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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on May 28, 2020 22:15:10 GMT
What about If you were not criminal, you were paramilitary (Cerberus).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 29, 2020 1:01:06 GMT
What about If you were not criminal, you were paramilitary (Cerberus). Already brought it up. Apparently being a part of a group labeled a terrorist organization by the galaxy isn't criminal enough.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 29, 2020 15:17:25 GMT
Too bad they didn’t actually establish how they would be defined as terrorists. When Jacob said “ a lot” I was thinking cmon man, dish it I missed out on a lot.
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Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 29, 2020 16:05:46 GMT
So you want Mass Grand Theft Spaceship Effect? I don't think it would work. Not as a fresh start. But we kinda got that in ME2 anyway. Technically what Shepard and his crew spent most of the time doing in the game can be ascribed as criminal activity. Murder. theft, murder, hacking with intent of theft, murder again. Breaking and entering. Murder. You have at least three criminals on your ship, Jack who is a convicted criminal absolutely no denial in that, Kasumi who is a thief, Thane is an assasin. Oh an Garrus was a vigilante, so even if he was on a lawless criminal space station what he did was still basically armed insurgency. Justicar Samara might be following the code but the code as we know is also not really law even in Asari space. Outside asari space Justicars are basically murderous vigilantes that stop at nothing. Zaeed is a merc who has most likely taken jobs that are less than legal more often than not. Taking down that turian frigate I imagine was not a very illegal act. Oh and Miranda and Jacob and the rest of the Cerberus crew are working for a known extremist terrorist organisation. Mordin was a member of STG and we know STG gets their hands dirty. Pretty much the only people who are not criminals on Shepard's crew are Tali, Grunt and Legion. Not at all I don't know why some people are so scared of this concept. It's worked beautifully in shows like Firefly and Farscape and it could give the franchise a completely new perspective, not just for old but for new players as well. I understand disliking it but calling it "Grand Theft Auto in space" is soooper silly. And no, ME2 isn't this. ME2 is Captain Picard getting killed outside of Federation space, being brought back by Section 31 and participating in an attempt to stop an unknown alien race by recruiting a specialized team of romulans, klingons and cardassians. That is not the same as a crew of smugglers or escaped prisoners with nothing but the desire to either fulfill their personal ambitions or simply to try to survive in the madness of space. Have any of you ever watched Farscape ? I know a lot of people here have seen Firefly (and they don't like it, perfectly fine) but I don't see Farscape being mentioned often as the former. It's certainly much closer to a proposal similar to the one I brought up in this topic.
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Post by katamuro on May 29, 2020 16:29:53 GMT
Not at all I don't know why some people are so scared of this concept. It's worked beautifully in shows like Firefly and Farscape and it could give the franchise a completely new perspective, not just for old but for new players as well. I understand disliking it but calling it "Grand Theft Auto in space" is soooper silly. And no, ME2 isn't this. ME2 is Captain Picard getting killed outside of Federation space, being brought back by Section 31 and participating in an attempt to stop an unknown alien race by recruiting a specialized team of romulans, klingons and cardassians. That is not the same as a crew of smugglers or escaped prisoners with nothing but the desire to either fulfill their personal ambitions or simply to try to survive in the madness of space. Have any of you ever watched Farscape ? I know a lot of people here have seen Firefly (and they don't like it, perfectly fine) but I don't see Farscape being mentioned often as the former. It's certainly much closer to a proposal similar to the one I brought up in this topic. Yes I have seen Farscape. And it won't work. It didn't work with Farscape, despite becoming popular later it's not as good as Babylon 5 or Stargate. And Firefly wasn't that successful either. A lot of people like it but it's not because it's about criminals, because the characters sold it. And it was almost totally episodic with every episode being a new adventure. Just like ME2, most of that game was Shepard running around doing things for his crew. Being fair I am not saying it would not work at all. It could. But it also would be an incredible long shot. There is a reason why Rockstar are the only ones doing the whole "criminal" thing. They have their audience, they know what their audience will like and they do it. I only compared it to GTA because that's only game that really does a criminal theme. You can compare it to Assassins Creed if you like but that is not a good comparison either. And I totally disagree with you on the Star Trek comparison. Not all romulans, cardassians and klingons are bad or have done illegal and criminal activities. Jack IS a criminal, no doubt about it. Thane is an assassin. It doesn't matter that he is likeable and he doesn't see himself as actually killing those people because it's his employer that is responsible. He is still a killer. You can't compare them to species that are simply antagonistic to the main characters. What I think is that a criminal theme would not suit Mass Effect 4 or 5 or whatever. It could suit an offshoot, like Mass Effect Andromeda was effectively an offshoot of the main series of games not actually the continuation. So they could make something like Mass Effect Renegade where you play as some kind of Han Solo archetype, assembling a crew of Farscape/Firefly type characters. It would need to be one of two things, a smaller narrative focused game or some kind of clone of GTA.
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 722
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 29, 2020 16:54:44 GMT
Yes I have seen Farscape. And it won't work. It didn't work with Farscape, despite becoming popular later it's not as good as Babylon 5 or Stargate. And Firefly wasn't that successful either. A lot of people like it but it's not because it's about criminals, because the characters sold it. And it was almost totally episodic with every episode being a new adventure. Just like ME2, most of that game was Shepard running around doing things for his crew. What I think is that a criminal theme would not suit Mass Effect 4 or 5 or whatever. It could suit an offshoot, like Mass Effect Andromeda was effectively an offshoot of the main series of games not actually the continuation. So they could make something like Mass Effect Renegade where you play as some kind of Han Solo archetype, assembling a crew of Farscape/Firefly type characters. It would need to be one of two things, a smaller narrative focused game or some kind of clone of GTA. Dude... ...Farscape ran for four years, with an average of 25 episodes per season. Along with a miniseries that tied up the finale.
That is a success that no one here can deny. As for Firefly, there's controversial reasons for why it was cancelled. There's no denying it's influence and just how beloved it is to this day: www.looper.com/10800/real-reason-firefly-got-canceled/. I can understand regardless, wether one likes it or not, but saying it wasn't succesful is again... untrue. It's also an entirely different argument we can have if you'd rather say Babylon 5 or Stargate we're better. I might even agree with you but it's factually false to say these franchises were not succesful. And I wouldn't say Mass Effect: Andromeda is an offshoot. It's a full-fledged triple AAA game that continues the story several years ahead of the last game. I think it's well worth criticizing if it's as flawed as people say but it is a continuation of the main story. The point, overall, is that the proposal is one that Bioware already likes: Morrigan's final part of her story arc in DA:O is taken beat by beat from Aeryn Sun's storyline in season four of Farscape. Several aspects of Liara T'Soni's character are based on Zotoh Zhaan and even Moya's Pilot calls John Crichton "Commander Crichton" at one point, it's ridiculous
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Post by katamuro on May 30, 2020 6:56:58 GMT
Dude... ...Farscape ran for four years, with an average of 25 episodes per season. Along with a miniseries that tied up the finale.
That is a success that no one here can deny. As for Firefly, there's controversial reasons for why it was cancelled. There's no denying it's influence and just how beloved it is to this day: www.looper.com/10800/real-reason-firefly-got-canceled/. I can understand regardless, wether one likes it or not, but saying it wasn't succesful is again... untrue. It's also an entirely different argument we can have if you'd rather say Babylon 5 or Stargate we're better. I might even agree with you but it's factually false to say these franchises were not succesful. And I wouldn't say Mass Effect: Andromeda is an offshoot. It's a full-fledged triple AAA game that continues the story several years ahead of the last game. I think it's well worth criticizing if it's as flawed as people say but it is a continuation of the main story. The point, overall, is that the proposal is one that Bioware already likes: Morrigan's final part of her story arc in DA:O is taken beat by beat from Aeryn Sun's storyline in season four of Farscape. Several aspects of Liara T'Soni's character are based on Zotoh Zhaan and even Moya's Pilot calls John Crichton "Commander Crichton" at one point, it's ridiculous You have to remember the time when it was made. A time when frankly subpar Star Trek Voyager got 7 seasons. Stargate SG-1 was going on for what 11 seasons? And both Farscape and Firefly got their fame and a much larger following later. I didn't even hear about Farscape when it aired. Only a decade later I found it. Yes Firefly became a very influental pop-nerd-culture thing but really the show hinged everything on the characters and the trademark Wheadonesque conversations. The setting with them being criminals was not really that important especially since they are "good" criminals. And obviously there was influence, Mass Effect is basically a melting pot of all kinds of scifi from decades before, you can't point to one show and say "look it's obviously farscape" when Farscape itself took bits from other tv shows and books. Blue/green/whatever skinned hot alien babe is a staple of scifi even before Star Trek. People who made Mass Effect were into scifi and loved it. That clearly shows in Mass Effect 1. As for Andromeda, it is an offshoot simply by the fact that you can't deny it is set in Andromeda galaxy. It leaves the main story before ME3 and then makes it's own story. If it was a continuation of the main story the Arks would have been sent with the goal of escaping Reaper invasion as it was happening and this was the only way to save the species in the galaxy. That is not what happened. Andromeda initiative had been going on for years before the Reaper threat was known even to a limited number of people. The only thing that connects them tenuously is the "last" transmission. Which makes it all the clearer that it's not a continuation, as it was a throwaway thing that didn't matter to anything happening in Andromeda. It was just a thing like Liara's letters that was inserted as a nod towards the main series of games. Not to say Andromeda doesn't deserve to get a second game. Sure let it get made. AFTER a proper Mass Effect 4. Because Andromeda simply does not have the good will to carry the franchise. Even if the second game is good people are now extremely wary of anything Bioware so I doubt they are going to have enough initial sales to satisfy EA overlords if they go for Andromeda 2. However returning to Milky Way and continuing on would draw back enough people, especially if they show it off gradually and making an emphasis that it is a singleplayer game with focus on the story rather than something to justify multiplayer.
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Post by The Hype Himself on May 30, 2020 12:59:50 GMT
Fuck, how about a GTA/Mass Effect hybrid?
Our lovable space rogues go off and do nothing good or redeeming beyond highlight the corruption and double-standards of much of the galactic community, and show the vile and bile of the rank and file of everybody, from the downtrodden homeless to the 'paragons' of society and the Council.
Shit, make it so that by the end of the game, everyone will go back, play the trilogy, and pick Refuse just to see it all burn.
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Post by The Hype Himself on May 30, 2020 13:01:00 GMT
What about If you were not criminal, you were paramilitary (Cerberus). Already brought it up. Apparently being a part of a group labeled a terrorist organization by the galaxy isn't criminal enough. Ur a criminal.
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Post by The Hype Himself on May 30, 2020 13:10:24 GMT
Too bad they didn’t actually establish how they would be defined as terrorists. When Jacob said “ a lot” I was thinking cmon man, dish it I missed out on a lot. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Damn Xeno filth, filthying up humanity master races' breathing room by existing. ME3's Control ending wouldn't let me go far enough making humanity ascendant.
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Post by The Hype Himself on May 30, 2020 13:14:28 GMT
I thought of one reason why they'll never do this: almost everyone in their games likes playing the good guys/gals. Just look at the Paragon vs Renegade numbers. So some may like it, but it would do a lot more harm than good to make the protagonist be criminal scum. Pussies...
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N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 30, 2020 13:28:13 GMT
I thought of one reason why they'll never do this: almost everyone in their games likes playing the good guys/gals. Just look at the Paragon vs Renegade numbers. So some may like it, but it would do a lot more harm than good to make the protagonist be criminal scum.
Very true.
While the OP keeps hyping Farscape the only thing is: other than one character of the original 3 convicts on Moya only one is an actual murderer as far as the other 2 goes one is framed for a murder he didn't commit and the other is a dethroned monarch (who is a lying, greedy, and rotten bastard granted). The hero, John, is an astronaut from Earth blown through a wormhole and Areyn is basically a solider from a fascist government who is convicted of being contaminated by the others and flees with them because John tells her she could be more and she has nowhere else to go. In the whole series all they ever do is a rob a bank (that is used by the villains) and interrupt a peace conference between the various villains to save their friends and enemies. It's not like every episode they're go out killing people, selling and doing drugs, robbing, raping, and blowing up planets for shits and giggles, because they don't.
Even Firefly didn't do that and most of the characters were criminals they were just low rent common thieves and smugglers and who mostly killed the fascist government agents (hell in the movie Mal doesn't even kill the guy who killed directly or indirectly killed 2 members of his crew), the Reavers people who exposed to a drug and went absolutely bat shit crazy and other criminals who tried to screw them.
If BioWare wants to go this route they're best bet is to go with the "Robin Hood" (or The A-Team) in space approach that would much work better.
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Post by katamuro on May 30, 2020 13:49:16 GMT
Very true.
While the OP keeps hyping Farscape the only thing is: other than one character of the original 3 convicts on Moya only one is an actual murderer as far as the other 2 goes one is framed for a murder he didn't commit and the other is a dethroned monarch (who is a lying, greedy, and rotten bastard granted). The hero, John, is an astronaut from Earth blown through a wormhole and Areyn is basically a solider from a fascist government who is convicted of being contaminated by the others and flees with them because John tells her she could be more and she has nowhere else to go. In the whole series all they ever do is a rob a bank (that is used by the villains) and interrupt a peace conference between the various villains to save their friends and enemies. It's not like every episode they're go out killing people, selling and doing drugs, robbing, raping, and blowing up planets for shits and giggles, because they don't.
Even Firefly didn't do that and most of the characters were criminals they were just low rent common thieves and smugglers and who mostly killed the fascist government agents (hell in the movie Mal doesn't even kill the guy who killed directly or indirectly killed 2 members of his crew), the Reavers people who exposed to a drug and went absolutely bat shit crazy and other criminals who tried to screw them.
If BioWare wants to go this route they're best bet is to go with the "Robin Hood" (or The A-Team) in space approach that would much work better.
Exactly. I can serve as an example why such a game wouldn't be for ME fans. I don't like GTA. I played GTA Vice City as a teen but I spent most of the time driving different cars and listening to radio not actually doing the crimes. I tried playing GTA5 but I just didn't have any sympathy for any of the characters really, the only one that I could even stand to play as was the young black guy and the other two characters were insufferable. Even in Skyrim I don't do the missions where I have to be a criminal.
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 30, 2020 14:32:15 GMT
Fuck, how about a GTA/Mass Effect hybrid? Our lovable space rogues go off and do nothing good or redeeming beyond highlight the corruption and double-standards of much of the galactic community, and show the vile and bile of the rank and file of everybody, from the downtrodden homeless to the 'paragons' of society and the Council. Shit, make it so that by the end of the game, everyone will go back, play the trilogy, and pick Refuse just to see it all burn. I feel like I'm talking to walls here, I sincerely do not understand why people keep referencing GTA Just imagine a similar gameplay to Mass Effect 3, or perhaps even Andromeda. Now replace the main characters with criminals and outlaws. Where is the GTA part in that ? It's a matter of concept and storytelling people. I could not possibly be clearer than this.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 30, 2020 14:41:29 GMT
Already brought it up. Apparently being a part of a group labeled a terrorist organization by the galaxy isn't criminal enough. *blows up entire Batarian system* How about now?
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N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 30, 2020 17:17:01 GMT
Very true.
While the OP keeps hyping Farscape the only thing is: other than one character of the original 3 convicts on Moya only one is an actual murderer as far as the other 2 goes one is framed for a murder he didn't commit and the other is a dethroned monarch (who is a lying, greedy, and rotten bastard granted). The hero, John, is an astronaut from Earth blown through a wormhole and Areyn is basically a solider from a fascist government who is convicted of being contaminated by the others and flees with them because John tells her she could be more and she has nowhere else to go. In the whole series all they ever do is a rob a bank (that is used by the villains) and interrupt a peace conference between the various villains to save their friends and enemies. It's not like every episode they're go out killing people, selling and doing drugs, robbing, raping, and blowing up planets for shits and giggles, because they don't.
Even Firefly didn't do that and most of the characters were criminals they were just low rent common thieves and smugglers and who mostly killed the fascist government agents (hell in the movie Mal doesn't even kill the guy who killed directly or indirectly killed 2 members of his crew), the Reavers people who exposed to a drug and went absolutely bat shit crazy and other criminals who tried to screw them.
If BioWare wants to go this route they're best bet is to go with the "Robin Hood" (or The A-Team) in space approach that would much work better.
Exactly. I can serve as an example why such a game wouldn't be for ME fans. I don't like GTA. I played GTA Vice City as a teen but I spent most of the time driving different cars and listening to radio not actually doing the crimes. I tried playing GTA5 but I just didn't have any sympathy for any of the characters really, the only one that I could even stand to play as was the young black guy and the other two characters were insufferable. Even in Skyrim I don't do the missions where I have to be a criminal.
The closest I ever gotten in with "criminal" games was Saints Row: The Third and Saints Row IV. In the third one you do play as a crook but it's so bat-shit crazy and downright bonkers and the villains are just more evil crooks, in part 4 it starts out with Jane Austin narrating asking the question were they just they just violent soicpaths or puckish rouges living a life of whimsy and ends with the Saints "decided more fun and less mercy killing." Yes there is a running joke of the Boss getting upset being called a sociopath instead of a puckish rouge, but that game and the Third aren't trying for a dark super serious crime drama it's a parody of games like GTA and part 4 is a wicked satire of open world action RPGs like Skyrim and the Mass Effect Trilogy along with the Call of Duty and the Metal Gear Solid series, and to paraphrase one of my favorite critics on Saints Row IV said: "It's a satire of the entire 7th generation of games about how they their heads up their own asses. Wanting to show the world that video games were grown up and should taken seriously as an art form without actually having to grow up."
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Post by Phantom on May 30, 2020 17:20:45 GMT
Fuck, how about a GTA/Mass Effect hybrid? Our lovable space rogues go off and do nothing good or redeeming beyond highlight the corruption and double-standards of much of the galactic community, and show the vile and bile of the rank and file of everybody, from the downtrodden homeless to the 'paragons' of society and the Council. Shit, make it so that by the end of the game, everyone will go back, play the trilogy, and pick Refuse just to see it all burn. I feel like I'm talking to walls here, I sincerely do not understand why people keep referencing GTA Just imagine a similar gameplay to Mass Effect 3, or perhaps even Andromeda. Now replace the main characters with criminals and outlaws. Where is the GTA part in that ? It's a matter of concept and storytelling people. I could not possibly be clearer than this. I am all for the Anti Hero/Anti Villain story myself and your ideas are very good. You will not have any problems from me. GTA is a very famous Criminal oriented video game and Saint's row is another.
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N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 722
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 30, 2020 17:25:26 GMT
I am all for the Anti Hero/Anti Villain story myself and your ideas are very good. You will not have any problems from me. GTA is a very famous Criminal oriented video game and Saint's row is another. I think a few folk here have misguided prejudices about how criminals can be used to tell diverse and entertaining stories in videogames. The fact that now they're talking about Saints Row pretty much says it all !
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N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 30, 2020 17:32:37 GMT
I am all for the Anti Hero/Anti Villain story myself and your ideas are very good. You will not have any problems from me. GTA is a very famous Criminal oriented video game and Saint's row is another. I think a few folk here have misguided prejudices about how criminals can be used to tell diverse and entertaining stories in videogames. The fact that now they're talking about Saints Row pretty much says it all !
Because outside of GTA, Saints Row, and The Yakuza series are the only really popular and successful "criminal" video games series with more than 3 games and aren't seen as and/or have moved away from being seen as rip-offs of Scarface and/or The Godfather movies.
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 30, 2020 17:43:09 GMT
Because outside of GTA, Saints Row, and The Yakuza series are the only really popular and successful "criminal" video games series with more than 3 games and aren't or have moved away from being seen as rip-offs of Scarface and/or The Godfather.
I understood you the very first time but that has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. It's not about having a crew and squaddies to rob people, steal stuff, kill other criminals or even commit heists; I know I would be personally down for it but that's not really what I was trying to describe with the proposal The point is about the stories that we can tell from different perspectives in the galaxy: I think we had a fantastic run from a character that is part of a military organization, whereas in Andromeda we play the role of settler and explorer; those are very different roles that one can play in a Sci-Fi environment. Now, as there are military operatives and explorers, there's also scientists, artisans, merchants, salesmen, and countless other roles one could fill in a galaxy worth exploring. The humble proposal here has to do with criminals. Why ? Not because I want to do the same as GTA and Saints Row, but because that specific role allows you to experience a story from a completely different point of view. It's a very different thing (to quote another example) to be a Grey Warden than it is to be a Champion / Viscount or also an Inquisitor. A Grey Warden needs to weigh his sacrifices in the war against the Darkspawn, an Inquisitor doesn't need to do that but still has to mediate between different factions and make judgements concerning enemies from the Fade... Hawke doesn't have to give a fuck about any of that and can just loot the Deep Roads with Varric. See what I mean ? The reason why I liked this perspective, that of a criminal, it's because it goes straight to the moral aspect and the values of the characters involved: why would smugglers, pirates, assassins or mercenaries care about saving the galaxy or doing something for the benefit of others who live in it ? What moves them ? What motivates them ? And there is your game !None of that has to do with GTA or Saints Row
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Post by Phantom on May 30, 2020 18:07:36 GMT
Because outside of GTA, Saints Row, and The Yakuza series are the only really popular and successful "criminal" video games series with more than 3 games and aren't or have moved away from being seen as rip-offs of Scarface and/or The Godfather.
I understood you the very first time but that has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. It's not about having a crew and squaddies to rob people, steal stuff, kill other criminals or even commit heists; I know I would be personally down for it but that's not really what I was trying to describe with the proposal The point is about the stories that we can tell from different perspectives in the galaxy: I think we had a fantastic run from a character that is part of a military organization, whereas in Andromeda we play the role of settler and explorer; those are very different roles that one can play in a Sci-Fi environment. Now, as there are military operatives and explorers, there's also scientists, artisans, merchants, salesmen, and countless other roles one could fill in a galaxy worth exploring. The humble proposal here has to do with criminals. Why ? Not because I want to do the same as GTA and Saints Row, but because that specific role allows you to experience a story from a completely different point of view. It's a very different thing (to quote another example) to be a Grey Warden than it is to be a Champion / Viscount or also an Inquisitor. A Grey Warden needs to weigh his sacrifices in the war against the Darkspawn, an Inquisitor doesn't need to do that but still has to mediate between different factions and make judgements concerning enemies from the Fade... Hawke doesn't have to give a fuck about any of that and can just loot the Deep Roads with Varric. See what I mean ? The reason why I liked this perspective, that of a criminal, it's because it goes straight to the moral aspect and the values of the characters involved: why would smugglers, pirates, assassins or mercenaries care about saving the galaxy or doing something for the benefit of others who live in it ? What moves them ? What motivates them ? And there is your game !None of that has to do with GTA or Saints Row Well Self Interest in saving the galaxy is a simple motivation for any anti villain or criminal.
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 30, 2020 19:49:48 GMT
Yes I have seen Farscape. And it won't work. It didn't work with Farscape, despite becoming popular later it's not as good as Babylon 5 or Stargate. And Firefly wasn't that successful either. A lot of people like it but it's not because it's about criminals, because the characters sold it. And it was almost totally episodic with every episode being a new adventure. Just like ME2, most of that game was Shepard running around doing things for his crew. What I think is that a criminal theme would not suit Mass Effect 4 or 5 or whatever. It could suit an offshoot, like Mass Effect Andromeda was effectively an offshoot of the main series of games not actually the continuation. So they could make something like Mass Effect Renegade where you play as some kind of Han Solo archetype, assembling a crew of Farscape/Firefly type characters. It would need to be one of two things, a smaller narrative focused game or some kind of clone of GTA. Dude... ...Farscape ran for four years, with an average of 25 episodes per season. Along with a miniseries that tied up the finale.
That is a success that no one here can deny. As for Firefly, there's controversial reasons for why it was cancelled. There's no denying it's influence and just how beloved it is to this day: www.looper.com/10800/real-reason-firefly-got-canceled/. I can understand regardless, wether one likes it or not, but saying it wasn't succesful is again... untrue. It's also an entirely different argument we can have if you'd rather say Babylon 5 or Stargate we're better. I might even agree with you but it's factually false to say these franchises were not succesful. And I wouldn't say Mass Effect: Andromeda is an offshoot. It's a full-fledged triple AAA game that continues the story several years ahead of the last game. I think it's well worth criticizing if it's as flawed as people say but it is a continuation of the main story. The point, overall, is that the proposal is one that Bioware already likes: Morrigan's final part of her story arc in DA:O is taken beat by beat from Aeryn Sun's storyline in season four of Farscape. Several aspects of Liara T'Soni's character are based on Zotoh Zhaan and even Moya's Pilot calls John Crichton "Commander Crichton" at one point, it's ridiculous
If you want a remake of Farscape then you should check The Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 1 which is basically a Farscape movie with Marvel's characters. I mean Star-Lord is John Crichton. Gamora is Aeryn. Drax is D'Argo. Groot is Zhaan. Rocket is Rygil. Rowan the Accuser is Scorpius. Yondu is Crais. The Kree are the Peacekeepers. The Skrulls are the Scarens.
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Post by Phantom on May 30, 2020 20:01:36 GMT
Dude... ...Farscape ran for four years, with an average of 25 episodes per season. Along with a miniseries that tied up the finale.
That is a success that no one here can deny. As for Firefly, there's controversial reasons for why it was cancelled. There's no denying it's influence and just how beloved it is to this day: www.looper.com/10800/real-reason-firefly-got-canceled/. I can understand regardless, wether one likes it or not, but saying it wasn't succesful is again... untrue. It's also an entirely different argument we can have if you'd rather say Babylon 5 or Stargate we're better. I might even agree with you but it's factually false to say these franchises were not succesful. And I wouldn't say Mass Effect: Andromeda is an offshoot. It's a full-fledged triple AAA game that continues the story several years ahead of the last game. I think it's well worth criticizing if it's as flawed as people say but it is a continuation of the main story. The point, overall, is that the proposal is one that Bioware already likes: Morrigan's final part of her story arc in DA:O is taken beat by beat from Aeryn Sun's storyline in season four of Farscape. Several aspects of Liara T'Soni's character are based on Zotoh Zhaan and even Moya's Pilot calls John Crichton "Commander Crichton" at one point, it's ridiculous
If you want a remake of Farscape then you should check The Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 1 which is basically a Farscape movie with Marvel's characters. I mean Star-Lord is John Crichton. Gamora is Aeryn. Drax is D'Argo. Groot is Zhaan. Rocket is Rygil. Rowan the Accuser is Scorpius. Yondu is Crais. The Kree are the Peacekeepers. The Skrulls are the Scarens.
Well Guardians of the Galaxy and Farscape has similar tropes. Having similar tropes if done well are always a good thing. For example, if they have a Player Character work for Cerberus, using tropes from Mass Effect 2 would be a starting point then move from there. Side note: I would have the Player Character having a good reason to join Cerberus than forced to join them like Shepard was forced. Also I would have either new factions or obsure lore factions that Cerberus fights against and just explore the dirty underbelly of entire galaxy. Dirty enough where going to Andromeda seems like a sane option.
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Post by katamuro on May 30, 2020 20:12:29 GMT
Because outside of GTA, Saints Row, and The Yakuza series are the only really popular and successful "criminal" video games series with more than 3 games and aren't or have moved away from being seen as rip-offs of Scarface and/or The Godfather.
The reason why I liked this perspective, that of a criminal, it's because it goes straight to the moral aspect and the values of the characters involved: why would smugglers, pirates, assassins or mercenaries care about saving the galaxy or doing something for the benefit of others who live in it ? What moves them ? What motivates them ? And there is your game !None of that has to do with GTA or Saints Row It's part of the game. And If I understand it correctly then you are proposing to rehash ME3 from their point of view? Or are you proposing a new galaxy wide threat where criminals for some reason are the only ones responding properly? In the end if we take the "original" smuggler turned hero Han Solo then he got involved with things beyond his control and eventually decided to side on the side if light. In Firefly it's the constant theme that these on the surface criminals who do engage in some criminal activity are actually good people who do the right thing practically every time they get the chance. And Farscape is the same. It could work if it was a shorter, less than 30h game. A very focused narrative with properly exploring the characters the way you want it to show their motivations. But it won't work as the new setting of the next big game. Unlike Star Wars where we have Han Solo as the prototype there is simply not enough background sentiment to play as a criminal in ME universe.
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Post by Phantom on May 30, 2020 20:18:40 GMT
The reason why I liked this perspective, that of a criminal, it's because it goes straight to the moral aspect and the values of the characters involved: why would smugglers, pirates, assassins or mercenaries care about saving the galaxy or doing something for the benefit of others who live in it ? What moves them ? What motivates them ? And there is your game !None of that has to do with GTA or Saints Row It's part of the game. And If I understand it correctly then you are proposing to rehash ME3 from their point of view? Or are you proposing a new galaxy wide threat where criminals for some reason are the only ones responding properly? In the end if we take the "original" smuggler turned hero Han Solo then he got involved with things beyond his control and eventually decided to side on the side if light. In Firefly it's the constant theme that these on the surface criminals who do engage in some criminal activity are actually good people who do the right thing practically every time they get the chance. And Farscape is the same. It could work if it was a shorter, less than 30h game. A very focused narrative with properly exploring the characters the way you want it to show their motivations. But it won't work as the new setting of the next big game. Unlike Star Wars where we have Han Solo as the prototype there is simply not enough background sentiment to play as a criminal in ME universe. his idea can work with any situation, Post Reaper War, Wild West in Andromeda or Con Current to either. Highwayman's organization can work for anyone for the right price with any objective.
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