourge, Jaardan or who drove them away) to get clearance to build a relay in Andromeda and actually connect both galaxies. Too dangerous otherwise.
So ideally we play through the Andromeda side of things (stuff for probably two more games) before both galaxies are connected in a game.
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Post by shermos on Jan 25, 2020 16:00:14 GMT
Both galaxies of course should be connected via Mass Relays in the future. Otherwise the whole foundation of the Andromeda Initiative doesn't make sense. Why go to Andromeda to discover the secrets of another galaxy if you don't want to bring your discoveries back to the Milky Way? But for that to happen eventually, three things have to happen first: the Milky Way side has to find out how to build Mass Relays and in Andromeda we have to find out who the benefactor is and reestablish communication with the MW while also finding a way to contain/defeat the threats of Andromeda (Kett, scourge, Jaardan or who drove them away) to get clearance to build a relay in Andromeda and actually connect both galaxies. Too dangerous otherwise. So ideally we play through the Andromeda side of things (stuff for probably two more games) before both galaxies are connected in a game.
Back on page one, I wrote a possible outline for a new trilogy which allows for all the problems in Andromeda to be dealt with while also allowing a return to the Milky Way. Game 1 would take place in the Milky Way, but Game 2 would essentially be MEA2 with a bit more bolted onto it. Doing MEA2 very next thing would only further alienate the majority of the gaming community. My suggestion gives Bioware a chance to win people who hated MEA back while still allowing its fans to get a continuation.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 16:28:50 GMT
Is RGB still a thing in the Milky Way? If so, then f*ck that noise.
Not really. I'm suggesting to let time make it irrelevant. Only Shepard was present for the star child talk on the Citadel and he either died or was so badly injured he likely coundn't recall much. Even people who could still be alive 600 years later to give a personal account like Liara and Grunt wouldn't know much. The Reapers were stopped. There needn't be much more explanation than that.
While that's certainly a desirable goal, I don't think it's very realistic. The endings are simply too divergent. And not just the fate of the Reapers. Some endings annihilate whole species. One ending leaves the galaxy in utter ruins. Others change every living being at a genetic level.Even putting centuries, or even millennia between ME3 and another sequel, the divergences should still be apparent, even if the details are lost to time. Which is not to say Bioware won't some day attempt it. I mean, they've introduced cures for death and perpetual motion engines springing fully-formed onto the galactic scene with zero societal impact, so "realistic" is clearly not a high priority.
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Post by traks on Jan 25, 2020 16:29:21 GMT
Both galaxies of course should be connected via Mass Relays in the future. Otherwise the whole foundation of the Andromeda Initiative doesn't make sense. Why go to Andromeda to discover the secrets of another galaxy if you don't want to bring your discoveries back to the Milky Way? But for that to happen eventually, three things have to happen first: the Milky Way side has to find out how to build Mass Relays and in Andromeda we have to find out who the benefactor is and reestablish communication with the MW while also finding a way to contain/defeat the threats of Andromeda (Kett, scourge, Jaardan or who drove them away) to get clearance to build a relay in Andromeda and actually connect both galaxies. Too dangerous otherwise. So ideally we play through the Andromeda side of things (stuff for probably two more games) before both galaxies are connected in a game.
Back on page one, I wrote a possible outline for a new trilogy which allows for all the problems in Andromeda to be dealt with while also allowing a return to the Milky Way. Game 1 would take place in the Milky Way, but Game 2 would essentially be MEA2 with a bit more bolted onto it. Doing MEA2 very next thing would only further alienate the majority of the gaming community. My suggestion gives Bioware a chance to win people who hated MEA back while still allowing its fans to get a continuation.
That is a possible way, but IMO there is no need for that. At least they shouldn't even think of ME fans being divided in groups. That might be the case for some, but focusing on one side or the other doesn't lay the ground for the next game to be the best possible game. BioWare will win fans back, if they write the next Mass Effect game in a serious tone. No goofy humor, no nonsense and lore breaking cut scenes, no groups of misfits. A good and well written story. Has nothing to do with where the game takes place. Because the overall story of ME is in Andromeda right now, the logical choice would be to stay there until it makes sense on that side to reconnect.
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Post by shermos on Jan 25, 2020 17:46:01 GMT
Not really. I'm suggesting to let time make it irrelevant. Only Shepard was present for the star child talk on the Citadel and he either died or was so badly injured he likely coundn't recall much. Even people who could still be alive 600 years later to give a personal account like Liara and Grunt wouldn't know much. The Reapers were stopped. There needn't be much more explanation than that.
While that's certainly a desirable goal, I don't think it's very realistic. The endings are simply too divergent. And not just the fate of the Reapers. Some endings annihilate whole species. One ending leaves the galaxy in utter ruins. Others change every living being at a genetic level.Even putting centuries, or even millennia between ME3 and another sequel, the divergences should still be apparent, even if the details are lost to time. Which is not to say Bioware won't some day attempt it. I mean, they've introduced cures for death and perpetual motion engines springing fully-formed onto the galactic scene with zero societal impact, so "realistic" is clearly not a high priority. Some endings would need to be weeded out as possible canon choices like refuse and low EMS, but Bioware has prior form in this as you say. They chose to ignore the possible ending in ME2 where Shepard dies. They could have replaced Shepard with a new character or had his/her clone be found by his/her companions if they wanted to go to some extra trouble. A lot of things can be written around. For instance, the Catalyst could have been wrong about Destroy killing EDI and the Geth - it only damaged them. The obvious effects of Synthesis could wear off while other timelines develop synthesis type tech like life extension at a slower speed. The Reapers can simply disappear, not wanting to interfere after helping the galaxy to rebuild.
There would be people who consider this a bit of a cop out, but so was MEA. Didn't Dragon Age: Inquisition take choices from previous games and make their consequences broadly converge? I don't recall too many people being upset with that.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 18:34:45 GMT
While that's certainly a desirable goal, I don't think it's very realistic. The endings are simply too divergent. And not just the fate of the Reapers. Some endings annihilate whole species. One ending leaves the galaxy in utter ruins. Others change every living being at a genetic level.Even putting centuries, or even millennia between ME3 and another sequel, the divergences should still be apparent, even if the details are lost to time. Which is not to say Bioware won't some day attempt it. I mean, they've introduced cures for death and perpetual motion engines springing fully-formed onto the galactic scene with zero societal impact, so "realistic" is clearly not a high priority. Some endings would need to be weeded out as possible canon choices like refuse and low EMS, but Bioware has prior form in this as you say. They chose to ignore the possible ending in ME2 where Shepard dies. They could have replaced Shepard with a new character or had his/her clone be found by his/her companions if they wanted to go to some extra trouble. A lot of things can be written around. For instance, the Catalyst could have been wrong about Destroy killing EDI and the Geth - it only damaged them. The obvious effects of Synthesis could wear off while other timelines develop synthesis type tech like life extension at a slower speed. The Reapers can simply disappear, not wanting to interfere after helping the galaxy to rebuild.
There would be people who consider this a bit of a cop out, but so was MEA. Didn't Dragon Age: Inquisition take choices from previous games and make their consequences broadly converge? I don't recall too many people being upset with that.
There's also the issue of whole species possibly dying off (quarians, geth, krogan) And given Synthesis is the "final evolution of life" which Mac Walters seem to looooooove (given the whole SAM thing in MEA) they wouldn't let it lie. And really, converging consequences are destined to be a thing as long as we keep importing choices from one game to the next. The more possibilities for divergence that have to be accounted for, the less writers can do without forcing all choices to be trivialized. They restrict storytelling, and I think it should be done away with. If they return to the Milky Way, they should just pick a canon and run with it. Ideally a canon that's impossible to replicate in ME3. Choices should matter (and matter a lot) in the game where the choice is made. But no further.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 19:01:47 GMT
Yep - IT IS PRESUMED... which means it could be absolutely way off base. It was the Geth who developed the scanning technology that enabled the AI to target Heleus and gave Jien Garson the idea to go there. False. Initially the AI was using asari astronomical surveys and using predictive models to determine where viable worlds could be found. The geth scans came later, where they discovered the Heleus Cluster [/div] False. Listen to Vigil's lore dump
"Before the Reapers attacked, we Protheans were on the cusp of unlocking the mysteries behind mass relay technology. Ilos was a top-secret facility Here, researchers worked to create a small-scale version of a mass relay. One that linked directly to the Citadel, the hub of the relay network."
In a galaxy where species fight over worlds to settle, you'd think an ODSY drive would be a bit more popular if it was that simple... [/quote][/div][/quote]
Not false. 1) I said "to target Heleus" - which is essentially what you've repeated with "where they discovered the Heleus Cluster"
Not false. 2) The facilitiy existed, the mini-relay is not described as having been built prior to the start of the Prothean harvest.
You extend and presume... and imagine falsehoods in statements that are not explicit in the ways you imagine them to be.
The ODSY Drive could just as easily be presumed to have been created by a species other than humans.
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Post by Polka Dot on Jan 25, 2020 19:04:02 GMT
There is nothing in ME1 that says that the relay on Ilos was already there. Again, it's your PRESUMPTION. False. Listen to Vigil's lore dump "Before the Reapers attacked, we Protheans were on the cusp of unlocking the mysteries behind mass relay technology. Ilos was a top-secret facility Here, researchers worked to create a small-scale version of a mass relay. One that linked directly to the Citadel, the hub of the relay network." "on the cusp of unlocking the mysteries" =/= had a working prototype. We've been working on cures for cancer, diabetes, etc. for decades. Why? Semi trucks have twin 150 gallon tanks. Some large pickups, vans, and RVs also have multiple, larger capacity fuel tanks while small passenger vehicles may have fuel capacities in the range of 10-15 gallons. Some vehicles use diesel, most burn gasoline/ethanol, some use natural gas, others are purely electric. People who go off-roading in remote areas often carry additional fuel cans. Large capacity fuel tanks are about as simple as technology gets, so why don't more vehicles have them? The factors that cause species to "fight over worlds to settle" would include habitability (and each species has different needs), resource wealth, proximity to relays. Just because you can get to a world doesn't mean very many people are going to be willing to spend years (or decades or centuries) traveling there. While Shepard operates primarily in the known/settled areas of TMW (all of which have relays nearby), we've no reason to assume there haven't been deep space probes launched to investigate those parts of TMW that have not yet been mapped or that there aren't efforts to do so underway during Shepard's time. The ODSY drives might be very appealing for those purposes, but that is way outside of Shepard's scope and concerns.
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Post by Polka Dot on Jan 25, 2020 19:30:12 GMT
Back on page one, I wrote a possible outline for a new trilogy which allows for all the problems in Andromeda to be dealt with while also allowing a return to the Milky Way. Game 1 would take place in the Milky Way, but Game 2 would essentially be MEA2 with a bit more bolted onto it. Doing MEA2 very next thing would only further alienate the majority of the gaming community. My suggestion gives Bioware a chance to win people who hated MEA back while still allowing its fans to get a continuation.
That is a possible way, but IMO there is no need for that. At least they shouldn't even think of ME fans being divided in groups. I don't know that it'd be wise to think much about existing ME "fans" at all... especially after the beating they took over ME3 and MEA (some of which continues, as this very thread amply demonstrates). The sad reality of game development is that you pretty much have to bring in a new audience with each release, even for existing IPs with already-formed traditions. Only about half of the people who buy a game actually finish it, and only about half of them buy the next entry in a series. So publishers have to rely on continually attracting new people to their franchises. And this particular franchise has an unusually high level of expectations, baggage, and other consumer attachments. I'd also like to point out that BioWare's current strategy has moved into this "live service" paradigm going forward. I mean, they tore apart the work they'd already done on DA4 to make it "live service". Just exactly what that means for DA4 remains to be seen, but if they're doing that to DA, I fully expect they'll do it to ME:Next as well. So - I know better than to attach any expectations to whatever BioWare does next. I'll look at their new offerings and decide on a case-by-case basis whether to go along for the ride.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 19:36:01 GMT
Not false. 1) I said "to target Heleus" - which is essentially what you've repeated with "where they discovered the Heleus Cluster" Not false. 2) The facilitiy existed, the mini-relay is not described as having been built prior to the start of the Prothean harvest. You extend and presume... and imagine falsehoods in statements that are not explicit in the ways you imagine them to be. The ODSY Drive could just as easily be presumed to have been created by a species other than humans.
1) I said: Your responded: Which I refuted: The Heleus Cluster was not the initial target specifically, no, but the plan was ALWAYS to go to Andromeda (thus why it's called the ANDROMEDA Initiative) even before they got hold of the geth scans. Ergo, they had the means to get there BEFORE they knew about Heleus. 2) Then how did the twin relay (ie the relay monument) get from Ilos to the Citadel? Magic? No, the relay prototype was already being built in the days leading up to the Reaper invasion. It doesn't get more obvious than that. 3) And no one bothered to actually USE it until humans appeared on the scene? Humans are special indeed!
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 19:43:35 GMT
False. Listen to Vigil's lore dump "Before the Reapers attacked, we Protheans were on the cusp of unlocking the mysteries behind mass relay technology. Ilos was a top-secret facility Here, researchers worked to create a small-scale version of a mass relay. One that linked directly to the Citadel, the hub of the relay network." "on the cusp of unlocking the mysteries" =/= had a working prototype. We've been working on cures for cancer, diabetes, etc. for decades. The relay monument and the Conduit on Ilos make it pretty clear there was a working prototype. [/quote] The quarians became space vagabonds because they lost their homeworld and the Citadel wouldn't let them settle elsewhere. You think they'd turn down the chance to outfit the Migrant Fleet with ODSY drives and look for a new homeworld, even a temporary one to raise their kids while they took back Rannoch? Humans and batarians were fighting over worlds in the Attican Traverse. The Krogan Rebellions were fought because they wanted/needed more worlds. So yeah, I think the possibility of being able to search the galaxy beyond the relay network for garden worlds would find some receptive years? Hell, they found tens of thousands of people willing to leave everything behind and FLY TO ANOTHER GALAXY! Think of how many people might be willing to go into cryo for a handful of months/years to settle a world in the Milky Way!
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Post by Polka Dot on Jan 25, 2020 20:48:13 GMT
"on the cusp of unlocking the mysteries" =/= had a working prototype. We've been working on cures for cancer, diabetes, etc. for decades. The relay monument and the Conduit on Ilos make it pretty clear there was a working prototype. When Shepard arrived, yes. But their existence in Shepard's time tells you nothing about when the conduit was developed. For all we know, the Citadel "monument" may be a permanent structure placed by the reapers when the Citadel was built. As near as I can tell, this argument is about when the conduit was completed - and I posit we do not know whether it was finished before or after the reaper invasion during the prothean cycle. We do know some of the scientists used it to transport themselves to the Citadel to re-program the keepers; that may have been its maiden voyage. I'm not keen to make any assumptions about what the quarians would or would not elect to do. They were constantly scrounging for salvage, trying to keep their ancient fleet operable. They also purchased fuel from suppliers in Citadel space. For an entire species - especially one so immuno-compromised as the quarians - to head off into the unknown doesn't sound especially smart to me. Without geth assistance, they expect it to take decades before they'll be able to lose the suits on Rannoch. Of course, there's also no indication of whether or how they would have known anything about the Ai's research and developments. Uh-huh. Part of Citadel space, known and mapped, with nearby relays. The krogan are unique in the way their numbers explode and they destroy habitable planets. None of the other species have such burgeoning populations, and they don't destroy the worlds they occupy. The krogan rebellions were fought because they started invading worlds already inhabited by other species. Note that there were already some inhabited worlds (like the Terminus systems) not considered part of Citadel space. Anything Shepard did there was outside of Council interest/jurisdiction. As I've suggested before, there may have been some probes underway to investigate and map further reaches of the galaxy. Some may have been launched by other species years or decades before Shepard's time and before the development of the ODSY drives. Humans had only been part of the galactic community for ~ 30 years. Even though other species were fully space-faring and occupied the Citadel for millenia before, they'd never stumbled across the Sol system and met the humans before the humans themselves became space-faring - and happened to encounter the turians. All of whom had their own reasons for wanting to go. Also, the Ai was trying to avoid the expected reaper invasion... And... ? Such world needs to be discovered/mapped first. You may have noticed the reaper invasion - and RGB waves from the crucible hit every part of TMW. You'll probably respond, but I don't know whether I will beyond this. It's the same old argument going around in the same old circles that have been going on for years.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2020 21:21:34 GMT
The relay monument and the Conduit on Ilos make it pretty clear there was a working prototype. When Shepard arrived, yes. But their existence in Shepard's time tells you nothing about when the conduit was developed. For all we know, the Citadel "monument" may be a permanent structure placed by the reapers when the Citadel was built. As near as I can tell, this argument is about when the conduit was completed - and I posit we do not know whether it was finished before or after the reaper invasion during the prothean cycle. We do know some of the scientists used it to transport themselves to the Citadel to re-program the keepers; that may have been its maiden voyage. I'm not keen to make any assumptions about what the quarians would or would not elect to do. They were constantly scrounging for salvage, trying to keep their ancient fleet operable. They also purchased fuel from suppliers in Citadel space. For an entire species - especially one so immuno-compromised as the quarians - to head off into the unknown doesn't sound especially smart to me. Without geth assistance, they expect it to take decades before they'll be able to lose the suits on Rannoch. Of course, there's also no indication of whether or how they would have known anything about the Ai's research and developments. Uh-huh. Part of Citadel space, known and mapped, with nearby relays. The krogan are unique in the way their numbers explode and they destroy habitable planets. None of the other species have such burgeoning populations, and they don't destroy the worlds they occupy. The krogan rebellions were fought because they started invading worlds already inhabited by other species. Note that there were already some inhabited worlds (like the Terminus systems) not considered part of Citadel space. Anything Shepard did there was outside of Council interest/jurisdiction. As I've suggested before, there may have been some probes underway to investigate and map further reaches of the galaxy. Some may have been launched by other species years or decades before Shepard's time and before the development of the ODSY drives. Humans had only been part of the galactic community for ~ 30 years. Even though other species were fully space-faring and occupied the Citadel for millenia before, they'd never stumbled across the Sol system and met the humans before the humans themselves became space-faring - and happened to encounter the turians. All of whom had their own reasons for wanting to go. Also, the Ai was trying to avoid the expected reaper invasion... And... ? Such world needs to be discovered/mapped first. You may have noticed the reaper invasion - and RGB waves from the crucible hit every part of TMW. You'll probably respond, but I don't know whether I will beyond this. It's the same old argument going around in the same old circles that have been going on for years. 1) It likely was the maiden voyage. But the Citadel Monument was the other end of the Conduit. Therefore, the relay was either completed or nearly completed at the time of the invasion. 2) The quarians were willing to "strap guns onto their schoolbuses" in an attempt to retake Rannoch. They were desperate enough to try anything. They also tried at least once before to settle on a world in Citadel space, and were kicked off. As to what the quarians knew about the AI: they were the ones who provided the AI with the geth scans of Heleus. They also got an ark of their own, the Kellah Si'yah (though it also carried other races) So the quarians were clearly as involved in the Initiative as the other races 3) And? They wanted worlds to colonize. And garden worlds are comparatively rare. Wouldn't it be awesome if they could go beyond the relay network to find more? 4) Again, and? Doesn't negate the point that people would REALLY like to have more real estate. But the relay network limits them 5) The AI was willing to use charts MILLIONS of years out of date and extrapolate. Even with the geth scans, they were going to be centuries out of date by the time they reached Heleus (part of why they had such a nasty surprise in MEA) You think there aren't others out there willing to risk scans that are years or decades old? 6) And there are no people willing to travel a shorter distance and settle on a new world for their own reasons? Also, most of the AI didn't know about the Reapers. 7) We are finding worlds with telescopes TODAY! You think we wouldn't be checking them out if we could get to them, even if it took a few years? The point isn't "But RGB will hit them anyway"! This is beside the point of ME3's ending. The point is that the ODSY drive SHOULD HAVE caused a sea change in Council space. It should have triggered a massive wave of colonization efforts. Mass migrations from Citadel and the relay network. A freaking Age of Exploration. Not limited to an eccentric billionaire's plan to travel to a nearby galaxy. IF you follow the Expanse books or tv show, the ODSY drive is like the ring gates opening. And Mass Effect is like that happening and almost no on e giving a f*ck.
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Post by melbella on Jan 25, 2020 21:45:40 GMT
If the AI takes the Ilos relay to Andromeda, I see no reason really that it could not be activated there and used to get to the MW Citadel from Andromeda. The only issue possibly stopping it would be the length of the jump... but that little relay is already shown to us to be capable of making longer jumps than any other relay in the Milky Way. It's really not that big a stretch. Of course, it means that whoever leaves Andromeda for the Milky Way can't get back to Andromeda since the mini-relays, we have been told, only work in one direction.
Would it even work now that the Citadel has moved?
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 25, 2020 22:29:00 GMT
Without meaning to get in the way of the dueling WoTs over the ODSY drive, what exactly is the issue supposed to be? Let's say the AI starts licensing the drive as soon as it's out of beta, and a bunch of new MW colonization projects get started at around the same time the AI departs. (Not unreasonable since the AI would certainly need the money. The quarians would probably have to steal or reverse-engineer it.)
What actually would change that we'd notice in ME3? I can't think of a thing. Any new colonies wouldn't show on the map since the SR2 can't get there. None of them would be important, none of them would be out of Reaper reach.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 25, 2020 22:34:28 GMT
If the AI takes the Ilos relay to Andromeda, I see no reason really that it could not be activated there and used to get to the MW Citadel from Andromeda. The only issue possibly stopping it would be the length of the jump... but that little relay is already shown to us to be capable of making longer jumps than any other relay in the Milky Way. It's really not that big a stretch. Of course, it means that whoever leaves Andromeda for the Milky Way can't get back to Andromeda since the mini-relays, we have been told, only work in one direction.
Would it even work now that the Citadel has moved?
I'd think so. It's not like Ilos is fixed in space relative to the Citadel, and the Mu relay works fine despite being way out of position, so a relay has to have some ability to compensate for motion. How much ability is at the discretion of the writers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 23:09:30 GMT
Some endings would need to be weeded out as possible canon choices like refuse and low EMS, but Bioware has prior form in this as you say. They chose to ignore the possible ending in ME2 where Shepard dies. They could have replaced Shepard with a new character or had his/her clone be found by his/her companions if they wanted to go to some extra trouble. A lot of things can be written around. For instance, the Catalyst could have been wrong about Destroy killing EDI and the Geth - it only damaged them. The obvious effects of Synthesis could wear off while other timelines develop synthesis type tech like life extension at a slower speed. The Reapers can simply disappear, not wanting to interfere after helping the galaxy to rebuild.
There would be people who consider this a bit of a cop out, but so was MEA. Didn't Dragon Age: Inquisition take choices from previous games and make their consequences broadly converge? I don't recall too many people being upset with that.
There's also the issue of whole species possibly dying off (quarians, geth, krogan) And given Synthesis is the "final evolution of life" which Mac Walters seem to looooooove (given the whole SAM thing in MEA) they wouldn't let it lie. The final evolution of life is also referred to as the pinnacle of evolution, which the Reapers consider themselves to be. SAM has nothing to do with that.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 26, 2020 0:45:27 GMT
Humanity came up with it? The AI has members from all the various species, although it was in part a human financing the venture (Jien Garson). We don't yet know the species of the Benefactor. The in-game codex says absolutely nothing about who came up with the idea.
I find iit odd the people so readily accept that a few Prothean scientists living in total isolation amid a harvesting cycle could come up with a way to sabotage the keepers and develop Mass Relay technology to a point where they could build a mate to a mini-mass relay on the Citadel and use it to get there to do this sabotage...yet not believe it possible for a cross-species initiative to work out a better way to handle emissions apart from the Alliance's efforts to obviously do the same with their Tantalus Drive Core.
It is presumed that given the Andromeda Initiative was founded and funded by humans, they were the driving force behind the ODSY drive. Since without that, the entire project was a colossal waste of time. Clearly Jien Garson had an idea as to how to get to Andromeda from the start. And comparing the Tantalus to the ODSY is like comparing a paper boat to a cruise ship. Yeah the Tantalus drive can run longer than most other drive cores, but the ODSY is the next best thing to a perpetual motion machine. It renders the ENTIRE Reaper trap completely irrelevant. And in a billion years or more of harvests, however many thousands, perhaps millions of sapient species that have arisen in all those eons, it's only NOW that such a drive is developed? Oh, and those Prothean scientists didn't develop the mini-relay in isolation, the Protheans had already managed to reverse-engineer the relays and were in the process of building their first prototype when the invasion came. in other words, the relay was already there. Hey, if it means anything, it only gets worse when you consider how the framework of the trilogy’s internal logic really works against the reaper trap itself. The fact that the reapers are not really totally invulnerable should have doomed them eons before this cycle, but the past cycles’ civilizations fail due to plot constraints. Of course, this argument works primarily on the assumption that something like the ODSY drive simply never existed in the past, or at least wasn’t on the cusp of being implemented in a practical way before that cycle’s people were obliterated by the reapers. Looking at all the ways Mass Effect played fast and loose with technology and biology throughout the trilogy, I can honestly say that the ODSY drive is probably one of the lowest tiers of offenses from a wider perspective.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 26, 2020 0:47:25 GMT
There's also the issue of whole species possibly dying off (quarians, geth, krogan) And given Synthesis is the "final evolution of life" which Mac Walters seem to looooooove (given the whole SAM thing in MEA) they wouldn't let it lie. The final evolution of life is also referred to as the pinnacle of evolution, which the Reapers consider themselves to be. SAM has nothing to do with that. If it makes it better, the “final evolution of life” is a top-to-bottom dumbass idea anyway. Anyone who tries to push it without some tongue-in-cheek sense of irony is clearly broken and needs to be put on time out.
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