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Post by necrowaif on Jul 12, 2020 20:34:27 GMT
He has no problem with killing Hakkon because it needs to be killed, as it’s trapped in the body of a dragon and quite insane. Even the Avvar are like “Oh sure, kill Hakkon! Even gods need a good killing now and then!” Of course, they know that Hakkon will inevitably return, since it’s their belief that creates their gods to begin with.
I believe that Solas fears the Old Gods, or rather, he fears the power that they seek to unleash on this world.
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Post by yogsothoth on Jul 12, 2020 21:35:00 GMT
This really is the only thing they can do at this point without resorting to another ass pull Crucible 2.0. I don't understand why Bioware would go with another Reaper level threat in Solas where he can Freddy Krueger people in his sleep and Medusa people face-to-face. I've pretty much given up in being invested in the Solas story at this point. I don't think we'll need something as drastic as the Crucible in order to deal with Solas. His forces seem to be composed, primarily, of elves and rely almost entirely on information and secrecy. The only huge threat seems to be his personal power and Dragon Age has had way to dampen and block magic from day one. It could be something as simple as "We found this amulet of Elgar'nan that will keep Solas out of your dreams and save you from being turned into stone. You now have a chance to defeat him but be careful, this will still be the fight of your life." And then it turns into your regular boss battle.
When I said Crucible 2.0, I was referring exactly to what you suggested. I don't want a convenient "here's some ancient artifact that will solve your problems for you." I want an actual group of characters who have at least some reasonable means of fighting Solas. I don't want to recruit the equivalent of a mailman and elementary school teacher (see Sera and Blackwall) and have to pretend like they can do anything to Solas without immediately being turned to hot slag for even looking in his direction (or statues/dream-dead in Solas's case).
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Post by ClarkKent on Jul 12, 2020 21:55:20 GMT
I don't think we'll need something as drastic as the Crucible in order to deal with Solas. His forces seem to be composed, primarily, of elves and rely almost entirely on information and secrecy. The only huge threat seems to be his personal power and Dragon Age has had way to dampen and block magic from day one. It could be something as simple as "We found this amulet of Elgar'nan that will keep Solas out of your dreams and save you from being turned into stone. You now have a chance to defeat him but be careful, this will still be the fight of your life." And then it turns into your regular boss battle.
When I said Crucible 2.0, I was referring exactly to what you suggested. I don't want a convenient "here's some ancient artifact that will solve your problems for you." I want an actual group of characters who have at least some reasonable means of fighting Solas. I don't want to recruit the equivalent of a mailman and elementary school teacher (see Sera and Blackwall) and have to pretend like they can do anything to Solas without immediately being turned to hot slag for even looking in his direction (or statues/dream-dead in Solas's case). I believe for that reason we will be covert for a decent amount of the game. If it's a new PC it's possible we might not even know that our deeds are related to stopping an Elven god. An 'oh god - we've got a Elven god tracking us down - we're way out of our league" revelation scene would be good fun.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Jul 13, 2020 1:33:38 GMT
I don't think we'll need something as drastic as the Crucible in order to deal with Solas. His forces seem to be composed, primarily, of elves and rely almost entirely on information and secrecy. The only huge threat seems to be his personal power and Dragon Age has had way to dampen and block magic from day one. It could be something as simple as "We found this amulet of Elgar'nan that will keep Solas out of your dreams and save you from being turned into stone. You now have a chance to defeat him but be careful, this will still be the fight of your life." And then it turns into your regular boss battle.
When I said Crucible 2.0, I was referring exactly to what you suggested. I don't want a convenient "here's some ancient artifact that will solve your problems for you." I want an actual group of characters who have at least some reasonable means of fighting Solas. I don't want to recruit the equivalent of a mailman and elementary school teacher (see Sera and Blackwall) and have to pretend like they can do anything to Solas without immediately being turned to hot slag for even looking in his direction (or statues/dream-dead in Solas's case). Honestly, I think that Morrigan will provide a role in DA4 that will provide us protection from The Wolf. Solas is playing on some ancient magic business and Morrigan (also with her connection to the being that Solas absorbed to gain his power) makes the most sense, to me, to counteract his power. Also, Solas is all-powerful but he’s not invincible, meaning, he certainly has a weakness. He even has a soft spot for the Inquisition. I don’t think the writers backed themselves into a corner with this, I think they really know what they’re doing - especially given the double down of Solas god-like power AND his weakness (his heart lol) in Dread Wolf Take You. I have faith that whatever they come up will make sense.
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Post by yogsothoth on Jul 13, 2020 2:36:40 GMT
I believe for that reason we will be covert for a decent amount of the game. If it's a new PC it's possible we might not even know that our deeds are related to stopping an Elven god. If it's a new PC, then that means that we'll be working for someone, presumably either Dorian or the Inquisitor. We know Solas is keeping tabs on the Inquisiton. He will know, likely sooner rather than later, who the PC is once they get in touch with the remnants of the Inquisition. Even then, he still has an entire army of Spirits and Elves keeping watch for him. If the PC goes after anything Solas is interested in, he'll know about them. Honestly, I think that Morrigan will provide a role in DA4 that will provide us protection from The Wolf. Solas is playing on some ancient magic business and Morrigan (also with her connection to the being that Solas absorbed to gain his power) makes the most sense, to me, to counteract his power. As I said, I think the better solution would be to have the new PC get the wisp of Mythal that Flemeth passed through the Eluvian in the epilogue scene. Mythal can protect the PC, and you don't run into the SAM problem because she should be too weak to essentially use the PC as a meat-puppet and make everyone else redundant. We also don't know what Solas absorbing Flemeth/Mythal means if Morrigan took the Well's power. The above avoids that problem all together. We don't know the extent of the Evanuris's power, aside from Solas being able to instantaneously and effortlessly kill large groups of people and the Evanuris "not being so easily killed." I do not. My only real hope is that they actually open the game with Solas succeeding with bringing down the Veil, and Sandal's prophecy kicks in, "everyone will be just like they were," no one dies and everyone gets magic/connected to Titans/whatever happens to humans and Qunari. Then the rest of the game is dealing with the fallout. That or Bioware doesn't try to do an anime normies-can-somehow-fight-god thing, have characters that have actual magic/abilities that can go up against Solas, and fight him. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 13, 2020 9:18:43 GMT
I believe that Solas fears the Old Gods, or rather, he fears the power that they seek to unleash on this world. That is true. What I meant was that he acknowledges that Hakkon is just a simple spirit trapped in a dragon form and by killing the dragon the spirit is liberated to return to the Fade. Why would he not feel the same about the Old Gods? I realised overnight that there is another group that know more about the Old Gods and that is the Qunari. According to Arishok Sten in the comic series, they are actually mentioned in the Tome of Koslun. Now we know there is likely something strange in the origins of the Kossith that may be connected with dragons. Iron Bull even suggested the Tamassarans may know more than they let on. Where he was wrong was in suggesting that it was the Qunari priestesses who first introduced the dragon blood because the Kossith were around long before the Qun and in fact definitely as far back as ancient Tevinter, having sent a small party to Thedas that colonised southern Ferelden. Could Koslun have been one of their number? That would explain his knowledge of the Old Gods and their worshipers as ancient Tevinter was at its height then. Or did Koslun date to an even earlier period? Anyway, the Qunari are definitely concerned about Solas and Charter admits that they probably know more than anyone else about his movements. They have been actively studying magic in order to know how to counter it for years. The Breach caused them to step up this side of their research. I think the destruction of the Darvaarad ship was the real intent of his agent, with Kon Taar just being collateral damage, although distracting the Ben'Hassrath from their pursuit of him would have been useful. It was Gatt that suggests ramping up the war between the Qun and Tevinter was the primary aim and he was hardly likely to admit his real thoughts on the matter to an outsider when he could come up with a plausible alternative. The Darvaarad was the main centre for Qunari magical research. They moved it onto a mobile platform after their land based one was found and destroyed by the Inquisitor. If they constantly shifted it from place to place to avoid detection, it was going to be difficult for an agent to find and destroy, unless they provided a bait. That was Dumat's Folly. It would seem a double agent suggested it might be something that Solas wanted. He had to have been a double agent because Gatt originally says he was one of their agents and then he killed himself before he could be interrogated on the matter by him. Meanwhile, Solas' other agent swapped the real Dumat's Folly for the item they wanted taken to the Darvaarad, so they could follow its progress. Once there it could be activated and destroy the whole facility. Except the agent admitted they lost the trail, so they employed someone else to find it for them, who could also be blamed when everything went boom. However, if that was the real intent then the person really needed to survive, whereas the agent seemed content to let their patsy be destroyed along with the Darvaarad. So how would the Qun know that a Tevinter Altus was responsible? I'm pretty sure the real aim was to destroy the Darvaarad and all the magical research it carried. Solas would know that the previous Viddasala was working on a means to strengthen the Veil. That would have him worried. So he would wish to deny the Qun anything that might help them achieve their aims regarding the Veil or thwart him in some other way.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 13, 2020 9:50:41 GMT
We don't know the extent of the Evanuris's power, aside from Solas being able to instantaneously and effortlessly kill large groups of people and the Evanuris "not being so easily killed."
So far it would seem that he is a one trick pony with regard to that ability to kill large numbers of people. He can petrify but only when in the presence of that person. Whilst that is powerful magic it is possible that there may be a way of protecting the person or even a group of people, for example some sort of magic negating item or litany that operates over a limited area. That seems possible within the boundaries of magic in Thedas. It is how we countered the Uldred/Pride Demon in DAO and how Templars deal with magic. May be Sandal can come up with a rune. He knew how to petrify an ogre as a block of crystal so presumably he knows the reverse enchantment.
As for Solas' ability to kill people in their dreams. We have always known this was possible, even for human Dreamers. Presumably the mages of Tevinter also found a way to counter it with enough research. Felassan knew it was possible to avoid a confrontation by avoiding dream state but chose rather to go to his expected death. The weakness here is that Solas probably needs to be in dream state himself to do this. Whilst he is clearly very powerful in the Fade as the Dread Wolf, that would leave his body vulnerable in the waking world. However, I think to kill him permanently would require confronting the Dread Wolf in the Fade and that would be difficult, probably requiring the assistance of a powerful spirit that opposes him.
I think there are sufficient possibilities that it will be possible to thwart his plans one way or another without our PC ending up a block of stone. Solas has weaknesses, we just need to find them.
My personal preference would be an option to defeat him with logic; prove to him his ideas are flawed not just about the value of the current world but the benefits of restoring the old one. I always loved the old Planescape: Torment and how if you opted for building up wisdom over strength you could win many confrontations by simply talking your way out of them with reason, including the final boss battle. This should not be the only solution to the problem as it wasn't in that game but it could be one of the solutions, if your character has put in the effort in that direction.
Obviously what I don't want is something like ME3, where we unite Thedas, construct a weapon to foil his plans and then he pops up and offers us choices, with him suggesting that using our device in a certain way will result in an ideal world; in other words we were working for him all along and everyone gets turned into glowing eyed mage hybrids. By contrast, if we opt to destroy him, may be using it to totally block magic from the world, then that is a ruthless choice that dooms the world to destruction.
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Post by theascendent on Jul 13, 2020 12:13:25 GMT
Dealing with Solas reminds me of Eothas is Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire. We spend a huge amount of time trying to stop/slow down Eothas and nothing we do can really affect him. Hell even trying to fight results in him one-shoting the party with no chance to fight back. Unless we have a super convenient magical macguffin like with Vitiate/Valkorion in swtor we won't be able to defeat Solas conventionally.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 13, 2020 13:45:48 GMT
we won't be able to defeat Solas conventionally.
As I explain in my previous post, that is a very negative, defeatist attitude and to my mind wholly unjustified. Solas does have a weakness, we just need to find it. Even if we can't kill him, it is possible we could entrap him; wasn't that his own solution to effectively immortal ultra-powerful beings? For the writers to just accept he is all powerful and thus ultimately unstoppable, or require us to come up with a super weapon to stop him, would just be lazy writing.
There were two completely different methods to closing the breach, one involving an excess of magic, the other the suppression of magic but essentially it all revolved around magic, so it may well prove the same with Solas. Like I say above, to defeat him with logic or trick the trickster does not require a superhero, just a clever one.
I also wonder if it ultimately is going to have something to do with his real identity. The Qun were apparently looking for his real name, so they think it was something before Solas. They say "to call a thing by its name is to know its reason in the world." So may be it is just as simple as reminding Solas of his true identity.
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Post by theascendent on Jul 13, 2020 17:55:53 GMT
Well as long as we can kill him I will be happy.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 13, 2020 23:58:20 GMT
I think the Qun might be right, but not for the reasons they think. A name, in and of itself, doesn't really matter most of the time. Like... they find out Charter's birth name, it won't really effect her effectiveness at all. It'd just be interesting trivia.
But Solas, if he's a spirit, it might actually effect him somehow. But only maybe. I truly doubt it'd be a matter of reminding Solas who he was, though. I'm fairly certain he knows.
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Post by melbella on Jul 14, 2020 0:35:57 GMT
So may be it is just as simple as reminding Solas of his true identity. But Solas, if he's a spirit, it might actually effect him somehow. But only maybe. I truly doubt it'd be a matter of reminding Solas who he was, though. I'm fairly certain he knows. Isn't that what Cole says he will do if you turn him more spirit-y?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 14, 2020 1:22:32 GMT
Yeah, but I take that to be a "remind him" in the sense of "I'm gonna try to talk sense into him". If the Qunari are seeking what kind of spirit he started as so that they can have a lively debate with him, I will be very surprised.
I got the impression they think they'll have some kind of magic bullet against him by getting his true name. Like the concept of knowing a thing's true name actually gives you control over it magically somehow. Which is a comon idea when talking about magic from... basically the beginning of time. But it doesn't work unless that's the rules of the world, and I don't think DA has established knowing a thing's true name gives you power over it, in and of itself. Understanding of his character that's been gained in the process of finding out that name could give you a tactical edge over him, but the name on its own is just a name. And that's assuming they are even right about Solas not being his original name (as much as Spirits have original names), which I'm not sure they are.
(And its also assuming that Genetivi Dies in the End is accurate in what the Qunari even said, but I am going to give it that for sake of argument.)
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jul 14, 2020 4:47:10 GMT
Yeah, but I take that to be a "remind him" in the sense of "I'm gonna try to talk sense into him". If the Qunari are seeking what kind of spirit he started as so that they can have a lively debate with him, I will be very surprised. I got the impression they think they'll have some kind of magic bullet against him by getting his true name. Like the concept of knowing a thing's true name actually gives you control over it magically somehow. Which is a comon idea when talking about magic from... basically the beginning of time. But it doesn't work unless that's the rules of the world, and I don't think DA has established knowing a thing's true name gives you power over it, in and of itself. Understanding of his character that's been gained in the process of finding out that name could give you a tactical edge over him, but the name on its own is just a name. And that's assuming they are even right about Solas not being his original name (as much as Spirits have original names), which I'm not sure they are. (And its also assuming that Genetivi Dies in the End is accurate in what the Qunari even said, but I am going to give it that for sake of argument.) They haven't said it outright, but the whole All New, Faded For Her quest suggests that the mages summoned that specific Wisdom spirit ("We didn’t know it was just a spirit! The- the book said it could help us!") so I think True Names are not outside the realm of possibility in Dragon Age.
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Post by telanadas on Jul 14, 2020 8:42:34 GMT
I think the concept of a person's 'true name' is super intriguing in this context, and has the potential to add so much weight to a character's motivations and actions. Knowing Solas' "true name" could add so much nuance and dimension to his character if the writers do decide to expand on this thread, and tbh I would be disappointed if they didn't at this point considering they introduced this idea in TN. It wasn't just the Qunari that are dancing round this idea- the regret demon in Callback also used memories featuring the character's true names in an attempt to weaken them.
With a person's true name you can deduce a person's weaknesses and failures going back to their youth, and seeing as Solas is now seemingly unstoppable physically, it makes sense people would try to find out to his past mistakes and imperfections to uncover any flaws they can exploit. It's the only realistic way to undermine his motivations at this point imo.
When people hide behind a name they give themselves, it allows the character total control over their actions and purpose without the burden of their actual character. Without the facade/mask of a fake name, suddenly a character's personage and imperfections are exposed for other people to judge and analyse. It absolutely would be a valuable weakness for a character's true name to be exposed whether it's Charter or Solas.
Abelas says he "shed his name" when he entered Mythal's service, and his current name also reflects his role/purpose. Considering we also know of Felassan who named himself after his purpose, perhaps Solas did have a true name before he took up the mantle of the rebel leader.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 14, 2020 9:07:31 GMT
I think the concept of a person's 'true name' is super intriguing in this context, and has the potential to add so much weight to a character's motivations and actions. Knowing Solas' "true name" could add so much nuance and dimension to his character if the writers do decide to expand on this thread, and tbh I would be disappointed if they didn't at this point considering they introduced this idea in TN. It wasn't just the Qunari that are dancing round this idea- the regret demon in Callback also used memories featuring the character's true names in an attempt to weaken them. With a person's true name you can deduce a person's weaknesses and failures going back to their youth, and seeing as Solas is now seemingly unstoppable physically, it makes sense people would try to find out to his past mistakes and imperfections to uncover any flaws they can exploit. It's the only realistic way to undermine his motivations at this point imo. When people hide behind a name they give themselves, it allows the character total control over their actions and purpose without the burden of their actual character. Without the facade/mask of a fake name, suddenly a character's personage and imperfections are exposed for other people to judge and analyse. It absolutely would be a valuable weakness for a character's true name to be exposed whether it's Charter or Solas. Abelas says he "shed his name" when he entered Mythal's service, and his current name also reflects his role/purpose. Considering we also know of Felassan who named himself after his purpose, perhaps Solas did have a true name before he took up the mantle of the rebel leader. you know this point did come up during Genitivi dies in the end too.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 14, 2020 12:03:25 GMT
Yeah, but I take that to be a "remind him" in the sense of "I'm gonna try to talk sense into him". If the Qunari are seeking what kind of spirit he started as so that they can have a lively debate with him, I will be very surprised Well of course the Qunari don't know he has absorbed something of Mythal, which could wreck their idea because she could just come to the fore if Solas starts to waiver but it is likely their plan is something along the lines of undermining his current identity, revealing to him what he really is and thus he can no longer maintain the charade, which simultaneously undermines any power he has. Lambert did something similar with Cole in Asunder. Cole was a spirit but didn't know he was a spirit. Lambert revealed to Cole his true nature and initially that caused him to disappear. However, clearly he hadn't departed altogether and it backfired on Lambert when Cole returned manifesting as the opposite of compassion. I don't know why the Qunari think Solas is not his true name but they maintain it was something adopted by a self-styled martyr. This is where I have a problem with some of the things the Qunari claim to know. How did they come to that conclusion? Many of the things we know about Solas come from his personal conversations with the Inquisitor. Solas told the Inquisitor the he was not always Fen'Harel but adopted that title after it had been given by his enemies but he said nothing about Solas not being his true name. With our knowledge of the way elves seem to change their names with their role, just as the Qunari do, you can reach that conclusion but that means the Qunari seem to have been studying the ancient elves a great deal. Remember the information about Abelas changing his name is really only made clear in a text that you can only read if you have drunk from the Well of Sorrows, so where were the Qun getting their knowledge of ancient elves from? I never understood how the Viddasala knew that Solas had given the orb to Corypheus. He tells us he used his agent to do this, presumably to create some distance between himself and the action and the agents ensured the Venatori would find it, so how did the Qunari make the connection with Fen'Harel? Did they capture one of his agents and interrogate them? That means they realised that his agents were running around on his behalf before we did. No wonder Charter admits the Ben'Hassrath know more about Solas' movements than anyone else.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 14, 2020 15:23:39 GMT
I have all those questions, too, gervaise21 . Maybe agents of the Evanuris are influencing/aiding the Qun? Dreamers, themselves, or simply ancient elves, and they recognized the signature/nature of the Breach as being Solas' magic. Or maybe Par Vollen/Qunadar is its own site of some ancient ruins and has documents and elven tech (including an eluvian for first access to the network)? Or they found an ancient facility from Ghilly or Dirthamen? They've got to have had some kind of edge to make the conclusions that they have.
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Post by theascendent on Jul 14, 2020 15:33:28 GMT
The Qunari are trying to impose their 'truth' on something that contradicts and combats them in every level. They are clutching at straws in a feeble attempt to rationalise something that is irrational. At least according to them. Obviously they must have had a hint of something to begin their investigation into the Evanuris and Ancient Elves to understand at least what they were fighting against if not who. The fact that the Ben-Hassrath agent appointed to oppose magic was willing to use magic so abundantly in a desperate attempt to stop him shows how desperate they were. I don't believe for a second that the Vidasalla was a rogue agent, the Qun knew exactly what she was doing and did nothing to stop her. Just like with the Arishok in Kirkwall.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 14, 2020 15:37:19 GMT
My point about the true name thing is its only useful in two possible ways: there's either a magical binding effect to true names or there's a psychological one. I think we've only seen that there is a psychological one, with Cole's reaction to having his amnesia ripped from him being one of the prime examples. He didn't disappear b/c "argh no my true nature! I am expelled from this world!" He disappeared cus he was suddenly faced with a reality that he'd been avoiding and he couldn't handle it. That's only really effective if the person/entity in question is avoiding/ has forgotten their previous self. Then you can throw them off balance with the reminder at the right time. Solas seems to be perfectly in touch with his past, though, so I don't see how that can be effective on him.
Even if they plan to find out his true name to find out what kind of spirit he began as (assuming it wasn't pride)... so? I mean, yelling "You are pride now, but you started... as a spirit of FRILLY CAKE! J'acuse!" is just gonna leave Solas like "... So, now you know." and change nothing for him, really. Cus it ain't news to him. Again, if they add some magical binding context to true names, then fine. But as DA stands right now, I think the Qunari are just gonna find some interesting biographical info they won't appreciate and that's about it.
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Post by telanadas on Jul 14, 2020 16:42:09 GMT
I don't think it's so hard to believe the Qunari found out about Fen'Harel/Solas actions through their agents, especially when it's presumed they had spies in the Inquisition itself. They seem to operate through brute force tactics and if they even got wind of something they don't know about, they would investigate it. The breach really kick started it all. With the eluvian at Skyhold (or even earlier), they could have investigated further and dug deeper than anyone else could have. Solas did have agents of his own as well, and they're not infallible.
The edge the Qunari have over even the Inquisition is that they have what Solas calls "minions" who have their single purpose in life. They are singularly dedicated to their research and their purpose and this is shown many times in the codices in Trespasser.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 14, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
Obviously they must have had a hint of something to begin their investigation into the Evanuris and Ancient Elves to understand at least what they were fighting against if not who. I don't think it's so hard to believe the Qunari found out about Fen'Harel/Solas actions through their agents, especially when it's presumed they had spies in the Inquisition itself Okay let's be clear here. The Qunari began their investigation into what caused the Breach almost immediately after it appeared. Whilst the Viddasala concentrated on the magical aspects, they sent their agents, in particular Iron Bull/Hissrad to infiltrate the only organisation doing anything about it. So, I can understand they might have acquired from him the fact that Solas helped stop the Inquisitor from dying at the beginning, though I doubt if anyone knew more than he used some sort of Fade magic to stabilise the anchor. Also, the information that the orb Corypheus possessed was elven in origin. However, I really do not get how they make the leap from there to Solas being an agent of Fen'Harel or that he gave the orb to Corypheus. Since the Viddasala declares this after we have been through the Crossroads, I suppose it is possible she put the pieces together as we can about Fen'Harel, but that he gave Corypheus the orb? There is nothing anywhere to hint at this until Solas admits to it to the Inquisitor. Up until then we know it as players because of his meeting with Flemeth but no one in world should know, apart from perhaps a few ancient elves and the agent who gave it and we know from Tevinter Nights that the general rule of his agents is to commit suicide rather than be taken alive for interrogation. So there really is no way she should have known about the orb, particularly as Solas didn't give the orb himself but one of his agents did. Remember how he approves of the Red Jennies way of working with individual cells, so one group cannot betray another. I'm pretty sure he operates in the same way, so just because the Qunari caught one agent that doesn't mean they will know about the activities of another. Still, I suppose there is the possibility of a double agent. After all both the Qunari and Solas use elves for their undercover work. According to Half Up Front both groups have been actively recruiting and in Irian's case both attempted to recruit her at some point. So I suppose it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a Ben'Hassrath elf was recruited by Fen'Harel's network and managed to infiltrate them sufficiently to discover about the origins of the orb and that it was deliberately given to Corypheus. That must have really pissed off Solas when he found out, assuming of course that he did. May be that is why the Ben'Hassrath are so knowledgeable about his movements.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 14, 2020 17:24:29 GMT
Again, if they add some magical binding context to true names, then fine. But as DA stands right now, I think the Qunari are just gonna find some interesting biographical info they won't appreciate and that's about it This is why I found the whole concern about his true name somewhat odd. The Qunari of all people should know that a person can have many names over a life time according to what they are doing at any particular time, so why would finding out his first name give them any particular control over him? He left that name behind with that part of his life. However, I suppose it is possible that when the Viddasala was running around the Crossroads she may have come across some sort of ancient binding ritual that she passed back to Par Vollen for study. They may have concluded that it only works on the individual if you have their true name; hence their search for Solas'. I still think that co-existing with Mythal may prevent it working but I imagine no one knows that bit of information apart from Solas himself, so the Qunari are going to be in for a surprise even if they do find his true name.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 14, 2020 20:51:37 GMT
Everyone must have some sort of spiritual element that simultaneously exists within the Fade, otherwise how do you account for Tranquil? Cutting the person off from the Fade severs them from some part of themselves, which is why they have no emotions and, as Pharamond described it, feel as though they are in a dream, not fully in touch with the world. In order to restore that connection it is necessary for a being from the other side of the Veil to make contact for it to be a permanent restoration. (I assume that because Justice was being channelled through Anders that is why Karl's restoration was only temporary.) Now Solas describes the world with the Veil as effectively a world of tranquil because the majority of people are not aware of this aspect of themselves and it is probably harder for him to discern it as well. In that respect his anchor was what allowed him to sense their spirit because it probably did give them a stronger connection with the Fade than usual. Probably everyone can to some extent be a personification of their most influential trait and that is what Solas can see. (Remember he only admires the spirit of some Inquisitors; with others either he does not bother examining it or is repelled by what he finds and they never get the balcony scene). Cole also mentions something about this, though. He says how it is hard for him to focus on the Inquisitor because it is like looking into the sun, so perhaps the anchor was helpful in warding off unfriendly spirits trying to reach them through the Fade. We never really discovered what that being was that assisted us. It took the form of Justinia because she was close by at the time of the explosion and thus it is assumed it was a faith spirit (or even Justinia's own spirit). Faith spirits are also said to be extremely powerful but not as powerful as Hope. That is why I say we have yet to meet a true Hope spirit but it is possible that we will in the next game. I honestly think that the elves have "true" spirits but that is what they have forgotten about themselves, and in some way, that is why Solas (and Abelas) has trouble seeing them as his people. I sort of wonder whether that is also why most elves have lost their magic. I do think the Veil may be... sort of like what Plato was getting at in his Allegory of the Cave - a constructed reality, shared by the prisoners chained to the wall (and I think this Codex supports that possibility). Modern Thedosians haven't known / can't remember any other way of existing, so they all "agree" that the Veil is real, and that reinforces the existence of the Veil. It's self-perpetuating. It's a big mind trick, which, since it was created by a trickster, seems appropriate. Interestingly, the Veil is known to be thinner at night, when most people are asleep - maybe because they aren't actively reinforcing the Veil with their belief while they are unconscious. Supposedly, spirits are more active at night as well... makes sense if the Veil is thinner, but what if it's also because a bunch of them that exist in the physical world have been temporarily unfettered from their mortal elf, human and qunari forms while those physical forms sleep? I don't know, but I hope someday we might find out. Along similar lines, I wonder if mages of every race (that can produce them) might somehow have connected / reconnected (not fully consciously) with their spirit, and that's how they can access the Fade and do magic. (This is one of the things that might support humans and qunari having spirits as well. Dwarves, however, I think are something quite different, and I hope we might learn what that is in DA4.) I agree I've long speculated that Solas's greatest trick wa that he's basically managed to trick the world into believing the Veil is there - and that it's a construct that is effectively reinforced by the collection of minds believing in it. Tapping into this collective consciousness (if it's not, effectively, the Fade itself, or a part of it) may be the way to undo it. Perhaps this is what Sandal meant when he's said: "When he rises, everyone will see.", because Solas either switches or removes something in a place where effectively all living minds meet and can be influenced. Anyway - as much as spirits are likely involved everywhere and virtually everyone potentially has a spirit, I think magic wielding or lack of it stems more from conscious connection to the Fade Solas mentioned in Trespasser.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 14, 2020 20:55:42 GMT
Again, if they add some magical binding context to true names, then fine. But as DA stands right now, I think the Qunari are just gonna find some interesting biographical info they won't appreciate and that's about it This is why I found the whole concern about his true name somewhat odd. The Qunari of all people should know that a person can have many names over a life time according to what they are doing at any particular time, so why would finding out his first name give them any particular control over him? He left that name behind with that part of his life. Did he though? We don't really know all elvhen customs or practices. He may have shed some of his less important name and not his true one. It may be like in Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea" series, which I've always felt had some palpable influence on world and story of DA.
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