Tevinter Nights - Spoiler Thread

Oh my gosh yes, I actually wonder a lot about how accurate the "treachery of the wolf" actually is, especially with how foreboding and eerie the phrase "He will offer advice that seems fair, but turns slowly to poison" is. I think it's particularly interesting how he painted himself stabbing Mythal in the back in his unfinished fresco. Dirthamen is also stabbed in the back in the Fade. Maybe him taking other evanuris' power could actually be something he's done before...

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned on this thread before but did you notice how the elven artefacts that strengthen the Veil were referenced in the Wigmaker Job. Lucanis remembers there are rumours of elven artefacts that strengthen the Veil and prevent demons from breaking through and wonders if Ambrose might have acquired one. Then he finds a "globe crackling with green energy" and sure enough destroying it releases the demons.

It was hardly surprising that a Venatori might have acquired one of these but it does confirm their purpose and makes me wonder if they might play some part in the plot going forward.

Incidentally, why do you suppose Lucanis was sensitive to the magic in Ambrose's house? Was it just the fact that he was using red lyrium that meant even a non-mage could feel it or was Lucanis especially gifted in this respect? He also seemed to have incredibly acute hearing. Having re-read the story it does strike me he might be being set up as a potential companion, or character in some spin-off series, with Magister Zara Renata as his nemesis.

Also, who do you think was his mysterious, unidentified, no questions asked, employer who clearly wants the Venatori disposed of? The Archon, the Inquisition, Dorian/Maevaris or someone else? Could it even be an agent of Solas?

It's almost like his Pride blinkers him. 

I really liked this story- I am hoping they elaborate more on the artifacts since they played such a big role in DAI. I've always been suspicious of these devices ever since the lost temple of Dirthamen. Could they have been soul traps or something akin to a prison? I notice the colours in the the artifacts look similar to the sky in the crossroads. But yeah, not much to go on at this point other than pure imagination...

I think Dorian continuing his efforts to stamp out the Venatori makes the most sense to me. Sidenote, I'm hoping Calpernia can get a redemption arc in DA4 too.

It is Dorian who I thought of initially as he is extremely wealthy since the death of his father. If he thought they were responsible for his father's murder that would make him doubly determined to wipe them out. The same goes for Maevaris who set up the Lucerni with him and was already a target for the Venatori during DAI (among other people).

However, the Archon occurred to me because he would also have the resources to hire the Crows and seemed to want to keep his involvement secret when he was using Marius and Tessa to take out leading Venatori. I suppose that was more when they had Corypheus as a figurehead, who was a direct threat to the Archon's position. Now they are just a bunch of cultists, some of whom are Magisters, he is probably content to deal with them by more conventional political means provided they don't do anything that threatens him directly, particularly as he there is now the political group of the Lucerni to butt heads with them in the Magisterium.

I was left a bit puzzled by the whole aspect of how open the Venatori can be. On the one hand, in some stories, it seems implied that they are an illegal organisation whose members have to be careful not to reveal their allegiance and then on the other, it was mentioned how it is not illegal to belong to the cult so long as they are not actively doing anything illegal. If it is felt necessary to employ Crows to take them out, that would suggest that mere membership of their cult is not illegal or surely they would just be arrested no matter how important they are? However, the sort of antics that Ambrose was getting up to strike me as being highly illegal even for Tevinter. So may be it is a case that the Archon is in a very weak position politically and can't afford to antagonise the more highly placed Venatori.

Tevinter certainly seems a mess currently. Back in 9:12 the Qunari, led by the Kathaban of the navy, made a big push on mainland Tevinter in the area of Qarinus/Ventus and whilst initially successful in gaining footholds on the mainland, the city did not fall and the enterprise ultimately failed by being "torn apart by Tevinter legions heavily reinforced by mages". Sten was leader of the beresaad on the Kathaban's own dreadnought and his first hand observations on why the assault failed, led to the strategy of covert intelligence gathering before anything else was attempted. Yet we are given to understand the reason for the Antaam's current success is not the use of their Ben'Hassrath spies' intelligence reports but ignoring them completely and going for simple brute force, which was surely what failed on the previous occasion. Not only that but we are meant to believe that the Antaam is achieving this without any back up from the other two arms of Qunari society. The Qunari made such great inroads in the Steel Age because of the element of surprise and the discipline of their forces. Tevinter's own spy network must be pitiful if they weren't able to warn of the current assault so that Tevinter was better prepared to defend against it. Powerful magic is still Tevinter's best defence against the Qunari so why aren't their legions reinforced by mages doing a better job of withstanding the tide? I can only presume because the Archon and Magisterium are totally ineffective in organising it.

This is why I feel that some of what is said in Tevinter Nights about the division in the Qunari may simply be the writers leading us astray, or if you prefer an in-world explanation, the Qunari leadership deliberately sowing misinformation to keep their enemies confused. I certainly didn't think that they would just leave battle plans lying around unguarded for anyone to pick up as suggested in Three Trees to Midnight. Also, that what the lower ranks of the Antaam are told may be to keep the true situation from leaking out. After all, if the Antaam are working independently of the other branches, what were the Antaam superiors doing sending a Ben'Hassrath to check up what Bas-taar was getting up to?

So I think you are correct and they have split their forces so that the Ben-Hassrath can concentrate on tracking down Solas and possibly also coming up with a way of stopping him, whilst the Antaam are dealing with Tevinter and the threat of red lyrium. So unless there is some sign of Solas or red lyrium making an appearance in the surrounding nations, I really don't believe they are actually going to invade at this stage. Taking out the Crow leadership so they could set up a client administration would fit with this plan as that would mean they wouldn't have to waste resources on actually conquering it by force.



It would seem that the Venatori are prepared to use red lyrium for just about anything now, the fact that it can be farmed independently of the usual sources of lyrium being even more of an incentive. I did note though that when Ambrose was advertising for other members of the Venatori to take out the Crows on his behalf, he promised they "will walk at my side when we enter the Black City and take back glory for the Imperium". So that part of Corypheus' plan is still on the agenda. Obviously anyone prepared to use such a dangerous substance as red lyrium for such a trivial purpose as fashioning wigs, is not going to be particularly daunted by the prospect of being corrupted by whatever is in the Black City. May be they think it is the original source of red lyrium. Corypheus certainly seemed to think that sitting on the empty throne would be more than simply symbolic and would actually bestow more power on him.

Admittedly, those private thoughts of Corypheus you see if you do CoJ are probably not something he would divulge to anyone else. So the Venatori may not be aware that if you enter the Black City you will simply find "the darkness" and be turned into a darkspawn Magister. Then again, they seem so drunk on power (with many of them probably already insane through close proximity to red lyrium) that may be they don't care so long as they achieve effective immortality like Corypheus did.

Still the fact that they are probably stock-piling red lyrium for just such a purpose as breaking into the Black City is not good news. If the Qun are aware of this it could explain why they are dispensing with the niceties they usually use on the general population when conquering a nation and are just going for a blanket scorched earth policy where Tevinter is concerned. I assume that Solas would not be thrilled if the Venatori went ahead with such a plan either, which is why I thought even he could be behind employment of the Crows and the only reason he isn't getting directly involved is that he has his own end game to concentrate on.

It does seem as though the Venatori are going to continue to be a major enemy faction in the next game and probably a threat we have to deal with before going after Solas. Otherwise, there could be the danger that we could stop Solas, only for the Venatori blundering into the Black city releasing the Evanuris anyway.

There is more to it than that. To a hostile Inquisitor he says that the Qun "offend him" and I am sure he meant it. There may be several reasons for this.

First, the way they oppose freedom of thought. Right from conception they control the life of those in their society. They tell you with whom you may breed, then you take no part in raising your child, they mould their thinking and then tell them what role they will occupy in life. To him that is worse than slavery, as he points out to Iron Bull:

"Even the lowliest peasant may find freedom in the safety of her thoughts. You take even that."
"You said this world would be brighter if all thinking individuals were stripped of individuality."
"Your Qun would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!"

"The truth is, Iron Bull, you are Qunari. I cannot be disappointed in your decisions.  As a mindless, soulless drone, you could never make any."

So even though it may be a fairer society to the majority who do not aspire to anything other than a peaceful life, he objects to the control over every aspect of the lives of its citizens and the denial of the freedom of choice.

Second, their opposition to magic. They merely tolerate the mages among them because presumably even with their breeding program they cannot entirely eradicate them and they have found a way to both control them and keep them useful. However, their increased urgency to conquer the other nations was brought about by the observation of the mage rebellion in the south and then the Breach in the sky. Mages were clearly running out of control and threatening another catastrophe such as the one which released the blight on the world. For all we know it might have been magic that forced them to abandon their original home and cross the sea to Par Vollen. Anyway, the Qun would happily eradicate magic from the world and were working on a plan to strengthen the Veil, which runs completely counter to Solas' plan. Naturally, given his idealising of the former world without the Veil, where magic could flow freely, the Qun philosophy on magic is an anathema to him.

So his desire so spare the south from the predations of the Qun was a genuine one. He probably anticipated their next action would be a renewed assault against Tevinter and that probably suited him because the chaos of war would conceal the actions of his agents. Also, whilst Tevinter promotes magic, they deny other freedoms and many of them misuse their magic in ways that are probably very reminiscent of the Evanuris, so setting one hated super power against the other, probably amused him.

Plus it may well be an instance of history repeating itself. He set one side against the other last time round, if the Dalish legends are anything to go by, which in this case I think are accurate. This seems borne out by Felassan's tale of him escaping from his bonds by just such a method. So once again he has started a war to cover his own activities.

There may be another reason he loathes the Qun but when I suggested this before, many people objected that they want something in history to be independent of ancient elves.  However,  it may be possible that Koslun was originally Solas in one of his other forms, or a follower of his.   I have suggested that tearing down society whilst having nothing to put in its place is a very short-sighted attitude.  Well, may be he did.   The Core Rule Book even makes the suggestion that Koslun may not have been of the same race as the beings we now call qunari.   In which case, he would find the Qun doubly offensive because of what they did with his philosophy for a fairer society.  Having never read the Tome of Koslun but only edited extracts from it, it is entirely possible that his ideas were subsequently twisted from their original intent.  This could be true even if Koslun had no connection with Solas whatsoever, but he is aware of the fact from his observations from the Fade.  He does seem to have a very cynical view of any organisation set up for the betterment of society and feels it inevitable it will end in corruption and perversion from its original intent.    May be he sees the Qun as the ultimate example of this phenomena.

For what its worth, I actually had similar thoughts on him in the past. But it never went as far as to conjecture that Solas is still an evil mustache-twirling deceiver who is playing an incredibly long con for what I can only assume to be the power of the evanuris.

But I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he owned slaves in the past or was otherwise a douchebag of a noble who abused his power back in the day. A cocky, clever, hotheaded, power-loving noble who was all but willing to trample on those beneath him so long as he could enjoy his station. He was an ancient Orlesian, basically. Then he was either punished (by Mythal?) or put under circumstances that radically changed his worldview.

Well I think Charter is a given as the overall Inquisition spy/intelligence contact. She was being groomed in that role by Leliana so I think she will be the equivalent to Leliana in the next game, so not a companion but an advisor/contact with the organisation.

Dorian is likely to be back as the main contact in Minrathous for the Lucerni as well as a link for the Inquisition there. It is possible they might split that role, with Maevaris being the Lucerni and Dorian the Inquisition. However, I doubt either of them will be a companion. The story Luck in the Gardens seemed to suggest they are too embroiled in the politics of the Magisterium to risk themselves out in the field.

I'm pretty sure we will be seeing Lucanis Dellamorte, along with his potential Nemesis in the Ventori, Magister Zara Renata. He may be just a temporary companion for a particular quest but I feel that he is more likely to be a possible permanent one and potential LI. There is definitely more to Lucanis than meets the eye I suspect. I also do wonder if the epithet "the Demon" might be more accurate then we are given to believe in the book. His uncanny hearing, sensitivity to magic and unusual morality for a Crow might point to some sort of spiritual co-existence. We have had a spirit linked companion in every game up to now; Wynne and Anders were co-existing with one, whilst Cole was a spirit, so maybe that will be Lucanis' secret. May be he isn't even aware of it himself. Anyway, even without any spirit link, he would be an interesting companion to have around.

We might well see Myrion and Strife again seeing as they are PW's characters but if we can take any character from Three Trees to Midnight I would like it to be Irelin. We haven't had a shapeshifting companion since DAO and I'm sure there is any interesting back story to her. The only problem I see with this would be what that Dalish clan are doing up in Arlathan Forest. I'm sure it has something to do with Solas, so anyone connected with them is likely to be working for him. I have to admit that whilst I generally like playing elves and having elf companions, from now on I am going to be extremely suspicious of any elf offering to work with us.

For another mage character, I would think Neve would fit the bill. Already someone who seems a private investigator type, with a fair bit of knowledge about the various factions and seedier areas of Minrathous.

I think we are definitely going to have a Lord of Fortune as our companion. Possibly Mateo for a more straight forward martial type character but more likely Hollix as a rogue.

I think there is going to be some sort of Grey Warden involvement either in the main plot or an important sub-plot.   In which case it would most likely result in a Grey Warden companion.  I think the mostly likely one would be Ramesh because of the horrors he witnessed in his story and the likelihood of further ones to find linked to it but either of the other two in Hunger could be a possibility.   The fact that they were responding to a recall from HQ makes me feel that a visit to Weisshauppt is on the cards.

It is possible that we will eventually get someone from at least some of the various factions that would seem to be hunting Solas. So Gatt could be a possibility from the Ben'Hassrath. However, another character from TTtM, that would fit the bill would be Saarbrak and also mean an actual Qunari rather than simply a convert or renegade. We didn't learn much about him from the book, which leaves plenty to find out as a companion. I'm pretty sure he is going to turn up somewhere along route, if only in opposition to our PC.

Also, if not straight up in opposition to us, I think we might well have an Executor as a companion on the basis of their vested interest in hunting down Solas. However, they would probably fall in the category of "companion most likely to turn on you". Like any potential elf companions, I would be very wary about trusting anyone from this shady group, even without Solas' warning.

I do hope that some companions have not yet been seen either in the comics or Tevinter Nights. I would like at least some element of surprise about potential companions so I do not know more about them than my PC in world. For this reason I am still holding out hope of a Fog Warrior or Fog Dancer as a companion. May be also a Kal-Sharok dwarf.