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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 2, 2021 10:16:01 GMT
What kind of punishments are you referring to? If you mean denying treatment to antivaxxers, then yeah, that's messed up, though I haven't heard of anyone in power actually suggesting doing this, just comments and venting on social media. Sorry, I should have elaborated on that. In Germany unvaccinated people who have to go into quarantine as a precaution don't get paid by the employer anymore for their absence. Of course IF they end up symptomatic, they can go to the doctor and get a sick note and then get paid for their sick days as usual. (In Germany all sick days get paid, no matter how many, and you can't fire people for being sick.) This new law was sold as "justice". Not making good citizens pay with their tax money for dumb unvaccinated people anymore. Yay! And of course plenty of people agree... Imo that is already a very slippery slope. I mean, shit what comes next? If an obese person or a smoker misses work for whatever reason, should they no longer get paid for their absence? As you say, the majority of people end up in hospitals because of their behavior. Poor health due to bad diet, risk taking... Imo a civilized social democracy as Germany and other countries should continue to take care of EVERY citizen, no matter how stupid their behavior. Because we all do stupid things. One person might smoke, the other might drive recklessly. Next thing you know you won't get health insurance because you're not being the best you can be at all times, you know. I don't want us to become like China. We're not just slave workers who should take care of our health so we can work more and longer. People should be free to do to themselves whatever they want. And society should continue to fix them up. I know with covid there's the issue that an unvaccinated person endangers others too. I know. And that's why I DO think it's selfish. But I would rather we continue to help everyone than create a society built on scary idea of what a good citizen is. That can go nowhere good...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2021 23:29:55 GMT
What kind of punishments are you referring to? If you mean denying treatment to antivaxxers, then yeah, that's messed up, though I haven't heard of anyone in power actually suggesting doing this, just comments and venting on social media. Sorry, I should have elaborated on that. In Germany unvaccinated people who have to go into quarantine as a precaution don't get paid by the employer anymore for their absence. Of course IF they end up symptomatic, they can go to the doctor and get a sick note and then get paid for their sick days as usual. (In Germany all sick days get paid, no matter how many, and you can't fire people for being sick.) This new law was sold as "justice". Not making good citizens pay with their tax money for dumb unvaccinated people anymore. Yay! And of course plenty of people agree... Imo that is already a very slippery slope. I mean, shit what comes next? If an obese person or a smoker misses work for whatever reason, should they no longer get paid for their absence? As you say, the majority of people end up in hospitals because of their behavior. Poor health due to bad diet, risk taking... Imo a civilized social democracy as Germany and other countries should continue to take care of EVERY citizen, no matter how stupid their behavior. Because we all do stupid things. One person might smoke, the other might drive recklessly. Next thing you know you won't get health insurance because you're not being the best you can be at all times, you know. I don't want us to become like China. We're not just slave workers who should take care of our health so we can work more and longer. People should be free to do to themselves whatever they want. And society should continue to fix them up. I know with covid there's the issue that an unvaccinated person endangers others too. I know. And that's why I DO think it's selfish. But I would rather we continue to help everyone than create a society built on scary idea of what a good citizen is. That can go nowhere good...
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 3, 2021 20:57:07 GMT
I know with covid there's the issue that an unvaccinated person endangers others too. I know. And that's why I DO think it's selfish. But I would rather we continue to help everyone than create a society built on scary idea of what a good citizen is. That can go nowhere good... I don't have any large disagreements with anything in your previous two posts, although I'll say that "witch hunt" is a term supposed to be used when the 'target' is innocent of what they're accused of. That is clearly not the case here. With regards to this part, though - how much more help can be given? Seriously? I can't speak for other countries, but here it is free. Even private medical centres/clinics are not allowed to charge for the administration of it. The number of people who've received it and not suffered any ill effects whatsoever utterly dwarfs the number that have suffered mild side-effects (slight soreness around the injection area aside). And the people that have suffered mild side-effects utterly dwarf the number that have suffered meaningful or serious side-effects. The information - the true information - about vaccines, their safety and efficacy is readily available. These people just have to look somewhere other than Facebook or Reddit. They just have to listen to someone other than their favourite game streamer or online pundit who isn't an actual journalist and rather just someone with a webcam. ------------ Anyway, the lockdown here continues. Case numbers continue to bounce around from an encouraging low to a frustrating high. Another area south of my city has entered a localised lockdown for 5 days (my old home town of Hamilton). All just as school holidays start.... yay.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 4, 2021 3:52:19 GMT
I'm too tired to go into specifics, but a few more unvaccinated relatives of people I know have died. It's always the same. They have deathbed regrets that do no one any good. What a mess. That's awful. Among my family and friends nobody has even had covid (to their knowledge). Even among my neighbors who are 80% elderly (the oldest couple in their 90s) no deaths and, again, nobody even mentioned they had it. I DO hear from families of friends and coworkers that some people have had it and a couple are not fully recovered months later. But again, no deaths or even hospitalizations. I think it's a bit of everything you mentioned. Some of us are lucky to have precisely the DNA and epigenetic situation to fair well; and some of us have precisely the wrong situation. So, a bit of unpredictable luck. Some are really careful and have a good, responsible ring of careful people around them. Some lack lack one or both of the above. I have no doubt some of my friends' extended family were being careless. All of these deaths have been among unvaccinated people, unsurprisingly. It's the single most important choice they made, in the end. We also knew a good number of people caught in the initial wave in the northeast, when NYC was being decimated. So many were dying that we may never get a good, reliable number. We know some EMS and a couple of doctors in the city. They said tons of people were simply dying alone in their apartments, never even being confirmed as COVID-19 deaths. I never thought I'd see mass graves in the US. Fortunately, governors saw this stuff and mitigation measures started. We started gathering data and experience with the virus. We got better at saving people. Most significantly, we developed multiple effective vaccines. I hope we get enough vaccinated to prevent the rise of extremely dangerous variants. With my health conditions (caused by genes, not poor lifestyle), I'll never go back to pre-COVID habits. I've always had to be careful with infectious disease. We now will be living with COVID-19 for good. The best case is that we get enough vaccinated to keep it tamed, and manage it via good habits and yearly vaccination among the vulnerable, sort of like we do with the flu. We're not there, yet; but I hope we get there. I hope the hesitant get off the fence before they get sick and/or infect others. We've seen too much death from this thing. There's no great conspiracy or political agenda at play, here. There's a choice to protect oneself, and by extension others, or not. I really hope we can get to a point where more feel comfortable in getting vaccinated.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 4, 2021 5:56:17 GMT
So...this is really just a place to bash antivaxxers, then? That's what it's turned into. Yeah, it's really hard to say anything different because it devolved into an echo chamber. Have they really talked to "anti vaxxer or vaccine hesitancy" people? I mean it's hard to take these restrictions seriously in the states when our leaders can't even follow the rules they've set. I mean even the mods here is just using nasty and vile language to describe people who just don't want to take the vaccine. I actually think that I might get banned If I talk about anything remotely critical about the vaccine. Social media has gone crazy with mass bannings and what not that it's just going to make people hate their government more. I've avoided this thread long enough but I feel that I need to vent a bit, If we don't just stop and talk things will get a lot worse in the future. And with that I'm out.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 4, 2021 13:16:23 GMT
That's what it's turned into. Yeah, it's really hard to say anything different because it devolved into an echo chamber. Have they really talked to "anti vaxxer or vaccine hesitancy" people? I mean it's hard to take these restrictions seriously in the states when our leaders can't even follow the rules they've set. I mean even the mods here is just using nasty and vile language to describe people who just don't want to take the vaccine. I actually think that I might get banned If I talk about anything remotely critical about the vaccine. Social media has gone crazy with mass bannings and what not that it's just going to make people hate their government more. I've avoided this thread long enough but I feel that I need to vent a bit, If we don't just stop and talk things will get a lot worse in the future. And with that I'm out. Yup. I AM vaxxed, but I have talked to people more cautious about it, and it's a FAR more complicated issue than most ere give it credit for. Here, vaccination is just another "tribe" to belong to. And anyone not on your team is The Enemy and deserves nothing but scorn. And the mods are okay with this, because hey, it's their own team doing the scorning. Echo chambers are fine as long as its their own echo being heard.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 4, 2021 14:08:56 GMT
Yeah, it's really hard to say anything different because it devolved into an echo chamber. Have they really talked to "anti vaxxer or vaccine hesitancy" people? I mean it's hard to take these restrictions seriously in the states when our leaders can't even follow the rules they've set. I mean even the mods here is just using nasty and vile language to describe people who just don't want to take the vaccine. I actually think that I might get banned If I talk about anything remotely critical about the vaccine. Social media has gone crazy with mass bannings and what not that it's just going to make people hate their government more. I've avoided this thread long enough but I feel that I need to vent a bit, If we don't just stop and talk things will get a lot worse in the future. And with that I'm out. Yup. I AM vaxxed, but I have talked to people more cautious about it, and it's a FAR more complicated issue than most ere give it credit for. Here, vaccination is just another "tribe" to belong to. And anyone not on your team is The Enemy and deserves nothing but scorn. And the mods are okay with this, because hey, it's their own team doing the scorning. Echo chambers are fine as long as its their own echo being heard. It's not "just a tribe". When people feel their health or safety is being threatened, a form of "fight or flight" kicks in. We end up with a situation with many feeling quite literally threatened by their vax-hesitant neighbors. Even persons who are usually quite calm and peaceful fall into a mentally aggressive "defense mode". It's nature. To the vaccine hesitant who clearly don't feel as threatened by COVID-19 (at least as a group on average), this looks like a melodramatic overreaction. Sometimes there are overreactions, poorly considered ideas and poorly chosen words. People don't do their best thinking when they feel threatened. What it never is, though, is "just another tribe". It's a natural response to a perceived direct threat to well-being.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 4, 2021 15:01:14 GMT
Yup. I AM vaxxed, but I have talked to people more cautious about it, and it's a FAR more complicated issue than most ere give it credit for. Here, vaccination is just another "tribe" to belong to. And anyone not on your team is The Enemy and deserves nothing but scorn. And the mods are okay with this, because hey, it's their own team doing the scorning. Echo chambers are fine as long as its their own echo being heard. It's not "just a tribe". When people feel their health or safety is being threatened, a form of "fight or flight" kicks in. We end up with a situation with many feeling quite literally threatened by their vax-hesitant neighbors. Even persons who are usually quite calm and peaceful fall into a mentally aggressive "defense mode". It's nature. To the vaccine hesitant who clearly don't feel as threatened by COVID-19 (at least as a group on average), this looks like a melodramatic overreaction. Sometimes there are overreactions, poorly considered ideas and poorly chosen words. People don't do their best thinking when they feel threatened. What it never is, though, is "just another tribe". It's a natural response to a perceived direct threat to well-being. News flash: a lot of vaccine hesitant ALSO feel their health or safety is being threatened! And depending on the region, not without cause. And when an entire group is being passed off as "dumbasses" or "selfish" (or 'selfish dumbasses) You should know it sounds like tribal behavior. Or worse, cultish. Filthy, disease-spreading unbelievers...there outta be a law...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 16:35:49 GMT
Do the mods even care? They read this right? God knows they comb through each word I post. Wanna comment about whats been going on in this thread there mods? No? Just wanna go back to personal attacks and smearing people who dont agree with you as selfish assholes? You guys join hermancainaward yet? Celebrate when an unvax dies?
What can we talk about and what is off limits?
Everyone should start to question when people get banned for posting true statements. Im not talkin about this site. Facebook. Youtube. Twitter. Ive seen people banned for quoting the CDC. That should frighten anyone. But its their side of the political aisle doing it so they dont.
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 4, 2021 17:59:22 GMT
News flash: a lot of vaccine hesitant ALSO feel their health or safety is being threatened! And depending on the region, not without cause. There is a world of difference between people who mistrust the vaccine but who take other measures to keep from spreading disease, and people who believe conspiracy theories about the vaccine while also believing covid is no big deal and refusing to do anything at all to help prevent its spread. I don't have a problem with the first group. Unfortunately, most of the anti-vaxxers I encounter in my life are of the second variety, and they are absolutely causing harm. Most of them were misled by people in power that they trusted, so I'm not rejoicing when they get sick or die, but that doesn't change the fact their failure to follow safety measures (once mask mandates went away) caused local cases to reach their highest peak yet and for hospitals to fill up. Hospitals being at capacity means people have to put off treatments for a variety of conditions. The effects go beyond covid.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Oct 4, 2021 18:17:48 GMT
What if we reach the magical vaccination threshold and infections don't drop as expected? Do we just keep applying Covid restrictions...forever? Also, if we want an accurate metric of our herd immunity, why not include natural immunity? No doubt tens of millions have got it and are naturally immunized. One would think lord Fauci might be up on that info being an epidemiologist and all, but when asked on CNN, he said he hadn't given it much thought and really didn't know. That's a curious thing for the nation's leading Covid expert to say. But then he's lied twice already, noble lies of course. Once about what the herd immunity threshold is and once about mask effectiveness. Not only has this decreased public trust in medical institutions, it's simply unethical.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 4, 2021 19:11:07 GMT
What if we reach the magical vaccination threshold and infections don't drop as expected? Do we just keep applying Covid restrictions...forever? Also, if we want an accurate metric of our herd immunity, why not include natural immunity? No doubt tens of millions have got it and are naturally immunized. One would think lord Fauci might be up on that info being an epidemiologist and all, but when asked on CNN, he said he hadn't given it much thought and really didn't know. That's a curious thing for the nation's leading Covid expert to say. But then he's lied twice already, noble lies of course. Once about what the herd immunity threshold is and once about mask effectiveness. Not only has this decreased public trust in medical institutions, it's simply unethical. Statistically, approximately 20% of the United States has had Covid at this point. Add in the, what 55% that have been vaccinated? We should be at around 75% at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 19:19:21 GMT
What if we reach the magical vaccination threshold and infections don't drop as expected? Do we just keep applying Covid restrictions...forever? Also, if we want an accurate metric of our herd immunity, why not include natural immunity? No doubt tens of millions have got it and are naturally immunized. One would think lord Fauci might be up on that info being an epidemiologist and all, but when asked on CNN, he said he hadn't given it much thought and really didn't know. That's a curious thing for the nation's leading Covid expert to say. But then he's lied twice already, noble lies of course. Once about what the herd immunity threshold is and once about mask effectiveness. Not only has this decreased public trust in medical institutions, it's simply unethical. The goal isnt to get to herd immunity. The goalposts will get moved again and again.
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 4, 2021 19:21:13 GMT
What if we reach the magical vaccination threshold and infections don't drop as expected? Do we just keep applying Covid restrictions...forever? Also, if we want an accurate metric of our herd immunity, why not include natural immunity? No doubt tens of millions have got it and are naturally immunized. One would think lord Fauci might be up on that info being an epidemiologist and all, but when asked on CNN, he said he hadn't given it much thought and really didn't know. That's a curious thing for the nation's leading Covid expert to say. But then he's lied twice already, noble lies of course. Once about what the herd immunity threshold is and once about mask effectiveness. Not only has this decreased public trust in medical institutions, it's simply unethical. Statistically, approximately 20% of the United States has had Covid at this point. Add in the, what 55% that have been vaccinated? We should be at around 75% at this point. You'd need to take the overlap into account as well. That is, the percentage of people who caught covid early on, and then got the vaccine once available, or the people who had breakthrough infections. I agree this would be useful data to examine, though.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 4, 2021 19:24:30 GMT
What if we reach the magical vaccination threshold and infections don't drop as expected? Do we just keep applying Covid restrictions...forever? Also, if we want an accurate metric of our herd immunity, why not include natural immunity? No doubt tens of millions have got it and are naturally immunized. One would think lord Fauci might be up on that info being an epidemiologist and all, but when asked on CNN, he said he hadn't given it much thought and really didn't know. That's a curious thing for the nation's leading Covid expert to say. But then he's lied twice already, noble lies of course. Once about what the herd immunity threshold is and once about mask effectiveness. Not only has this decreased public trust in medical institutions, it's simply unethical. The goal isnt to get to herd immunity. The goalposts will get moved again and again. Well, the goalposts have since moved to 90%+, which is a pipe dream even under the best circumstances.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 4, 2021 19:24:57 GMT
Statistically, approximately 20% of the United States has had Covid at this point. Add in the, what 55% that have been vaccinated? We should be at around 75% at this point. You'd need to take the overlap into account as well. That is, the percentage of people who caught covid early on, and then got the vaccine once available, or the people who had breakthrough infections. I agree this would be useful data to examine, though. Sure would be nice if we could have that conversation without the threat of censorship looming overhead...
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 4, 2021 19:26:10 GMT
What if we reach the magical vaccination threshold and infections don't drop as expected? Do we just keep applying Covid restrictions...forever? Also, if we want an accurate metric of our herd immunity, why not include natural immunity? No doubt tens of millions have got it and are naturally immunized. One would think lord Fauci might be up on that info being an epidemiologist and all, but when asked on CNN, he said he hadn't given it much thought and really didn't know. That's a curious thing for the nation's leading Covid expert to say. But then he's lied twice already, noble lies of course. Once about what the herd immunity threshold is and once about mask effectiveness. Not only has this decreased public trust in medical institutions, it's simply unethical. Statistically, approximately 20% of the United States has had Covid at this point. Add in the, what 55% that have been vaccinated? We should be at around 75% at this point. A fair guess in terms of percentages, but "immunity" isn't that simple. For instance, data seem to indicate that being fully vaccinated grants at least 4 times the immunity as prior infection. And, of course, any form of immunity wanes with time. We are still learning about how the virus functions (let alone how it's evolving); the extent and duration of immunity; and all sorts of other important points. This is no doubt a big reason why people like Fauci are reticent to make any definitive statements. Our understanding is ever evolving. And if someone does make a confident statement or set a tentative timeline in the interest of public health (which is never as black-and-white as pure science), they're "a liar" when things don't happen exactly as they suggested.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 4, 2021 19:28:40 GMT
What if we reach the magical vaccination threshold and infections don't drop as expected? Do we just keep applying Covid restrictions...forever? Also, if we want an accurate metric of our herd immunity, why not include natural immunity? No doubt tens of millions have got it and are naturally immunized. One would think lord Fauci might be up on that info being an epidemiologist and all, but when asked on CNN, he said he hadn't given it much thought and really didn't know. That's a curious thing for the nation's leading Covid expert to say. But then he's lied twice already, noble lies of course. Once about what the herd immunity threshold is and once about mask effectiveness. Not only has this decreased public trust in medical institutions, it's simply unethical. The goal isnt to get to herd immunity. The goalposts will get moved again and again. This is the type of unproductive, tribal, politically-driven, whack-a-doodle talking point you claim to be tired of hearing. Edit: typo
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 19:30:39 GMT
The goal isnt to get to herd immunity. The goalposts will get moved again and again. This is the type of unproductive, tribal, politically-driven, whack-a-doodle talking point you claim to be tired of hearing. Edit: typo What are you talking about?
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 4, 2021 19:36:48 GMT
This is the type of unproductive, tribal, politically-driven, whack-a-doodle talking point you claim to be tired of hearing. Edit: typo What are you talking about? I'm talking about your conspiratorial post. It's silly political propaganda. Maybe you weren't specifically complaining about "tribal" or political posts, as others have. Unless I'm completely misreading you, though, you are at the very least miffed because you feel that only one group is being heard in this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 19:47:57 GMT
What are you talking about? I'm talking about your conspiratorial post. It's silly political propaganda. Maybe you weren't specifically complaining about "tribal" or political posts, as others have. Unless I'm completely misreading you, though, you are at the very least miffed because you feel that only one group is being heard in this thread. All I said was it wasnt the goal and you immediately go to conspiratorial, political and propaganda without even knowing what I know is the main goal.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 4, 2021 19:51:04 GMT
Statistically, approximately 20% of the United States has had Covid at this point. Add in the, what 55% that have been vaccinated? We should be at around 75% at this point. A fair guess in terms of percentages, but "immunity" isn't that simple. For instance, data seem to indicate that being fully vaccinated grants at least 4 times the immunity as prior infection. And, of course, any form of immunity wanes with time. We are still learning about how the virus functions (let alone how it's evolving); the extent and duration of immunity; and all sorts of other important points. This is no doubt a big reason why people like Fauci are reticent to make any definitive statements. Our understanding is ever evolving. And if someone does make a confident statement or set a tentative timeline in the interest of public health (which is never as black-and-white as pure science), they're "a liar" when things don't happen exactly as they suggested. Was it a British study I saw recently that showed that 1 in 3 people who'd contracted Covid suffered from one or more "long Covid" symptoms? Ongoing, seriously debilitating health effects? So while having been infected and recovered provides some immunity - like you say, not clear how much, but definitely less than the vaccines - it would appear to be a poor strategy for staying healthy. I would like to know if an annual booster shot is all that will be needed, though. Or if it might need to be more frequent. Plus, while the vaccine isn't a 100% perfect shield - and no one ever claimed it was - if you are fully vaccinated and still contract Covid, you're far, far less likely to develop serious symptoms or require hospitalisation (hence, leaving capacity free for people who get sick from something that can't be vaccinated against). ----- Yesterday we found out that the country is moving away from its 'elimination' strategy. "Zero" covid is no longer a thing that the government is aiming for, which is a bit like saying we're no longer aiming to reverse the orbit of the moon. It worked for us with the initial Covid, but Delta is just so much more transmissible. One case on a Tuesday afternoon in August has become more than 1200 just a few weeks later. As of tomorrow we'll be able to meet with one other family (no more than 10 people at a time) outdoors. Guess what the weather forecast is for the next week? Hint: there's not a lot of sun.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 4, 2021 19:51:49 GMT
I'm talking about your conspiratorial post. It's silly political propaganda. Maybe you weren't specifically complaining about "tribal" or political posts, as others have. Unless I'm completely misreading you, though, you are at the very least miffed because you feel that only one group is being heard in this thread. All I said was it wasnt the goal and you immediately go to conspiratorial, political and propaganda without even knowing what I know is the main goal. Fair enough. It sounded like a lot like the nutjob "social control" stuff I see all the time, and I jumped the gun. What do you think the final goal is?
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 4, 2021 19:53:45 GMT
A fair guess in terms of percentages, but "immunity" isn't that simple. For instance, data seem to indicate that being fully vaccinated grants at least 4 times the immunity as prior infection. And, of course, any form of immunity wanes with time. We are still learning about how the virus functions (let alone how it's evolving); the extent and duration of immunity; and all sorts of other important points. This is no doubt a big reason why people like Fauci are reticent to make any definitive statements. Our understanding is ever evolving. And if someone does make a confident statement or set a tentative timeline in the interest of public health (which is never as black-and-white as pure science), they're "a liar" when things don't happen exactly as they suggested. Was it a British study I saw recently that showed that 1 in 3 people who'd contracted Covid suffered from one or more "long Covid" symptoms? Ongoing, seriously debilitating health effects? So while having been infected and recovered provides some immunity - like you say, not clear how much, but definitely less than the vaccines - it would appear to be a poor strategy for staying healthy. I would like to know if an annual booster shot is all that will be needed, though. Or if it might need to be more frequent. Plus, while the vaccine isn't a 100% perfect shield - and no one ever claimed it was - if you are fully vaccinated and still contract Covid, you're far, far less likely to develop serious symptoms or require hospitalisation (hence, leaving capacity free for people who get sick from something that can't be vaccinated against). ----- Yesterday we found out that the country is moving away from its 'elimination' strategy. "Zero" covid is no longer a thing that the government is aiming for, which is a bit like saying we're no longer aiming to reverse the orbit of the moon. It worked for us with the initial Covid, but Delta is just so much more transmissible. One case on a Tuesday afternoon in August has become more than 1200 just a few weeks later. As of tomorrow we'll be able to meet with one other family (no more than 10 people at a time) outdoors. Guess what the weather forecast is for the next week? Hint: there's not a lot of sun. I read about the shift in public policy. I get it. I hope it doesn't result in an explosive rise in serious illness.
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 4, 2021 19:55:40 GMT
You'd need to take the overlap into account as well. That is, the percentage of people who caught covid early on, and then got the vaccine once available, or the people who had breakthrough infections. I agree this would be useful data to examine, though. Sure would be nice if we could have that conversation without the threat of censorship looming overhead... Who's threatening to censor you, though? I had a post/video removed some weeks ago that was critical of anti-vaxxers (the anti-vaxxers were calling for violence, and mods said the video was against proboards terms of service), and then wanted to post another video that was critical of anti-maskers (in a humorous way), and was told I couldn't because this thread is for discussing personal experiences with the pandemic, not for broader policy discussions. It's not as if you solely are being targeted. Did you have a post removed? Or do you mean censorship outside of this forum, such as YouTube or Twitter? In that case, well...for better or worse, we in the US have given private companies a ton of leeway to censor whatever they don't like. I think rather than remove conspiracy-laden content, they should put a warning on it like YouTube does for flat Earth videos. Removing all such content entirely from a large platform like YT causes a real danger of silencing honest discourse.
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