dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 4, 2020 13:28:09 GMT
2) go back after some other disaster has wiped out everything in the Milky Way that evidences what happened at the end of the Reaper War. It makes no difference really and can serve as a means of introducing a new improved mode of Relay travel and pull the Milky Way into new futuristic sci-fi territory. If this is the case, why not assume the ending was Refuse? This seems to be what you're suggesting, whether you know it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 13:59:20 GMT
2) go back after some other disaster has wiped out everything in the Milky Way that evidences what happened at the end of the Reaper War. It makes no difference really and can serve as a means of introducing a new improved mode of Relay travel and pull the Milky Way into new futuristic sci-fi territory. If this is the case, why not assume the ending was Refuse? This seems to be what you're suggesting, whether you know it or not. Why does any disaster in the Milky Way MEU have to imply the Reapers are involved at all? I'm not assuming refuse, I'm leaving the door open for a dark energy disaster of some kind. Something more in line with the triggering of the Crucible creating an event that no one, not even the Catalyst, anticipated. Something that also could have caused the Scourge to appear iin galaxies far away - like Andromeda.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 4, 2020 16:17:29 GMT
Pretty much this. In the end, Andromeda's sole purpose as a setting is specifically to avoid this issue altogether. It's a fair point. Andromeda did accomplish moving the timeline at least 600 years beyond the Reaper War. There's two ways to totally "ignore" ME3's endings: 1) never go back to the Milky Way or 2) go back after some other disaster has wiped out everything in the Milky Way that evidences what happened at the end of the Reaper War. It makes no difference really and can serve as a means of introducing a new improved mode of Relay travel and pull the Milky Way into new futuristic sci-fi territory. Of course, it won't satisfy either those who want to hang onto Shepard and the OT forever nor will it satisfy those who now want a completion to the stories started in Andromeda... but maybe it's a way to move forward, beyond this fan deadlock... and at least it gives us another ME game (a very different one, no doubt... but an ME game nonetheless). That's why I voted that it would be an acceptable compromise. My preference is still for ME:A2. I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth if we went back to the Milky Way to meet the aftermath of some off-screen cataclysm that occurs between the end of the Reaper War and now. I might actually buy some chips or something to enjoy the show. I think this would ultimately just double down on the players' general dissatisfaction with the ME3 endings. Like, it was already dour enough, but then something else came along and gave the Milky Way a swift kick to the groin while it was still writhing in pain. I'd rather just leave its fate entirely to the imagination at that point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 17:35:03 GMT
It's a fair point. Andromeda did accomplish moving the timeline at least 600 years beyond the Reaper War. There's two ways to totally "ignore" ME3's endings: 1) never go back to the Milky Way or 2) go back after some other disaster has wiped out everything in the Milky Way that evidences what happened at the end of the Reaper War. It makes no difference really and can serve as a means of introducing a new improved mode of Relay travel and pull the Milky Way into new futuristic sci-fi territory. Of course, it won't satisfy either those who want to hang onto Shepard and the OT forever nor will it satisfy those who now want a completion to the stories started in Andromeda... but maybe it's a way to move forward, beyond this fan deadlock... and at least it gives us another ME game (a very different one, no doubt... but an ME game nonetheless). That's why I voted that it would be an acceptable compromise. My preference is still for ME:A2. I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth if we went back to the Milky Way to meet the aftermath of some off-screen cataclysm that occurs between the end of the Reaper War and now. I might actually buy some chips or something to enjoy the show. I think this would ultimately just double down on the players' general dissatisfaction with the ME3 endings. Like, it was already dour enough, but then something else came along and gave the Milky Way a swift kick to the groin while it was still writhing in pain. I'd rather just leave its fate entirely to the imagination at that point. I think the gnashing of teeth is unavoidable if there is ever to be another ME game. They gave getting around the ME3 endings their best shot with ME:A... and we all know how that met with acceptance from the fans even months before the game released. Whatever they do, entire sections of the fan base are going to get their backs up about it. The circular discussions we've had here since this site started and the ones that were happening on the old BSN that got that site shut down prove it. If Bioware is going to move forward, they are just going to have to trounce on one side of the fan base or the other... and make sure that whatever story they release is just generally good enough to attract new fans. We're at the same point as we were before they decided on Andromeda with all the same problems still there... and a few others, because now they also have a section of the fan base that liked Andromeda and is invested in it. My preference is a story that connects the two... and the above does that. My absolute first preference is that they finish the story in Andromeda first... and then bring it back to the Milky Way more than 1200 years after the Reaper War.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 4, 2020 17:48:53 GMT
bring it back to the Milky Way more than 1200 years after the Reaper War. Nobody cares about the Milky Way, 1200 years in the future. There is no point to go back to it. Everything we cared about that was there, has been dead for at least a couple hundred years already. At that point there is nothing keeping us connected to the Milky Way, or to Mass Effect. Stay in Andromeda, nobody wants to know what is going on 1200 years in the Milky Way's future and are, probably, to scared to want to find out. Either undo the divide ME3 caused and make the return to the Milky Way worthwhile, or stay in Andromeda. I don't see the purpose of the Initiative to return to Andromeda. Wasn't the point to leave the Milky Way behind for good?
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 4, 2020 17:55:41 GMT
I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth if we went back to the Milky Way to meet the aftermath of some off-screen cataclysm that occurs between the end of the Reaper War and now. I might actually buy some chips or something to enjoy the show. I think this would ultimately just double down on the players' general dissatisfaction with the ME3 endings. Like, it was already dour enough, but then something else came along and gave the Milky Way a swift kick to the groin while it was still writhing in pain. I'd rather just leave its fate entirely to the imagination at that point. I think the gnashing of teeth is unavoidable if there is ever to be another ME game. They gave getting around the ME3 endings their best shot with ME:A... and we all know how that met with acceptance from the fans even months before the game released. Whatever they do, entire sections of the fan base are going to get their backs up about it. The circular discussions we've had here since this site started and the ones that were happening on the old BSN that got that site shut down prove it. If Bioware is going to move forward, they are just going to have to trounce on one side of the fan base or the other... and make sure that whatever story they release is just generally good enough to attract new fans. We're at the same point as we were before they decided on Andromeda with all the same problems still there... and a few others, because now they also have a section of the fan base that liked Andromeda and is invested in it. My preference is a story that connects the two... and the above does that. My absolutely preference is that they finish the story in Andromeda first... and then bring it back to the Milky Way more than 1200 years after the Reaper War. Despite my affection for the game, I would argue against Andromeda being a best shot effort to move away from the Milky Way, but I don't believe that of all the issues fans had with Andromeda, that moving to Andromeda itself was the issue. Ultimately, I think that people are pretty willing to accept any setting so long as the roster is strong and the story engages them. Despite the piss & moan show I see online, I don't really believe that people are as intensely attached to the Milky Way itself as some would have us believe. It's just that BioWare didn't do as strong an effort to add the level of intrigue in certain locales as we're accustomed to. Kadara Port, for example, could have been another Omega, but it never really got there, and part of what made it a bit worse was BioWare's insistence on adding the ever-pesky open world format, which is usually a ploy to make the game feel more content rich than it really is. It doesn't help that the writers shackled Ryder too much, even when the environment seemed to call for a bit more. The fact that it's not the Milky Way then becomes a low-hanging fruit on the list of complaints when other aspects of the game don't meet players' standards. I honestly do not see any real hope for the Milky Way itself, provided BioWare remains insistent on maintaining some sort of continuity with the final decision(s) of the trilogy. It won't matter how far in the future they'd even choose to go, because no amount of time will undo its effects. My preference would be to simply work with the new setting as the basis to establish something new and not try to reconnect with old baggage. Reference to established canon before the major decisions of ME3 is about the best I could have hoped for, and Andromeda did deliver that. I think the Milky Way is best left permanently in its grave.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 18:01:38 GMT
bring it back to the Milky Way more than 1200 years after the Reaper War. Nobody cares about the Milky Way, 1200 years in the future. There is no point to go back to it. Everything we cared about that was there, has been dead for at least a couple hundred years already. At that point there is nothing keeping us connected to the Milky Way, or to Mass Effect. Stay in Andromeda, nobody wants to know what is going on 1200 years in the Milky Way's future and are, probably, to scared to want to find out. Either undo the divide ME3 caused and make the return to the Milky Way worthwhile, or stay in Andromeda. I don't see the purpose of the Initiative to return to Andromeda. Wasn't the point to leave the Milky Way behind for good? ... and I don't care about whatever it is you care about. A great sci-fi story can be set in either galaxy and way, way into the future. The farther into the future, the more futuristic the sci-fi can be and the more improved the technology can be, etc. When the nostalgia blinders come off, that's when the story could really fly again. Use some imagination.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 4, 2020 18:09:50 GMT
... and I don't care about whatever it is you care about. A great sci-fi story can be set in either galaxy and way, way into the future. The farther into the future, the more futuristic the sci-fi can be and the more improved the technology can be, etc. When the nostalgia blinders come off, that's when the story could really fly again. Use some imagination. At that point, why not make a new IP altogether? It's not like the Mass Effect IP has any strength to it, anymore. It has a divided fanbase at arms with itself and a developer at scrutiny, no matter what they try to make with it. Bioware stands more to gain by not making it a Mass Effect game. You said it yourself that Andromeda would have been much better received, had it not been tied to Mass Effect. So why not go with that?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 18:35:21 GMT
... and I don't care about whatever it is you care about. A great sci-fi story can be set in either galaxy and way, way into the future. The farther into the future, the more futuristic the sci-fi can be and the more improved the technology can be, etc. When the nostalgia blinders come off, that's when the story could really fly again. Use some imagination. At that point, why not make a new IP altogether? It's not like the Mass Effect IP has any strength to it, anymore. It has a divided fanbase at arms with itself and a developer at scrutiny, no matter what they try to make with it. Bioware stands more to gain by not making it a Mass Effect game. You said it yourself that Andromeda would have been much better received, had it not been tied to Mass Effect. So why not go with that? They could. If they have a story that they want to tell than inspires them, they can certainly make a new iP of it.
Andreomda might have been better received as a new IP. We'll never know for sure because it wasn't. It doesn't change the fact that my preference is to see that story continued and finished.
I may not get what I want. You may not get what you want. All we can do is wait to see what Bioware does and then decide whether what they produce interests each of us enough to buy the game. If it interests enough people out there, whether or not they ever were Mass Effect fans, then Bioware will profit. If not, they won't. If they go under, they go under... we'll have to find another dev who's games we like if we want to buy more games to play... or we can continue to play the games we already own and like... and for me, one of those games that I will continue to play is Andromeda. I played it and liked it and I still want to see the story continued and finished. I don't expect you to care about what I want... and, as I said, I don't care what you want.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 4, 2020 18:36:33 GMT
It's a fair point. Andromeda did accomplish moving the timeline at least 600 years beyond the Reaper War. There's two ways to totally "ignore" ME3's endings: 1) never go back to the Milky Way or 2) go back after some other disaster has wiped out everything in the Milky Way that evidences what happened at the end of the Reaper War. It makes no difference really and can serve as a means of introducing a new improved mode of Relay travel and pull the Milky Way into new futuristic sci-fi territory. Of course, it won't satisfy either those who want to hang onto Shepard and the OT forever nor will it satisfy those who now want a completion to the stories started in Andromeda... but maybe it's a way to move forward, beyond this fan deadlock... and at least it gives us another ME game (a very different one, no doubt... but an ME game nonetheless). That's why I voted that it would be an acceptable compromise. My preference is still for ME:A2. I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth if we went back to the Milky Way to meet the aftermath of some off-screen cataclysm that occurs between the end of the Reaper War and now. I might actually buy some chips or something to enjoy the show.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 4, 2020 18:44:44 GMT
Who are you talking to? Who do you think you are talking to? You're not my dad, you're not my boss, you're not my doctor, you're not my lawyer and I did not vote for you. Do not presume to tell me what to do. and, as I said, I don't care what you want. You sure fooled me. And everyone else for that matter.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 4, 2020 18:54:01 GMT
Who are you talking to? Who do you think you are talking to? You're not my dad, you're not my boss, you're not my doctor, you're not my lawyer and I did not vote for you. Do not presume to tell me what to do. To be fair, anything more than just waiting is probably not worth the effort.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 4, 2020 18:57:47 GMT
To be fair, anything more than just waiting is probably not worth the effort. Let's close shop, then, because Bioware isn't releasing DA4 before 2024 and ME4 before 2026, if it doesn't get canceled in favour of Anthem 2. Remember, Anthem got an "improved" 7 year cycle, which ends in 2026, right on time for a new entry to the franchise.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 4, 2020 18:59:44 GMT
To be fair, anything more than just waiting is probably not worth the effort. Let's close shop, then, because Bioware isn't releasing DA4 before 2024 and ME4 before 2026, if it doesn't get canceled in favour of Anthem 2. Remember, Anthem got an "improved" 7 year cycle, which ends in 2026, right on time for a new entry to the franchise. My judgment on that's pretty much up in the air. People casually using terms like "live" anything with regards to Dragon Age already whittle away at whatever hope I have left, so my optimism is pretty much on Courage the Cowardly Dog levels of cautious.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 4, 2020 19:10:04 GMT
KaiserShepI don't care about Anthem Age. My interest in that franchise ended with 2 and Inquisition did nothing to turn things around. I have no vested interest in the franchise and except for the comic book writer, Nunzio De Fillipis, being an incredibly cool guy that actually got me wanting to support his product, I don't care about Dread Wolf. Moving away from being the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate was the worst move Bioware could make for the franchise, effectively killing its identity and the good faith the fanbase had in the franchise.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 4, 2020 19:14:45 GMT
To be fair, anything more than just waiting is probably not worth the effort. Let's close shop, then, because Bioware isn't releasing DA4 before 2024 and ME4 before 2026, if it doesn't get canceled in favour of Anthem 2. Remember, Anthem got an "improved" 7 year cycle, which ends in 2026, right on time for a new entry to the franchise. Where'd you get 2024 from? The one report said not before fiscal year 2022.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 4, 2020 19:18:09 GMT
Where'd you get 2024 from? The one report said not before fiscal year 2022. You're going to get a 2023 release, which will get delayed to 2024. Dread Wolf is still in pre-production and will stay there, until the Anthem relaunch, with Anthem Next/2.0/whatever, in late 2020/early 2021 and from there, Dread Wolf will officially get a fall 2023 launch window, which will get delayed to February 2024.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 4, 2020 19:21:53 GMT
Where'd you get 2024 from? The one report said not before fiscal year 2022. You're going to get a 2023 release, which will get delayed to 2024. Dread Wolf is still in pre-production and will stay there, until the Anthem relaunch, with Anthem Next/2.0/whatever, in late 2020/early 2021 and from there, Dread Wolf will officially get a fall 2023 launch window, which will get delayed to February 2024. Fiscal year 2022 ends September 30, 2022 which means the game could come out that holiday season. If delayed (which I doubt for long if at all) that'd be sometime in 2023. Sources for any of these claims, other than from your butt?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 4, 2020 19:25:56 GMT
Fiscal year 2022 ends September 30, 2022 which means the game could come out that holiday season You're not getting that in holiday season 2022. If delayed (which I doubt for long if at all) that'd be sometime in 2023. Yeah. Officially in fall 2023. Sources for any of these claims, other than from your butt? I don't have to. Reality will, for the umpteenth time, confirm me. Everything I've said this far, has come true. Either you choose to acknowledge it, or don't. I'm not your dad, you can decide for yourself.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 4, 2020 19:28:29 GMT
Fiscal year 2022 ends September 30, 2022 which means the game could come out that holiday season You're not getting that in holiday season 2022. If delayed (which I doubt for long if at all) that'd be sometime in 2023. Yeah. Officially in fall 2023. Sources for any of these claims, other than from your butt? I don't have to. Reality will, for the umpteenth time, confirm me. Everything I've said this far, has come true. Either you choose to acknowledge it, or don't. I'm not your dad, you can decide for yourself. So you have no sources except from your butt. Good to know not to take you seriously on anything.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 4, 2020 19:38:03 GMT
You're not getting that in holiday season 2022. Yeah. Officially in fall 2023. I don't have to. Reality will, for the umpteenth time, confirm me. Everything I've said this far, has come true. Either you choose to acknowledge it, or don't. I'm not your dad, you can decide for yourself. So you have no sources except from your butt. Good to know not to take you seriously on anything. It's the ultimate pessimists' approach...be proactively disappointed about everything
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 4, 2020 19:48:50 GMT
KaiserShepI don't care about Anthem Age. My interest in that franchise ended with 2 and Inquisition did nothing to turn things around. I have no vested interest in the franchise and except for the comic book writer, Nunzio De Fillipis, being an incredibly cool guy that actually got me wanting to support his product, I don't care about Dread Wolf. Moving away from being the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate was the worst move Bioware could make for the franchise, effectively killing its identity and the good faith the fanbase had in the franchise. "The fanbase" meaning.... you? How come we're discussing DA so much on the ME board, anyway?
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 4, 2020 19:54:10 GMT
I think the gnashing of teeth is unavoidable if there is ever to be another ME game. They gave getting around the ME3 endings their best shot with ME:A... and we all know how that met with acceptance from the fans even months before the game released. Whatever they do, entire sections of the fan base are going to get their backs up about it. The circular discussions we've had here since this site started and the ones that were happening on the old BSN that got that site shut down prove it. If Bioware is going to move forward, they are just going to have to trounce on one side of the fan base or the other... and make sure that whatever story they release is just generally good enough to attract new fans. We're at the same point as we were before they decided on Andromeda with all the same problems still there... and a few others, because now they also have a section of the fan base that liked Andromeda and is invested in it. My preference is a story that connects the two... and the above does that. My absolutely preference is that they finish the story in Andromeda first... and then bring it back to the Milky Way more than 1200 years after the Reaper War. Despite my affection for the game, I would argue against Andromeda being a best shot effort to move away from the Milky Way, but I don't believe that of all the issues fans had with Andromeda, that moving to Andromeda itself was the issue. Ultimately, I think that people are pretty willing to accept any setting so long as the roster is strong and the story engages them. Were that true, I don't know that we would have seen so much bitching and moaning that started as soon as Andromeda was introduced. Much of it was couched in complaints about the tech (geth telescopes, ODSY drives), various levels of impracticality, etc. As soon as they started showing character designs and whatnot, the complaints increased. I remember the reaction to them releasing a little video showing an animator working on facial expressions with PeeBee - it was ridiculous, and that's really when the anti-Andromeda campaign moved into full swing. What I'm suggesting is that a lot of people had already decided to flat-out reject it before they knew much about the roster or story. And I suspect that a lot of it harkens back to ME3's ending. It was so deeply unsatisfying in so many ways, a lot of people still seek more closure there, and simply aren't prepared to start a new ME journey elsewhere. It's like they're stuck in TMW, still in that Shepard frame of mind, wanting some sort of satisfying completion to that saga before they'll be able to move on. And I don't expect BioWare is ever going to accommodate them. I agree that Andromeda has a lot of room for improvement - but I do think part of TMW attachment so many people still carry has something to do with the lack of completion they got from ME3's ending - which isn't gonna change unless BioWare reboots something. Agree wholeheartedly.
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Deleted
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January 1970
Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 19:56:08 GMT
Who are you talking to? Who do you think you are talking to? You're not my dad, you're not my boss, you're not my doctor, you're not my lawyer and I did not vote for you. Do not presume to tell me what to do. and, as I said, I don't care what you want. You sure fooled me. And everyone else for that matter. Shrug. Just remember that I didn't start this conversation with you... and I'm just really expressing my desire to not continue it. So far, it seems to me that for all your blustering (and apparent "daddy issues"), what you're really doing is the same as the rest of us... waiting to see what Bioware does.
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samhain444
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April 2017
samhain444
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 4, 2020 20:13:24 GMT
Andromeda absolutely could work as a setting for Mass Effect but the writing has to improve and the next game needs to not release with as many meme-able issues (facial animations, dropping through the floor, disconnects, missing weapons from cut-scenes, etc).
With "Mass Effect Andromeda", if they had nailed the technical aspects, you are likely seeing scores in the 80's as narrative and character aspects much more subjective, but EA Access introduced the gaming world to "Addison's Tired Face" (among some of the other cringey facial and running animations) days before release and that set the tone.
They really need to complete the Ryder/Benefactor/Ryder Mom story arc before moving on to something else.
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