Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on May 14, 2020 1:23:38 GMT
It's alike aliens are... alien...or something. But in SF you don't just get to play that handwave and call it a day, do you?
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Post by Iakus on May 14, 2020 1:27:11 GMT
Someone remind me... what were people actually asking for back then? The intellectual dishonesty was so rife that I could never get a coherent picture of the demand. It wasn't for a happier ending with fewer bad consequences, except when it was. Among other things like character assassination, trivializing of major choices, lack of dialogue options, and basically everything Shepard did in the trilogy, big or small being reduced to arbitrary numbers, it was the lack of varying outcomes. It was being forced to do something horrific to the galaxy and then die. In Ghostbusters parlance "Choose the form of the Destructor" But you know all this. You're just sealioning.
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Post by Iakus on May 14, 2020 1:28:43 GMT
Narnia's good, but nothing beats LOTR
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Post by luketrevelyan on May 14, 2020 1:30:10 GMT
Honestly I think if there was even just one happy ending outcome, most of the rage about everything else would've gone away. People like happy endings, that's just how we are. To not have one made people feel like it was all pointless and all of the choices they made throughout the trilogy were for nothing.
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Post by Iakus on May 14, 2020 1:37:06 GMT
Honestly I think if there was even just one happy ending outcome, most of the rage about everything else would've gone away. People like happy endings, that's just how we are. To not have one made people feel like it was all pointless and all of the choices they made throughout the trilogy were for nothing. It's not even a "happy" outcome, it's a hopeful one. EC tried to gussy things up by trying to TELL us these were "good" outcomes. But they largely ignored what it was that made them so horrific to people: forcing the protagonist of the trilogy, a character we've been playing for five years, to commit genocide, or forcibly eugenicize (it's a word) the galaxy, or hand the galaxy over to the very machines they were fighting. And we get a slideshow basically telling is "it just works" They slapped a coat of paint on the endings and didn't actually deal with the underlying problems., and called it a day. Interestingly, in contrast, Telltale's first season of The Walking Dead was released that same year. It was a game with fewer choices available, and essentially one ending. But how the game responded to player choice led to the (obviously) sad ending feeling potentially very powerful and "worth it" in a way ME3 couldn't hope to match.
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Post by themikefest on May 14, 2020 2:26:20 GMT
Honestly I think if there was even just one happy ending outcome, most of the rage about everything else would've gone away. People like happy endings, that's just how we are. To not have one made people feel like it was all pointless and all of the choices they made throughout the trilogy were for nothing. I got my happy ending when the reapers were destroyed whether my ems was very low or very high
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Post by NotN7 on May 14, 2020 3:37:45 GMT
Honestly I think if there was even just one happy ending outcome, most of the rage about everything else would've gone away. People like happy endings, that's just how we are. To not have one made people feel like it was all pointless and all of the choices they made throughout the trilogy were for nothing. I got my happy ending when the reapers were destroyed whether my ems was very low or very high
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 14, 2020 8:28:03 GMT
I wonder as well. It's kind of incredible that eight years after and the endings are still an issue for some people *sighs*I'm sure Biowre is just as surprised. Someone remind me... what were people actually asking for back then? To change the ending. All of it. As it were, including the Starkid. Rewrite it. I'm sure you all remember the conversations about the kid being a Deus Ex Machina that had no reason to exist in Mass Effect etc.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 14, 2020 9:42:50 GMT
Someone remind me... what were people actually asking for back then? To change the ending. All of it. As it were, including the Starkid. Rewrite it. I'm sure you all remember the conversations about the kid being a Deus Ex Machina that had no reason to exist in Mass Effect etc. That was never going to happen for many reasons. They addressed as much as they could with the Extended Cut, and honestly that was a gift compared to what most other studios would have done.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 14, 2020 11:26:12 GMT
That was never going to happen for many reasons. They addressed as much as they could with the Extended Cut, and honestly that was a gift compared to what most other studios would have done. I don't really care what studios think is a gift. I'm sure Lucas Films thought the same about TLJ and it killed the franchise. Oh and Anthem's Legion of Dawn edition was the most ... oooh, I forget the line. What was it? Most generous offer in gaming? Something like that?
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 14, 2020 11:26:49 GMT
If they just "walked away" There'd have been no mention of Shepard, the Reapers, or anything from the OT. Instead, they handwaved a lazy way to leave the galaxy (and render the Reaper trap laughably pointless) Honestly, they would have been better off just leaving "Mass Effect" off the title, just call the series "Andromeda", and start fresh with zero Reaper baggage. THAT would have been walking away. Sorry but I totally disagree Andromeda started in the Mass effect era and deserves the Mass Effect title (hint me2/me3) when they left, now with that said yes it wasn't the greatest game but still I enjoyed it and yes reapers deserve to be the first part of the Andromeda story if an ME2 comes out if there is no mention of reapers etc from the milky way then to me MEA is progressing right along, now what's behind them and the reason why they left has been covered in MEA. Exaxctly it was called Mass Effect becasuse they wanted to still use elements of ME in the new story such as he Turians Asari and Krogan for example. They jus twanted to get away from the whole reaper thing and tell a new story set around a nwe bunch of characters. In that for me they succeeded. How good or bad the story is subjective at this point and totally based on peoples individual opinions. Personally I liked MEA still do but I know ther are plenty that don't and I'm happy to leave it at that.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 14, 2020 11:34:34 GMT
what are Yanick Roy and Mac Walters doing at the moment? sirpetrakus i haven't hear nothing from andromeda. are they working on the next mass effect or dragon age? DA and Anthem aer the things they'er workig on atm though they aer I believe in the pre production stages of the next Mass Effect but no news other than that.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 14, 2020 16:05:41 GMT
but I just don't see how going back will do anything besides make more people angered because what they wanted fixed was ignored and something else they considered important was ignored. So they should move forward with another game in Andromeda with Ryder returning? The number one complaint I've read/heard is people found the characters dull, boring. Bioware removed the power wheel, removed the choice to have/not a squadmate on the roster. Is that moving forward? If Bioware were to make another game in Andromeda, I don't see them bringing Ryder back. Ah yes the remake, or rather the extended cut that Bioware calls it. Before the remake, I mean cut, the relays exploded and the SR2 was stuck on the unknown planet regardless of ems. Now all of sudden the relays don't explode and SR2 is able to fly off the planet without any problems. The kid is confused. Did the relays explode or not? Did the Normandy leave the planet or not? Why didn't the guy tell the kid that stuff the first time? Sure the cut may have addressed a few things, but it left some questions unanswered. Well, the end of Andromeda leaves a lot more headroom to work with than what we have left of the Milky Way after the scorched earth space magic death bukkake, so why not? I guess the thing about dull characters as a complaint that rings hollow for me is that this doesn’t really mean anything when it comes to material that’s yet to be developed. As an example, let’s look at the MCU iteration of Thor. The original Thor is boring as fuck. Doesn’t matter what anyone says; this character didn’t really resonate with general audiences, even the actor himself was bored and was basically phoning it in in The Dark World. But, he got revitalized and managed to make his way to being a fan favorite. Again, doesn’t matter who personally didn’t like these changes, it was clear that these changes were wildly successful anyway. Whatever deficiencies in writing and characterization that exist don’t obligate anything made in the future to adhere to the them. If BioWare swapped protagonists and the entire cast because they want to follow a Dragon Age model of this being about the setting and not the central characters, then fine. I’m used to that. But if it’s the result of overreaction to fan feedback, and they decide to fall for the ridiculous lie that creating a new character is a solution that works, then I’m afraid I’d have to call bullshit. Remember, characters aren’t real people; they’re just fabrications of writers. If the writers can’t assemble interesting characters, they can’t solve any problems with trying to create new ones. Maybe instead of changing Ryder, they could just get new writers. If anyone’s worried about character consistency, they can find comfort in the fact that this doesn’t exist for BioWare protagonists anyway. The point about the power wheel and having options to choose your roster are moot, as they have nothing to do with Andromeda specifically. Had they created a game based in the Milky Way as a direct sequel to ME3, these things would have been exactly the same. I’d even chance a guess that the functions of SAM in terms of combat gameplay would also have been present, even possibly having a version of SAM that speaks to us, just under a much different context. The Extended Cut definitely doesn’t smooth out all of those horrible nagging things that plague the original ending, but frankly, the ending is so immensely damaged that nothing save an entire rewrite from everything from the beam run onward could ever hope to tie this logistical shit-circus together.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 14, 2020 16:10:46 GMT
The Extended Cut definitely doesn’t smooth out all of those horrible nagging things that plague the original ending, but frankly, the ending is so immensely damaged that nothing save an entire rewrite from everything from the beam run onward could ever hope to tie this logistical shit-circus together. +1
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Post by themikefest on May 14, 2020 16:49:22 GMT
Well, the end of Andromeda leaves a lot more headroom to work with than what we have left of the Milky Way after the scorched earth space magic death bukkake, so why not? I would say the Milky Way has just as much headroom as Andromeda. After all, what happened in the Milky Way is based on a story told by someone that has changed it at least once. And is uncertain what the details are since he did say some of them have been lost over time. Since I know nothing about thor or the mcu stuff, I'll leave the looking to you. Getting new writers doesn't guarantee the characters will be better. For me, I don't see what they could write that would get me interested in some of the characters They are not moot. Don't you like having more choices in the game? Not having a power wheel felt like why have squadmates at all. Having the ability to not recruit a squadmate can give replay value seeing the difference in the game. I believe it can be depending on what Bioware were to do. You say everything from the beam run, I would say everything from the moment Anderson mentioned his plan before the fleets headed to Earth.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 14, 2020 17:08:08 GMT
Well, the end of Andromeda leaves a lot more headroom to work with than what we have left of the Milky Way after the scorched earth space magic death bukkake, so why not? I would say the Milky Way has just as much headroom as Andromeda. After all, what happened in the Milky Way is based on a story told by someone that has changed it at least once. And is uncertain what the details are since he did say some of them have been lost over time. They are not moot. Don't you like having more choices in the game? Not having a power wheel felt like why have squadmates at all. Having the ability to not recruit a squadmate can give replay value seeing the difference in the game. The defunct dark age post-credit sequence is not exactly what I’d call a sound foundation to build an entire new game off of, unless the goal is now to insist that everything we did from ME1 onward is essentially the ramblings of the Cloud Atlas geezer. The Shepard banged many a lady throughout the galaxy, or maybe he banged no one. All’s I know is he convened with the mighty Conrad Vernor to defeat the xeno menace, and that be the true true. On that second point, you misunderstand. I didn’t say I disagree with the idea that having more options is a good thing; what I’m saying is that options Andromeda may be lacking don’t really mean anything for any future titles, as the developers can add as many options as they like. I don’t like that Andromeda doesn’t allow me to customize my roster’s weapon loadouts, but there’s nothing that precludes a hypothetical Andromeda 2 from giving this feature back to players.
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Post by natetrace on May 14, 2020 17:25:48 GMT
That was never going to happen for many reasons. They addressed as much as they could with the Extended Cut, and honestly that was a gift compared to what most other studios would have done. I don't really care what studios think is a gift. I'm sure Lucas Films thought the same about TLJ and it killed the franchise. Oh and Anthem's Legion of Dawn edition was the most ... oooh, I forget the line. What was it? Most generous offer in gaming? Something like that? I wouldn't say TLJ (the best sequel movie) killed the franchise, maybe JJs Rise of Palpatines clones granddaughter or Solo or over saturation did. In a way though you are right in that I think last Jedi should have ended it, and maybe others felt the same. Also I was satisfied with the extended cut endings, and I always appreciate getting something for free.
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Post by smilesja on May 14, 2020 17:55:24 GMT
That was never going to happen for many reasons. They addressed as much as they could with the Extended Cut, and honestly that was a gift compared to what most other studios would have done. I don't really care what studios think is a gift. I'm sure Lucas Films thought the same about TLJ and it killed the franchise. Oh and Anthem's Legion of Dawn edition was the most ... oooh, I forget the line. What was it? Most generous offer in gaming? Something like that? Where did they say Legion of Dawn was the most generous offer in gaming?
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Post by Sanunes on May 14, 2020 18:33:13 GMT
I don't really care what studios think is a gift. I'm sure Lucas Films thought the same about TLJ and it killed the franchise. Oh and Anthem's Legion of Dawn edition was the most ... oooh, I forget the line. What was it? Most generous offer in gaming? Something like that? Where did they say Legion of Dawn was the most generous offer in gaming? Ben Iriving said it on one of the Livestreams. Of course being the internet one person saying something means the entire company feels that way and people wonder why developers stopped talking to us.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 14, 2020 20:40:20 GMT
Of course being the internet one person saying something means the entire company feels that way I'm memeing.It's a hyperbole. An exaggeration. Of course Ben was trying to hype it up and I am sure there was a lot of Bioware eye rolling internally, because of that comment, but it's out there now. Can't take it back. An unfortunate statement.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 14, 2020 20:41:35 GMT
I wouldn't say TLJ (the best sequel movie) killed the franchise Yes, it did. Evident by how Solo lost money and tRoS had the weakest start out of all Disney Wars. You can say it isn't so, but it is so.
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Post by Sanunes on May 14, 2020 20:50:35 GMT
Of course being the internet one person saying something means the entire company feels that way I'm memeing.It's a hyperbole. An exaggeration. Of course Ben was trying to hype it up and I am sure there was a lot of Bioware eye rolling internally, because of that comment, but it's out there now. Can't take it back. An unfortunate statement. Fair enough. I guess when it comes to criticism of BioWare I have become a little to literal with what people say for my experience they do mean it without being hyperbole.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 4:13:23 GMT
I'm guessing I'm in the minority, but I'd gladly take a remaster, reboot, remake, or any other form of MET content they cared to throw at us. No complaints, no expectations, just give us MET in some shape or form and I'd be happy. MET and ME3 in particular (largely due to ME3mp) are my all-time favorite video games, so its hard to imagine myself not enjoying it, whatever they end up doing. Heck, I even enjoyed Andromeda.
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Post by Sanunes on May 16, 2020 5:03:19 GMT
I'm guessing I'm in the minority, but I'd gladly take a remaster, reboot, remake, or any other form of MET content they cared to throw at us. No complaints, no expectations, just give us MET in some shape or form and I'd be happy. MET and ME3 in particular (largely due to ME3mp) are my all-time favorite video games, so its hard to imagine myself not enjoying it, whatever they end up doing. Heck, I even enjoyed Andromeda. I don't think you are in the minority at all. My guess is a lot of people who might even be against it will buy them.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 16, 2020 11:48:45 GMT
I don't think you are in the minority at all. My guess is a lot of people who might even be against it will buy them. It would require a whole lot more work than a remaster to get me to buy it and I wouldn't trust any studio with a Remake of the MET in 2020. Shit, I'd still rather sail the high seas than give EA money, even if they did a proper remake of the MET. The last time EA got money from me was in 2012, with Kingdoms of Amalur. I have to hand it to EA, they've made a tremendous job at not taking my money. BTW, Kingdoms of Amalur > all of DA franchise.
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